Page last modified 20:46, 3 Jun 2011 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian for this session.*

Wol Euler: hello zon

Zon Kwan: hi wol

Wol Euler: how are you?

Zon Kwan: and good morning

Wol Euler: indeed

Wol Euler: this is late for you, or very early

Zon Kwan: almost midday

Wol Euler: hello pema

Zon Kwan: hi pema

Wol Euler: oh, really? sorry, I thought you were an American :)

Pema Pera: Hi Wol, and hi Zon, long time no see!

Zon Kwan: thank you

Pema Pera: shall we pick a topic? any burning question, or perhaps a burning answer? :-)

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: burning answers sound dangerous

Pema Pera: :-)

Wol Euler: I suspect we have had too many of those in the past

Pema Pera: you may be right there . . .

Zon Kwan: hm..thinks a burning question

Wol Euler: "why would people rather kill the calf and eat well today, then let it grow to a cow and breed it and so eat well for the rest of their lives?"

Wol Euler: whence this relentless short-term-ism?

Pema Pera: good question :)

Pema Pera: myopia?

Zon Kwan: greed ?

Pema Pera: or fear that someone else will kill their calf in the mean time?

Wol Euler: perhaps it's instinctual, from times hundreds of thousands of years ago when resources were scarce, because little children are that way too

Wol Euler: right, if you have grounds to believe that the tiger will eat the calf, then it's sensible for you to do so first

Zon Kwan: the fear of limited resourcess

Wol Euler: but the tigers we face are *all* of our own making

Pema Pera: so what shall we do about our tigers?

Wol Euler: look at them closely, and see that they are only ourselves at our worst

Wol Euler: oh, let me enter a quote from a buddy of mine...

Pema Pera: Hi Yaku!

Zon Kwan: yaku

Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyon

Wol Euler: hello yaku

Wol Euler: "**When I was younger I thought that the problem with the world was that other people weren't like me. I date my adulthood from the moment when I realized that the problem is that other people are, in fact, exactly like me.**"

Wol Euler grins.

Pema Pera: :-)

Zon Kwan: nods..same basically

Pema Pera: and then the question is, how fluid are both of those identities . . .

Zon Kwan: but with an urge to be different

Pema Pera: ah, here is a quote, I don't remember from whom: **we tend to judge ourselves by our intentions, and others by their actions**

Wol Euler: yes! damn, that is so true

Zon Kwan: perhaps cause we project

Zon Kwan: our secret intentions to other actions

Pema Pera: ah, yes!

Zon Kwan: others

Wol Euler nods.

Pema Pera: thickening the plot even more . . .

Zon Kwan: and making us loose ourself on life drama

--BELL--

Wol Euler: [01:12] Pema Pera: and then the question is, how fluid are both of those identities . . .

Zon Kwan: yes

Zon Kwan: focus shifting..

Wol Euler: it's certainly harder to be contemptuous of others when you recognize your kinship (not impossible, but harder)

Pema Pera: discovering the potential for all kind of foolish things in ourselves as well as others, can make us humble, and also can make us realize that neither side has to actualize that potential

Pema Pera: and in fact, when and only when both sides acknowledge that, they can join hands and work on it :-)

Wol Euler nods.

Pema Pera: (as we are now doing :>)

Wol Euler: perhaps the key is this urge to *tribalism* that we seem to have, the apparent need to identify small groups of "us" and to exclude the rest

Zon Kwan: nods... we tend to identify ourselves to various things

Pema Pera: yes, outside ourselves, and perhaps each of us also inside . . . denying some parts of us that don't fit in with the tribal self

Wol Euler: which comes up in all kinds of places, the way that four random strangers who came together by chance at a table for six, will sometimes defend that table against a fifth random person who's looking for a seat

Wol Euler: (saw recently in a museum cafe)

Pema Pera: :-)

Zon Kwan: now my burning question: why do we need to identify

Wol Euler: yes, joining the tribe means suppresssing lots of aspects of ourselves

Yakuzza Lethecus: i think partly it´s important to have ,,a tribe" but the issue is not to forget why we need one, to to explore our thoughts in other minds of a community which is harder in a group of random ppl still when it comes to appreaciation of what is and kindness then we all should be the same

Wol Euler nods.

Pema Pera: yes, we can have both

Pema Pera: appreciating diversity and yet appreciating similarity too in values

Wol Euler: the problem isn't "tribe" but "only our tribe is right and good"

Pema Pera nods

Pema Pera: Zon: good question -- concern, perhaps, for our safety?

Zon Kwan: the idea of identifying to some parts of reality

Pema Pera: a biological urge to survive, by trying what seems to work?

Zon Kwan: and excluding ohers

Pema Pera: in itself a good strategy

Pema Pera: safer to walk through a door than through a window, say :)

Pema Pera: like with the tribe situation, rigid identification is the problem, not the identity itself

Pema Pera: I like the identity of doors as doors and am glad I can recognize those

Zon Kwan: but the process of identication is waht interets me

Pema Pera: in what way, Zon?

Zon Kwan: in zen it is thought

Zon Kwan: there is no me really

Zon Kwan: i just identify

Zon Kwan: to some parts

Pema Pera: hi Sun!

Zon Kwan: of reality

Zon Kwan: and cal it me

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: hi Pema ;) Yaku, Zon

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sun

Sunshine Vayandar: and Woly ;)

Wol Euler: hello sun!

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Pema Pera: that's a very complex question, Zon, about self and no-self . . . how do you experience that personally, when you struggle with that?

Zon Kwan: hi sun

Zon Kwan: i lately

Zon Kwan: have begun

Zon Kwan: to see me thinking

Zon Kwan: and noting

Zon Kwan: that there he is

Zon Kwan: thinking

Zon Kwan: again

Pema Pera: :-)

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Zon Kwan: but what is he

Wol Euler: :)

Zon Kwan: a thought himself ?

