2011.05.21 13:00 - Taoism and its friends

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.


    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ric
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Aphrodite Macbain: have you been here before?
    Ricfender Resident: yes for the 1st time yesterday
    Aphrodite Macbain: welcome
    Ricfender Resident: thank you!
    Aphrodite Macbain: You have just arrived recently in second life?
    Ricfender Resident: small turnout today
    Ricfender Resident: yes last week
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. it is usually quiet on Saturdays. Maybe 3-4 people come by
    Ricfender Resident: this is a cool thing though
    Aphrodite Macbain: everyone is catching up on their life on Saturday
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. Did you have an interesting discussion yesterday?
    Ricfender Resident: well, i kinda came in late and then had to go because I only had a few before an appointment
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah. well- it was good you found us!
    Ricfender Resident: but yes it was nice
    Ricfender Resident: thanks
    Ricfender Resident: I thing it was a search on Taoism
    Aphrodite Macbain: are you from North America?
    Ricfender Resident: yes florida, you?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Vancouver Canada
    Ricfender Resident: I was there once, lots of interesting things your way
    Aphrodite Macbain: when were you here? during the Olympics?
    Ricfender Resident: no about 7 years ago. just a vacation in BC
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice
    Ricfender Resident: it was
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you interested in Taoism?
    Ricfender Resident: Victoria, Seatle, Oregon
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are
    Ricfender Resident: yes,
    Ricfender Resident: buddism, yoga
    Ricfender Resident: lot's of eastern thought
    Aphrodite Macbain: have you been studying it?
    Ricfender Resident: Yoga, I have had some formal training, taoism, none, buddism, some
    Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like me!
    Ricfender Resident: I guess I take from all kinds of stuff
    Aphrodite Macbain: Buddhism, meditation and yoga go together
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt
    Ricfender Resident: yes they do!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Xirana
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi to all:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know little of Taoism but think it also relates to Buddhism in some way
    Ricfender Resident: agreed
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely dress Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: ty:)
    Ricfender Resident: but yet still a bit of it's own
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Aphrodite Macbain: Xirana, Qt, this is Ric, he just joined us yesterday
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Qt Core: good, welcome Ric
    Ricfender Resident: thanks
    Xirana Oximoxi: nice to meet you Ric:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: How are things in Milan Qt?
    Ricfender Resident: same here, peace to you
    Qt Core: quite good, ty, and on your side of the globe ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: well, it's softly raining after three lovely days of sunshine
    Aphrodite Macbain: Xirana, Qt, Ric and I were talking about our interests in Buddhism, yoga and meditation
    Ricfender Resident: and Taoism
    Aphrodite Macbain: but are not too sure how Taoism relates to Buddhism
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do either of yu know much about Taoism?
    Ricfender Resident: It was my first introduction into eastern thought about 25 years ago
    Aphrodite Macbain listens
    Qt Core: not really
    Ricfender Resident: there are so many translations of the Tao Te Ching that finding a good one is important
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is that where most of Taoist teaching comes from?
    Xirana Oximoxi: since I come to Pab, I'm also interested in all this subjects .. more curious than other thing, soon I will have more time and will try to read about it... I'm not relgious, but meditation is a good practice for everyone
    Ricfender Resident: true
    Aphrodite Macbain: meditation is a practice of Buddhism but it doesn't need to be part of a religious practice - much like yoga
    Ricfender Resident: agreed
    Xirana Oximoxi: I agree too:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) we are all very agreeable
    Xirana Oximoxi: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have ben reading a book by Pema Chodron, called Comfortable with Uncertainty
    Xirana Oximoxi: the title (of the Chodron book) is really suggesting for how things work in our society actually
    Ricfender Resident: The tao te ching translation I like the best is by Archie Bahm
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you read it in order to help your practice or out of interest only Ric?
    Ricfender Resident: at the time I found it, I was in need of a new way, It kinda started me on my spiritual journey
    Aphrodite Macbain: what was it about it that got you started?
    Ricfender Resident: i was raised christian and none of what I was taught seemed to be what was...
    Ricfender Resident: I dabbled in LSD and found no answers there either
    Ricfender Resident: enter the tao
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles
    Xirana Oximoxi: well, probably in China things are working like in all 'occidental' societies today... you have nothing for sure, job, partner, .. everything can change quick
    Aphrodite Macbain: but it was written hundreds of years ago
    Ricfender Resident: the thing about Taoism that rings loudest is near the beginning where it talks about the tao being nothing like it's definition ever could be
    Aphrodite Macbain: I guess what we need to to is pull out the universal truths
    Qt Core: then it was even worse, no protection from floods, caresties, monsoon,
    Aphrodite Macbain: interesting Ric
    Ricfender Resident: words and concepts are not the "thing" we are talking about
    Ricfender Resident: they become new realities unto themselves
    Aphrodite Macbain: right; can you say more Ric?
    Ricfender Resident: well, chair. A chair each of us know what it is but do we see the same chair?
    Ricfender Resident: now let's try to say god
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah the fact that our subjectivity shapes how we see things?
    Ricfender Resident: do we see the same god?
    Ricfender Resident: true
    Xirana Oximoxi: Aph, you have read it, do you think it helps to live in our quick changing days?
    Xirana Oximoxi: I'm talking about 'Comfortable with Uncertainty'
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh - it really helps Xirana
    Ricfender Resident: I like that "comfortable with uncertainty."Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: hiya =)
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Hokon:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Aphrodite Macbain: hehe
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Qt Core: hi Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: hola
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, it talks about how to be a courageous Boddhisatva warrior and look reality in the eye rather than escaping from it
    Ricfender Resident: there is a taoist saying... you cannot uncover mind with mind... but what else is there?
    Aphrodite Macbain: a realization that you can't
    Aphrodite Macbain: but to do your best perhaps
    Ricfender Resident: or perhaps a question that doen't need to be answered
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hokon, we're talking about Taoism
    Hokon Cazalet: oh cool
    Hokon Cazalet: ty
    Aphrodite Macbain: we are all beginners - just beginning to learn about it
    Ricfender Resident: Like any tool it can help you or hurt you
    Aphrodite Macbain: What is the tool? The teaching?
    Ricfender Resident: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: How can the teaching hurt you?
    Ricfender Resident: well, if you apply it incorrectly
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah. Ok
    Aphrodite Macbain: can you give an example?
    Ricfender Resident: if you misunderstand it
    Ricfender Resident: If I believe I am correct in my view on say, the way the universe works, Then I act as if I know, but that does not constitute knowing it at all
    Ricfender Resident: I only act as if I know
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have a hard time applying the teachings of Buddhism to my own life. The language is so full of abstracts statements and metaphors that it is difficult to know how to act.
    Ricfender Resident: true
    Ricfender Resident: many layers
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen GTSY
    Xirana Oximoxi: I go now... see you all soon :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye:)
    Qt Core: Bye Xirana
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for coming by
    Ricfender Resident: peace
    Zen Arado: bye Xirana
    Hokon Cazalet: bye xirana
    Hokon Cazalet: hi zen =)
    Qt Core: Hi Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi all :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zen. We're talking about Taoism and Buddhism and how to apply it to our real lives
    Zen Arado: good
    Ricfender Resident: or our second life!
    Aphrodite Macbain: the language is abstract and metaphorical

