2011.04.29 13:00 - wedding,shuttlestart, environment and change

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you doing
    Qt Core: hi Yaku, i'm quite good, you ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pretty well, yes :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you follow the events around the endevour ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or the wedding today :)
    Qt Core: had to endure a little chat about the wedding at lunch as some female colleagues started talking about Kate's dress
    Yakuzza Lethecus smiles
    Qt Core: no one interested in the astronauts' one ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well it´s the last shuttle start, but it´s sunday know when i heard it right
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sam
    oO0Oo Resident: hiya Qt, Hiya Yaku
    Qt Core: haven't checked the dates but yes, it's the ast
    Qt Core: hi oOOOo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch
    oO0Oo Resident: Arch .. gtsy
    Qt Core: while they are old i don't know if it is a wise move to not already have a replacement, on the other hand it show that/how Nasa trust to be able to cooperate with europe and russia for its need
    Qt Core: hi Arch
    oO0Oo Resident: is that more a trust in a scientific peer realm, over a political one Qt?
    Qt Core: the second one, maybe i'm naive but i think that the forst one is well established
    oO0Oo Resident: ty
    Qt Core: *first
    Archmage Atlantis: Top of my morning to ya, folks
    oO0Oo Resident: :) Arch
    oO0Oo Resident: and to you mate
    Archmage Atlantis: *g*
    Qt Core: Hi Zon
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zon :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zon
    Zon Kwan: helo helo helo
    Archmage Atlantis: oyyeaw Zon
    Archmage Atlantis: One of the reasons I study religion and goventmentlal bureaucray is to under stnd wno we have geeand who we are
    Archmage Atlantis: Ant persaps we will be
    Archmage Atlantis: I certainly can't b to improfe m wping'
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i often wonder about our governmental system and the distribution of ressources
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even when the subject of the last flight of the space shuttle came up before i had a mental link with lybia where all these hightech weapons are shown to the world
    Yakuzza Lethecus: from drone´s to the french and european fighter projects
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how do we use ressources in our society
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, never very pabish
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i always hope someone brings something more pabish :P
    oO0Oo Resident smiles.. what might be more Pabish Yaku.. that would help me..
    oO0Oo Resident: i mean to say.. if you can describe what you mean by 'more PaBish?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, clearing the mind a little bit to become a metaperspective of the own thoughts, well that´s one way how i try to put it in words
    Yakuzza Lethecus: to see the own thoughts appearing and to learn to communicate those
    Archmage Atlantis: Good men do what they do to protect, bad men do what they do for pleasure.......and the sexist term men is intended.......still men learn what to do from their mothers, imo
    oO0Oo Resident: interesting Arch.. motivations.. causes.. influences. And ty Yaku
    oO0Oo Resident: @ Yaku.. helpful.. if i may rephrase for clarity, and to check.. one clears (intentionally) in a way, and allows for a 'metaperspective' possibility, that can in turn give voice to 'own thoughts'? then I wonder.. what kinds of phenomena or thoughts perhaps, might be NOT be 'own thoughts'? In other words, what is cleared away?
    oO0Oo Resident: *might not be own thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is there something as own thoughts i wonder very often ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i used to think that we are constantly influenced by our environment, i think in words still those words are given in a more or less elaborated code according to the social environent
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree, we are products of our environment
    Archmage Atlantis: Yet
    Zon Kwan: nods..where do thoughts arise from
    Zon Kwan: do i make thme arise
    Archmage Atlantis: We have the ability to transcend how we were created
    Zon Kwan: or do they just foalt araund me for me to pick them up
    Archmage Atlantis: It is what makes us human, imo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well that´s what makes the nature nurture debate so interesting
    Archmage Atlantis: Those who are unable to transcend, dictatee, rule and demand
    oO0Oo Resident: what would transcendence be like, or look like Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: A bit like PaB I think
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: pabish?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well anything about our thoughts and perceptions is pabish from my point of view
    Archmage Atlantis: perhaps, I am certain I have said enough on the subject
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and pab itself got a lot of ppl who link these explorations with older traditions
    Archmage Atlantis: I want to walk outside and see the garden and the insects
    Archmage Atlantis: Blessings and Namaste to you all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: buddism and other religious or less religious concepts who used to explore our mind and feelings in other historical traditions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye arch *for the log*
    Zon Kwan: bye Arch
    oO0Oo Resident: also for the log: bye Arch, and ty
    oO0Oo Resident: nature vs nurture.. from whence do thoughts come? who/what percieves thoughts? are the thoughts owned, personal or impersonal in nature?
