Page last modified 10:15, 24 Apr 2011 by wol

*Wol Euler was the guardian for this rather confused session. After reading it over while posting, I'm still not entirely sure what we were talking about. My apologies to Sun and Arch for being distracted and incoherent.*

Wol Euler: good morning, sun

Sunshine Vayandar: hey Woly ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: wow looking mesmerising

Wol Euler: less now :)

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Wol Euler: that was a mix of two outfits, I'm afraid

Sunshine Vayandar: it looked like one outfit

Sunshine Vayandar: ;p

Wol Euler: yeah, went together well :)

Wol Euler: surprising what can work, sometimes :)

Sunshine Vayandar: so so you are in the big apple?

Wol Euler: no

Wol Euler: hence my being here now

Sunshine Vayandar: oh what happened

Wol Euler: I missed my flight, arrived too late and theywouldn't let me check in

Sunshine Vayandar: ohh ;((

Wol Euler: so rescheduled for today

Sunshine Vayandar: ahh kk

Wol Euler: eh, could have been worse. Lufthansa only charged me 100â‚¬ for the change

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm so you are going today then ;)

Wol Euler: yep

Sunshine Vayandar: hmmm not good when one misses the flight

Wol Euler: yeah

Wol Euler: but it happens often enough that there are procedures for dealing with it

Wol Euler: nobody was particularly upset

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: ok so all is fixed ;)

Wol Euler: yes

Sunshine Vayandar: alhamdulillah ;) as they say

Sunshine Vayandar: lol

Wol Euler: do they, now :)

Sunshine Vayandar: hehe lately I got the change to practise arabic

Wol Euler: ah :)

Sunshine Vayandar: ;) I miss it hmm

Wol Euler: when and why did you learn it?

Sunshine Vayandar: I was 19 ...I heard it a few times

Sunshine Vayandar: and was amazed

Sunshine Vayandar: and looked for an intensive course

Sunshine Vayandar: and later I majored in Arabic at university

Sunshine Vayandar: then I went to Tunis - to learn some more also ;)

Wol Euler: cool

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it was long ago ...

Wol Euler: did you use the language professionally?

Wol Euler: or for fun?

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm not really professionally ..

Sunshine Vayandar: never got into translation seriously ...

Sunshine Vayandar: I just wanted to understand arabic cultures more

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: that seems to me a fine reason

Sunshine Vayandar: ;))

Sunshine Vayandar: you know when you can address people in their own language when you travel

Sunshine Vayandar: they are so grateful

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Sunshine Vayandar: and we have a fun time ;)

Wol Euler: yep :)

Sunshine Vayandar: in africa it also works if you can play bob marley songs hehe

Sunshine Vayandar: it's like a language of its own

Sunshine Vayandar: instant friendships ;)

Wol Euler chuckles.

Sunshine Vayandar: hehe

Sunshine Vayandar: which languages you speak?

Wol Euler: fluently, only english and german

Sunshine Vayandar: kk ;)

Wol Euler: I can get by in french and italian, and speak a tiny bit of spanish

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm really ;)

Wol Euler: mmhmm :)

Wol Euler: I learn languages easily

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: largely because I'm very curious and not afraid of making mistakes when learning

Wol Euler: I've discovered that I can get by in places where I don't speak the language, too

Sunshine Vayandar: yes I am like that too - I just like to play with languages ... and don't worry at all about making mistakes

Wol Euler nods.

Sunshine Vayandar: how so?

Wol Euler: dunno :)

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) for example?

Wol Euler: the key is this: if you *want* to communicate,you will

Wol Euler: well, I've been in Portugal but that was so close to Spanish that it almost doesn'T count

Sunshine Vayandar: hehe

Wol Euler: been in Israel without Hebrew, in Japan without Japanese, in Russia without Russian

Sunshine Vayandar: wow you have been around the planet ;)

Wol Euler: okay, I'll admit that you don'T have conversations about higher metaphysical themes in a case like that

Wol Euler: but you can get by

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Wol Euler: I was in buses and taxis and restaurants and bars and museums, and always got by

Sunshine Vayandar: great ;) I wonder how it is in Japan

Wol Euler: wonderful :)

Wol Euler: it's a lovely place, wkth very nice people

Sunshine Vayandar: I saw a film where people from Germany go to Japan

Sunshine Vayandar: and they get lost

Wol Euler: oh?

Wol Euler: yeah, that happens :)

Sunshine Vayandar: I think it was called Enlightenment guranteed

Wol Euler: their numbering of buildings is different to ours

Wol Euler: we think that a building exists along side of a street, and so we number the street-sides

Sunshine Vayandar: Here is the trailer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fXi4lOJe1I

Wol Euler: they think that a building exists within a block that is enclosed by streets

Wol Euler: so they number the blocks

Sunshine Vayandar: number the blocks?

Wol Euler: number houses within the block

Wol Euler: with no reference at all to the streets

Sunshine Vayandar: ah really

Sunshine Vayandar: when these guys arrived in Japan - they went out ...

