2011.05.20 06:00 - Time Session - Am I Awareness?

    The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.




    stevenaia Michinaga: makes no sence that a different internet connection (supposidly faster) would cause somehow change how I appear in SL.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: pema, do you all of Yak?
    Pema Pera: ??
    Pema Pera: do I what?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut see his collar, tie and pants
    Pema Pera: I guess he is partly invisible :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Yaku
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh ok, (thought it was me)
    Pema Pera: hi Darren!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i thought that you´ve worn the invisible avar
    Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i did it too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey darren
    Pema Pera: a cloaking device?
    Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, you can just wear it but doens´t hide everything as it seems, at least not under all circumstance
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu :)
    Darren Islar: hi Bleu
    Darren Islar: is something wrong with my viewer?
    Pema Pera: hi Xirana!
    Darren Islar: hi Xirana
    Pema Pera: I think Yaku is playing games, Darren :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: what a perfect example of individual perpective, no it's us, I think
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi to all! nice to see you:)
    Darren Islar: hehehe Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you see more than my hair?
    Bleu Oleander: no
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nope, only your hair
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: nice to see your hair Steve :))
    Pema Pera: a good hair day!
    Darren Islar: I only see you're hair Steve, you're using the invisable av?
    Xirana Oximoxi: you may be in 'invisible mode
    Darren Islar: hehe Peman
    Darren Islar: hi Eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you don´t wear this ,,invisible avatar" alpha mask right ?
    Pema Pera: easy way to go to a barber -- no distractions
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, my office internet connection does this
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone, apologies for being late
    Pema Pera: hi ELiza!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you could try to rebake
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Eliza:)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: tried that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi eliza
    Darren Islar: well, then we need to do it with your hair :)
    Pema Pera imagines rebaking hair . . .
    Darren Islar: eeew
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: you look very cute like that when wearing your PaB halo Stevenaia :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: sometimes a solution is to try another complete avataar
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: nice steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: laughs
    Eliza Madrigal feels somehow like this is ideal of av subject/object exercizes
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pema Pera: Thank you all for your reports, on http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2011%2f%2f05%2f%2f20%3a_Reports
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Bleu :)
    Pema Pera: and thank you, Bleu for picking up the log!
    Bleu Oleander: yw!
    Pema Pera: Maxine must have gotten up very early; just noticed she posted her report in the last hour or so
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pema Pera: hi Maxine! I was just talking about you :-)
    Maxine Walden: oh oh!
    Pema Pera: and reading about "dust-cloud of presences"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi maxine
    Pema Pera: and there you came!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :) beautiful report!!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, everyone :)
    Darren Islar: ah I like the new hair wear Steve :)
    Darren Islar: hi Maxine
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Maxine:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu, your picture is fantastic, too....
    Maxine Walden: yes, Bleu, wonderful piic
    stevenaia Michinaga: aaa, Maxine, you are sitting on my hair
    Bleu Oleander: thanks Eliza :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Darren Islar: hehehe
    Maxine Walden: ouch, sorry!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: everyone wants to sit on Steve's invisible shoulders today :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: hehe
    Darren Islar: they want to be halo-ed :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: watch those points
    Darren Islar: ouch
    Pema Pera: I enjoyed reading Eliza's "A book blatantly requires participation... a magical thing"
    Maxine Walden: :) yes
    Eliza Madrigal: ty Pema, it was easy to feel fairy tale-ish this week
    Pema Pera: :-)

