2011.05.13 01:00 - Purpose

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.


    Wol Euler: hello sam!
    Wol Euler: nice avatar
    oO0Oo Resident: hiya Wol :)
    oO0Oo Resident: like your outfit
    Wol Euler: thank you ;) brand new, I just discovered this store
    Wol Euler: it comes in opaque and sheer versions :)
    Wol Euler: I thought the opaque more appropriate to the dignity of PaB
    Wol Euler: hello rhi
    oO0Oo Resident: hiya Rhi .. gtsy
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Wol; hi Samud
    Wol Euler: how is everyone today?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm good, how about you, Wol? Samud?
    oO0Oo Resident: good :)
    Wol Euler: I'm well, hoping for a day off today (in exchange for a half Sunday)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: What do you think are your odds of getting it?
    Wol Euler: better than even!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Egg!
    Wol Euler: because I wouldn't be at work before noon and the boss will be leaving at 2pm
    Wol Euler: hello egg
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi rhia, hi wol
    oO0Oo Resident: hi eggsalad
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi sam
    Wol Euler: if the mountain won't come to Mohammad ...
    Wol Euler: how are you, egg?
    eggsalad Ormstein: well, wol. and you?
    Wol Euler: quite well thanks
    eggsalad Ormstein: wos macht du?
    Wol Euler: we haven't seen either of you here for a while
    eggsalad Ormstein: i keep losing track of the time :(
    Wol Euler: aaah
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, and I keep getting busy in RL
    Wol Euler: things on your mind?
    eggsalad Ormstein: yes, big things
    Wol Euler: care to talk about it?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: What sort of things, egg?
    eggsalad Ormstein: major life issues, like purpose
    Wol Euler listens.
    eggsalad Ormstein: I can't find one
    eggsalad Ormstein: not much else to say about it
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: how long have you felt this ... lack of purpose?
    eggsalad Ormstein: sorry it's not a very interesting topic
    Wol Euler: oh but it is.
    eggsalad Ormstein: oh, it comes and goes
    Wol Euler: (next topic: why do people apologise for talking about their own fears and feelings?)
    eggsalad Ormstein: well, what I meant was, I don't have much to say, because the question is unresolved
    Wol Euler: do you have a feeling of what kind of purpose it should be?
    eggsalad Ormstein: nope, I'm completely lost


    Rhiannon Dragoone: Samud, I think I've seen you buzzing around my pond
    Wol Euler: hello obs
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi obs!
    oO0Oo Resident: in the absolute.. mmm ..expect so Rhi
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Observerm :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Where is he? I saw him on my radar, but not visually
    Wol Euler muses. There are all kinds of purposes, I guess. Devoting one's life to saving abandoned pets, for example
    Wol Euler: due west of us, he hides in the bushes :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, way over there
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, he is kind of hiding
    eggsalad Ormstein: yes, but I can't get any motivation to do anything such as that
    Wol Euler: well that makes it difficult, I guess, it would have to be something that grabs you
    eggsalad Ormstein: right, and nothing appeals to me
    Wol Euler: something that is significant to you (if nobody else)
    Wol Euler: is this a new feeling? I don't recall you speaking about it before
    eggsalad Ormstein: it's been worse lately, but it's always there
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: perhaps the strength of that feeling at this particular moment is "just" a biorhythm effect?
    eggsalad Ormstein: idk why it comes and goes, never gave that much thought
    Wol Euler: (I'm not saying you don't need a purpose, but that your strength of feeling about it might be biorhythm based)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I need to log
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Hope you work it out, egg
    Wol Euler: bye rhi, take care
    eggsalad Ormstein: bye rhia and thanks
    Rhiannon Dragoone: You too, Wol
    Bertram Jacobus: hey friends n folks ! :-)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi and bye Bertam
    eggsalad Ormstein: hi bert.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: bye Samud
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Bertram .. gtsy
    oO0Oo Resident: bye Rhi
    Bertram Jacobus: ty - same same :-)
    Wol Euler: I notice in myself the effect of biorhythms on my emotional state: I can go from despair and panic to calm without any particular change in external circumstances, over a quite long timescale
    Wol Euler: hello bert, nice to see you again
    Bertram Jacobus: again : tyty :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: to drop emotions is not so easy ...
    Wol Euler: indeed
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    eggsalad Ormstein: I don't even remember how they work
    Bertram Jacobus: you mean, you don´t experience / have some egg ?
    oO0Oo Resident: you sound depressed egg
    eggsalad Ormstein: no, I remember studying biorhythms as a kid, but I've forgotten it all
    eggsalad Ormstein: well, yes, sam
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ! :-)
    Wol Euler gives your hand a squeeze
    Bertram Jacobus: hmmm ...
    oO0Oo Resident: I'm sorry for any discomfort you are going through egg.. glad you made it here too.. to be here
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Bertram Jacobus: me too
    Wol Euler: I find sitting alone much worse than sitting with friends, even if I don't say much then