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Dash
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey dash
    Qt Core: hi Dash
    Dash Earthboy: hey y'all :)
    Zon Kwan: dash
    Yakuzza Lethecus: one of the elements is also in how far do we need verbal language to nurture our own thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: one might have a good ,,thought" but not the communicative means or the environment to elaborate or gain criticism on oneself
    Zon Kwan: i think we have a need to express our thoughts somehow
    Zon Kwan: words, painting, music, dance
    Zon Kwan: to make it physical
    Dash Earthboy: i used a similar explanation in a philosophical debate about the existence of God
    Dash Earthboy: i found agreement from atheists that one could have an experience (with God) without vocabulary to sufficiently communicate the experience to listeners
    Dash Earthboy: this was several decades ago
    Yakuzza Lethecus: an example of what i mean can be ,,cognitive dissonance" we all know how hard to stop a habit can be i guess but like googling on ,,how to stop smoking" etc. might bring a lot of unprecise things, while being able to google for ,,cognitive dissonance" brings up a hole new layer to gain more precision on ,,which dissonance" and to find more precise information
    Dash Earthboy: i agree Zon that it's important to me to share (make manifest) my thoughts/feelings
    Dash Earthboy: i saw a good piece on google searches about how some info farms are capitalizing on such searches
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but to use simple words and commen sense can also be a bad thing, like palin on wasting money on the research of fruit fly´s
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Dash Earthboy: i wish there was a good definition of "common sense"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: someone mentioned that at a science circle event
    Dash Earthboy: not sure that something needs to be a habit to be "bad" or in need of remedial action ;)
    Qt Core: have to go, bye all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
    Dash Earthboy: bye Qt
    Dash Earthboy: be well
    oO0Oo Resident: bye Qt
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, then there was also a ted talk on how we lack ,,common sense"
    Dash Earthboy: it was nice to have a conversation that didn't include "royalty" today ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ha!
    oO0Oo Resident: agree that 'expression' is somehow important.. but wonder about how necessary, or important it is to share 'thoughts', as so much of communication is happening non-verbally. do we desire to share 'thoughts' in proportion with how imporatant we have made linguistic means of knowing?. It seems all of what we think/say/do is a kind of expression and also our environment is expressing all the time too. And then where do 'i' and environment begin and end?
    Zon Kwan: ah the princess is lovely
    Dash Earthboy: let's keep it "common"
    Dash Earthboy: for us commoners
    Dash Earthboy: ;)
    Dash Earthboy: if one is part of the environment, the ideas of "begin" and "end" are not quite applicable
    oO0Oo Resident: common, could perhaps be that we all wish to be happy and not suffer? even persons who 'have' royalty?
    Zon Kwan: i think we have a need to communicate..to connect on thinking and feeling level
    oO0Oo Resident: ty, yes Dash.. so we take a reference of different kinds
    oO0Oo Resident: are there other levels Zon?
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Dash Earthboy: my happiness is more aligned with "peace" than "lack of suffering" alone
    Zon Kwan: but we were discussing on thougth level
    Yakuzza Lethecus: especially emotions are a tricky thing to communicate i guess
    Dash Earthboy: i believe some verbalization can interfere with genuine sharing of thoughts
    Zon Kwan: we do it all the time
    Zon Kwan: whe i sit on a bus i feel the feelings of ppl around me
    Dash Earthboy: cool!
