2011.05.27 07:00 - Wholeheartedly Without Attachment

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal filling in for Lucinda who is happily traveling. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, joined by Bleu, SophiaSharon, Pema, Bertrum, Arch, Wester, Boxy, a new visitor and momentarily, Zon.

    Bleu Oleander: bye Fef
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning Arch :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Morning, and....smokes to all who has them *g*
    Pema Pera: Bleu, when are you going to tell us abotu the Big Secret ?
    Eliza Madrigal: What an interesting session, sort of al over the road and all in one place at the same time
    Bleu Oleander: ah be patient!
    Bleu Oleander: save the date though
    Pema Pera trying to be patiently curious
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera normally just patently curious
    Bleu Oleander: it is very exciting ... I will say that much!
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the heads up

    Pema Pera: if nothing else, you've already made it very exciting, whatever it is!
    Bleu Oleander: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: :))

    Bleu Oleander: anticipation ...
    Pema Pera: like standing in the middle of a busy square and looking up . . .
    Pema Pera: just to see how many others will follow
    Eliza Madrigal: that may be the log title 'already very exciting whatever it is'
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Bleu Oleander: haha!

    Pema Pera: or walking with a sign "the end is near!"
    Pema Pera: as opposed to PaB: "the end is here!"
    Bleu Oleander: no end
    Yakuzza Lethecus: starting in the end :P
    Bleu Oleander: :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the end IS HERE :P
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
    Pema Pera: hi Sharon!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :) Morning
    Pema Pera: evening here
    Pema Pera: or night rather
    Pema Pera: 11 pm
    Bleu Oleander: 7 am here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 4 pm :)
    Eliza Madrigal: 10:06am
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Eliza Madrigal: I seem to have 6 extra minutes
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Eliza ;0
    Bleu Oleander: bonus time
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Pema Pera: astronomers are not too careful with time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
    Bleu Oleander makes note to change clocks battery
    Pema Pera: a million years here or there . . .
    Pema Pera: on a billion
    Eliza Madrigal: how convenient, heh
    Pema Pera: or six minutes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a ballpark figure
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: grace period :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ha
    Bleu Oleander: could def use some of that!

    Pema Pera: when I went to my first international conference, I heard someone say "a ballpark figure" and I had NO IDEA what that was!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: time is relative, timeless time if pema´s mind runs on a wave thorugh the galaxy :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Pema lol
    Pema Pera: which ball ? which park ? which figure ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: then I saw cheer leaders . . .
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this wasn't recently?
    Eliza Madrigal shakes head
    Pema Pera: thirty plus years ago
    Bleu Oleander: being a Yankee fan since birth ... have no prob with that metaphor :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i thought so :)
    Pema Pera: in Europe you don't hear about ballpark figures
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Pema) and lol Bleu
    SophiaSharon Larnia: are they more precise there?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Bleu Oleander: fuzzy math
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the ballpark must not hold the same iconography (or something like that)
    Pema Pera: soccer is perhaps more precise?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know, i know some people very very precise about baseball
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Eliza Madrigal thinks of george carlin's skit on the aggressiveness of some sports... baseball v football....
    Bleu Oleander: Yankee fans :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: he says baseball is so peaceful... on a park
    Eliza Madrigal: and football on a grid...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not in the stands?
    Eliza Madrigal: very clever actually... the views behind games
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: yes, words we choose
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods

    Pema Pera remembering again the real puzzle: almost any sport is played with a ball, and in a kind of park, so I was honestly totally puzzled -- the fuzzyness of the expression fitted the final meaning!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb arch
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Arch
    Eliza Madrigal: I imagine that it takes a bit of getting used to, thinking in such huge terms
    Pema Pera: your PaB remarks triggered quite some echose, Arch!
    Eliza Madrigal: wb Arch :)
    Pema Pera: *echoes
    Eliza Madrigal: ....echoes echoes echoes...
    Pema Pera: *echos?
    Archmage Atlantis: "echose" ?
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure now :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a way you have to practically deal with it is use symbols to represent a huge number, ive always felt that diminished the number for some reason
    Bleu Oleander: echo many
    Pema Pera: echose = electronic voting system?


