2011.04.29 07:00 - Uncertainty, Truth, and View

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

    Arch, Monarchy, Riddle,Bruce,Xirana, druth,Yaku,Fefonz, Bertram,Alfred, Agatha,Satia, and a few others here only briefly.


    Lucinda Lavender: nice to see you all who are leaving...
    Pema Pera: sorry to leave so quickly, Lucinda!
    Bleu Oleander: bye all
    Lucinda Lavender: no problem:)
    Monarchy Republic: tc peeps ..and ty:)
    Darren Islar: leaving too, see you all :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye Darren
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Darren:)
    Lucinda Lavender: nice to see so many here at the Time Session!
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Monarchy......new friend....not seen before\
    Archmage Atlantis: It is the regular session now
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...
    Riddle Sideways: hey, who you calling regular
    Lucinda Lavender: oh oooops:)
    Riddle Sideways: and yes, hi monarch (not met you before either)
    Archmage Atlantis: Bowl movements, if not regular....well......
    Lucinda Lavender: Luci is looking for the notecard for new attendees...having trouble finding it:)
    Riddle Sideways: in the box over here
    Bruce Mowbray: Click on the box behind Xir. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: for a notecard.
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...can I drag it to someone who may not notice?
    Riddle Sideways: take, then drop
    druth Vlodovic: let's have a copy :)
    druth Vlodovic: are you new today luci?
    Xirana Oximoxi: lol
    Monarchy Republic: hi Archmage :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: it happens very oft to me..that I can't find things in inventory or in sl:)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes in a sense...a new Phoenix version of myself and I have trouble navigating a little:)
    Monarchy Republic: we both have Arches ..so we can maybe bridge a few canyons ;)
    Riddle Sideways: beginners mind
    Riddle Sideways: every morning
    druth Vlodovic: you need to make a lot of folders, so instead of not being able to find things you won't be able to find the drawers you put them in
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...
    Monarchy Republic: tks Archmage & ,Bruce :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: ok! I take your advice druth:)
    druth Vlodovic: a version of no-view, beginners mind
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes! clean of prejudices
    Fefonz Quan: (bu all, exit silently)
    Fefonz Quan: by*
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye Fef:)
    druth Vlodovic: bye fef!
    Riddle Sideways: bye fef
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Fefonz
    Archmage Atlantis: Say hey to your babe, fef
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with druth about "Beginner's Mind," but to get really concerned about Beginner's Mind is to lose it (possibly to be 'found' later - when not so worried about it)
    Lucinda Lavender: trying to remember where...
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...and remembers a photo of self from about agge three
    katzikin Resident: um hi
    Lucinda Lavender: Welcom Katzikin:)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, kat!
    Monarchy Republic: hi katzikin :)
    katzikin Resident: hi
    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings katzikin
    druth Vlodovic: so if I achieve no-view does it mean I'll be nervous and uncertain all the time?
    Bruce Mowbray suspects that "no-view" is not so much an "achievement" as a "dropping of all views" - including one's view of no-view.
    Riddle Sideways: probably not Druth, (not have to be stuck in it), but ppl will not ask your opinion much
    Archmage Atlantis: No, because being nervous and uncertain are not element of no-view
    Riddle Sideways: hehehehehe 3 responds
    Archmage Atlantis: Only child, druth?
    druth Vlodovic: youngest :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hi folks n friends :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bert! Hi, Dali!
    Archmage Atlantis: That explains
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Bert:)...
    Riddle Sideways: opps, meant to say "Hey Bert" in an Ernie voice
    druth Vlodovic: it does, a bit
    druth Vlodovic: hi bert
    Bertram Jacobus: loloke :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty all ! :-) ...
    Archmage Atlantis: yes, a small bit
    Xirana Oximoxi: I must go.. take care all and have a nice time!
    Lucinda Lavender: curious about the uncertainness...can you say more druth?
    Archmage Atlantis: Mssr. Bert.....how goes it?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Disha!
    druth Vlodovic: you grow up with everyone around better than you and with greater understanding of what's going on
    Lucinda Lavender: welcome Disha:)
    druth Vlodovic: it takes a long time before you realize that the firstborn had nobody to be behind and so learned early to fake it
    Archmage Atlantis: We don't all fake.....well maybe single born.....2 parents vs 1 child
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...and perhaps the firstborn has that urge to perform...
    Bertram Jacobus: many topics - people coming and going, uncertainness and "how are you" - ty, fine arch (!) :-) - hope, you too (?) :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: I am a second born with 12 years between...feel for both sides
    Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Alfred!
    Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
    druth Vlodovic: a view gives you a framework to understand the world, it gives certainties and interpretations, without it you wander lost through a maze of things you don't easily understand
    Alfred Kelberry: :P
    Archmage Atlantis: Boxy, your dog wishes to be here.......or was that "wuff" misapplied
    Lucinda Lavender: yes but when eventually the views prove changeable and perhaps confining...dropping some is a opening to a new place
    Alfred Kelberry: it just was, archy :)
    Lucinda Lavender: but not sure if it is a place...that would be another view I guess..
