2011.06.11 19:00 - Wanting a TARDIS

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: hi Roger!
    Roger Ormenthal: Hi Pema!
    Pema Pera: how are you?
    Roger Ormenthal: Great, thanks. I'm reading your astrophysicist info, one of my favorite subjects.
    Pema Pera: glad you enjoy it!
    Pema Pera: any particular aspect that interests you?
    Roger Ormenthal: Well as you say, "The nature of reality."
    Pema Pera: hi Eos!
    Roger Ormenthal: On all scales.
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema and Roger!
    Roger Ormenthal: Hi Eos.
    Roger Ormenthal: What is your take on the plausibility of FTL information transmission and physical travel?
    Pema Pera: FTL?
    Pema Pera: faster than light?
    Roger Ormenthal: faster than light
    Pema Pera: according to what we know, that doesn't seem to be possible
    Pema Pera: unless spacetime is multiply connected through worm holes
    Roger Ormenthal: In light of seemingly instantaneous communication between entangled particles.
    Pema Pera: yes, but that doesn't allow information to be passed
    Pema Pera: according to quantum mechanics
    Roger Ormenthal: I know that is what is commonly explained.
    Roger Ormenthal: And yet it implies a deeper connectivity than the standard model comprehends.
    Pema Pera: oh yes!
    Pema Pera: totally different
    Pema Pera: it's very inspiring that the clockwork picture of the material world turned out to be wrong
    Roger Ormenthal: I agree. A closed system would be boring.
    Pema Pera: hi fabgear!
    Roger Ormenthal: If two sets of photons are entangled, A1 with A2, and B1 with B2, and if all photons are far apart (light years) and if All photons are of the same frequency, than what is unique among the photons that allows A1 to communicate with A2, and B1 with B2. There is no signature resonance or other uniqueness, other than their gistorical origins.
    Roger Ormenthal: (historical)
    Pema Pera: "communicate" is a tricky word
    Pema Pera: hi Susan!
    Eos Amaterasu: hi wander!
    Roger Ormenthal: I know :)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves :)
    Pema Pera: How are you, Susan?
    iwandertoo Resident: well, thanks. you?
    Pema Pera: fine!
    Pema Pera: quiet Sunday morning here for me
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves

    Steve typed his sentence immediately after the "thank you" appeared in green, at the end of the break, with the bell sounding and the pond evaporing its mist.  However, Steve in the process of arriving, hadn't noticed the coincidence :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: wow
    Eos Amaterasu: nicely timed, stevenaia
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Pema Pera: hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pema, Eos, Susan, Roger
    Eos Amaterasu: as the bell sounds ending the 90 second gap
    Roger Ormenthal: Hi
    Pema Pera: and now we got another 90 second gap for free :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: sharing lovely morning, lovely evening
    Pema Pera: yes, SL is so magical, allowing us to meet across space and time(zones)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Pema Pera: even after four years I'm still in awe by its possibilities
    Pema Pera: hi Hokon!
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Hokon
    Pema Pera: and I'm still wondering why it hasn't caught on with more people
    stevenaia Michinaga: now if we can just figure out how to meet each other tomorrow... today
    Pema Pera: oh, you just did Steve!
    Pema Pera: I'm in Sunday :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: ha ha
    stevenaia Michinaga: then we might catch on a bit quicker
    stevenaia Michinaga: grins
    Hokon Cazalet: /wants lotto numbers
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, pema, can you sent tonight's #'s to me?
    Pema Pera: I can tell you that the weather tomorrow will be quite nice
    Pema Pera: (in Tokyo at least)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Pema Pera: I'm happy to send numbers, Steve
    Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
    Pema Pera: 42, 156, 198
    Pema Pera: would you like more?
    Hokon Cazalet: π

    Hokon just enlarged the concept of a lottery to the use of transcendental numbers . . .