    Zen Arado: good luck
    Ricfender Resident: right
    Aphrodite Macbain grins
    Qt Core: so you spend time trying to understand it and not doing something worse ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: right Qt
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have you changed your way of being in the world as a result of yur practise Zen?
    Zen Arado: your practice changes you Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
    Aphrodite Macbain: how?
    Aphrodite Macbain: how has it changed you, do you think?
    Zen Arado: well...how do you judge that?
    Zen Arado: the judge has changed too
    Aphrodite Macbain: I don't know
    Ricfender Resident: no control group to compare it to
    Zen Arado: like a drunk man thinks he is sober
    Ricfender Resident: yep
    Zen Arado: think I am calmer now
    Zen Arado: not upset
    Aphrodite Macbain: you can face difficulties more easily?
    Zen Arado: not upset so easily I was going to say
    Aphrodite Macbain: equanamous
    Aphrodite Macbain: sp?
    Zen Arado: I don't let the past linger so long
    Zen Arado: come back into the present
    Aphrodite Macbain: and if the present is turbulent?
    Ricfender Resident: a key there- the present is all there really is
    Zen Arado: it hasn't improved my typing though :(
    Aphrodite Macbain grins
    Ricfender Resident: lol
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: but you don't get upset about it
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Zen Arado: still start thinking about things
    Zen Arado: but it passes more quickly
    Ricfender Resident: attachment!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Has it influenced your actions and decisions you make?
    Zen Arado: yeh can detach easier
    Zen Arado: I tend to go with the flow of things more instead of being a control freak
    Aphrodite Macbain: I fear that if I am too detached I am also not so engaged with the world
    Ricfender Resident: like a river
    Aphrodite Macbain: passive
    Aphrodite Macbain: hard to be passive AND a warrior
    Aphrodite Macbain: warrior
    Zen Arado: no...accepting but not passive
    Ricfender Resident: it depends on what is called for
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice distinction Zen
    Qt Core: suppose knowing is not attachment
    Aphrodite Macbain: no - knowing is neutral
    Zen Arado: http://dev.redwerks.org/ettv/2011/05/finding-balance/
    Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle article
    Zen Arado: about that
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have you seen him speak?
    Zen Arado: no
    Aphrodite Macbain: He lives in Vancouver!
    Zen Arado: I know
    Aphrodite Macbain: but I've never seen him speak
    Zen Arado: he makes big money nowadays
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, so I gather
    Hokon Cazalet wishes she could make money selling ideas in books
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Hokon
    Aphrodite Macbain: Don't people do that all the time Hokon?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I saw a video of one of his retreat talks
    Zen Arado: his talks can be fun
    Aphrodite Macbain: I didn't warm to him but what he was saying was interesting
    Zen Arado: he says the same things as most of them
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Hokon Cazalet: hiya =)
    Ricfender Resident: hi
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol
    Qt Core: Hi WOl
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol :)
    Zen Arado: yes Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: yup they do aphrodite
    Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle repackages Eastern philosophies ...like Zen Advaita
    Zen Arado: he is good at it too I think
    Zen Arado: and entertaining

