2011.05.29 01:00 - Openness and vulnerability, and nerdiness and loss

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session. When Rhi arrived she was standing outside the range of the Listener, which I didn't notice for some time. I've interpolated her remarks from my own chatlog for clarity, and coloured them for reconstructibility.

     

    Wol Euler: good morning, sam
    oO0Oo Resident: :) Wol
    Wol Euler: how are you today?
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm... considering
    Wol Euler lays her head to one side, smiles and waits.
    oO0Oo Resident smiles and feels...
    oO0Oo Resident: life is very workable
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: an interesting statement, capable of many interpretations
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehe
    oO0Oo Resident: guess I just thought of a funny one when you said that
    Wol Euler: :)


    --BELL--


    Wol Euler: hello roger
    Roger Ormenthal: Hi
    Wol Euler: your name seems familiar, have you been here before?
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Roger.. welcome
    Roger Ormenthal: Yes
    Roger Ormenthal: Earlier tonight, at 7P.
    Wol Euler: okay, so you have the notecard and know about the recording :) good
    Roger Ormenthal: y
    oO0Oo Resident: why the recording Roger?
    oO0Oo Resident: or?
    Roger Ormenthal: Not sure what you mean. I know the sessions are recorded here.
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure either :)
    oO0Oo Resident: wondered about the meaning of the singular 'y'
    Roger Ormenthal: Just shortcut for yes
    oO0Oo Resident: ty.. got it
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Roger Ormenthal: Sorry to be so binary.
    Wol Euler: I infer that Roger is a gamer :) such shortcuts are common in gaming conversations
    Wol Euler: much more so than here
    Roger Ormenthal: Not a gamer!
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    oO0Oo Resident: ducks in order.. world peace bound to follow shortly ;)
    Wol Euler: sorrry :)
    Roger Ormenthal: np
    Wol Euler: well, have a seat if you wish, doesn't cost a whole lot extra
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: does anyone have a topic for today?
    Roger Ormenthal: I'm open to anything.
    oO0Oo Resident: open to openness too
    Wol Euler: a good state of mind
    Wol Euler: shall we talk about being open, then?
    Wol Euler: how to get there, how to stay there?
    Roger Ormenthal: OK with me.
    Wol Euler: because there are times when it seems to me much harder tahn others
    oO0Oo Resident: how does openness know we are there?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: You always have a choice
    oO0Oo Resident: I choose to say HELLO Rhi
    Roger Ormenthal: Openness must balance with boundaries and trust.
    oO0Oo Resident smiles
    Rhiannon Dragoone: 000, and I thought you never would. ty
    Wol Euler: hello rhi :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Roger, openesd doesn't mean vulnerability
    Wol Euler: say more, rhi?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Would you guys have even noticed me if I hadn't said anything?  lol
    Qt Core: Hi Rhia
    Wol Euler: hello qt
    Roger Ormenthal: We can assign many meanings to openness. Do you wish to discuss open-mindedness?
    oO0Oo Resident: openness *with* notion of boundaries may suggest vulnerability perhaps
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Wol Euler: we're talking about openness, being open, vulnerability ...
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Qt.. gtsy
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, to me openness simply means not precluding anything.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Not prejudging
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Doesn't mean you are trusting
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I guess I was thinking of open mindedness
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Roger

    Roger Ormenthal: It's just a word, we can add qualifiers to differentiate open mindedness, open to trusting and to what degree is appropriate in different situations, open to revealing one's personal details to others, etc.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: open to new experiences, as well.
    Wol Euler: I think I see where Roger is coming from with vulnerability and trust, though: openness expects that all will go well
    Wol Euler: or actively hopes, or presumes
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, IR that can handle the negative when it happens

     