    stevenaia Michinaga: I'l share (and donate)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: hi Ewan!
    Hokon Cazalet: hiya ewan
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ewa!
    Eos Amaterasu: *Ewa
    stevenaia Michinaga: can we assume... if it could be done (even in the future) someone would know
    Eos Amaterasu: *Ewan
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Ewan
    Pema Pera: sorry, Steve, what do you mean?
    Pema Pera: time travel?
    stevenaia Michinaga: if someone was contacted by someone from the future.... it wuld hardly be a secret
    stevenaia Michinaga: contacted, not visited by, necessarilly
    Pema Pera: yes, that is an argument against the possibility of time travel
    stevenaia Michinaga: trough conciouse or unconciouse communication
    Pema Pera: but science fiction writers have tried to get around that
    Pema Pera: for example, by positiing that you can only travel between two time machines
    stevenaia Michinaga: or cell phone service from the future
    Hokon Cazalet: wormholes would offer a way past that problem too, cant use those to go before the wormhole got made
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Pema Pera: so after the first is invented, you can go back to only that point
    Hokon Cazalet: yup pema =)
    Pema Pera: yes, Hokon
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Ewan Bonham: That presumes a kinda physical space..
    stevenaia Michinaga: exactly, so what I am saying if it could be done, would prbably be commonplace at some point in the futre
    Ewan Bonham: With destinations..
    stevenaia Michinaga: so it must be very dificult or impossible
    Hokon Cazalet: wormholes are space/time portals, if those are the only path to time travel, it'd work; if not well
    Pema Pera: yes, Ewan, it may be more interesting than that
    Hokon Cazalet wants a TARDIS

    and hence the title for this session.

    stevenaia Michinaga: (I think only the Brits have those)
    Hokon Cazalet: aww
    Hokon Cazalet: =(
    Roger Ormenthal: Like physical travel where we have walking, driving, flying in jets, space ships, etc., there may be different orders of time travel technology, from crude to highly refined, miniatured, etc.
    Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
    Roger Ormenthal: (miniaturized)
    stevenaia Michinaga: or... none at all... ever
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: gad, never?
    Hokon Cazalet: i kinda hope time travel isnt possible, i dont like the idea of history being able to be re-written wantonly
    stevenaia Michinaga: I know, who (what) made this unbreakable path to the future
    Roger Ormenthal: Some say causation violations can be acommodated by virtue way of a bifurcation point where another universe timeline is spawned.
    Hokon Cazalet: that seems to violate energy conservation laws i think
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems we can mash up everything in the universe except time
    Roger Ormenthal: It is messy
    Hokon Cazalet: dunno, always a question i had about that
    Eos Amaterasu: it's just a matter of time, stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: grins, we shall see... or not
    Roger Ormenthal: Some shamans talk about going back in time and healing situatuations retroactively, and going into the future mentally to proactively affect the future. That may be New Age nonsense, or have a deep basis is subtle and not yet appreciated scientific reality.
    Ewan Bonham: Can these other times be placed in the present moment?
    Hokon Cazalet: yes, the now is relative
    Hokon Cazalet: (the objective-now is)
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps now is to important to provide an un-natural path away from it
    Pema Pera: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders who/what gave time that importance
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Roger Ormenthal: We do knoe that time is noth the "tick, tick, tick" w usually think of. Time flows more slowly in strong gravitational fields, and virtually stops at the event horizon of a black hole. Since gravity is stronger at your feet than your head when you are standing, we walk around every day with time passing at different rates at different eevations of our body. The difference is very small, yet real.
    Hokon Cazalet: time is an issue ive been exploring a lot lately, i think it has to do a lot with meaningfulness, but nothing fully worked out yet on that . . .
    Roger Ormenthal: know - typos!
    Hokon Cazalet: at the singularity/center of a black hole, time ends, history comes to an end literally
    Roger Ormenthal: (different elevations)
    Pema Pera: time is very mysterious . . . . and yes, any meaning we can find is tied up with time

    what I meant is that meaning, as we normally use the word, is connecting concepts in a process that takes time to construct and analyze.