    Aphrodite Macbain: We're talking about Buddhism and its applications Wol.
    Wol Euler: ty
    Aphrodite Macbain: and also about Taoism

    Hokon Cazalet: I hope to do that with ancient greek ideas =)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am wondering how something so abstract and metaphoric can be applied to our lives
    Hokon Cazalet: it is odd how that happens
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zen - he makes me think of an impish elf. He chuckles a lot!
    Zen Arado: Niomachean repackaged
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe zen
    Zen Arado: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zen - can you define that?
    Zen Arado: there is a Neo-aristotellianism already
    Hokon Cazalet: yup ive heard a bit about it
    Zen Arado: no Aph
    Zen Arado: forgotten it
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah. Nice sounding word tho
    Zen Arado: but it is about Virtue ethics
    Hokon Cazalet: nichomacheian is the title of one of Aristotle's works on ethics, the term itself is somebody's name
    Zen Arado: ah yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Hokon
    Zen Arado: eudaimonia
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Aphrodite Macbain: So Tolle is about ethics?
    Zen Arado: cultivatying the virtues
    Hokon Cazalet: flourishing / happiness (not to be confused with sense-pleasure)
    Aphrodite Macbain: sounds a bit prudish to me...
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: it is a good system I think
    Zen Arado: but if we practice Buddhism we are doing that
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Hokon Cazalet: only cuz of what the words have become, virtue for aristotle just meant excellence
    Aphrodite Macbain: not getting hooked into it any way
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: cultivate our good qualities
    Ricfender Resident: words and meanings, who can tell?