    Zon Kwan: its mostly subconscious
    Zon Kwan: but we all do it
    Dash Earthboy: sometimes the feelings of others are not so tangible
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well this form of empathy is then also used by ur own experience when you are able to relate to their sitiation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so we apply some unconcious hermeneutics there
    Dash Earthboy: yah
    Zon Kwan: no..but sometimes whe one enters a room wher eppl have quarreles..one can feel it in teh atmosphere
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, when i enter a room and the ppl ain´t greeting me i often wonder if i just created a self fulfilling prophecy because i might have been scared and didn´t come in in a relaxed and smiling way in which ppl appreaciate newcomers more
    Dash Earthboy: since i arrived i've been having the experience of being a hazy mist/fog in the presence of well-formed images
    oO0Oo Resident: agree.. there are such experiences.. some more gross, and some more subtle. Then it can be tricky to distinguish where the feelings come from... we project also our assumptions, our biases, and our own states of mind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: as when i come in and am uncertain and stuckly eyballing everyone :P
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: if we r angry..we project it to others
    Zon Kwan: if we r empty..we can feel others
    Dash Earthboy: you see me as "normal" and i am having less-than-normal experience
    oO0Oo Resident: there seems to me to be a lot of 'estimating' and guessing going n, that is part of being human... a sense of refining 'meanings' and understandings... all the time
    oO0Oo Resident: *on
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Dash Earthboy: that kind of "estimating" and guessing is very common in our reading
    Dash Earthboy: hey eliza
    Zon Kwan: eöiza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :) I'm actually just passing through right now, but it is good to see you...
    Dash Earthboy: you too ;)
    oO0Oo Resident: hey hi Eliza.. nice to see you passing
    Dash Earthboy: i think such guessing and estimating goes on at a biological/molecular level too
    oO0Oo Resident: yes, it feels like a way, a style in which 'life' seeks to continue
    Dash Earthboy: jazz
    oO0Oo Resident: sort of open ended to ensure the adaptability of unknown circumstances
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: to further life itself
    Dash Earthboy: or else go the way of the dinosaur
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol i better don´t say it´s ,,idiosyncratic"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: haha
    Dash Earthboy: ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i noticed that i am generally not very precise in the way i am thinking and writing, having terms partially helps me to train gaining more focus
    Yakuzza Lethecus: while some ppl whom are good in terms don´t have a problem of using simpler words while not loosing focus at all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a bit weired, since using terms not well percieved often even worse if you use em imprecise
    Dash Earthboy: in forums like this KISS is a mantra
    oO0Oo Resident: there is a magic to clear explaining, that seems to come from what? Knowing the subject, the terms, and also the possble ways others may come to these?
    oO0Oo Resident: *possible
    Dash Earthboy: certainly
    Dash Earthboy: when one programs computers in several prg languages, one needs to keep the expected users in mind
    oO0Oo Resident: and languages, like life.. tend to stretch beyond rules.. for their continuance also
    oO0Oo Resident: mhmm Dash
    Dash Earthboy: yes, C evolves into C++
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: becoming famliar with energies, feelings, perceptions, emotions, and concepts... a big journey to be able to share with others
    Dash Earthboy: but i've noticed conversational languages may pick up idiomatic expressions that interfere with understanding as they violate certain rules/definitions
    oO0Oo Resident: lost and found in translation
    oO0Oo Resident: functioning in other ways Dash? but unhelpful in a way?
    oO0Oo Resident: we assume different set of rules?
    Dash Earthboy: yes, usually the terms are used to keep others out and exclude them from the conversation
    oO0Oo Resident: assembley languages? ;)
    Dash Earthboy: hehe
    Zon Kwan: gtg, bye
    Dash Earthboy: naw, that's like Latin
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye zon
    Dash Earthboy: bye Zon
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i also should go to bed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: was interesting tonight
    Dash Earthboy: yeah I best be off too
    oO0Oo Resident: bye Zon.. sadly me too tc all :)
    Dash Earthboy: gtcu

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