2011.06.09 13:00 - language and thinking

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    Lia Rikugun: hello dash
    Lia Rikugun: how are you doing?
    Lia Rikugun: hi wol
    Dash Earthboy: there we go...and here come's the fun!
    Dash Earthboy: hi wol
    Lia Rikugun: wow sexy wol
    Wol Euler: hello lia, dash
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: ty
    Lia Rikugun: how are you both doing?
    Wol Euler: pretty well thanks, and you?
    Lia Rikugun: good, tired, lot of work :)
    Dash Earthboy: i'm staying out of Code Orange conditions and intense heat...so being out of it is good
    Lia Rikugun: oh
    Wol Euler: it's cold here today, and for the rest of the week
    Wol Euler: 15 degrees today
    Dash Earthboy: nice!
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Dash Earthboy: that's C right?
    Wol Euler: yep
    Dash Earthboy: we got tiny little showers spread all over this area and I see in Nashville too...like chicken pox :)
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Dash Earthboy: s'ok with me as long as they wash out the pollutants


    language influences our thinking

    Dash Earthboy: have you heard of the idea that we have our thinking influenced by and are constrained by the language we speak?
    Wol Euler: yep, sounds pretty valid to me
    Lia Rikugun: the language and the culture
    Wol Euler: I know that I think differently in differnt languages
    Lia Rikugun: interesting
    Wol Euler: it may be just lack of inhibition, not being constrained by habits of speech
    Dash Earthboy: something called the Sapir-Whorf theory of Linguistic Relativity
    Wol Euler googles
    Dash Earthboy: yah i find i think differently in different languages too although I haven't been to the countries
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
    Lia Rikugun: do you think it is dependent on the people you meet you talk in that language?
    Dash Earthboy: but just having lived in different states has shown me the variety of ways words play into the cultures
    Dash Earthboy: yay! i'm getting thunder here!
    Lia Rikugun: i mean if i am learning a different language at home from the books
    Lia Rikugun: will this influence my thinking in that language differently?
    Dash Earthboy: looks like Bruce may be coming soon
    Lia Rikugun: or is it dependent on the people i interact with when talking the different language?
    Wol Euler: I think it's independent of ohter people, because I see the difference even when I'm talking to myself :)
    Lia Rikugun: yes but you built up a thinking pattern maybe, no?
    Wol Euler: but one might ask: if all languages were the same, why would there be a difference when talking to people here or there?
    Dash Earthboy: yah that's kinda my point
    Dash Earthboy: US English isn't the same all over the country
    Dash Earthboy: words are different, represent different concepts even tolday
    Wol Euler: it's a bit chicken and egg, really: culture makes language, but language makes culture too
    Lia Rikugun: thats true


    some words dont exist in other languages

    Lia Rikugun: there are some words that dont exist in other languages
    Wol Euler: indeed!
    Lia Rikugun: 'schadenfreude' for example
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: "kehricht"
    Dash Earthboy: i think what Wol said is most readily apparent in music too
    Wol Euler: is perhaps specifically southern German
    Wol Euler: cultures invent words for concepts that they find important
    Wol Euler: meaning, they are as lazy as people :)
    Wol Euler: the Swabians (southwest Germans) were and remain very concerned with cleanliness
    Lia Rikugun: hi arch
    Wol Euler: you know when you sweep the floor with a broom, you end up with a little pile of stuff which you then brush into the dustpan to throw away
    Dash Earthboy: hey Arch
    Wol Euler: "kehricht" is that little pile of stuff!
    Wol Euler: it was important enough to them that they invented a word for it
    Wol Euler: hello arch
    Dash Earthboy: good to know that Wol
    Lia Rikugun: :) wol
    Wol Euler grins.
    Dash Earthboy: so calling somebody kehricht would be an insult?
    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about languages and how talking in a different language makes you think differently
    Wol Euler: definitely, but only in the southwest
    Wol Euler: anywhere else they'd just look at you blankly
    Dash Earthboy: ah there's the constraint!
    Wol Euler: aye, there's the rub :)
    Dash Earthboy: their language doesn't have the kehricht concept?
    Wol Euler: I believe and admittedly limited experience confirms that it is a dialect word
    Dash Earthboy: verrrry interesting!
    Wol Euler: ... and my ...
    Lia Rikugun: i think i have heard it before, but didnt really know what it means
    Lia Rikugun: well i am german
    Archmage Atlantis: pogram.....is that word any of you know?
    Wol Euler: indeed . not swabian :)
    Wol Euler: yes, arch
    Archmage Atlantis: I , a desendent of the British Isles, know it in my genetic profile
    Dash Earthboy: well, to me the theory sounds an awful lot like part of a presentation i did in a philosophy class back in 1971
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: would that make it more or less likely to be true?
    Archmage Atlantis: There appears to have been a genetic adam and eve. best guess at the moment