    Wol Euler excuses herself and slips quietly away
    Hokon Cazalet: aw
    Hokon Cazalet: byebyes
    Aphrodite Macbain: was it something I said Wol?
    Hokon Cazalet: no maybe me, i have a habit of sometimes veering the topics here off to other places
    Aphrodite Macbain: - sometimes those places are very interesting Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe ty, i think so =P
    Zen Arado: probably got an invite somewhere:)

    Hungrry for love

    Hokon Cazalet: or she was hungry =)
    Hokon Cazalet: like i am
    Aphrodite Macbain: That's usually my reason for leaving..
    Zen Arado: hungry for love?
    Hokon Cazalet: for pizza
    Zen Arado: song title?
    Ricfender Resident: ya
    Aphrodite Macbain: I just had a pile of pancakes and maple syrup and bacon and I'm still hungry
    Hokon Cazalet: yummy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hungry for love, life and pancakes
    Ricfender Resident: YEA
    Ricfender Resident: and tea
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe an other song title?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes tea. Have just discovered pu-er tea
    Hokon Cazalet: food is the material or substance of life, to live is to eat; i eat therefore i am (my sister a few years ago lol)
    Aphrodite Macbain: delish
    Ricfender Resident: I have a tea fetish
    Aphrodite Macbain: hehe Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe my sister is always goofy :Þ
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes? how is that manifested?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yr tea fetish.

    Ricfender Resident: only consumption
    Aphrodite Macbain: do you drink tea constantly Ric?

    Hokon Cazalet: wb zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi again Zen
    Zen Arado: ty
    Ricfender Resident: Hi again Zen, another song title of koan
    Aphrodite Macbain: I see you've been visiting Paradise again Zen
    Zen Arado: how do you know that Aph?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's in the text above yr head
    Zen Arado: what is?
    Aphrodite Macbain: the supertext

    Zen Arado: I haven't got the tag showing?

    Qt Core: i have to go, bye all and have fun... tea and pizza
    Aphrodite Macbain: are you off Qt?
    Hokon Cazalet: hiya stevenaia =) bye Qt
    Qt Core: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ciao & arrivaderci
    Ricfender Resident: hello
    Qt Core: Ciao!
    Zen Arado: bye Qt
    Hokon Cazalet: i should get food, im hungry
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya sun!
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi there ;)
    Zen Arado: Hi Sun :)
    Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
    Ricfender Resident: been lovely, peace and love to you all!
    Hokon Cazalet: bye ric
    Sunshine Vayandar: Hi Hokon, Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: great to talk with you Ric
    Sunshine Vayandar: nice to see everyone
    Zen Arado: bye Ric
    Zen Arado: Hi Steve :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Too bad you weren't here earlier. We were talking about Taoism
    Hokon Cazalet: hi stevenaia =)
    Sunshine Vayandar: nice to see you Stevie ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I missed all about the Tao?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Sun Ric, who was here earlier talked about his interest in Taoism and we were discussing it a bit
    Zen Arado: yeh but you have to go with the flow :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ok ;) Zensan is right
    Hokon Cazalet: ok im gonna go get some food, bbl, nice to see you all again on my new pc =)
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
    Zen Arado: yay
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK Hokon
    Sunshine Vayandar: take care Hokon ;)
    Aphrodite Macbain: bon appetit
    Hokon Cazalet: yummies
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye!
    Sunshine Vayandar: bon appetit ;)
    Zen Arado: TC Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet waves

