Page last modified 19:25, 26 Jun 2011 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian for this session.*

Wol Euler: hello mary

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Hi Wol

--BELL--

Wol Euler: how are you this morning/evening?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I'm good; Winding the day down

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: How 'bout you?

Wol Euler: trying to wind my day up :)

Wol Euler: I slept badly and too little

Wol Euler: I'm actually thinking aboutgoing back to bed after this

Wol Euler: other than that, fine :)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, I've done that; slept only a few hours, then done some things in the morning and gone back to bed

Wol Euler: it wouldn't be so bad if I didn'T have to work this afternoon

Wol Euler: without that I could just drift through the day

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Work on a Sunday?

Wol Euler: yeah

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: What do you do?

Wol Euler: I'm an architect

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: oh, cool

Wol Euler: we are in the last stages of finishing a building site, opening is planned for early september

Wol Euler: but work should be finished at the beginning of august

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And is it going well?

Wol Euler: it's behind schedule, of course:)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, that's what I meant. lol

Wol Euler: resulting in the usual panic and casting of blame

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Rosalyn's mother took care of a boy who's now a man, and an architect. He does quite well for himself.

Wol Euler: we have 12 trades on site at the moment, and we have to coordinate and negotiate between them

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Hi Observem!

Wol Euler: with that many people around, even the question of who stows which materials where becomes heated

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: 12 trades? you mean Unions?

Wol Euler: mmmm, not necessarily unions as such

Wol Euler: companies, specialized contractors

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Not familiar with the term, then.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: ok, ok; we just call them contractors in the States. lol

Wol Euler: well, that's not exactly right. The point is that we distinguish them internally by what they do

Wol Euler: there is no general contractor, as is common in the US

Wol Euler: we wrote out 27 requests for tender for the specific tasks that had to be done

Wol Euler: i.e. concrete work, waterproofing (internal), waterproofing (external), tiling, painting and so on

Wol Euler: some companies took on more than one tender, but the majority just did one

Wol Euler: so there are all these guys running around, getting in each other's way

Wol Euler: and since the completion date is written in to their contract, with penalties for lateness, tempers are running high

Wol Euler: it's funny, what the general public thinks architects do, and what architecture students are taught to do, is about 20% of the job

Wol Euler: I spend entire days checking contractors' invoices

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, all this negotiation with contractors and paperwork is not something we think about

Wol Euler: proofing their material calculations against the tender and against our plans

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Just people doing cadcam and then building something. Like in SL. lol

Wol Euler: yep :)

Wol Euler: SL is so much easier :)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: you think?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: lol

Wol Euler: well ... it has its own challenges, sure

Wol Euler: we rarely have to deal with DMCA lawsuits :)

Wol Euler: but SL doesn't have to deal wiht rain or snow or gravity, or neighbours

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, not rain or snow, but yes, neighbors

Wol Euler: but they have no power here. If your neighbour hates your building, he can make your life hell by shouting at you, but that is all he can do

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Not to mention land covenants, bureaucrats

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Not so;, Wol.

Wol Euler: mm?

--BELL--

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: A freiind of mine who lived at Philosophy Island had neihbors who bitched to the Council; they came with their rule books and told him to return all his stuff

Wol Euler: huh

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Big confrontation between the SEnate Chair, the Council Chair, my friend; a builder; she cried and threatened to leave the sim; the Senate Chair had to publicly explain herself in a note card

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It was like living with a housing assoicaition and rules

Wol Euler smiles.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: So bureaucracy, neighbors trying to stop you, politics, the whole shebang

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Hi Qt!

Wol Euler: hello qt

Qt Core: hi wol, mary, observem

Wol Euler: funny, my impression is of the opposite: of jerks putting up huge signs 0.1 metres inside their borders, right in front of somebody's ocean view, and there being *allegedly* no recourse available

Wol Euler: ah, but the philosopher/builder was renting? not herself the land owner?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yeah, I guess it depends on the sim, but that would get you in trouble

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It was a he, he wasn't really a philosoppher, just liked discussions. But no, he was a land owner

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But subject to the sim Covenant

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Just like a gated community with a land owner's association

Wol Euler: oh, I see, so the she who cried was not the builder who was told to remove stuff. I misread that

Wol Euler: well in a way I am glad to hear that, I think it's a sign of SL maturing socially

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, I think she was told to remove stuff, but I think it was because of the conflict

Wol Euler: we are no longer in the wild west

Wol Euler: who is "she"?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Wol, fights and politics is a sign of maturity?