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers!
    Alfred Kelberry: aga girl :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi aggers:)
    Agatha Macbeth: Greetings :)
    druth Vlodovic: learning is changing, changing is facing uncetainty, uncertainty can be a source of fearand nervousness (uncertainty :) )
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Aggrs
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: some view can bring so much pain...that learning they are changeable is empowering for me
    druth Vlodovic: "learning" is a multi-faceted word :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i agree : the perspective is so important !
    Archmage Atlantis: Good answer, Luci
    Lucinda Lavender: they seem like moldable plastic to me sort of now:)
    Alfred Kelberry: what is your view on the royal wedding? :)
    druth Vlodovic: "Fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death" because a life of learning is one of change, to allow fear to stop you changing is to stop living
    Bertram Jacobus: my view is that i find it nearly unbelievable that two billion (!) people shall have seen it - is that really possible !? ...
    Alfred Kelberry: druth, well said
    Lucinda Lavender: yes druth
    Archmage Atlantis: Awk
    Lucinda Lavender: I missed it so far:)
    Archmage Atlantis: royal wedding]
    druth Vlodovic: guys, stop molesting the dog! We'll have the SPCCA's on us
    Archmage Atlantis: when druth said something profound
    Alfred Kelberry: berty, collective insanity
    Bertram Jacobus: don´t want to cross the other topic(s) ...
    Archmage Atlantis: Trying not to Borg
    Alfred Kelberry: borg is a nice word
    Lucinda Lavender: when fear is in the body it feels moldable now...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well it´s a collective memory for 2 billion ppl, that has some positive effect, 2 billion ppl can talk about that for the rest of their lives for using smalltalk and not only in britain
    Lucinda Lavender: because trying on not fear becomes more accessable
    Archmage Atlantis: For me, to Borg is to escape oneself in the collective view.
    Riddle Sideways: bye all and thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Rid
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle
    Bertram Jacobus: bye riddle ty2
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Riddle:)
    Bertram Jacobus: some intersting thoughts here today ...
    Monarchy Republic: but as well their total consumption of all life was totally sincere ..because they were deviod of emotion :s
    druth Vlodovic: "fear in the body" "fear is my heart beating fast, fear is my shaking hands, fear is the shiver across my body, fear is not my being, fear is not the molder of my thoughts"
    Monarchy Republic: For Each A Road ,,For Every Man A Religion :)
    Bertram Jacobus: is NOT the molder of your thoughts ?
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...and the adrenalyn.....which I cannot spell...
    Lucinda Lavender: perhaps thought seem an antidote to fear?
    Archmage Atlantis: The flowers outside are nice
    druth Vlodovic: at it's best religion is the indoctrination of the tactics we have devised to face fear and free ourselves from it's ability to shut us down and narrow our view
    Archmage Atlantis: I may be able to grow Azaleas her
    druth Vlodovic: fear prevents thought, makes us automatons, will is not always powerful enough to overcome it so we rely on doctrines
    Archmage Atlantis: The Vireya (tropical rhododendron) are taken down by fungus and insects here.
    druth Vlodovic: to create a doctrine, to create a view molded to our own necessities and chosen moralities can free us to face the world
    Alfred Kelberry: druth, how do we overcome it?
    druth Vlodovic: to believe the doctine as though it is TRUTH is the danger
    Archmage Atlantis: Define
    Archmage Atlantis: truth
    druth Vlodovic: truth is doctrine made unquestionable, in this definition anyway
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    druth Vlodovic: any speaker of english knows that words means what we want them to :)
    Lucinda Lavender: what if truth is about Being energy in the universe...not all the views...
    druth Vlodovic: Being energy in the universe is a view
    Alfred Kelberry: so is truth :)
    druth Vlodovic: truth = view = doctrine if you don't mind a little fuzzy thinking
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe I just mean all the atoms whizzing around...? what about them?
    druth Vlodovic: er, Truth, for full impact it ought to be capitalized
    druth Vlodovic: that's whaty we call "fact"
    druth Vlodovic: of course, for me it is faith that others are telling me the truth about what they have found
    druth Vlodovic: (the bad thing is that when I stop raving I start dribbling, which isn't nearly as much fun)
    Lucinda Lavender: erasing:)
    Lucinda Lavender: was going to ask something about inner and outer
    druth Vlodovic: :) she is so nice to me
    druth Vlodovic: inner and outer truths?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Monarchy Republic: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: but then thought I don't know much about what I want to say there
    druth Vlodovic: if we are the universe then there can be no difference
    Lucinda Lavender: yes the universe in a skin bag
    druth Vlodovic: ??
    Monarchy Republic: every polaroid a negative :)
    Lucinda Lavender: well we have the body which skin is defining the deges of..