    Sunshine Vayandar: how are you Zen, Aph Stevie?
    Sunshine Vayandar: oh Stevie is gone
    Sunshine Vayandar: sounds nice
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Zen Arado: um....checking....
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think he was having problems
    Sunshine Vayandar: I have this - u might like
    Zen Arado: seem about slightly higher than middle
    Aphrodite Macbain: I was struggling with how to apply theory and teaching into life practice
    Zen Arado: mood
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry, bad attempt from my phone
    Sunshine Vayandar: higher than middle mood?
    Sunshine Vayandar: np Stevie ;)
    Zen Arado: so better to just practice and allow it to change you Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: wb steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry I missed the Tao discussion
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Barto
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Barto
    Barto Etzel: hi
    Aphrodite Macbain: been here before?
    Aphrodite Macbain: discussion is recorded and put on a public wiki. Is it OK with you that what you say is recorded Barto?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zen Arado: Hi Barto
    Barto Etzel: no
    Zen Arado: Taoism is incorporated into Zen you know
    Zen Arado: mixture of Buddhism and Taoism
    stevenaia Michinaga: which came first?
    Zen Arado: Taoism I think
    Barto Etzel: no problem
    Aphrodite Macbain: the chicken
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
    Zen Arado: or maybe Buddhism and Taoism started around the same time
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was at my monthly RL Daoist discussion group earlier
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think Taoism is older by far
    Aphrodite Macbain listens to Steve
    Zen Arado: when it moved to China the two met I think
    Zen Arado: or was it Japan?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I know the i Ching is older than bother the and yin/Yang was present then
    Aphrodite Macbain: Taoism is from China
    Aphrodite Macbain plays with the term "older than bother" and likes it
    Sunshine Vayandar: older than bother hmm ;)
    Zen Arado: Buddhism changes with different cultures
    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting what I think is sometimes different than what I typer
    Zen Arado: there is an Irish Buddhism now
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you able to incorporate the theory from Taoism into your life Stevenaia or is it too abstract or irrelevant now?
    Sunshine Vayandar: and African Buddhism
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: with drums :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: actually, I have found parallels between my life and taoism, we just found each other
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: now I can easily lather taoism all over my life comfortably
    Aphrodite Macbain: was it a friendly meeting?
    stevenaia Michinaga: like finding a lost friend :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: that sounds so nice ;)
    Aphrodite Macbain tries to imagine what a layer of Taoism would look like wrapped around Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: behaving in a way that has already been discussed for thousands of years and you never knew it
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is it more"familiar" than Buddhism?
    stevenaia Michinaga: lather, like soap or whipped cream
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles
    Zen Arado: I liked what Eckhart Tolle said about how things seem to happen when you go with the flow
    Zen Arado: Sometimes holding that space of simple Presence activates other factors that then come in, seemingly, from the outside to change the situation. You have activated the intelligence of the totality. It’s not necessarily coming through this form. That is why people speak of synchronistic things happening, suddenly a helpful factor comes in, suddenly the right person appears, the right thing happens."
    stevenaia Michinaga: when I was trying to understand Buddhism with friends here... there was no "fit"
    Sunshine Vayandar: ty Zen ;)
    Aphrodite Macbain: so interesting Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: like a suit on a rack, some things fit, some things do not
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders how Taoism would fit her
    stevenaia Michinaga: Buddahism seems like the sleeves were too long and needed suspenders
    Aphrodite Macbain: what was it about Taoism Steve?
    Zen Arado: but maybe we have to drop things to allow a fit Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: or find another rack of suits
    Aphrodite Macbain: but there needs to be a will to do that
    stevenaia Michinaga: a will and a level of comfort
    Zen Arado: there is a right time too I think
    Aphrodite Macbain whispers, I have to leave now everyone. yes steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Aphrodite
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks for the conversation and insight
    Sunshine Vayandar: take care Aph ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: your pants are riped
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: (in the back)
    Zen Arado: bye Aph
    stevenaia Michinaga: Toaism has also activated a new sense of understanding of poetry, something I never had
    stevenaia Michinaga: and yes zen, this could never have happened 10 years ago, yu need to be in the right place at the right time
    Zen Arado: I read a book about Buddhism 20 years ago and became a Christian :)
    Zen Arado: 30 years ago rather
    Sunshine Vayandar: really
    Zen Arado: wasn't ready for Buddhism
    stevenaia Michinaga: what were you?
    Zen Arado: Presbyterian :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I came from a secular background - in Hungary we had no spiritual education at all
    Zen Arado: it was drummed into us
    Sunshine Vayandar: and I am still 'nothing' lol
    Zen Arado: even in school
    Zen Arado: yeh I am nothing too
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
    Zen Arado: not a label or category any more
    Zen Arado: I practice Zen and read lots of other stuff too
    Sunshine Vayandar: I just keep learning as life carries on
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: so long as we allow it to
    Sunshine Vayandar: true
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but I am becoming more patient, no rush ot "get somewhere"
    Zen Arado: we can close ourselves off
    Zen Arado: yes cos we are there already
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes it's good to slow down
    Zen Arado: we just allow it
    stevenaia Michinaga: Play as Stevie
    Zen Arado: yes
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
    Sunshine Vayandar: Play as white zulu
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Zen Arado: play as Zennie being :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: hehe that is nice
    Sunshine Vayandar: maybe we can exchange ...
    Sunshine Vayandar: I could take Zennie being and you take white zulu


