2011.06.05 13:00 - Beyond our silences and our identities

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    The session began a bit slowly, that is will plenty of silence,where sitting together is so restful,  and then the session evolved toward discussion of identities, including gender issues, SL avis, and more,  which became so lively as to run into a 90 sec pause...By the time I had to leave the discussion seemed to be in full gear. 

    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Maxine Walden: hi, Susan
    Maxine Walden: sorry, I did not see you for a moment, was taking the log...
    Maxine Walden: :)
    iwandertoo Resident: no worries
    iwandertoo Resident: how are you?
    Maxine Walden: how are you?
    Maxine Walden: :))
    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    Maxine Walden: same question both ways
    iwandertoo Resident: smiling here...bit tired...but smiling
    Maxine Walden: I am fine, enjoying a Sunday afternoon...
    Maxine Walden: sometimes just resting in the silence together feels very nice
    iwandertoo Resident: yes
    iwandertoo Resident: true
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wol
    Wol Euler: hello maxine, susan
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Maxine Walden: wol, another striking outfit!
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: thank you :)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    iwandertoo Resident: it is
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Maxine Walden: I like your colorful dress too, susan.
    iwandertoo Resident: ty
    Maxine Walden: Looks so summery which is so welcome, in my part of the world at least
    Wol Euler nods. Yes, very nice; very summery
    iwandertoo Resident: sun had these funky pants i wanted...went crazy in the store
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    iwandertoo Resident: yes
    iwandertoo Resident: it's called Hobo something
    iwandertoo Resident: "BoHo HoBo"
    Maxine Walden: catchy name
    Wol Euler: phone
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Maxine Walden: Susan, I think you mentioned being interested in the RL retreat in Seattle this Sept?
    iwandertoo Resident: i wont be able to make it
    iwandertoo Resident: i dont think
    iwandertoo Resident: definitely not July
    iwandertoo Resident: september i need a couple of more weeks
    iwandertoo Resident: (new job...not possible for July)
    Maxine Walden: ah, OK. Sure, these take planning...
    iwandertoo Resident: wish i could
    Maxine Walden: yes, wish you could as well. :)
    iwandertoo Resident: ty
    Maxine Walden: Feeling into the silence...it can evolve in so many directions...
    milakel Resident: hi :)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    milakel Resident: woly girl :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, milakel
    milakel Resident: ah, woly, you're grey to me again :(
    Maxine Walden: Wol has been called to the phone I think
    milakel Resident: a long phone call :)
    Maxine Walden: hmm
    iwandertoo Resident: might be...
    Maxine Walden: I was writing to Milakel because I had not recognized her, just to make sure she is OKwith the chatlog :)
    milakel Resident: um, me and maxine touched on "identity" in a private chat. we'd like to bring this topic here :)
    Maxine Walden: please, Milakel
    milakel Resident: and i'd like to say again how much i look forward for woly's identity workshop :)
    Maxine Walden: (wonderingif Woly is feeling nudged)
    Maxine Walden: But maybe milakel, would you like to say some things about identity right now?
    milakel Resident: i think it's interesting, on its own and as a self-awareness, how we relate to our identities. and given this sl media we have a new dimension to explore it.
    Maxine Walden: nods
    Maxine Walden: Care to share your experience, milakel, re identities?
    Maxine Walden: hi, Zen!
    milakel Resident: zen :)
    Zen Arado: Hi all :)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    milakel Resident: *thinks on maxine's question*
    Zen Arado: you haven't been in SL long Mila
    Maxine Walden: Zen, we have been sharing the silence and then recently Milakel has raised her interest in the experience of different identities perhaps especially available in SL
    milakel Resident: no, a new resident, zen :)
    Zen Arado: welcome :)
    milakel Resident: thank you :)
    Zen Arado: YW :)
    Zen Arado: different identities?
    milakel Resident: or maybe it's the same identity in various contexts which is being perceived separately :)
    Maxine Walden: sounds a bit mysterious, Milakel
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Zen Arado: I think we take on different identities in RL too
    Zen Arado: don't think there is any 'real' one
    Zen Arado: I find gender is just a role
    Zen Arado: surprisingly
    milakel Resident: well, it is, and with a huge impact :)
    iwandertoo Resident: a role?
    Zen Arado: yes it isn't really me
    Zen Arado: just somethng I play out
    Maxine Walden: that is interesting to hear, Zen
    Wol Euler: bck, reading
    Maxine Walden: wb, Wol
    Zen Arado: wb Wol
    Wol Euler: ty
    milakel Resident: btw, one canadian couple decided to raise their kid gender neutral and let him choose who to be on his own
    Maxine Walden: and what happened?
    Zen Arado: don't see how you can do that
    Zen Arado: even if the parents decide the rest of society will make hum be a boy if he has a willy
    Wol Euler: perhaps that is the point
    iwandertoo Resident: he is a boy
    iwandertoo Resident: (if it is a son)
    Wol Euler: says who? :)
    iwandertoo Resident: his dna
    iwandertoo Resident: sorry...the dna
    milakel Resident: http://bit.ly/mNcCjO
    Wol Euler: there is a percentage of babies born every year with indeterminate or intermediate genital forms
    Wol Euler: perhaps this child is one of them?
    iwandertoo Resident: the dna says this as well, Mila
    Wol Euler: it's news to me that DNA was gender identifyable
    iwandertoo Resident: what definition of gender are we using?
    Zen Arado: that's just sexual orientation though - which is hardwired of course