    Wol Euler: when alone in such a state, my thoughts go into a "death spiral"
    Bertram Jacobus: hmmm - i was here yesterday or the day before yesterday and i found it nice as well - but i have friends at other places - so i never feel "totally alone" ...
    Bertram Jacobus: oops - sry
    eggsalad Ormstein: well, I'm so accustomed to it, it's really no longer a major issue
    Wol Euler: no reason not to address it :)
    Bertram Jacobus: "death spiral" ? what does that mean pls wol ? if i may ask ... (?) -
    eggsalad Ormstein: but every time I revisit it, I get the same (non) answer
    Wol Euler: that my thoughts circle around the same issue, getting tighter and faster on my inadequacy or the failure of whatever I'm obsessing about
    Wol Euler: until there is no room for any other idea, nor for a solution or a way out
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. i see. sry to read that, all that ...
    Bertram Jacobus: so much suffering in the universe ! ...
    Wol Euler: which is one of the ways that depression sustains itself: it prevents you from seeing anything but the problem
    Wol Euler: talking helps, in my experience
    Wol Euler: if you have somebody you can trust to listen, and to respond without bias or judgement
    Bertram Jacobus: ok ...
    Wol Euler: it helps enormously just to have them say that htere is a second side to it
    oO0Oo Resident:

    when shadows are gathering when memory dementors are raging I drop there, at the fountain there is always someone there to greet me always someone to make me laugh always some giggling or smiling or listening weaving stories in poetic voices someone showing up as a whirling dervish or making the snow fall on us with a kind heart and generous advice

    from The PaB Neighborhood Cafe by Eden Haiku [fair use]


    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: thanks, sam
    Wol Euler: this is why therapy works: not because the therapist is a genius, but just because they are not you :)
    Wol Euler: your problem doesn'T have the same emotional weight fo them as it does for you
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. yes. no. :-)
    eggsalad Ormstein: mine doesn't really carry emotional weight
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    eggsalad Ormstein: there are only two possible solutions
    Wol Euler listens.
    eggsalad Ormstein: find a cause, or cease living
    Wol Euler: O.O
    eggsalad Ormstein: so I just put off the decision indefinitely
    Wol Euler: I find the second option rather drastic ...
    oO0Oo Resident: i find that the 'baby giggle' is a third alternative for me.. when i feel this way
    eggsalad Ormstein: oh, I didn't mean suicide, that's unacceptable
    Wol Euler: good
    eggsalad Ormstein: you can exist without living
    Wol Euler: ah, yes, I follow you now
    Wol Euler: become a robot, you mean
    eggsalad Ormstein: right
    Wol Euler: on the whole I'd still think the first option better ... but that's just my opinion
    Wol Euler: what have you tried as possible purposes?
    eggsalad Ormstein: helping people, making them smile
    Bertram Jacobus: nice
    Wol Euler: but that wasn't enough?
    eggsalad Ormstein: it wasn't very rewarding
    Wol Euler: what does "rewarding" mean?
    Bertram Jacobus: but we are taught not to make a difference between us and others : so let´s make ourselves smile as well (!) ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: were you expecting parades with elephants, and only got a few butterflies?
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: (I don't know why that image came up, I hate parades, think them a total waste of time)
    Bertram Jacobus: ··..•♥•··..☺ SaTiA ☺ ..··•♥•..··
    Bertram Jacobus: says she likes butterflies more then elephants ;o)
    Wol Euler: well yes :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but the picture you gave were very nice she says also :-)
    eggsalad Ormstein: well, it felt shallow and selfish, instead of good
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    oO0Oo Resident waves to Satia :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: because I was only doing it to make ME feel better
    Wol Euler: aaaaah
    Bertram Jacobus: ··..•♥•··..☺ SaTiA ☺ ..··•♥•..··
    Bertram Jacobus: rewinks :-)
    Wol Euler: yeah, most sages agree that that doesn't work :)
    Bertram Jacobus: rewaves sry - that before was germanglish :o)
    Wol Euler: that satisfaction and fulfilment are usually found as byproducts of something entirely different