Zon Kwan: or a localized point

Zon Kwan: of one whole

Zon Kwan: not really

Zon Kwan: being separete

Zon Kwan: just thinking to be

Zon Kwan: perhaps this is the shifting Pema mantioned

Pema Pera: thank you for an inspiring way of recounting your experiences, Zon!

Wol Euler nods.

Pema Pera: it sounds so simple, and it really is simple, once we catch on

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Pema Pera: -- and then we let it slip away again :-)

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: like the monkey mind during meditation

Pema Pera: talking of which, it's time for me to slip away too . . . .

Wol Euler: bye pema, bon appetit

Pema Pera: nice meeting y'all here again!

Sunshine Vayandar: nice to see you Pema

Pema Pera: recht herzlichen dank, Wol !

Sunshine Vayandar: have a great day ;)

Wol Euler smiles.

Pema Pera: bye everybody!

Sunshine Vayandar: bye

Yakuzza Lethecus: bye

Sunshine Vayandar: that sounds familiar Zon - I also notice myself thinking ...

Sunshine Vayandar: it's like a bell rings ... "too much thinking" hehe

Zon Kwan: yes

Sunshine Vayandar: I also notice - others doing the same

Zon Kwan: and when i do..its like a burden is lift of

Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)

Zon Kwan: let him think

Wol Euler nods.

Zon Kwan: i watch

Sunshine Vayandar: it's like sometimes I notice others going into the "forest of thoughts"

Sunshine Vayandar: completely lost

--BELL--

Zon Kwan: nods..then they get sucked into the drama

Sunshine Vayandar: yes it gets emotional

Zon Kwan: and can draw you into it too

Zon Kwan: and there we go again

Zon Kwan: lol

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: drama after drama hehe

Zon Kwan: nods

Sunshine Vayandar: so these day I often seem to be standing outside the drama ...

Sunshine Vayandar: and those inside it - think - "she is strange"

Zon Kwan: yes but the trick is i think

Zon Kwan: to be in drama

Zon Kwan: knowing it

Zon Kwan: not outsied

Zon Kwan: inside

Zon Kwan: enjoying

Sunshine Vayandar: to be in the drama?

Zon Kwan: and realising

Zon Kwan: the transitional nature

Zon Kwan: of it

Zon Kwan: to be in the world

Zon Kwan: but not of it

Zon Kwan: as jesus put it

Zon Kwan: not to be out of it

Sunshine Vayandar: in the world but not of it ...

Zon Kwan: i htink its zen too

Zon Kwan: carry water

Wol Euler smiles.

Sunshine Vayandar: can you explain more Zon

Zon Kwan: or relise water is beeing carried

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Sunshine Vayandar ponders about the above

Zon Kwan: if i could..i would

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: everyone seems to be pondering ;)

Wol Euler: sm

Wol Euler smiles.

Sunshine Vayandar: hope your saturday is great so far ;)

Wol Euler: pab, coffee, music ... pretty good :)

Sunshine Vayandar: here too

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqqWfsIxbPo

Wol Euler: "not available in my country" well, fuck you too, Sony.

Sunshine Vayandar: grrr

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ;(

Wol Euler: Sony has gone from being my musical-hardware manufacturer of choice, to being the dickheads who won't let me listen to music. Great work, guys.

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm is there a way to go around it

Sunshine Vayandar: I get that message too sometimes

Sunshine Vayandar: http://playingforchange.com/episodes...e_Little_Birds

Sunshine Vayandar: may be here it works

Wol Euler: ah! that works! heheheheh

Wol Euler: ty

Sunshine Vayandar: yohooooo

Sunshine Vayandar: Bob Marley song

Sunshine Vayandar: what are you listening to Wol

Wol Euler: that, right now :) before it, Portishead "Third"

Sunshine Vayandar: on youtube?

Sunshine Vayandar: oh Yaku disappeared

Wol Euler: on cd

Wol Euler: on a sony player, grrrrr

Sunshine Vayandar: hehe

Sunshine Vayandar: I found it on utube

Wol Euler: cool

Sunshine Vayandar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dfpSUPEwpI

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Wol Euler: wb

Yakuzza Lethecus: thx

Wol Euler: "not available in your country"

Wol Euler: dickheads.

Sunshine Vayandar: wb ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: really Wol

Yakuzza Lethecus: there is a little tool called hotspot shield

Yakuzza Lethecus: with that you gain an american ip adress

Wol Euler: ah :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: works at least for this or for going shopping in dollars :)

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: come to africa wol ;) u can watch it

Wol Euler: heheheh

Sunshine Vayandar: ;p

Sunshine Vayandar: listening to Portishead

Zon Kwan: are u from africa sunshine ?

Sunshine Vayandar: yes and no ;)

Wol Euler smiles.

Sunshine Vayandar: from Hungary - came to africa in 97

Sunshine Vayandar: afro-hungarian

Sunshine Vayandar: hungaro-african ;p

Zon Kwan: cool :)

Sunshine Vayandar: where are you from Zon

Zon Kwan: north europe

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Yakuzza Lethecus: norway, finnland or sweden ?

Zon Kwan: yes

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

Sunshine Vayandar: ty for the morning chat guys and the music ;)

Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee for now

Zon Kwan: me too go must

Zon Kwan: see ya

Sunshine Vayandar: take care all

Wol Euler: bye sun, bye zon

Wol Euler: enjoy the day

Sunshine Vayandar: u2

Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: I should head out too, I have shopping to do before it rains again

Wol Euler: enjoy the day, yaku

Yakuzza Lethecus: bye wol

Wol Euler: bye!

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