    --BELL--


    Rhiannon Dragoone: One can walk in a gang neighborhood and not be trusting but open, but ready
    Roger Ormenthal: It's our nature to want to trust, to connect. But we have to protect boundaries too, or risk being damaged. I guess to avoid being hurt, we vest trust incrementally as worthiness is demonstrated. People get hurt when they trust too quickly.
    Roger Ormenthal: (too quickly - and when the second party takes advantage in some way)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Right.  But boundaries doesn't necessarily mean you're not open
    Wol Euler: okay, but my feeling is that trust and openness are different things
    Wol Euler: trust is between two people, one can be open while alone
    Wol Euler: (thinking out loud, feel free to add or disagree)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I agree, Wolf. one can be open but not trusting
    Roger Ormenthal: All valid points.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: and not necessarily expecting only good things; just confidential one can handle bad things, if they occur.
    Roger Ormenthal: Betrayal is the worst, when trust is violated completely. A cheating spouse, for example.
    Roger Ormenthal: (To clarify, the worst feeling.)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It would be very hard This be open after That
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I wasn't open to relationships with men until over a decade from my father's raping me
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Roger Ormenthal: I am so sorry to hear of that violation Rhiannon.
    Wol Euler: that's hard, rhi, I'm sorry to hear it
    Wol Euler: rhi, can you move a little closer to us? I think you are out of range of the listener
    Rhiannon Dragoone: It's beginning to be a long time ago.  Thanks.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: no. I'm on my phone.
    Wol Euler: ok, I'll try to push you closer :)
    Roger Ormenthal: You are welcome to take a seat with us Rhi, by the way.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: but you might be able to tp ne next to you
    Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks, Roger. Can't do that
    Wol Euler: there :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: great!
    Rhiannon Dragoone: an I facing the group?
    Wol Euler: yep
    Roger Ormenthal: Trust after any betrayal is very hard, because we second guess our ability to evaluate someone correctly. But we must be brave and learn and move forward.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: good.
    Wol Euler: but not in the fountain:)
    Wol Euler nods to Roger
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Sorry I can't sit, Roger.
    Roger Ormenthal: OK
    Rhiannon Dragoone: laughs Re fountain
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I dud think if coming as an alt with a collar who can be forced to sit
    oO0Oo Resident: hi observerm
    oO0Oo Resident wonders if PaB could win a nobel prize for peace someday
    Rhiannon Dragoone: oh. My point was that although it took me fourteen years, I can trust myself to handle men, si I'm open to them now.
    Roger Ormenthal: Glad that you could move forward.
    Roger Ormenthal: Animals are quick to trust, but just as injured if they are let down.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But you don't have to trust to be open. Just believe in yourself.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Right. Roger. You must learn to trust your judgment.
    Roger Ormenthal: Being open carries the risk of criticism by others. But if you are secure in yourself, unwarranted criticism would have little impact. If it is warranted, then we can take it to heart.
    Wol Euler nods.


    --BELL--


    Rhiannon Dragoone: agrees
    Wol Euler: qt, you are very quiet. What do you think?
    Qt Core: i'm thinking about my father death, more than 25 years ago and how close i became after that, almost feeling betrayed by him, just when as an early teen i started tinking about him as not a semigod (as kids do) but as a person to start a relationship/friedship
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    Wol Euler: betrayed because he "left you" by dying?
    Qt Core: yes
    Qt Core: (still not really re-opened up)
    Wol Euler nods.
    Qt Core: (had some other issues in those years too)
    Roger Ormenthal: Qt, do you think he abandoned you intentionally, and that is why you were angry? Or were you just angry at the universe for taking hm?
    Qt Core: no, not angry, only hurt
    Roger Ormenthal: Apologies - I mean betrayed, not angry.
    Qt Core: so the simplest of the choices, not getting so attached to anyone again
    Wol Euler nods.
    Roger Ormenthal: Do you think he left you by choice?
    Qt Core: obviously not
    Roger Ormenthal: Yet betrayal implies a conscious act by someone.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Again, trusting yourself. Can you handle betrayal or loss. Trust and courageous
    Roger Ormenthal: If he did not leave by choice, did you more feel that somehow you were betrayed by life?
    Roger Ormenthal: Or maybe betrayed by God?
    Wol Euler: ((just in case: qt, there is no obligation for you to answer :) if this is too painful, we can move on))
    Qt Core: don't know if i was only rationalizing it then (or even now) but i put most of the fault on me than on him or the universe or god
    Roger Ormenthal: Yes, no obligation. Sometimes explorations can help heal though.
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Qt Core: thinking that being less open it wouldn't be painful
    Roger Ormenthal: Children often assign blame to themselves, unreasonably, like in a divorce, because they think that adults are perfect, so the fault must lie with themselves.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah. Easy to close yourself so you cant get hurt
    Qt Core: and that plus a big dose of nerdiness and fat explain why i'm still single ;-)
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Roger Ormenthal: Some woman love well-nourished nerds.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Paradise