Sunshine Vayandar: and they tried to remember their way by remembering the big neon signs

Wol Euler watches and grins

Sunshine Vayandar: you know those advertisements

Wol Euler: yep

Sunshine Vayandar: but later in the evening those were switched off

Sunshine Vayandar: so they were not sure where to go

Wol Euler: :)

Sunshine Vayandar: watching the trailer again hehe

Wol Euler: that would be tricky in any case, since many of those billboard-sized signs are computerized and run through a sequence of ads

Wol Euler: so you may see a different ad, or the same one in two places ...

Wol Euler: that looks great, sun, thank you for the tip

Sunshine Vayandar: ;))

Sunshine Vayandar: brb I need to relog

Wol Euler: k

Wol Euler: wb

Sunshine Vayandar: ty I need to join a group and I can't add more groups in Imprudence

Sunshine Vayandar: I think

Wol Euler: did you update to 42 groups?

Wol Euler: in phoenix there was a debug setting that you had tochange by hand ...

Sunshine Vayandar: ah really

Wol Euler: are you only at 25?

Sunshine Vayandar: no I didn't do that

Wol Euler: how many do you have right now?

Sunshine Vayandar: 25

Sunshine Vayandar: one sec I ask him again to send the invite

Wol Euler: wait

Wol Euler: stop

Wol Euler: no point in doing that if you don't have a slot for it

Sunshine Vayandar: ok I stopped ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: how do I fix it?

Wol Euler: I'm reading the imprudence website, looking for that

Sunshine Vayandar: I think it did work before ....

--BELL--

Wol Euler: aha!

Wol Euler: "You can join up to 42 groups, by opening the group info window and clicking Join (if they are open enrollment). However, being invited to a group will not work if you are already in 25 or more groups."

Wol Euler: http://blog.kokuaviewer.org/2011/01/...te-january-21/

Sunshine Vayandar: ah

Wol Euler: so it won't work if it isn't an open group.

Wol Euler: if he MUST invite you, then you are stuck

Wol Euler: but if you can join it by clicking onthe button, that will work

Sunshine Vayandar: ok then I left a group and now I have 24

Wol Euler: that's also a solution :)

Wol Euler: good morning, arch

Sunshine Vayandar: hi Arch ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: yes ok worked ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: I wonder why it is like that

Sunshine Vayandar: ty for looking Wol

Wol Euler: it seems they haven't fixed it generally yet

Archmage Atlantis: Hello Wol, hello Sun

Wol Euler: imprudence supports you *being in* up to 42 groups, but not being invited to join them

Wol Euler: clearly a bug, or perhaps just an oversight

Wol Euler: they seem to be a much smaller or slower team than is making Phoenix

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ok i see

Wol Euler: if the group you dropped was public, you should be able to rejoin it

Sunshine Vayandar: yes it was

Sunshine Vayandar: just a shop

Wol Euler: okay, find it in search and click on "join"

Sunshine Vayandar: ok let me see

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm strange - there isn't a join button

Sunshine Vayandar: I will try at the shop

Wol Euler: ah, then it isn't public in the sense that I meant

Archmage Atlantis: And we wonder at why ppl find it diffficult to be in sl

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm well I will investigate

Wol Euler: yeah :)

Sunshine Vayandar: oh it's no problem ;) hehe I love SL with all the bugs and laaaaags

Wol Euler: sure :) much better than not being here

Archmage Atlantis: No a common response, Sunshine

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm no reason to get upset when SL doesn't work - in my opinion ...

Archmage Atlantis: I wonder why i never hit the t in not

Sunshine Vayandar: Woly will you post the log then?

Sunshine Vayandar: or shall i?

Wol Euler: yes, I can do that since I'm here

Archmage Atlantis: I've only been upset 2x in sl

Sunshine Vayandar: kk if you have time

Wol Euler: I'll have time, just maybe not today

Archmage Atlantis: over multiple years

Sunshine Vayandar: kk ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: and what happened Arch?

Sunshine Vayandar: in those two cases?

Archmage Atlantis: Well, those are private things

Sunshine Vayandar: kk

Sunshine Vayandar: 2 is not so bad

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Wol Euler: okay

*Here's where the trouble begins.*

Archmage Atlantis: I was lucky......I met good people right away

Sunshine Vayandar: I was upset a few times but it was about the people not SL

Archmage Atlantis: Sorry, ppl

Archmage Atlantis: I still tend to spell things out

Wol Euler snorts.

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Wol Euler: txtspk is for idiots

Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV

Wol Euler: hmmm, maybe I should rephrase that, soften it a little

Sunshine Vayandar: lol

Wol Euler: it's counter-productive to use txtspk in places like SL where people are reading and responding in real-time

Sunshine Vayandar: I was not sure what u meant Wol

Wol Euler: it's different when you send an text message to a cellphone, that is not real-time

Wol Euler: the message will arrive with after a delay, and be read at leisure, and replied to later on

--BELL--

Wol Euler: in SL txtspk just causes delays

Archmage Atlantis: Hmmm, I learned Castillean Spanish over 4 years in high school.......but most of the Spanish speakers here speak either Cuban, Mexican or Columbian Spanish (or Brazilian Portugese) so learning Spanish was like learning waste

Wol Euler: I'M surprised, I would have thought that there was a common base?

