2011.06.14 07:00 - Wow! like far out! emanating Blu-ness

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

    Riddle Sideways: Morning Bruce and Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi Riddle and Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Riddle and Bleu.

    Riddle Sideways: wow, like how all the flowers went back into a ball and poofed
    Bleu Oleander: cool huh?

    Bruce Mowbray: I'vebeen thinking all morning about Pema's assignment for this week's TIME sessions, and those flowers are a perfect example --
    Riddle Sideways: opps, am behind in homework
    Bleu Oleander: haven't done this week's assignment yet either
    Bleu Oleander: last one, right?
    Riddle Sideways: was doing the week befores early and often
    Riddle Sideways: this week have not even read it
    Riddle Sideways: printed it to take to gym, but left it on the printer
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Bleu Oleander: say more Bruce about the flowers?
    Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Xir
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Bleu, Bruce, Riddle:)

    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Chapter 14 dels with "dulaities" -- as the supposed duality between "easy " and "hard" or "real" and "illusory."
    Bruce Mowbray: So when I saw the blue flowers -- appearing, moving, coming out of you and going back into you - to poof . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: I instantly thought of Pema's assignment.
    Bruce Mowbray: and what is "real" and what it "difficult" -- etc etc etc.
    Bleu Oleander: ah nice Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Xir!
    Xirana Oximoxi: good day, Bruce:)

    Riddle Sideways: like Donovan song: once there were some flower, then there were no flowers, then there were :)
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps I can focus on your thoughts as I'm doing this new assignment :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and isn't that exactly the case the absolutely everything, Riddle?
    Bruce Mowbray: (including your print-out, not taken to the gym?
    Riddle Sideways: yep
    Bleu Oleander: thank you both for a little homework help :)
    Bleu Oleander ⊱ smiles ⊰
    Riddle Sideways: with SL it seems even easier to switch real/imaginery
    Bruce Mowbray: During my recent hospitalization, I "lost" 16 pounds of body weight. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: was that weight an "illusory" "me" == ----
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't recall having any difficulty "losing" it.
    Bleu Oleander: brb
    Bruce Mowbray wonders is Bleu's blue flowers weigh anything -- and suddenly is aware that it doesn't matter.
    Riddle Sideways: we see flowers
    Riddle Sideways: then see no flowers
    Riddle Sideways: what it maters is a different
    Riddle Sideways: :) 2 meanings to mater/matter
    Bruce Mowbray now thinks of 3 meanings to 'matter' -- at least. . .
    Wol Euler: good afternoon, everyone
    Riddle Sideways: back long ago... we would just look at the flowers and say "Oh, wow, look at that..."
    Bruce Mowbray: G'day, Wol!
    Riddle Sideways: Hiya Wol
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Wol:)
    Bleu Oleander: hey Wol

    Riddle Sideways: not even labeling it as flowers
    Riddle Sideways: just impressed
    Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Riddle, and Pema is incouraging and inviting us to return to such fresh seeing/Being through his chapters.
    Bruce Mowbray: encouraging*
    Riddle Sideways: well, it was a little hard to function in that world (if memory serves)
    Riddle Sideways: walking to some place was hard, when you had to see so many pretty non-labeled things
    Bruce Mowbray: "Simply ask Time to show us its Real Face in each moment of the day. Whenever we remember to do so, simply rest in each moment, beyond reality and illusion."
    Riddle Sideways: pretty flappy insect
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Wol Euler: hello yaku
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Yaku:)
    Riddle Sideways: Howdee Yak and SS

    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha! Are we more distracted by thoes things that suddenly attract out attention - or by our conceptualizations (labeling, grouping, judgments, etc.) about them?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Yaku!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
    Wol Euler: zhello sharon
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon, Yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: zhello to you too
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Sharon!
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Sophia

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like ur new furry outfit wol :)
    Wol Euler: ty :)
    Riddle Sideways: back then the thing was not labeled and was still pretty
    Bleu Oleander: nice kitty :)
    Bruce Mowbray: "Beginner's Mind"?
    Wol Euler purrs
    Riddle Sideways: now, sadly, seem to label first and apreciate later
    Bleu Oleander: not everyone does that
    Bleu Oleander: keep an artist's mind
    Riddle Sideways: and /me does not either :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ari
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ari! :))