    --BELL--


    Wol Euler: let me introduce you to Torley Linden :) also a self-described fat nerdy closed-off guy, who met a woman in SL and married her in RL :)
    Qt Core: yes, but his last name add so many coolness point ...
    Wol Euler: he wasn't born a linden :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles, waves and listens
    Wol Euler: hello paradise
    Wol Euler: and his coolness comes I think in large measure from being totally okay with his nerdiness
    Qt Core: hi paradise
    Wol Euler: makes him comfortable being odd
    Paradise Tennant: hiya wol, rhi , qt, O, Roger :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Paradise :) Welcome
    Roger Ormenthal: I am a nerd Qt. Nerds are cool. And I could lose a few pounds too.
    Qt Core: i'm ok with it too, how i wll spend all the free time i had being closed if not adding to my nerdiness
    Wol Euler: pretty much by definition, anyone you meet in SL who will sit still and talk to you is a nerd :)
    Wol Euler: that's one of its joys and attractions
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I've gained twenty ponds since I quit stripping and an very Happy, thank you very much.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: happy is good :)
    Wol Euler: happy is good. Happy is more attractive than skinny IMHO
    oO0Oo Resident is glad when people are happy
    Wol Euler: skinny and sour-bitch is a poor combination
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Wolf So true. Skinny with plastic smile was more it
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: (paradise, we are talking about openness and vulnerability, and nerdiness and loss)
    Paradise Tennant: things everyone has in common :)
    Wol Euler: yep
    Qt Core: often the only open things nerd likes is open-source ;-) (this one is bad, i know)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But I felt hungry afk the time. Hungry and cold. (And no cracks; its cold working naked when the temp is 65F all year round.)
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: *all
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Wol Euler infers that Rhi's phone is autocompleting, and grins
    Rhiannon Dragoone: open source? ::groans::
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Gee. How can you tell, Wolf? LOL
    Wol Euler: the thing about openness, in my experience, is that it is self-reinforcing (like many good habits)
    Wol Euler: well, your consistently calling me "wolf" is one clue.
    Wol Euler: :-PPPP
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I agree, Wol. But you give AB example?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: laughs
    Wol Euler: being open brings good experiences (again, in my experience) and so one is more likely to try it again
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. you are more yourself .. and less constrained by fear :)
    Qt Core: yes, you just have to go past the "but"s your memory come up with
    Paradise Tennant: by inhibition
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: I've found SL a great help there. SL taught me to talk to strangers
    Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah. Beware if the "buts "
    Paradise Tennant: and really if the world cannot appreciate you as you are then you need to create a new world :)
    Wol Euler: and you know, it works. Really well. Even/especially in RL
    Qt Core: yes, it does ;-)
    Wol Euler: teh great big secret of life is that other people are just as hungry for contact and recognition and a touch of warmth, as you are
    oO0Oo Resident smiles
    oO0Oo Resident: a string of reinforcing truths
    Wol Euler: if you offer them that, they are SO happy
    Wol Euler is getting maudlin :)
    Paradise Tennant: hands her a tissue :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Qt Core: have you ever tried to smile while letting people pass on a pedestrian crossing while you are driving ? :-)
    Wol Euler: does it go against the grain?
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Wol. SL helped me be more open tp men. Found a few who could see past NY boobs here.