Archmage Atlantis: Really?

Archmage Atlantis: I have to really concentrate to watch UK TV

Wol Euler: clearly portuguese and spanish are differnet :)

Archmage Atlantis: And NE US Americans and SE US Americans often can't understand each other

Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.

Wol Euler: maybe I'm just good at languages :)

Archmage Atlantis: Or, if they can, they just label the other as "ignorant"

Wol Euler: well, htat's a different matter :)

Archmage Atlantis: Really?

Archmage Atlantis: **To denigrate another sentient being because of their speech patterns is different than not understanding them?**

Wol Euler: um, yes.

*And I would still say "yes" to that question. It is possible to fail to understand somebody without thinking that they must be an idiot (while listening to a lecture by Stephen Hawking, for example). Unfortunately I was being distracted by RL at this point and wasn't read as carefully as I should have done.*

Archmage Atlantis: I would disagree.

Wol Euler: if I meet a Mongolian, say, and *I* cannot speak Mongolian, I do not assume that it's because *he* is an idiot

Wol Euler: but perhaps that's just me

Archmage Atlantis: So, there are no ppl in your world that you see as lesser because they do not speak you native language as you do?

Wol Euler: NO

Archmage Atlantis: Hmmm

Wol Euler: absolutely the contrary

Wol Euler: read again please

Wol Euler: wait, sorry, *I* am reading again :)

Archmage Atlantis: I read it

Wol Euler: yes, that's right. I do NOT see the ability to speak English wiht a particular language as a sign of intelligence or worth

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I live in SA and sometimes it does happen to me that people think something is wrong with me ....because I can't speak Afrikaans for example ...

Wol Euler: there is NO connection in my mind between speaking English and being intelligent

Wol Euler: nor german, nor french, nor japanese ...

Archmage Atlantis: Wol, you are one of the most kind persons I know.......but to deny that we all experience prejudice, and that we all express prejudice to others, is hard for me to accept based on my personal observations

Wol Euler: wait, we are talking past each other again

*Actually, I was *still* reading past him. My bad.*

Wol Euler: prejudice exists, *of course* it does

Archmage Atlantis: waiting

Wol Euler: I would no more say that nobody is prejudiced on grounds of language or accent, than I would say that it never rains anywhere on earth

Wol Euler: some people ARE prejudiced on grounds of language or accent, YES. that exists

Wol Euler: of course it does

--BELL--

Wol Euler: I can see I'm going to have to edit this log to make some sense of my babblings :(

Sunshine Vayandar: Arch I didn't really understand what started this thread ...

Archmage Atlantis: PP did, actually, Sun.......

Sunshine Vayandar: who did?

Sunshine Vayandar: PP?

Wol Euler: "ppl"?

*"Pema Pera", I now assume.*

Archmage Atlantis: No, that is not true

Sunshine Vayandar: ah ok

Archmage Atlantis: My question in the google forum about whether 1 AM sessions where worth continuing started the thread, and my feelings about being alone at my Wed 1 AM session generated that comment in the google group for PaB

Wol Euler: I'm sorry about my comment, Arch, it was intended as a gentle reminder

Sunshine Vayandar: yes I read the thread also

Archmage Atlantis: A reminder is required when someone forgets the guidelines

Archmage Atlantis: And I am deciding if I misread the guidelines

Archmage Atlantis: In all my groups

Archmage Atlantis: And also, who decides the guidelines

Wol Euler: the guideline in this case is that we meet here at regular intervals, I think.

Sunshine Vayandar: I think it was a good point to raise Arch ... but I also agree that it doesn't matter if someone comes or not ....

Wol Euler: we are here as a kind of service, in my opinion, to be available for people who might wish to attend

Wol Euler: sometimes nobody does, and that is fine too

Sunshine Vayandar: at least that is how I feel ... if there is noone coming .... that is ok yes

Wol Euler: my comment was only intended to say that they are not absent because of you personally, arch

Archmage Atlantis: That is what I think also Wol

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I have to go - take care both ;) see u soon

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: That is why I wanted to be a Guardian, to be here when no one else was available to be

Sunshine Vayandar: have a good sunday

Wol Euler: bye sun, take care

Archmage Atlantis: **I never intended to take a commitment to a time**

Archmage Atlantis: I realize this comes across as a personal issue

Archmage Atlantis: sigh

Wol Euler nods

Wol Euler: I wasn't aware of that, arch

Archmage Atlantis: It is long past time for the end of this session

Archmage Atlantis: Ty for your patience

Wol Euler: I'd rather that we continued and came to a conclusion that would help you, arch

Archmage Atlantis: Blessings, Shalom & Namaste

Wol Euler: bye arch

Wol Euler sighs

Wol Euler: man, that was really inconclusive.

Wol Euler: why do people talk around the issue that *really* concerns them?

Wol Euler: if the issue for Arch was that he feels trapped in a commitment to be GoC at a particular session, why talk about the timing of that session?

Wol Euler: we should have been talking about his feelings, not about attendance

Wol Euler sighs

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