    Zen Arado: oh I see I have a heap of fish in my inventory :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: or I take Stevie
    Sunshine Vayandar: fish?
    Zen Arado: uncommon fish
    Sunshine Vayandar: i see
    Zen Arado: :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) I wonder how it got there
    Zen Arado: hmmmm
    Sunshine Vayandar: Zen must have been fishing
    Zen Arado: so many too :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
    Zen Arado: even though some got away
    Sunshine Vayandar: anyone for fishing ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: well not many
    Zen Arado: and they were the biggest :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: catch and release
    Sunshine Vayandar: u lured them all in with your Zennie-ness
    Zen Arado: my fishing skill
    Sunshine Vayandar: have u tried fishing in SL?
    Sunshine Vayandar: Stevie or Barto
    stevenaia Michinaga: no
    Barto Etzel: I tried in RL
    Sunshine Vayandar: and how is that
    Zen Arado: hey I caught a tuna
    Barto Etzel: when I was kid I used to enjoy it
    Sunshine Vayandar: kk
    Barto Etzel: not anymore
    Zen Arado: that's a BIG fish :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: there a well stocked pond nearby?
    Sunshine Vayandar: have u seen that movie - Big Fish
    Barto Etzel: I have
    Barto Etzel: it is great
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes great film
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I never tried in RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: fishing in the fountain :)
    Barto Etzel: that was long ago
    Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
    Zen Arado: pretty small tuna :)
    Sunshine Vayandar: I give you a sample from our catch ;)
    Zen Arado: it can be cruel the way they catch tuna
    Sunshine Vayandar: hi Mignon ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: feelis like Bruce
    Zen Arado: I saw in TV prog one time
    Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thnks
    Sunshine Vayandar: yw ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: what was the program about Zen
    Zen Arado: long time ago
    Zen Arado: they kinda herded them into nets and stuck spears into them
    Zen Arado: the water was red with blood  (editors note: The Cove)
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;(
    Barto Etzel: I love tuna sashimi
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Zen Arado: gone off it now
    Zen Arado: :)