    real experiences cannot be descibed accurately

    Dash Earthboy: well, my point was in that presentation that we could have real experiences and not be able to describe it accurately to others in our culture
    Wol Euler nods.
    Archmage Atlantis: Say hello to Fael for me Wol
    Wol Euler: I'll do that, arch.
    Archmage Atlantis: Namaste
    Wol Euler: goodnight
    Dash Earthboy: namaste Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: And my Blessings
    Dash Earthboy: wait, what's happening?
    Wol Euler: um, I thought Arch was going to leave :) sorry if I misled us all
    Archmage Atlantis: If one Dashes. one has to ketchup
    Wol Euler: *rimshot*
    Archmage Atlantis: chuckle
    Dash Earthboy: and then i saw Lia do a short "away"
    Lia Rikugun: sorry :)
    Dash Earthboy: i'm easily confused :)
    Lia Rikugun: so we can stay in confusion a little


    Guugu Yimithirr

    Wol Euler: the Australian language Guugu Yimithirr only uses absolute directions when describing spatial relations — the position of everything is described by using the cardinal directions. A speaker of Guugu yimithirr will define a person as being "north of the house", while a speaker of English may say that he is "in front of the house" or "to the left of the house" depending on the speaker's point of view. This difference makes Guugu yimithirr speakers better at performing some kinds of tasks, such as finding and describing locations in open terrain, whereas English speakers perform better in tasks regarding the positioning of objects relative to the speaker (for example telling someone to set a round table putting forks to the right of the plate and knives to the left would be extremely difficult in Guugu yimithirr).
    Archmage Atlantis: Easily confused.....to me that is easily certaain
    Wol Euler: (wikipedia, that URL I gave earlier)


    reliable Wikipedia

    Archmage Atlantis: Wikipedia was reliable for a wile
    Wol Euler: as long as you don't read about Paul Revere ...
    Archmage Atlantis: It has been palen'd
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Lia Rikugun: http://xkcd.com/906/
    Lia Rikugun: funny comic for wikipedia
    Archmage Atlantis: No t easy to be
    Wol Euler: yeah, I saw that :)
    Lia Rikugun: (there is always text poping up if you move the cursor over the image)


    animals understanding..