Wol Euler: yes :)

Wol Euler: believing that there are social rights and wrongs, and that these are worth adressing, is a sign of maturity

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, I suppose. They ran a scarlet woman out too (me).

Wol Euler: one need not fight about it

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, they fought incessantly at that sim

Wol Euler: but it's a step forward from the caveman days where I can do anything I wish and fuck you if you don't like it

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I suppose; wasn't here for those days in SL

Wol Euler: before the maturity ratings were enforced, people used to buy tiny plots of land and put up huge (tall) billboards on them

Wol Euler: with screaming-loud sound tracks that could be heard all over the sim

Wol Euler: and the Lindens were *allegedly* unable to intervene

Wol Euler: it was a form of blackmail.

Wol Euler: they'd place one of those opposite the entrance to your mall, then offer to sell you the land for US$250

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, of course they could intervene, had they wanted to

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: omg

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yeah, that would be a kind of extortion

Wol Euler: that was stamped down by my second year here

Wol Euler: but it did take that long for the Lab to recognize that it was a social issue

Qt Core: (oh the joy of being homeless)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling laughs at Qt

Wol Euler smiles.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I like my sim; when I first moved there, we had trouble with voyeurs.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: My neighbor rushed out naked and said "I guess you can tell I was having sex."

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I had to laugh; I was naked too, and *I hadn't* been having sex

Wol Euler: um, okaaaay

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Anyway, she had been cammed by our new neighbors

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And they were commenting on her technique with her husband in open chat

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: One IM to the estate manager and they were gone.

Wol Euler: good

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Even though they had rented there

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I picked that sim, actually because there had been a misunderstanding that they had with me and my girlfriend

Qt Core: thinking about sex with sport-like commenting... and 0-10 voting afterward by experts ;-)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: They thought she was abusing me, but we were just playing a game.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: They offered to ban her from the sim; i was to just say the word. They were offering me a safe haven.

Wol Euler: which is good, in itself.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah

Wol Euler: the intention was right

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And my very first week in SL I came across this sim, and the club manager made me feel so welcome, i came back and then rented there. When I told her that, she was in tears, she was so happy that she had made that impression on me.

Wol Euler smiles.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And it was funny; I left that sim, and took up at Philosophy Island; when I was booted from there, I came back to ED, and it was like coming home.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, it was coming home, not just like it.

Wol Euler nods and smiles

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And now, with me there, we are the No. 1 philosophy sim, even though that's not it's primary purpose

Wol Euler: I wonder ... qt, you don't have a place to live in SL. What is your sense of "home" here?

Wol Euler: do you hve one? where is it?

Wol Euler: what makes it?

--BELL--

Qt Core: as i almost spend all my time in two places, here and at a couple of friend place/shop, i can say i really have two homes :-)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: So it's where you feel you belong?

Wol Euler: do they feel like "home"?

Wol Euler: yes, belonging is a good word

Qt Core: yes, belonging may be the word, as it isn't just the place but the people

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yes. That was my point, really

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And in SL, it has to be the people; the rest is artwork

Qt Core: those two friends (that are a couple, at least in sl) when set up sitting area always put up three chairs, and say that the third is mine

Wol Euler smiles.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Oh, that's nice

Wol Euler whispers "wb" to Obs

Qt Core: in the end i come to think to what sl calls Home only as my Entry Point, i even thought of moving it here, but then you know, sometimes one get in sl and want some private time to check im and choose what to do next

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: hi Obs!

Wol Euler: yeah, true

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yeah, that's part of home; i like to change and get oriented in private

Qt Core: that is one of the few pro of a home (and changing clothes, if you need to do it and don't want to be naked)

Wol Euler nods.