    --BELL--


    Paradise Tennant: hello reduction welcome :)
    Qt Core: i have to go, bye all
    Wol Euler: bye qt, hello red
    Wol Euler: have you been here before?
    Paradise Tennant: take care qt big wave :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Qt! ::waves:: tc
    Rhiannon Dragoone: bye qt
    Wol Euler: red, have you been here before?
    oO0Oo Resident: G'day Red
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Paradise. It's easier to create a new world here in SL, but the skills transfer This RL
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hello observerm good to see you .. would you like to join us on the cushions :))
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Wol Euler: obs never joins in :) he observes
    Paradise Tennant: think we each create our world :) every day :)
    Wol Euler: well, red seems to be away so I'll anonymize him in the log
    Wol Euler: (reminder to myself:)
    Wol Euler nods to Paradise. True!
    Roger Ormenthal: I agree Paradise, we create our own world, our own personal reality, every moment.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: You have to fight others constantly to do that though.
    Wol Euler: oh, my experience has been quite different (touch wood)
    Wol Euler: I've only really had to fight myself
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Sartre was right that although You nay be free, others limit your freedom.
    Wol Euler ponders.
    Paradise Tennant: hmm not sure I agree with sartre :) I think the only being capable of limiting your true freedom which is the control of your mind is oneself :)
    Paradise Tennant: unless we are talking extremes
    Wol Euler nods.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Try living on the streets when you're 12 And then tell me That. i agree that you can fight, but You aren't exactly free, either.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: They won't let You have a regular job, so You do What You have to do.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: But maybe You're Right. You do have choices, and you can fight rhem
    Rhiannon Dragoone: *them
    Wol Euler nods.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm Not saying that you Don't have control, only that others do limit you.
    Roger Ormenthal: Our reality is a combination of our personal reality and the concensus reality. It takes a lot to push up against the concensus reality, but it's possible. Maybe that's what "pusing the envelope" is all about.
    Wol Euler ponders
    Roger Ormenthal: (pushing the envelope)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I can see that, Roger
    Roger Ormenthal: But sometime tough times, are just tough times. But we can prevail, as you have.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: You have To push against the consensus as to who you are
    Paradise Tennant: yes rhi ;)
    Paradise Tennant: they do not know who you are so it is easy :) always easy to fight noninformation with understanding
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Not believe You're only good for one thing, And even if you were, What's bad about That / It's you.
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Rhiannon Dragoone: hi, zon
    Zon Kwan: hi there
    Paradise Tennant: hiya zon :)
    oO0Oo Resident: hey Zon :)


    --BELL--


    Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, Paradise
    Rhiannon Dragoone: They Don't know who you are, And Don't care to learn
    Rhiannon Dragoone: So fuck 'em.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Sorry. This is touching upon some bad memories.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Paradise Tennant: gives rhi a hug :)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I should have gone with NY auto fill--so duck 'em lol
    Rhiannon Dragoone: smiles at Paradise
    Roger Ormenthal: Congrats on your Ph.D. Rhiannon. Wish I could read some of your SF.
    Wol Euler: (sorry, being distracted by RL)
    Rhiannon Dragoone: Thanks, Roger. ::sniffs:: And I work shop it at www.thenextbigwriter.com under Rhiannon
    Roger Ormenthal: Great - I will certainly take a long look. Thanks.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: it won't be the mist polished but I would enjoy you reading it
    Rhiannon Dragoone: I need to go. It's getting late for me.
    Wol Euler nods. THank you, Rhi
    Wol Euler: sleep well
    Rhiannon Dragoone: u too
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite rhi take care :)
    oO0Oo Resident: gtsy Rhi.. thanks for your contributions
    Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams
    Rhiannon Dragoone: bye, red, para, zon
    Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks ooo
    Zon Kwan: bye rhi
    Roger Ormenthal: Goodnight Rhi. I have that website up now and have found your work.
    Rhiannon Dragoone: great. Roger. wrote a review. tell ne what You think
    Rhiannon Dragoone: bye!
    Wol Euler: I should move on too, I have an appointment at 2:30
    Wol Euler: this was a great conversation, thank you all
    Wol Euler: please continue, I've claimed the log
    Paradise Tennant: take care wol :))
    oO0Oo Resident: thanks Wol.. ntsy as always
    Paradise Tennant: have a great day :))
    Paradise Tennant: openess, vulnerability , nerdiness and loss .. really rangy kind of topics that so much fit in