    Pema Pera: I found it very interesting to see how everybody had again such different approaches, and mixed of approaches, from empasis on being seen to emphasis on how/what the object sees (as Bleu and Adams wondered)
    Pema Pera: (and great picture, Bleu!)
    Bleu Oleander: :))
    Maxine Walden: I had a very warm feeling toward everyone in readng the reports...all engaged in this wonderful exploration and bringing our different views
    Eliza Madrigal nods. It is fascinating to me how Adams includes the history... considering all the people the set will see in the course of a day, its lifetime
    Eliza Madrigal: *seat
    Pema Pera: yes
    Maxine Walden: indeed
    Maxine Walden: the dimension of time, that space
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: and to feel like we get to have a beer with Pema in Japan
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: :>)
    Maxine Walden: so interesting the relaxation in 'letting oneself be seen' as if giving up the burden of carrying the world
    Pema Pera: yes!!
    Pema Pera: that's a central point
    Pema Pera: and I have found that I can go deeper and deeper into that point
    Pema Pera: almost each day deeper
    Maxine Walden: please say a bit more, Pema?
    Maxine Walden: just of your experience in that going deeper?
    Pema Pera: droppen burdens that I didn't know I had
    Pema Pera: like right away, in the first minute of doing subject/object reversal, most anybody I know feels a difference, right there
    Pema Pera: which could be described as letting go of something
    Pema Pera: something we didn't know we were holding onto
    Pema Pera: and then the more you do it, the more you feel you can let go
    Darren Islar nods
    Pema Pera: but very hard to put into words
    Maxine Walden: agree, agree and agree...:)
    Pema Pera: dropping is much quicker than gathering words to describe the dropping
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: for sure
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Maxine Walden: may be letting go of the dust cloud...
    Pema Pera: or viewing the dust cloud as not-you
    Pema Pera: letting go of overly tight identifications
    Maxine Walden: letting go of all the 'presences' that seem to define me, or my place/obligations, etc in the world
    Eliza Madrigal: or, letting it be 'me' too, when it seems not to be
    Pema Pera: and this reminds me of the fascinating question that Bleu asked: "So am I allowing the stone to see me or am I applying my theory of mind to the stone?"
    Pema Pera: perhaps there, too, we can find more layers . . .
    Pema Pera: like in allowing:
    Maxine Walden: yes, yes, so interesting a question bleu
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bleu Oleander: found it fun to ponder
    Pema Pera: I can ask: "am I allowing?" or I can ask "am I letting my awareness allow" or "am I letting awareness (not necessarily mine) allow?"
    Pema Pera: three rather different ways to do the first half of Bleu's question
    Pema Pera: or even "is awareness allowing me to see the stone or is awareness giving me the impression that I am projecting something onto the stone?"
    Bleu Oleander: am I awareness?



    Maxine Walden: different levels of 'ownership' or agency in these perspectives?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: good question, Bleu, what do we all think?
    Bleu Oleander: is awareness a process?
    Maxine Walden: A process as opposed to what, bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: is awareness consciousness?
    Bleu Oleander: opposed to?

    Maxine Walden: :) sorry, thought there was another part of your thought...my projection...
    stevenaia Michinaga: is awareness shared (like consciousness) , or one an individual's perspective
    Maxine Walden: my dust cloud interfering...or intersecting...
    Xirana Oximoxi: what's the difference between 'awareness' and 'consciousness'?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Maxine
    stevenaia Michinaga: trying to figure that out...
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I would think consciousness belies awareness
    Pema Pera: the way I have used the words in my book manuscript, I use awareness in a wider way, while I use consciousness within a subject-object relationship, Xirana, but perhaps for the present discussion that is not too important
    Xirana Oximoxi: aha.. thanks Pema :)
    Pema Pera: the main question is: we can posit many questions, like "is A like B" or "what is A" but how can we go about exploring those questions?
    Pema Pera: how to live them?
    Pema Pera: taste them, work with them?
    Pema Pera: beyond analysing them, which doesn't go very far
    Maxine Walden: Right now, seems that words, maybe even concepts may foreclose in attempting to define differences, boundaries...can be helpful but can also be frustrating
    Bleu Oleander: i think asking the questions is just putting words to our experience
    Pema Pera: but we can then let the question invite new experiences
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Pema Pera: reformulating as I did with your question, in a number of ways
    Bleu Oleander: seems many ways to approach experience
    Pema Pera: perhaps to sum up quickly the difference:
    Pema Pera: 1) normally we can say "I am my body and my body has a brain and my brain has consciousness/awareness"
    Pema Pera: 2) but we have the option to say "hey, wait a minute, everything I know about body and brain is given in awareness, even the feeling that it is `my awareness', so how does it feel to live from that perspective for a while"
    Pema Pera: trying to live for five minutes from 1) or from 2) gives a very different experience
    Maxine Walden: Awareness as cosmic?
    Pema Pera: *independently* of which one is "right"
    Bleu Oleander: consciousness/awareness are just words to describe the felt experience to me
    Pema Pera: do we agree that 1) and 2) give different experiences? or is that just my prejudice?
    Pema Pera: shall we try it for a few minutes, right now?
    Pema Pera: say, two minutes considering my body to be me
    Pema Pera: for the next two minutes, and see what that implies and how it feels?
    Maxine Walden: I would agree, for me your 1) and 2) suggest concentric circles, widening perspectives
    Pema Pera: so let's do that, body-centered, for two minutes, right now
    Pema Pera: and now let us switch: another two minutes in which we become awareness-centered
    Pema Pera: we are awareness, within which everything else appears
    Pema Pera: and now back to "normal" :-)
    Pema Pera: did those two feel different in any way?
    Bleu Oleander: for me consciousness is awarenes and I don't make the distinction between 1 and 2 in such a precise way
    Xirana Oximoxi: if I've imagined it right, I prefer to be 'awareness'... only body seems to material matters, needed but boring