    Bleu Oleander: that's exactly what I was hoping my theater piece would say
    Riddle Sideways: an artist mind is different then beginners mind (but simular)
    Arisia Vita: hope all are well and happy, hi...
    Bleu Oleander: don't label what is or is not music
    Wol Euler: hello ari!
    Bruce Mowbray: Agrees with Riddle -- I call that "glomming" -- compulsively grouping, labeling, and categorizing the moments of our experience. --- I suspect (in my case) it might be a phony way of trying to be more "secure' with whatever happens -- by imagining I can control it is some way - through words and categories.
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Arisia
    Bleu Oleander: hi Ari
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Arisia.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Bruce
    Wol Euler: "to name something is to control it" as the wizards used to say
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Artista
    Wol Euler: at least in fantasy fiction
    Bleu Oleander: how is artist's mind different than beginners mind? and how are they similar?
    Wol Euler is reading Ursula LeGuin at the moment
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zen
    Riddle Sideways: ah, the control freaks within us
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen
    Bleu Oleander read Lavinia by Ursula :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Folks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zen.

    Xirana Oximoxi: maybe artist's mind try to 'delete' pre-stablished images of everything
    Riddle Sideways: why is out of control (controlling everything) a bad place?
    Riddle Sideways: or does artist mind, re-paint the outlines out there
    Zen Arado: yeh paint what you see not what you think
    Bleu Oleander: as an artist I don't try to delete anything ... I try to keep my experiences fresh
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Zen:)
    Riddle Sideways: or the other way round
    Zen Arado: yeh that too
    Wol Euler: hello zen
    Bruce Mowbray suspects that the illusion is that we ever "control" anything --- although the artist seems to simulate "control" through her artistry.
    Riddle Sideways: Hi DRuth
    Zen Arado: but we never see what's there anyway
    druth Vlodovic: hi
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, druth!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Druth

    Zen Arado: only interpreted through our thoughts and experience
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi druth:)
    Zen Arado: Hi Druth
    Wol Euler: hello druth

    Riddle Sideways: we see, whether that is real, truth, what another labels matters not so much
    Zen Arado: yeh just seeing
    Zen Arado: or can we see without conceptualising?
    Riddle Sideways: the beginner mind sees it for the first time
    Zen Arado: very difficult
    Riddle Sideways: artist mind might color it
    Bleu Oleander: hi Zen and druth
    Bruce Mowbray: simple seeing-Being . . . . no dualities, judgments, categories, glomming together of characteristics.
    Zen Arado: as soo as your brain gets hold of the raw data it addsa lot
    Bleu Oleander: any mind colors experience
    Zen Arado: like hearing a sound
    Bleu Oleander: no such thing as receiving raw data
    Zen Arado: the mind immediatelt lkabels it
    Riddle Sideways: [in previous chat] to just see and say "wow, far out..."
    Zen Arado: think it is raw for a few milliseconds
    druth Vlodovic: I was at a talk last night about "proximal" and "distal" knowing, proximal is the method we use for interpreting something, and is invisible to us, distal is our focus
    Zen Arado: then the brain grabs it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think so too Zen
    Bleu Oleander: actually you need your brain to put it together
    Riddle Sideways listens to DRuth
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Bruce Mowbray: Bleu -- would you mind showing us the flowers again -- for the in-the-moment experience and appreciation of those who arrived after they poofed?
    Bleu Oleander: can't experiece the raw as such
    Zen Arado: see with our brain
    Bleu Oleander ⊱ smiles ⊰
    Arisia Vita: can the blind see anything? can the sighted see nothing?
    Zen Arado: we only see in 2d too
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Bleu!
    Zen Arado: retinas are flat
    Zen Arado: the brain adds the 3d
    Wol Euler: ty
    Zen Arado: it has little 3d glasses :)
    Zen Arado: or 3d processing capability
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what was the talk about Druth?
    Riddle Sideways: we stare at a monitor, yet see bleu eminate blueness
    Bruce Mowbray: druth Vlodovic: I was at a talk last night about "proximal" and "distal" knowing, proximal is the method we use for interpreting something, and is invisible to us, distal is our focus
    Bleu Oleander: eminating bleuness :))
    Riddle Sideways: can we not see the proximal ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I see what the speaker(?) is saying but would like to hear more. :)
    Riddle Sideways: or is that the exercise
    druth Vlodovic: it was more an observation
    Riddle Sideways: to see, but not get caught up in the proximal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what if the focus is proximal
    Riddle Sideways: fun
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh :) nvm
    Bleu Oleander: can't see the mechanisms behind the scene
    druth Vlodovic: one example was that you can't see the features of a facew and the face at the same time
    Zen Arado: I read somewhere that seeing is a two way process...the see-er and the object being seen...need both
    Bleu Oleander: interesting "the Ego Tunnel"
    Bleu Oleander: book by Mezinger
    Xirana Oximoxi: I must go, bye to all and see you soon:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Zen
    Wol Euler: bye xir, take care
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Xirana have fun
    Zen Arado: byr Xirana