    Archmage Atlantis: Cats understand. dogs do as we ask, birds fly
    Dash Earthboy: how does one know a cat understands?
    Archmage Atlantis: Because the cat got there before one did
    Dash Earthboy: some dogs are disagreeable...and then there's penguins
    Archmage Atlantis: OMG. the penguins. bird wimming, no fly]
    Dash Earthboy: just another perspective
    Archmage Atlantis: flyin in h2o I suppose
    Dash Earthboy: there's a concept for us :)
    Archmage Atlantis: ep
    Wol Euler nods.
    Dash Earthboy: i think it may be easier for me to fly in beer than water :)
    Archmage Atlantis: We humans kn ow everything
    Dash Earthboy: i thought cats knew everything :)
    Wol Euler: nah, they just give that impression
    Wol Euler: something in their attitude ..
    Dash Earthboy: ah!
    Dash Earthboy: so if I could learn to sing like a cat....
    Archmage Atlantis: True
    Archmage Atlantis: because if I don't know it, you will tell me g
    Archmage Atlantis: Koya hears
    Archmage Atlantis: Ding
    Dash Earthboy: these days i dance like a canary and sing like a bear
    Archmage Atlantis: Ok, florida panthers and bears are eating goats and sheep in peoples yards
    Archmage Atlantis: Coyotes are here also
    Dash Earthboy: yah they're all over
    Dash Earthboy: lots of illegals need transport
    Archmage Atlantis: I never thought being involved with a guy fro Mebraska
    Archmage Atlantis: would bring me here
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: life's paths are convoluted
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Wol Euler: and sometimes only to be seen as such in retrospect
    Archmage Atlantis: The teachings of Siddhartha
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Dash Earthboy: we favor retro & circumspective
    Archmage Atlantis: To become the king, one must no longer be the prince
    Dash Earthboy: sounds like a political statement
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Dash Earthboy: but i don't think he'll replace Elvis
    Archmage Atlantis: Heh, dude....I AM Elvis
    Dash Earthboy: uh huh
    Archmage Atlantis: OK,Dash
    Archmage Atlantis: I';; return to Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi wizard of Atlantis
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Dash Earthboy: way down below the ocean where i wanna be you may be....
    Archmage Atlantis: Donovan
    Dash Earthboy: yah
    Archmage Atlantis: Didn't know you were that old
    Dash Earthboy: surprise
    Wol Euler: :)
    Dash Earthboy: but then I taught my son to sing "Wake up little susie" so who knows huh?
    Dash Earthboy: say it's only a paper moon hanging over a cardboard sea...
    Archmage Atlantis: Your move...tell me what you tell your great grandson
    Dash Earthboy: heheh
    Archmage Atlantis: ding
    Dash Earthboy: i also taught my son "HangingByA Moment" :)
    Dash Earthboy: i think music helps one stay ageless
    Archmage Atlantis: This planet of what we call earth is my son
    Lia Rikugun: sorry i will leave you to go to bed, have a good night!
    Wol Euler: goodnight lia, sleep well
    Dash Earthboy: g'nite Lia
    Archmage Atlantis: More important, it is my daughter
    Dash Earthboy: hmmm...ponders "Child of the Universe" & "Master of the Universe"...
    Wol Euler: I haven't heard that expression in a while :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Ponder away, she left....and I will also...Blessimg to you both
    Wol Euler: I assume you are referring to the stock brokers' hubris?
    Dash Earthboy: you too Arch
    Wol Euler: bye arch, take care
    Dash Earthboy: we've cooled down 10 degrees here already
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Dash Earthboy: i mean here at my house from the storm :)
    Wol Euler: unddrstood

    Dash Earthboy: what was supper for you today?
    Wol Euler: a frozen pizza at home
    Wol Euler: it's usually less but I was particularly hungry
    Dash Earthboy: cool
    Wol Euler: lunch is my main meal of the day, since many years now
    Wol Euler: dinner is usually just a sandwich or two
    Wol Euler: or crackers and cheese etc
    Dash Earthboy: i've been trying to use up some mushrooms I got on pizzas
    Dash Earthboy: and in salads and omelets
    Wol Euler nods.
    Dash Earthboy: got a huge bag of organic mushrooms for $1.49
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Dash Earthboy: they do go well with the 10 lbs of potatos I got yesterday for $2
    Dash Earthboy: i've been trying to eat cooler tho
    Wol Euler: cold food?
    Dash Earthboy: i processed the strawberries this morning
    Dash Earthboy: i got good deals on strawberries, blueberries and bananas yesterday
    Dash Earthboy: and then the milk for $1.49/gal
    Wol Euler: good work :)
    Wol Euler: and probably pretty healthy too
    Dash Earthboy: and the cereal...the way i figured it, i got 12 meals of cerea w/bananas for $4.25
    Dash Earthboy: that's honey nut cheerios cereal
    Wol Euler: interesting to compare that to the price of potatoes ...
    Wol Euler: processed stuff costs more per mouthful
    Dash Earthboy: and actually the 15 bananas will also go on sandwichs and in banana splits
    Wol Euler: right
    Wol Euler: actually it sounds pretty delicious
    Wol Euler: in a way, almost extravagant
    Dash Earthboy: it is very good food
    Dash Earthboy: yes pretty dang sweet and healthy
    Wol Euler: you'd expect to have that on the menu at breakfast at an up-and-coming hotel
    Dash Earthboy: yah
    Wol Euler: an interesting reflection on what "luxury" means
    Dash Earthboy: breakfast for me today was a mushroom single egg omelet (extra large brown organic btw), and potato w/V8 juice and 4 cups of coffee
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: er, the recorder is still running
    Wol Euler: I'll stop it

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core