    oO0Oo Resident: mangle the germanglish
    Bertram Jacobus: but helping always is better then hurting (!) -
    Bertram Jacobus: oops - sry - again ! :o)
    oO0Oo Resident: saw this quote today
    oO0Oo Resident: “In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of what has passed and the first of that which comes; so with present time.” ~Leonardo da Vinci
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: we talk about that often here, Egg, whether actions can ever be truly altruistic
    Wol Euler: or whether our joy or pride or happiness in doing them perhaps lessens their value
    Bertram Jacobus: i repeat : helping always is better then hurting
    Wol Euler: agreed!
    eggsalad Ormstein: what about doing neither?
    Bertram Jacobus: not possible
    Wol Euler: I infer that you are trying that, and that it isn't working -- since you still hurt?
    eggsalad Ormstein: mostly that was over yesterday
    eggsalad Ormstein: I talk to some sad people on SL, and it seems to cheer them up
    Wol Euler smiles.
    eggsalad Ormstein: some people find me pleasant to chat with
    Wol Euler: that's a good and worthy thing, I would say
    eggsalad Ormstein: so it fixes the problem for a while
    Wol Euler: and consider this: if they experience a cheering-up, a bettering -- then what does your motivation matter?
    eggsalad Ormstein: right, but SL is on my terms
    Wol Euler: you did help, focus on that
    Wol Euler: and you want to be able to extend that outside of SL?
    eggsalad Ormstein: no, I can be my selfish self in SL
    Wol Euler frowns. I'm confused, can you expand on that a little?
    eggsalad Ormstein: if I don;t want to help, I can just logoff
    Wol Euler: ah, I see
    Wol Euler: logging out of RL is harder
    Wol Euler: but there are ways to do that too: TV, alcohol, sex-tourism ...
    eggsalad Ormstein: and I don't do any of those :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but with all that you´re still in life
    Wol Euler grins.
    eggsalad Ormstein: have you heard of isolation chambers?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    eggsalad Ormstein: with the salty water that you float in?
    oO0Oo Resident: sensory deprevation tanks?
    eggsalad Ormstein: yes, that's the word! thanks, it wouldn't come to me
    eggsalad Ormstein: er, phrase
    Wol Euler: sounds like a mini-hell to me frankly, but that's my problem
    Wol Euler: I have trouble enough going into some deep subway stations :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: and to me, it sounds like a fantastic escape
    Wol Euler: ha :)
    Wol Euler: have you tried it?
    Wol Euler: perhaps you should.
    eggsalad Ormstein: yes, I wanted to look into building one
    oO0Oo Resident: you may be able to buy a KIT
    Wol Euler: wouldn't it be better to try one out first? :)
    Wol Euler: take a week and go on a retreat to some place with one
    eggsalad Ormstein: either way, I couldn't find one until Bert just gave me the right words!!
    Wol Euler: true :))


    Bertram Jacobus: i like those tanks
    Wol Euler: tell us about them?
    eggsalad Ormstein: you have one?
    Bertram Jacobus: find them enourmous relaxin
    Bertram Jacobus: no - i twice was at places where you can be in it
    eggsalad Ormstein: I should google to see if there is such a place local to me
    Wol Euler: yeah :)
    Wol Euler: it would really surprise me if there weren't, Egg.
    Wol Euler: so many people pass through Vegas, for so many reasons ...
    eggsalad Ormstein: yes, already found one at a yoga place :)
    Wol Euler: ha! Book yourself in!
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: and come back and tell us all
    eggsalad Ormstein: humph, they are closed
    Wol Euler: :(
    Bertram Jacobus: sadly it´s not cheap ... mostly ...
    Bertram Jacobus: but i agree : you´re in las vegas ? there should be something like that ...
    eggsalad Ormstein: striking out thus far
    Wol Euler: I'm really surprised
    Wol Euler: I'd have expected every major hotel to offer that as part of its "wellness" package
    Wol Euler: the things one learns about one's expectations :)
    Bertram Jacobus: "floating tank" may be a good search term ...
    eggsalad Ormstein: so far, no luck
    Bertram Jacobus: hmmm ...
    Wol Euler: huh
    eggsalad Ormstein: no, all links point to that yoga place, that is now closed :(
    oO0Oo Resident: Sadly.. I must fly... but happily, I was with you all. :)
    Wol Euler: bye sam, fly well
    Wol Euler: take care
    eggsalad Ormstein: bye sam
    oO0Oo Resident: best wishes.. and may everyone be happy and have the seeds of happiness
    Bertram Jacobus: bye sam ...
    oO0Oo Resident: when that is possible
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s a nice wish and thought ...
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - so i´ll leave too now ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for the talk and the community !
    eggsalad Ormstein: bye bert, thanks for the help
    Wol Euler: bye bert, take care, and hugs to satia
    Bertram Jacobus: ty ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ··..•♥•··..☺ SaTiA ☺ ..··•♥•..··
    Bertram Jacobus: says : hugs back :-)


    Wol Euler: :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: it's a great outfit, wol
    Wol Euler: thank you :) it's new, i just discovered the store
    Wol Euler: there's an opaque version too :)
    eggsalad Ormstein: sort of see-through, but not
    eggsalad Ormstein: do you have a lm for that store?
    Wol Euler: sure, just a mo
    eggsalad Ormstein: thanks!
    Wol Euler: yw
    eggsalad Ormstein: if you don't mind, I'll be off now to check it out
    eggsalad Ormstein: always good to see you
    eggsalad Ormstein: be well
    Wol Euler: take care, egg
    Wol Euler: I hope you find a purpose, or at least peace of mind without it

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