    Riddle Sideways: also read that the eye is refocusing very rapidly, not staring
    Riddle Sideways: by Xir
    Bleu Oleander: bye Xirana
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Xir.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye xirana

    Wol Euler nods to Riddle
    Wol Euler: apparently the area we can actually see in clear focus is only about two inches across at arm's length
    Wol Euler: the brain "fills in" a uniformly sharp image from many such snapshots, like a mosaic
    Riddle Sideways: knowing that each pixel is made some degree of RGB is important knowledge, but gets in the way of seeing blu flowers
    Riddle Sideways: seeing those 2 square inches and inventing/compositing the rest
    Bleu Oleander: doesn't get in the way for me
    Riddle Sideways: does what for your knowledge
    Riddle Sideways: state of mind?
    Riddle Sideways: good
    Zen Arado: the rest is there though..just not so much detail
    SophiaSharon Larnia: without it, my state of mind would detoriate rapidly
    Bruce Mowbray: When I first began to meditate, I was encouraged not to label anything -- so, instead of thinking to myself, "Here is a _____," when something came to mine, I trained myself to think, "This one, now." "This one, here" etc etc. Never labeling, comparing, judging -- simply "taking note and moving on.
    Zen Arado: yeh fi I focus on someon'es name in the middle of my screen I can't read anyone elses
    Bruce Mowbray: mind*
    druth Vlodovic: we build images in our minds of the world around, images composed of sensory data, memory, emotions and associations
    Riddle Sideways: we see this side of the building is blue, should we assume the other sides are blue too - 'Stranger in a Strange Lan'
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Riddle Sideways: LAN :)
    Wol Euler nods.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Zen Arado: same when you learn to paint...you paint a colour and a shape not an object
    Bruce Mowbray: Stranger in a Strange Local Area Network....
    druth Vlodovic: and bruce, that sounds like what I have to do at work to properly evaluate my product, otherwise I see what I need to to sit down for a minute :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: listens for tips from Zen :))
    Zen Arado: this is phenomenology isn't it?
    Bleu Oleander: http://www.edge.org/
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, the is one way of doing phenomenology.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bleu Oleander: interesting interview with Wilson
    Bruce Mowbray: this*
    Bruce Mowbray: say more, please, Bleu.
    Bleu Oleander: he wrote "stangers to ourselves"
    Bleu Oleander: great book
    Riddle Sideways: ty
    Wol Euler makes a note
    Zen Arado: believing the stories we tell ourselves
    Riddle Sideways: oh, was not suppose to read and watch now :)
    Bleu Oleander: The Torah asks this question: "Is not a flower a mystery no flower can explain?" Some scholars have said yes, some scholars have said no. Wilson has said, "Let’s go find out." He has always worn two professional hats — the hat of the psychologist and the hat of the methodologist. He has written extensively about the importance of using experimental methods to solve real world problems, and in his work on the science of psychological change — he uses a scientific flashlight to chase away a whole host of shadows by examining the many ways in which human beings try to change themselves — from self-help to psychotherapy — and asking whether these things really work, and if so, why? His answers will surprise many people and piss off the rest. I predict that this new work will be the center of a very interesting storm.
    Zen Arado: we do things and then invent resons for the actions?
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps each of us has a bit of narcissistic impulse -- wanting to believe in ourselves as more "real" than anything else.
    Riddle Sideways: or not
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at not
    Zen Arado: it sounds like things Buddhists knew centuries ago though
    Riddle Sideways: ty, need more books that surprise and piss off the rest
    druth Vlodovic: human beings have been human for a long time
    Wol Euler: true
    Zen Arado: meditation allows us to see the stories
    Zen Arado: be able to detach