Qt Core: (in open view, that is)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yeah, I just hate being naked in front of people. lol

Wol Euler: heheheh

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But actually, changing clothes, or trying on new feet, or cchanging avatars; i'd rather do that in private

Wol Euler: well, I agree, there is discomfort in being *unintentionally* naked in unexpected times or places

Wol Euler: right

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But someone told me a trick, if you don't want to be naked in public an change--go up to about 3000 meters

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Do it there

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yes, to be unexpectedly naked, or to change clothes is discomforting

Qt Core: a few months ago i spent quite the time trying things from my inventory in public, near my entry point, almost no one around but some may have enjoyed the silli show :-)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: One time, i was putting on a Burka, and had this one place as my home but it really wasn't. Just my entry point. Someone came in, having seen an avatar on the map, and saw me in a burka, instead of naked, which was my usual appearance. She was embarassed and scrambled out.

Wol Euler: heheh, that is a nice statement

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Qt, yes, if you want to put on a show, that's the way to do it

Qt Core: you don't know moderation, mary ;-)

Wol Euler: heheheheh

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Qt, I take moderation in moderation

Qt Core: ;)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But a buka and nudity both are the opposite sides of the same coin; women who--voluntarily--wear burkas are challenging menn not to treat them as objects; which is my purpose too.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Right, Wol? How was your burka experience?

Wol Euler smiles.

Qt Core: like my cube , Wol

Wol Euler: it was interesting, though I didn't stay human and wrapped long enough to really test it

Wol Euler: the burka polarizes, no doubt about that

Wol Euler: it provokes more and stronger reactions than my fetishy outfits

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It can

Wol Euler: which I find kinda funny

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I've worn a burka at Blckheart's, and no one cared one way or the other

Wol Euler: wearing it needs to be explained

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, i find nudity polarizes too. And I find it funny

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yes, as does wearing nothing.

Wol Euler: it's assumed to have a meaning, and people ask about that

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Ditto

Wol Euler: as a garment, I liked it

Qt Core: wondering, how is easy to get if under a sl burka there is a man or a woman ?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: irl, it is very comfortable

Wol Euler: I enjoyed the concealment, much as I also like revealing

Wol Euler: qt, apparently it is very easy *if* you are used to seeing them

Wol Euler: because men and women move differently

Wol Euler: even under a burka

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yes, and that is emulated by your AO

Qt Core: if i only were a little more social (even here in sl) it would be an interesting expewriment ?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, look at egg and his dress; he's clearly a man in a dress, or as a date of mine said "a bloody dress," when he saw him

Wol Euler: well, let me give you a landmark to a free burka set :)

--BELL--

Wol Euler: mind you, it would be much harder to do that experiment in SL, with nametags and profiles and all

Wol Euler: hard to avoid knowing who somebody is

Qt Core: yes, but then one would have to actively search for it

Qt Core: seeing this funny image of mary (in current attire) and someone in a burka walking around side by side

Wol Euler: we could do that.

Wol Euler: (when I'm human)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: That's a great idea, Wol

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: let's go sim hopping that way.

Qt Core: and then if the burked one is a male that would be almost like antimatter ;-)

Wol Euler: heheheh

Wol Euler: :)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Qt, lol

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, if you wanted anonymity and to do it Wol, you could use an alt

Wol Euler: true

Qt Core: (but then it may be taken as insulting, even not by extremist)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But I think the experiment should be with your primary, to see if there is any differennce in attitude toward you

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I know when I'm a male avi, and people know it's me, they still sometimes treat me differently

Wol Euler nods.

Qt Core: sometimes it may not be instinctive, just respecting your current choice and going along with it

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Not always. It was funny; I went to a sim where one of my alts was banned, but others were not 9and the sim owner knew they were all me) and I went to one discussion; they guy running it used my name, not the name of the burly male alt, and the alt had an androgynous name, could have a female form, and he used that to address me.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: So here was this hulking guy being treated like a woman.