    Eliza Madrigal: (hi boxy [bell])
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi boxy :)
    Pema Pera: that's what's so nice about "a gadzillion" -- it has NO symbol that I know of! :-)
    Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Boxy :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Of course it has a symbol, Pema
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha Pema, I like gabillion
    Pema Pera sees a number game coming up . . .
    Archmage Atlantis: Z0}>

    Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefin...itious_numbers

    Pema Pera: looks good, Arch!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh that is funny
    Bleu Oleander: oodles ... like that one :)
    Pema Pera: I like kabillion
    Archmage Atlantis: Nothing that can be imagined is fictitious for long
    Pema Pera: nice ring to it
    Pema Pera: and squintillion
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ive never heard of that one
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Pema Pera: I just made it up
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sounds like it should be infinitely small
    Pema Pera: from squillion in wikipedia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D oh, then thats way lol
    Pema Pera: with a dash of "tril
    SophiaSharon Larnia: why*
    Pema Pera: as in you have to squint to count?
    Archmage Atlantis: I think squintillion has to do with cartoon sponges from the south pacific
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bleucrometer
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I thought that too Sharon...hah

    Pema Pera: well, counting makes me sleepy . . . . one sheep, two sheep, squintillion sheeps . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertrum
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    Pema Pera: time to get some sleep!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema! nice to see you, stay safe.
    Pema Pera: perchance to dream about umptillion sheep . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :) Pleasant sleeps
    Bleu Oleander: bye Pema :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Archmage Atlantis: To sleep, perchance to dream, Pema
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night pema
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Bleu Oleander: gives counting sheep new meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: sheep counting pema
    Pema Pera: the art of sheep counting . . . where art and science meet
    Pema Pera: bfn
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: counting alpacas works sometimes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: arch ;p
    Bleu Oleander: counting dogs works for me :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: shake things up once in a while
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bleu

    Eliza Madrigal: somehow we're back to indra's net :)

    Archmage Atlantis: alpacas playing poker
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, definitely alpacas
    Bleu Oleander: as in too many ON the bed :)
    Archmage Atlantis: on velvet
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if Wester knows she signed off
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (am I the only one who still sees her here)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Bertrum
    Bleu Oleander: I don't see her
    Bertrum Resident: hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmmm
    Bleu Oleander: some heavy lag you have there
    Yakuzza Lethecus: neither do i
    Archmage Atlantis: I do not see Wester....but she has special powers....so I expect that
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, sl is getting relativer and relativer
    SophiaSharon Larnia: back
    Bleu Oleander: like rl
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bertrum
    Bertrum Resident: ho Sophia
    Archmage Atlantis: Hmm, Eliza.....that is rl also, as others have observed
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i havent seen Wester since i arrived, i guess im not sitting on the same cushion :)
    Bleu Oleander: must get going .... nice to be with everyone this morning :)
    Eliza Madrigal: how odd.... and I didn't see Fef the entire time he was here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :) Thanks and good to see you
    Bleu Oleander: bye all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: have fun
    Archmage Atlantis: Danke

    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if anyone has topics to bring up? Or are we all still dazzled by numbers?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye fore now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza, take care :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Yaku :)
    Bertrum Resident: bye Yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing topical from me :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Well we have a pause approaching, we can refresh and see what arises after :)


    Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, are you on vacation this week?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Has been nice to see you in the mornings
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thx, nice to see you and everyone, and to be here in the morning
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, I wanted to let everyone know that perfect paradise has a presentation on cuba tomorrow morning... 6am. Not sure if topics around sustainability are of interest....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, thx Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: and also not sure what it will be like, but there are so many conflicting reports about Cuba
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what sim is perfect paradise, ive heard it alot over the last several months
    Eliza Madrigal: so always interesting to me
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, let me give you a lm... it is a really lovely sim actually
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i have one or two i beleive
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh :) Well there is a bit of overlap between our two communities lately
    Alfred Kelberry: who prepared the presentation?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh isee
    Eliza Madrigal: they have a sort of similar theme in some ways... that everyone was shipwrecked
    Eliza Madrigal: and has to 'start from scratch'
    Eliza Madrigal: Miralee went to Cuba, so it will be her presentation
    Eliza Madrigal: (sorry for crossed lines)
    Alfred Kelberry: nice
    Alfred Kelberry: when is the opening?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: feels sort of shipwrecked for reals
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and is oddly ok with that lol
    Eliza Madrigal: tomorrow 6am Alf
    Eliza Madrigal: Are you Sharon?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yep
    Alfred Kelberry: thank you
    Alfred Kelberry: i'll try to be there
    Eliza Madrigal: starting from scratch... again and again