    Sunshine Vayandar: hmm time for me to go - ty for telling me about the Tao ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: try to see if it fits ;)
    Sunshine Vayandar: take care all
    Zen Arado: k
    Zen Arado: bye Sun
    Sunshine Vayandar: see u soon
    Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
    Barto Etzel: bye
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: so you are into Taoism Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry stepped away from some choloate baklava, bye Sun
    Zen Arado: np
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, an interesting confluence of SL and RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was doing yoga for a bit and kept meeting more buddists in SL and RL
    Zen Arado: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: then I switch to Tai Chi after leaving the gym where the yoga classes were held
    stevenaia Michinaga: and liked the pace bettter
    Zen Arado: it's like the right teachings appear when you are ready for them
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: the right teacher appears too
    stevenaia Michinaga: then the tao discussions here , learing about Wu Wei, it all made sense
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Zen Arado: a lot of it is being able to relax and let things happen
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the path vs the destination
    Zen Arado: we are so conditioned to do things and expect results
    Zen Arado: do A to get B
    stevenaia Michinaga: in my case, do nothing and B arrives
    Zen Arado: or a different kind of doing anyway
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, the doing that you can be comfortable with... not doing
    Zen Arado: you couldn't stop yourself from doing things I think
    Zen Arado: it's what we attach to the doing maybe
    stevenaia Michinaga: so many I know insist on pushing back when things don't align... expecting alignment to come from that
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Barto Etzel: well, very humbly
    stevenaia Michinaga: in tai chi, you "step out of way"
    Zen Arado: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: the way
    Zen Arado: my teacher tells us to get out of our own way
    Barto Etzel: not doing things means you abstain from producing reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: or... redirect toward harmony
    stevenaia Michinaga: reality produces itself
    Zen Arado: yes
    Barto Etzel: with all due respect, I believe beings make reality
    Zen Arado: it's the motive behind it too isn't it?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I tend to be highly productive by approching things with intent, not avoidance
    Zen Arado: we aren't in control as much as we think
    Barto Etzel: yes, we aren't in control of everything
    Barto Etzel: but a few things we do have control
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the intent is not to beat people over the head with things
    stevenaia Michinaga: we have control over ourselves
    Zen Arado: we think we have...but do we really?
    stevenaia Michinaga: to an extent
    Barto Etzel: and over a few things and people around us too
    stevenaia Michinaga: I can choose to be here
    Barto Etzel: to an extent
    Zen Arado: not sure about that even
    Zen Arado: but all your choices depend on everything that happened before
    Barto Etzel: people can definitely influence other people
    Zen Arado: I have to go
    Barto Etzel: to some extent they depend on your past history
    Zen Arado: no choice :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye zen
    Barto Etzel: By Zen
    Zen Arado: ty for interesting discussion
    Barto Etzel: I have ideas about choice
    Zen Arado: bye
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes the "big influences are not trying to influence people
    Barto Etzel: yes, they simply do
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods change w/o intent
    stevenaia Michinaga: by example
    Barto Etzel: well some other times with intent
    Barto Etzel: I do not necessarily agree we have no choice and simply follow our path ´
    Barto Etzel: but "intent" is not clear though
    stevenaia Michinaga: even if that's the choice?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a path is a choice
    Barto Etzel: well, there are some realy strange things going on with what we call reality
    Barto Etzel: I mean quantum mechanics
    stevenaia Michinaga: strange?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure how that affects my reality
    Barto Etzel: there seems to be an element of randomness
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am not a physics person
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is a physics person, a physician?
    Barto Etzel: a physicist
    stevenaia Michinaga: duh, ofcourse
    stevenaia Michinaga: I digress
    Barto Etzel: we all should know a little about it because it tells us things about the world
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do know a little, and I suspect it will be more and more important over time and understanding
    Barto Etzel: randomness does exist
    Barto Etzel: so I think our actions depend on previous history and randomness
    stevenaia Michinaga: every "next moment" has a degree of randomness
    Barto Etzel: Yes
    Barto Etzel: for the good or for the bad
    Barto Etzel: we are poker players
    Barto Etzel: sucess most of the times means knowing the odds
    stevenaia Michinaga: so you can stack the randomness deck in quantum mechanics?
    Barto Etzel: seems like the more you can calculate the better, you can Influence the world
    Barto Etzel: but perhaps this is only locally in space and time
    stevenaia Michinaga: locally? you mean this universe?
    Barto Etzel: well, quantum mechanics just teaches you how to compute the probability of how reality will look like at the next moment ´
    Barto Etzel: and it is unbelivably accurate
    Barto Etzel: locally I mean in your surroundings
    Barto Etzel: both in space and time
    stevenaia Michinaga: someday we may know what these are
    stevenaia Michinaga: (time and space)
    Barto Etzel: Just look around and see how humanity has improved it's life expectancy by being able to calculate things
    Barto Etzel: In ancient times randomness was killing alot of people
    Barto Etzel: too soon
    Barto Etzel: Now we act locally
    Barto Etzel: seemingly improve our lives
    Barto Etzel: but have no clue what we are doing to the planet
    Barto Etzel: in the long run
    stevenaia Michinaga: time will tell
    Barto Etzel: yes, that is out of our control
    stevenaia Michinaga: in the long run, there may not be a planet to worry about, it's all relative

    The rapture ruptures

    Barto Etzel: will there be humans ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: when the ants take over
    stevenaia Michinaga: well it is judgement day after all
    stevenaia Michinaga: in 2 minutes we may not exist
    Barto Etzel: we don't know
    stevenaia Michinaga: 6:00
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: one of those random possibilities
    Barto Etzel: yes
    Barto Etzel: it is like a simulated reality
    Barto Etzel: sl and rl - no difference
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must got ready for the rapture :)
    Barto Etzel: Ok, bye , thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if I should pack my sunglasses
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice talking to you, feel free to come back, we meet every 6 hours
    stevenaia Michinaga: 1 & 7


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