    --BELL--


    oO0Oo Resident: agreed Para.. funny how so many things can be accomodated and link
    Zon Kwan: nods...syncronicity
    oO0Oo Resident smiles....
    Roger Ormenthal: Goodnight (morning) everyone.
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite roger :)
    oO0Oo Resident: pleasure spending this time together Roger :)
    Zon Kwan: nite R
    Paradise Tennant: zon was reading a book you would like don farber's portrats of tibetan buddhist masters :) it has there pictures and a short 3 paragraph quote from each :)
    Zon Kwan: i take that down
    oO0Oo Resident: any of the quotes stand out for you Para?
    Zon Kwan: can u find it on the net ?
    Paradise Tennant: yes my favourite is by dongsar rinpoche
    Zon Kwan: why
    Paradise Tennant: I will type it for you it is a couple of paragraphs
    Zon Kwan: please:)
    oO0Oo Resident: [here's a link Zon]: http://is.gd/GyWOcd
    Zon Kwan: got it ty:)
    Paradise Tennant: Just suppose we have been born in a cinema hall. We do not know that what is going on in front of us is just a projection. Everything we see on that screen love hate violence suspense thrills is in fact just the effect of light projected through celluloid.
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: and we identify
    Zon Kwan: to those
    Zon Kwan: pictures


    --BELL--


    Paradise Tennant: But no one ever told us this so we just sit there watching fixated on the film :)
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Zon Kwan: until
    Zon Kwan: we get bored
    Zon Kwan: then we rise
    Zon Kwan: a exit
    Zon Kwan: and exit the theathre
    Zon Kwan: or
    Zon Kwan: watch
    Zon Kwan: another movie
    Paradise Tennant: maybe knowing it is a movie :)
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Zon Kwan: and maybe
    Zon Kwan: we make it
    Zon Kwan: while watching
    Zon Kwan: and enjoy more
    oO0Oo Resident: :) Zon, Paradise.. thank you for all you do to allow the heart of us all shine through
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at O
    Paradise Tennant: well shall we wind down with a a short meditation O or poem go round or are you sleepy too :)
    oO0Oo Resident: hehehe.. I'm happy either way Para..
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Paradise Tennant: let's do a poem we have not done one in a long time :)
    oO0Oo Resident: kk
    oO0Oo Resident: open to that
    Paradise Tennant: would you like to start ?
    oO0Oo Resident: sure.. here goes:
    oO0Oo Resident: .
    oO0Oo Resident: open to that
    Paradise Tennant: smiles :))
    oO0Oo Resident: ;))
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: she said, nodding , understanding
    oO0Oo Resident: seated in near slumber with dignity
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    oO0Oo Resident: tennis balls under the bed
    Paradise Tennant: that all things must end :)
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    oO0Oo Resident: wuff and rufff


    --BELL--


    Paradise Tennant: smiles he is sound asleep after waking me up at 4.30 am :) all ajumble of paws, ears :)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    oO0Oo Resident: awww
    Paradise Tennant: smiles think I will say good morning to you .. :) see if I can catch a couple of more hours of sleep :)
    Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams O
    oO0Oo Resident: may they be refreshing, full of wondrous dreams
    oO0Oo Resident: gtsy
    Paradise Tennant: yes and to you :) may your dreams be full :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles gtsy too:) namaste my friend :)
    oO0Oo Resident: namaste

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