    Lucinda Lavender: edges
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi satius:)
    Satia Ruby: hi all
    Monarchy Republic: hi Satia :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello
    druth Vlodovic: hi satia
    Lucinda Lavender: satia:)
    druth Vlodovic: well, you could as easily say we are part of the universe integrated, I don't personally believe that I am the universe, just that it's design/substancebeing is integral to my being
    Lucinda Lavender: we have been talking about truth, uncertainess, satia
    druth Vlodovic: my personal understanding of the universe is a much smaller part
    Lucinda Lavender: I find truth in dreams...tho they are illusory as well
    Lucinda Lavender: I might view them from a place ofinner truth
    Lucinda Lavender: of inner
    druth Vlodovic: consciousness is a small part of our minds, dreams are maybe the rest of it talking to us
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...I do feel that dreams come also from without
    Bertram Jacobus: a friend of mine recently said to me : we can´t doubt doubts ( i understood : that they exist) ... hm
    druth Vlodovic: (sorry,interrupting again, "inner..."?
    Lucinda Lavender: I spelled inner wrong and corrected it
    druth Vlodovic: oh, I was hoping for more of the thought :)
    Lucinda Lavender: having had inexpicable big dreams caused me to see that we know more than just our own personal truth...
    Alfred Kelberry: onigokko
    Monarchy Republic: :))))
    Lucinda Lavender: nice:)
    Lucinda Lavender: I do not seem to have this anymore in Phoenix:(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
    Alfred Kelberry: haha
    Agatha Macbeth: Didn't know you lived in Phoenix :p
    druth Vlodovic: onigokko
    Lucinda Lavender: well this is a new development
    Monarchy Republic: :)
    druth Vlodovic: we have more connections to the universe than we know consciously
    Monarchy Republic: onigokko is the way :)
    Bertram Jacobus: stop
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: agree druth
    druth Vlodovic: we also have much more potential than we can know consciously, it's sort of a limited tool :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yaku doesn't hear
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Alfred Kelberry: yaku is still connected to the universe :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. interesting ... :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: so interesting
    Alfred Kelberry: oh...
    druth Vlodovic: lucky yak
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
    Monarchy Republic: brb peeps ..hugs ..your wonderful :)
    Lucinda Lavender: onigokko
    druth Vlodovic: oops, he was kicked out of the universe
    Lucinda Lavender: stop
    Agatha Macbeth: Yaku seems to have onigokko'd himself into oblivion
    Lucinda Lavender: well I have it but don't do it
    Agatha Macbeth: That's what they all say
    Lucinda Lavender: onigokko
    Lucinda Lavender: sorrystop:)
    Lucinda Lavender: sorry stop
    Agatha Macbeth: :DDDDDDDDDDDDDD
    Lucinda Lavender: sorry stop
    druth Vlodovic: onigokko doesn't know politeness, only fun
    Lucinda Lavender: onigokko
    Lucinda Lavender: ok:)
    Lucinda Lavender: stop
    Lucinda Lavender: phew!
    Lucinda Lavender: thank you druth:)
    Agatha Macbeth: Somewhat energetic
    Bertram Jacobus: boxy disappeared ! :-(
    Lucinda Lavender: hmm
    Agatha Macbeth: Gone for more bones no doubt
    Lucinda Lavender: I have my tail back
    druth Vlodovic: hehe, we must be willing to let go of everything, even the uncertainty of how others will treat us, to be joyous
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!
    Lucinda Lavender: finding it with in...
    Agatha Macbeth: Thanks for the excercise folks, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: [bye aggers] ...
    Lucinda Lavender: see you aggers:)
    druth Vlodovic: bye aga
    Lucinda Lavender: time for me to move a bit...
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - bye lucinda !
    Lucinda Lavender: have a great day everyone:)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for the talk ! :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: and thank you!
    druth Vlodovic: have fun luci
    Lucinda Lavender: another day of vacation with different kinds of work:)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol huhu sun :-)
    Sunshine Vayandar: huhuuuu
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi again - hi Satia ;)
    Lucinda Lavender: HI sun:)
    druth Vlodovic: all different types of work is a vacation for other things you could be doing :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: and Luci, Arch, Druth
    Lucinda Lavender: off I go...
    druth Vlodovic: hi sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Luci
    Sunshine Vayandar: I came to check on the prim workshop
    druth Vlodovic: how is it going?
    Sunshine Vayandar: going well how are you all
    Bertram Jacobus: all fine here only a bit headache, but we have pills, a blessing ! ;-)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Dali
    Dali Waverider: Hi un
    Dali Waverider: Sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) I hope the headache is gone soon
    Sunshine Vayandar: Dali have u been here before?
    druth Vlodovic: ah, it is truly PaB, attended only by no-self
    Dali Waverider: Maybe not for play as being. Many time to Kira for various seminars
    Sunshine Vayandar: ah ok Dali ;)
    druth Vlodovic: is there one today?
    Sunshine Vayandar: ok then I go over to the prim workshop place
    Sunshine Vayandar: take care all - enjoy the weekend
    Dali Waverider: Byes.
    druth Vlodovic: bye dali
    druth Vlodovic: I'm off, have fun all :)

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