    SophiaSharon Larnia: do you ever really start from scatch?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I wonder
    SophiaSharon Larnia: even if you move and get a new job, you have your education
    Eliza Madrigal: many people find themselves doing nothing they intended to do
    SophiaSharon Larnia: carry your experience with you
    Eliza Madrigal: though what they've done before does tend to show up in the work anyway
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods

    Bertrum Resident: Have you found that to be true?
    Bertrum Resident: Not doing what one intends to do?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so, in many ways
    Bertrum Resident: How so?
    Eliza Madrigal: starting from scratch might be more about letting go of former ideas or dreams to allow something surprising?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) i like that so much better than the idea that everything gets scrapped
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: although scraps can make pretty quilts
    Eliza Madrigal: yes they do :)
    Bertrum Resident: What do you mean by something surprising? Would you talk about that?
    Eliza Madrigal: and mosaics made of random fragments which never seemed to have a purpose
    SophiaSharon Larnia thinks of pieces of glass to make a mosiac :)

    Eliza Madrigal: once pema said something pretty interesting... may have been on retreat because I couldn't find the log....
    Eliza Madrigal: (just once, hah, you know what I mean)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))

    Eliza Madrigal: anyway.... what he said was that everything in our life in a sense, can be seen as preparation....


    Eliza Madrigal: anything we do or don't do, every dish cleaned, every phone call, etc. When we 'stop' to directly experience, there is nothing 'wasted' in a sense...
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not articulating well
    Eliza Madrigal: but the feeling was of reading a book backwards and seeing how every string was relevant
    Eliza Madrigal: in an instant                               

                        What I meant to say here, was that 'that instant' is always available, wherever we are...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: you know, i had the feeling that I understood immediately what Pema (and you by saying it) meant, but I cant articulate it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: or what you are preparing for
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: it is 'you' in a sense.... like all that time awakened
    Eliza Madrigal: you're in your life

    Bertrum Resident: You put in the context today as letting go of ideas and dreams. How does that connect with the preparation?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh
    Eliza Madrigal: oh?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: dropping expectations allows you to see whats there, but i cant articulate it, im taking that sentence with me today, thank you :D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) this has helped me too, thanks

    Eliza Madrigal: Bertrum was there something you were thinking of specifically?
    Bertrum Resident: I was just intrigued by your statement: starting from scratch was letting go of ideas and dreams with the possible outcome of something surprising. You also said before that about one finding themself "doing nothing they intended to do." I find those ideas intriguing.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm
    Eliza Madrigal: on a micro level I suppose that's what pausing allows us
    Eliza Madrigal: each time we 'give up' what we have
    Eliza Madrigal: forget even, in a way
    Eliza Madrigal: It is almost like that cliche' by now of 'if you love someone let (them) go?"
    Eliza Madrigal: there seems to be a trust there
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

    SophiaSharon Larnia: may i interupt and ask what one would be preparing for... we talk and hear about enlightenment and waking up - but waking up is just the very first part of the day. You still have to get out of bed and get moving :) Does that have anything to do with what Pema said/meant?

    Eliza Madrigal: I felt that it did very much so....
    Eliza Madrigal: I felt that it meant that everything, every step, was meaningful
    SophiaSharon Larnia: in that sense, waking up is ho hum :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and a miracle at the same time
    Eliza Madrigal: yes completely ordinary :)
    Eliza Madrigal: more ordinary than ordinary
    Bertrum Resident: Eliza, you mention trust. Can you explain what you mean in this context?