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: I try not to do that, personally; I try to treat the person as the avatar is presenting

Wol Euler: and not to know what I cannot see

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Wol, you're one of the sane ones

Wol Euler: because it really annoys me when people wrong-gender my avs

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, me too; although I'm getting better at that

Qt Core: there are already so much thing to wrong people with...

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Qt, that's for sure

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I hang out at philosophy sims, and there was this one avatar who had an affair with the sim admin of one of them. It was torrid, and the guy was really happy; had had two bad experiences with women before--won't even acknoledge that he was married, the marriage was so bad. Turns out the avatar was a man, and married at that; this avatar also played games with other people

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: To discredit me, one of the trolls circulated a rumor I was this guy; convinced some people that I was male; made them have hysterics around me, although it didn't seem to hurt me any (although it may have contributed to my being banned from one of tghe sims; don't know)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It was wierd being treated as a guy; got one of the people SL suspended because he'd sexuallyharass me on that basis.

Qt Core: getting an headache just reading it...

Wol Euler: :)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: lol

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Imagine living through it

--BELL--

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But you know the saddest thing?

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Tell you after the bell

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: The saddest thing was when a friend of the guy--I'll call him [redacted] , as that's his RL name--IM'd me, so excited. He thought his friend was back.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It crushed him when I told him his friend was still gone from SL. He said, "If you're lying, may there be a special place in hell for you." Isn't that sad?

Wol Euler: a strong friendship

Qt Core: yes, the crushing of faith in people always is

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, it took me aback, as I had only heard negative things about [redacted]; but apparently some people loved him/her

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: I think it is very sad to lose a friend like that

Qt Core: time to leave for chaffeur and cooking (and eating) duties

Wol Euler smiles

Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy the day

Wol Euler: and try that burka

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: bye, Qt

Qt Core: i'll try, and you two try to have fun

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Yeah, I'd love to see a man in a burka

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: always, Qt

Qt Core: |)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, we got into some interesting concepts--what's home, for instance

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: a very significant question, I think

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: semoitics of clothing (or the lack)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yes, it is

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: and the alleged significance of RL identity in SL

Wol Euler: um, say perhaps "proclaimed" instead of alleged

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yes, and of gender

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: which I don't get, but I know that many do see a great importance there

Wol Euler: when I am in SL, I look at SL

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: well, I think it's because a lot of people come here for sex and love

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And are freaked out by same sex relations

Wol Euler: agreed

Wol Euler: but what is the relation?

Wol Euler: my SL sexuality is from avatar to avatar

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yes, and that is the way it should be

Wol Euler: I actively disregard what I might know of RL

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And if you love someone, why should that change, if their gender has?

Wol Euler: if you present as male, then you are male to me. End of statement.

Wol Euler: right

Wol Euler points to her t-shirt

Wol Euler: "love knows no gender"

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: In fact, that one guy who had the affair with [redacted]? He wasn't upset to much by her being a him as much as that *he* was married

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yes, love knows no gender

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I like that

Wol Euler: right, I understand that

Wol Euler: I'd offer you one but ... :)

Wol Euler: perhaps you could get it as a tattoo

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: oh, and it's a part of psychologicy now, at least clinical, that you accept a person's gender presentation

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: lol

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, a tattoo.

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Here in sl, they do come off. lol

Wol Euler: (to accepting gender presentation)

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: right

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It's more a male thing, I think. I heard of one woman who fell in love with another woman, thinking she was a man; when she found out the truth, she still loved him; men, on the other hand, tend to beat up the 'woman' they once loved.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Like 'how dare you have a penis!'

Wol Euler: I think women are far more open to experience(s) than men

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Far more into the relationship, I think

Wol Euler: men see in black and white, women know colours

Wol Euler: and yes, that is very true

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And they are hung up on their own fears that they may not be masculine enough

Wol Euler: yep!

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: OMG! I'm gay! I love a man. Gulp

Wol Euler: my gods, that one burns right through society and culture

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: He had nice tits though

Wol Euler: heheheheheh

--BELL--

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I think I may come more often in this shape and form; I was being inundated with IM's and people wanting me to come to parties, or see their builds, or their new sims, that I needed to come this way. Only about six people know who I am, and one of them tends to think all female avi's she doesn't know is me.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It allowed for more quiet time.