    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    stevenaia Michinaga: so what is the speed of conciousness?
    Pema Pera: each moment we travel in time, in various ways
    Roger Ormenthal: instantaneous
    Hokon Cazalet: seems like miliseconds, last i heard
    Hokon Cazalet: (compared to computers, which process in nano-seconds)
    Eos Amaterasu: it's a million miles away, and it's right here in your picture frame - JH
    Ewan Bonham: Because if time comes to an end...then how would anything happen?
    Hokon Cazalet: nothing does happen, the center of a black hole is a discontinuity in space/time
    Roger Ormenthal: neural is milliseconds, but if mind and brain are separate, then it can be instantaneous in mind.
    stevenaia Michinaga: does pema perceive it last because he is farther away?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: (from me)
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe order of events is relative too
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is when there is an SL typing lag
    Hokon Cazalet: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: so the Lindens control time
    stevenaia Michinaga: I knew it
    Hokon Cazalet: ohhhhhh i think i see how time travel could unravel science now . . .
    Pema Pera: perhaps the most fundamental mistake we make is to think that there is an unchanging self that represents us that is transported through time
    Hokon Cazalet: i think thats not a mistake =)
    Pema Pera: if that's not the case, this whole discussion may take on a different flavor
    Hokon Cazalet: well
    Hokon Cazalet: hm

    We didn't get a chance to continue that particular thread, a pity in a way, since I would have loved to hear from Hokon how she saw an unchanging self, if that was what she meant; but quickly other threads got spun out.

    Roger Ormenthal: rather than a discontinuity of space/time at the center of a black hole, it may merely be a current failure in human comprehension, with a fully sensible reality.
    Hokon Cazalet: quite possible roger
    Hokon Cazalet: general relativity does have problems with it, and black holes are both a relativistic phenomenon and a quantum phenomenon
    Hokon Cazalet: er, there are problems with GR*
    Hokon Cazalet: hi lucinda =)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Lucinda, you still in NYC?
    Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Yes till tomorrow night
    stevenaia Michinaga: :) Sylectra and I were at the MEt today :(
    Pema Pera: sorry to miss you, Lucinda! I live in NYC, but am now at the other side of the globe
    Lucinda Lavender: aw...
    Pema Pera: oh, how nice, Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: convergence
    Lucinda Lavender: I was at the met too:)
    Lucinda Lavender: we could have had a chat...:)
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: what did you see?
    Pema Pera: but you didn't recognize each other in non-av form?
    stevenaia Michinaga: time we short and we jut passed though on the way to the cooper Hewett
    Lucinda Lavender: not sure what that means
    Pema Pera: non-avatar form
    stevenaia Michinaga: I park there in RL, yes
    Lucinda Lavender: no we did not...
    Hokon Cazalet: nonsense! only pixels exist, this metaphysical "physical body" is hogwash! =P
    Lucinda Lavender: cooper hewett?
    stevenaia Michinaga: tie was short, rather, speaking of time
    stevenaia Michinaga: the cooper hewett is a smithsonion museum up the street
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...
    Lucinda Lavender: I think my daughter can get in to all for free:)
    Lucinda Lavender: so neue-galerie for breakfast perhaps

    Eos came up with a free interpretation of getting in for free:

    Eos Amaterasu: cat burglar?
    Lucinda Lavender: inter at the met:)
    Lucinda Lavender: intern
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, we went to lunch there :)
    Lucinda Lavender: was it wonderful?
    Pema Pera: must be an interesting place to be an intern!
    stevenaia Michinaga: best coffee in NY, it;s always wonderful
    Eos Amaterasu feels like he's in New York
    stevenaia Michinaga: (becuase it;s Austrian coffee)
    Lucinda Lavender: ok...yes ...for her it is a Tiffany internship in the American Wing for a year:)
    Pema Pera: ah, so we will see you back in New York again, Lucinda?
    Pema Pera: Perhaps next time we can all meet!
    Lucinda Lavender: I do hope so!
    iwandertoo Resident: do it on a weekend!
    Pema Pera: do let us know
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I will for sure...
    Eos Amaterasu: meet at the Met
    Pema Pera: we can organize a mini-PaB-retreat
    iwandertoo Resident: love nyc
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Pema Pera: or at least a PaB-treat
    Lucinda Lavender: great idea...