    Eliza Madrigal: to be honest I was considering a very particular point in meditation practice Bertrum, but sort of extrapoloating it to the whole picture...
    Eliza Madrigal: that when I first stop, I notice all the goings, and a panic about 'what if I don't___ or how can I best do ___" ...
    Eliza Madrigal: and I have to trust that nothing is more important than that spot / moment I'm in, sort of...
    Eliza Madrigal: nothing more worthwhile
    Eliza Madrigal: that I can really afford to let it all go
    Eliza Madrigal: fall back, in a way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: would love to articulate better, but thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: it is like life then rushes in

    Bertrum Resident: And does that mean to give up what you love as well (to let it go?)? At least for that moment?
    Eliza Madrigal: and I see I never had to keep all the world balanced
    Eliza Madrigal: yes definitely
    Eliza Madrigal: even have to drop PaB when there, hehe :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but not like anyone can hold it... it is silly really, to see how absurd it is to think one is holding things together

    Bertrum Resident: So does this focus eliminating attachments?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems to loosen them.. make room
    Eliza Madrigal: allow laughter... in the earlier session we talked about not taking things (oneself) so seriously... and yet there is a serious devotion
    Eliza Madrigal: we still do our best, whole heartedly

    SophiaSharon Larnia: have to go, thanks Eliza and Bertrum, bye for now (and Boxy :) )
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Arch
    Bertrum Resident: By Sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)) Thanks for coming today
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)) have fun
    Eliza Madrigal: strange to be sitting here with 'away' boxy, a wester no one else sees, and I think Arch may be away too, hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: :))

    Bertrum Resident: So there is that duality then in eliminating attachements but on the other hand doing out best whole heartedly to them?

    Eliza Madrigal: mmm
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! that's interesting....
    Bertrum Resident: sorry for the typos
    Eliza Madrigal: not at all (re the typos)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes on the one hand we are seeing that everything is connected in a sense... that what we do each moment matters
    Eliza Madrigal: and on the other hand, we are accepting that nothing is connected in any way, sort of...

    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, say more if you would?

                       I didn't read these lines from Bertrum until posting the log, due to lag I guess...

    Bertrum Resident: That duality creates a paradox--at least for me. Everything matters and is consequential and nothing matters is of no consequence. We build our lives around what matters (on on levels) and yet nothing matters. We are connected to everyone and to no one,

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Rayah!
    Eliza Madrigal: Great to see you
    Eliza Madrigal: (I'm lagging a bit this morning but Bert and I have been discusing releasing attachments)
    Rayah Slade: hello sorry..
    Rayah Slade: ahh
    Rayah Slade: please carry on .. I'll catch up
    Eliza Madrigal: :))not at all, great jacket
    Rayah Slade: thanks

    Eliza Madrigal: every thing has its own context, is sort of what I feel, that it brings with it...
    Eliza Madrigal: then there is the underlying 'no context' which seems 'home' in a way. Here is the restful spot. :) From the view of that home window, nothing is attached in any weighty way
    Eliza Madrigal: and that's why we can enjoy it all
    Bertrum Resident: Do we enjoy it all?
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe not
    Eliza Madrigal: but maybe we can, if we don't think we know what that means
    Eliza Madrigal: ie 'this is what joy looks like'
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure at all of course... so hard to articulate these things
    Eliza Madrigal: like, why is it a good idea to 'drop everything' several times a day?

    Eliza Madrigal: Btw, Rayah, I think you know but we record everything here :) I need to tell you that
    Eliza Madrigal: everything goes on the wiki, including the time book we've been discussing most fridays for wow, quite a while now
    Eliza Madrigal: I think today was supposed to be a prim workshop
    Eliza Madrigal: but not sure... sun and alfred seem occupied with other things :)
    Bertrum Resident: Yes, and the session is overtime. Thank you for the conversation!
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks to you Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: your questions are very helpful
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to go momentarily also... filled in for Luci today but have been here for quite a while now
    Bertrum Resident: Bye, everyone.


    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bertrum
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon, we're just wrapping up a few hours ...
    Zon Kwan: hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you but have to go :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And I don't think Arch is actually here
    Eliza Madrigal: @@
    Zon Kwan: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now :)

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