Wol Euler laughs.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, speaking of sad; she really hates me; so when she goes to some event she really wants to go to, and I'm there, she poofs immediately

Wol Euler: a kind friend should introduce her to the "mute" button

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: She's the one who banned me from Pi; it seems that she may have exiled me from the sim, but she's now exiled from SL, as she can't go anywhere without running into me

Wol Euler: ha

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Wol, yeah, but the trouble with that is that I talk a lot

Wol Euler: ... and people respond. right.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Any conversation I'm in will make no sense if I'm muted.

Wol Euler: yah, it's an imperfect tool

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It's a little silly to let a personal prejudice interfere with your enjoyment of SL, if you ask me.

Wol Euler: what are humans if not silly

Wol Euler: we are lousy at making value comparisons

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I mean it's not like I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears, stick my tongue out and make funny faces at her all through the event.

Wol Euler: delight of attending a concert versus nagging annoyance that mary is there too, somewhere in the back? skip the delightful concert

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, exactly.

Wol Euler: like the famous monkey trap :)

Wol Euler: lowest-tech, based on value rigidity

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Monkey trap?

Wol Euler: ah :)

Wol Euler: the way to catch monkeys is to get a big jar, too tough to break and too heavy to carry off

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, you finally hit something I don't know. lol

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: ohhhh.

Wol Euler: the neck of which is just a little wider than a monkey's wrist

Wol Euler: and put fruit in it

Wol Euler: monkey reaches in to get the fruit, and is caught

Wol Euler: because its hand around the fruit is wider than when the hand was empty, so it can't get its hand back out

Wol Euler: you just walk up nice and slowly and grab it

Wol Euler: the monkey is caught because of value rigidity

Wol Euler: it cannot say "my freedom is worth more than a banana, I will let go and run away"

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: A nice analogy. Value rigidity

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: not my expression, I read it somewhere

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: So onto one last, extremely important topic, before I leave. And that's my feet. lol

Wol Euler: heheheheh

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: What do you think of them?

Wol Euler: I noticed your toe ring

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: here' I'll stand

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, this one came with a toe ring

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: But the color? Fits my skin perfectly, doesn t it?

Wol Euler: yes, a very close match

Wol Euler: you seem to be standing on tiptoe ...

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, these are tiip toes

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: They seem to match better and be more natural

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: I tried the flat foot

Wol Euler: it's funny, one of my oddities is that I have to count the fingers and toes

Wol Euler: I always think that there are too many or too few, until I've counted them

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: And if anything happened? Like a inadvertantly used V2 and were thrown back to an earlier form, it would take hours to get the colors right

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: huh, sounds slightly like an obsesssion/compulsion Wol

Wol Euler: yeah, I'd admit that :)

Wol Euler: but to be clear, I don't do it every three minutes

Wol Euler: not even daily. I've seen your feet before and didn't count them.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Well, that's a relief

Wol Euler: but if I *notice* fingers or toes then I count them

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, so my toe ring is my only adornment in this avatar

Wol Euler nods.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: huh, i wonder if they'll alow me in the Wild Coast with a toe ring.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: They don't let you in with shoes, which leaves out my sister, as she refuses to be ccaught dead barefoot.

Wol Euler: huh

Wol Euler: well that is definitely not a shoe

--BELL--

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, i'll ask first before shelling out the 400L

Wol Euler: oh, that place

Wol Euler: heh

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, that place

Wol Euler: I went there, looked, and thought "L$400 to stand on your beach? no way"

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: It's not all that anyway

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: yeah, pretty much

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: There are other, equally nice, places for free

Wol Euler: it didn't even look prettier than any other I know

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Eden naturist resort for instance

*A few lines were removed here at Mary's request.*

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: well, it's getting late, so i think i'll be off

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: Thanks for hosting this, Wol

Wol Euler: yw, thank you for your thoughts, mary

Wol Euler: take care, sleep well

MaryMagdeleine Shilling: you have a great rest of the day.

MaryMagdeleine Shilling waves and poofs

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