         Power (and internet) goes off at the commentator's part of town and Riddle poofs.

    druth Vlodovic: sometimes when I read I forget that I have a book, and just live the story, I guess this is sort of the reverse :)
    Zen Arado: not identify with them, get so caught up in them
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes i dont want to detach, i want to see it while attached
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so to speak
    Bleu Oleander: we think we detach but who is doing the detaching?
    Bruce Mowbray: also, not to be the victims of our own emotional reaction patterns --- having our experience be fenced in a determined by theos reactive patterns.
    Bruce Mowbray: and determined by those*
    Zen Arado: don't know...just detachment happening
    Bruce Mowbray: Zen, is your meaning of 'detachment' close to 'liberation'?
    Bruce Mowbray: Does 'detachment' require that we "CUT THROU" whatever is attaching us -- or might it be simpler?
    Bleu Oleander ⊱ smiles ⊰
    Bruce Mowbray: cut through*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (thanks for the clarification of the word, i was using it in the dictionary definition with who am I now seeing) :)
    Bruce Mowbray love the blue flowers and is feeling attached to them!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not the buddhist sense
    Zen Arado: sorry
    Zen Arado: was doing something with alt
    Zen Arado: it is just not grasping to me
    Bruce Mowbray: byem Bleu!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu

    Zen Arado: letting go
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bleu

    druth Vlodovic: to just avoid things that you might get attached to leaves the mind untrained
    Zen Arado: cos we usually cling
    Zen Arado: I think
    Zen Arado: not avoiding
    Zen Arado: just opening the hand
    Wol Euler nods.
    Zen Arado: allowing things to pass?
    druth Vlodovic: allowing things to enter, linger perhaps, and leave on their time, even if they don't
    Wol Euler: that'
    Zen Arado: yeh seems more like it
    Bruce Mowbray loves "just opening the hand" --- and releasing it. (effortless)
    Wol Euler: that's a good image, Zen: not pushing away (hand vertical) but just holding your hand out (horizontal)
    Zen Arado: there's a zen book called 'Opening the hand of thought'
    Bruce Mowbray: no resistance -- to clinging -- no effort
    Bruce Mowbray: no clinging
    Zen Arado: yeh
    druth Vlodovic: I was reading something about "straightening hooks" of things we are attached to, but I don't see things as having hooks, just strings that I hold on to
    Zen Arado: we grab the pleSANT AND PUSH AWAY THE UNPLEASANT
    Bruce Mowbray: time for me to move on -- Thank you everyone for an enjoyable and thought-provoking discussion.
    Zen Arado: drat sorry caps
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bruce,
    enjoy the day, I think its cooler outside for you :)
    Wol Euler: bye bruce, take care
    Zen Arado: glad you seem a bit better
    SophiaSharon Larnia: drat missed him
    Zen Arado: :)
    Arisia Vita: I too must fly, rl calls, ty all for sharing with me, I am the wiser for it...
    Wol Euler: bye ari, enjoy the day
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye arisia, nice to see you
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy till we meet again
    Zen Arado: bye Arisia
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye ari
    Zen Arado: gtsy
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everryone
    Wol Euler: bye yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm off too have fun!!
    Zen Arado: bye all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: b4n
    Wol Euler: bye sharon :) you too; bye zen
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Wol Euler: I guess we're done for today :)
    druth Vlodovic: so it seems :)
    druth Vlodovic: have fun wol
    Wol Euler: bye druth, enjoy the day

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags

    Files 1

    FileSizeDateAttached by 
    No description
    97.05 kB21:36, 14 Jun 2011Riddle SidewaysActions
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core