    Bleu Oleander: 1 and 2 are inseparable
    Maxine Walden: For me, 2) is somewhat beyond my usual boundaries, my everyday sense of things...
    Xirana Oximoxi: I agree Bleu... but it was a 'game' to imagine and valuate it separated
    Eliza Madrigal: for me ideas about consciousness are a way to open up to awareness, as is concentrating on body... so feels like whether going 'in' (earthy) or 'out' (concepts) both open into awareness which seems more endless
    Maxine Walden: nice, Eliza
    Pema Pera: exactly, Xirana!
    Pema Pera: we're not asking what could/should but whether there is a difference in how it feels, for starters
    Pema Pera: data gathering in a way, before trying to analyze
    Pema Pera: as Eliza just did :)
    Bleu Oleander: yes, I realize it's an exercise, but for me I don't "feel" the difference as clearly as has been stated
    Pema Pera: that's also a result, and interesting in itself, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: we don't all have to reach the same results of an exercise
    Pema Pera: Xirana, apart from preferences, that you described, did you feel a difference?
    Pema Pera: certainly not, Bleu!
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, sometimes this seems more clear than others as well... like there is a texture to consciousness one can feel through
    Pema Pera: (and each of us won't reach the same result, each time we do it!)
    Bleu Oleander: all felt results are valid
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Maxine Walden: agree, bleu
    Pema Pera: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: genuiness
    Pema Pera: perhaps it is a bit like wine tasting, the more you do it, the more you notice nuances
    Eliza Madrigal: *genuine-ness :)
    Pema Pera: and we can help each other to "sniff" more, in different ways
    Xirana Oximoxi: to feel only body seems to be caring only for phisical matters, like eating, moving, feeling pain or pleasure... and so on... being only awareness.. can be similar to the experience we have with SL, where body is not important (only to type:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Pema Pera: interesting parallel, Xirana!
    Bleu Oleander: even in wine tasting sometimes you never agree on the "tasting" experience :)
    Pema Pera: and of course, whatever we "sniff" can just be fantasy -- that's a different question
    Pema Pera: so by comparing notes (about wine or spirits) we can begin to find out which aspects are individual and which more general
    Eliza Madrigal: nice :)
    Pema Pera: most everybody would agree that a Merlot is sweeter than a Pinot Noir
    Pema Pera: but comparing different Pinot Noirs is already getting more tricky
    Bleu Oleander: depends on the Merlot :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Bleu
    Pema Pera imagining drinking very very old Merlot :-)
    Bleu Oleander: have had some pretty bad Merlots along the way :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and then there is the fragrance which is subtlely diff from taste
    Bleu Oleander: many layers of experience ... the color as well
    Eliza Madrigal: and the ideas about the 'last one' you had
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: (^_^)
    Bleu Oleander: exactly, Merlot history ^________^
    Pema Pera: any other viewpoints and/or experiences?
    Pema Pera: or ideas or questions?
    Maxine Walden: lots of both!!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))))
    Pema Pera: go ahead Maxine, how about the first three that come to mind?
    Pema Pera: (we still have three minutes, after all :-)
    Maxine Walden: hahaha!!
    Bleu Oleander: related to above, how does history relate to awareness?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :)
    Pema Pera: time appears in awareness
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Luci:)
    Pema Pera: and depending on your view, you may consider awareness as influenced by history
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
    Bleu Oleander: is awareness seen through the lens of history or history through the lens of awareness?
    Pema Pera: both are possible
    Xirana Oximoxi: I think ' history through the lens of awareness', bleu :)
    Pema Pera: and both can be explored

    stevenaia Michinaga: seems awarness is another aspect of time
    Pema Pera: and time is telling us "time is up" :-)
    Maxine Walden: reluctantly have to go; look forward to next time
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    Bleu Oleander: bye everyone :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey luci, bye all leavers
    stevenaia Michinaga: :) bye Pema, MAxine
    Pema Pera: I'll write something more soon, and let y'all know!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Luci
    Lucinda Lavender: HI everyone:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Pema :)) Look forward to that

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