    I hope this will work!

    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: oo, in a museum, how perfect
    iwandertoo Resident: the frick
    iwandertoo Resident: the atrium...
    Lucinda Lavender: in amounst the Buddhas
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, always quiet there
    Lucinda Lavender: or...waht is the frick
    Pema Pera: :)
    Roger Ormenthal: I am a native New Yorker, in California now.
    iwandertoo Resident: same Roger
    iwandertoo Resident: it's a museum, Luci
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.frick.org/
    iwandertoo Resident: lovely...my favorite...but not the Met
    Ewan Bonham: Are you speaking of the Buddhist temple right on the southern tip of Manhattan?
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...so wow...this is so great
    iwandertoo Resident: different feel
    Eos Amaterasu: Met as in Opera
    iwandertoo Resident: museum
    Lucinda Lavender: was thinking of the asian part of the Met Museum
    stevenaia Michinaga: the Buddists Galleries at the MET
    Eos Amaterasu: the scholar's garden
    Eos Amaterasu: anywhere where time stands still
    Eos Amaterasu: for a sec or 9
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: sounds great..
    Eos Amaterasu: a flash PaB
    Pema Pera: which reminds me, Eos, how are your PaB apps coming along?
    Eos Amaterasu: haven't done anything since the little script....
    Pema Pera: we are all waiting!
    Roger Ormenthal: There is little in speculative fiction or science fiction from the past that has not been achieved. Perhas anything we can dream, we can do, with sufficiently deep knowledge of the universe, and advanced technology or advanced spiritual techniques.
    Eos Amaterasu: it's one of the 10,000 things.....
    Pema Pera: it's such a great idea . . .
    Hokon Cazalet: brb want food
    Pema Pera: I'll have to be moving on
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Pema Pera: nice talking with you all this evening!
    Roger Ormenthal: Bye Pema

    I left at this point, and will leave the remainder of the session uncommented.

    Eos Amaterasu: me too... falling asleep
    stevenaia Michinaga: that's waht I was eluding to roger, thinking if it could be dome in the future they would have succeeded and they (our childrens children's children)would have tried to contact us by now
    Eos Amaterasu: thanks and bye, all
    stevenaia Michinaga: by pema
    Pema Pera: bfn
    stevenaia Michinaga: night eos
    stevenaia Michinaga: umless they ahven;t gotten to the futurre yet
    Roger Ormenthal: Stevenaia, they might have succeeded, but refrained from contact or revealing themselves in order to not interfere.
    Roger Ormenthal: (sorry re bell)
    Ewan Bonham: Thank you all...an interesting conversation...Bye for now..:)
    Lucinda Lavender: was gone a moment ...
    Lucinda Lavender: back now
    Lucinda Lavender: bye all who have left
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Ewan
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Hokon Cazalet: back
    Lucinda Lavender: bye susan
    Lucinda Lavender: what did you see at the cooper hewett steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.cooperhewitt.org/exhibitions/set-in-style
    stevenaia Michinaga: very nice jewelry
    Lucinda Lavender: nice!
    Lucinda Lavender: such craftsmanship...
    stevenaia Michinaga: thre's also an APP for that you can download if you have an ipad
    stevenaia Michinaga: has many photographs
    Lucinda Lavender: afraid I do not have the ipad...
    stevenaia Michinaga: they give them to you at the museum for free
    Lucinda Lavender: to keep?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no
    Lucinda Lavender: of course...silly to even ask...
    stevenaia Michinaga: just while you are there
    Lucinda Lavender: that would be interesting tho...
    Hokon Cazalet: im gonna head to bed, goodnighty =)
    Lucinda Lavender: I will need to go soon as tomorrow will be an early morn...
    Hokon Cazalet: byebyes all =)
    Lucinda Lavender: night Hokon:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
    stevenaia Michinaga: safe travels Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks steve...
    Roger Ormenthal: Bye Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: I hope to see you again another day...
    Lucinda Lavender: bye to all:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye roger
    Roger Ormenthal: I'll say goodnight too. Bye.

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