    Wol Euler: no, it's physical
    Wol Euler: anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to start riding hobbyhorses
    milakel Resident: dna killed the bell :)
    Zen Arado: I am happy to be proved wrong
    Maxine Walden: :)) we seem to have things to say about this topic...so into the pause...
    Zen Arado: I first read this in Nisargadatta
    Wol Euler: http://intersexroadshow.blogspot.com/
    Zen Arado: really jolted me
    Wol Euler: start there
    Wol Euler: sorry, zen, pls continue
    Zen Arado: np that's all was going to say
    Wol Euler: all that I wanted to say is that "we" are making a lot of assumptions about this kid, and about its parents, which may be entirely unfounded
    Wol Euler: and are in any case, I'd say, none of "our" business
    Gosons Resident: hey
    milakel Resident: hi, gos
    Maxine Walden: hi, gosons
    Wol Euler: hello gosons, welcome to Second Life. Born today.
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Gosons Resident: yep
    Gosons Resident: so what you guys doing?
    milakel Resident: new guy! :)
    Wol Euler: wow, you know how to speak :) many newborns don't
    Zen Arado: Hi Gos
    Gosons Resident: lol just type it:P
    Wol Euler: I'll give you a notecard about the group, and give you an introduction in IM
    Wol Euler: so we don'T disturb the others
    Gosons Resident: allright
    Maxine Walden: hi, Gos, happy birthday, new to SL?
    Gosons Resident: yes
    Maxine Walden: ah, wol, thanks
    Gosons Resident: can u teach me something about SL?
    Wol Euler: take a seat, right-click on a cushion and select "sit"
    Gosons Resident: oke im sitting
    Zen Arado: that's quite scientific
    milakel Resident: nominal
    milakel Resident: bleu! :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, bleu
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Zen Arado: I was thnking more about the way society conditions us to behave certain ways according to our physical gender equipment
    milakel Resident: stripy girl :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu :)
    milakel Resident: *nods to zen*
    Zen Arado: like giving dolls to girls
    Zen Arado: or do girls have a natural preference for dolls?
    milakel Resident: :)
    Bleu Oleander: a mothering instinct perhaps
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Zen Arado: or is it conditioned into them
    Zen Arado: ?
    Bleu Oleander: probably a good bit is already there
    Bleu Oleander: lots of animals have it
    Zen Arado: well gender isn't just a role then
    Bleu Oleander: someone has to care for the kids :)
    Bleu Oleander: mothers are usually the first to accept that role
    Bleu Oleander: although there are exceptions
    Zen Arado: there have been a lot of societal changes of expectation for men and women's roles re child rearing?
    Bleu Oleander: cultures could always go against that tendancy
    Zen Arado: even since I was young
    Bleu Oleander: yes and some might argue good and bad results
    Zen Arado: aren't there cultures where the men look after the kids?
    Maxine Walden: Afraid I have to leave this interesting conversation. I look forward to seeing the rest of he chatlog.
    Bleu Oleander: bye Maxine
    Wol Euler: bye maxine, take care
    Zen Arado: bye Maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye for now, everyone. See you all soon, I hope!
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Zen Arado: good and bad Bleu?
    Zen Arado: women have become more liberated though?
    Zen Arado: though that is because of technology too
    Bleu Oleander: have children benefited from that?
    Zen Arado: washing machines and vacuum cleaners
    Wol Euler: those that were vaccinated and thus did ont die of polio certainly did
    Wol Euler: sorry, I'm in a polemical mood today, I will shut up
    Bleu Oleander: way not referring to tech
    Bleu Oleander: was referring to liberated moms
    milakel Resident: *tickles woly* :)
    Zen Arado: it's np Wol
    Bleu Oleander: but tech can be good and bad as well
    Zen Arado: like to hear your views
    Bleu Oleander: so much is coming out now about childrens early development
    Zen Arado: yes?
    Bleu Oleander: lots
    Bleu Oleander: can google it
    Bleu Oleander: diet, touch, emotional connection, bonding, etc
    Bleu Oleander: who knows if it will prove true in the future
    Bleu Oleander: but many are looking into it
    Bleu Oleander: not an expert myself :)
    Bleu Oleander: so I should probably shut up too :)
    Zen Arado: it's a big subect for sure
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Bleu Oleander: new info says a childs brain is not fully developed til mid 20's
    Zen Arado: BTW I have an art exhibition just opened on Perfect Paradise
    Bleu Oleander: oh nice!
    milakel Resident: how about taking a field trip, zen? :)
    Bleu Oleander: have to get my "Zen original" out of inventory!
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Bleu Oleander: have to go all
    Bleu Oleander: take care :)
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Wol Euler: bye bleu, bye susan
    Zen Arado: a field trip?
    Zen Arado: bye Susan
    milakel Resident: let's compose a collective poem for bruce :)
    Zen Arado: thinking..
    milakel Resident: bruce we missed you - could start with that :)
    Zen Arado: bugt we have Ways of Knowing that your Original Face will soon be back at Play As Being
    milakel Resident: ha! :)
    Zen Arado: ...
    Wol Euler smiles.
    milakel Resident: creative zen :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: ty Alf
    Zen Arado: I mean Mila
    milakel Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: bye gosons, take care
    Zen Arado: it' is just silly poem
    Gosons Resident: bye!
    milakel Resident: *waves*
    Zen Arado: bye Gos
    Wol Euler: I'm going to head off too, got a headache from the weather (stormy)
    Wol Euler: goodnight, take care
    Zen Arado: yeh ok me too then
    Zen Arado: bye Wol, Mila
    milakel Resident: i'm going to post the poem :)
    Zen Arado: ok :)

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