2011.06.29 13:00 - Love

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    The Guardian for this meeting was No Self. The comments are by No Self.

    Arisia Vita: Hi all!
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Ari :)))
    Dash Earthboy: hey Ari
    Chi Aho: Hello all again, I was on the phone with the plumber
    Dash Earthboy: quiet here today
    Dash Earthboy: plumber Chi?
    Korel Laloix: In a few IMs.
    Chi Aho: nothing like a leak from the shower upstairs to the living room ceiling downstairs
    Korel Laloix: wow.... the only time I have been here when majorly more men than women.
    Dash Earthboy: awww
    Dash Earthboy: we're not sexist about it HONEST :)
    Korel Laloix grins... just different.
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    Dash Earthboy: has somebody claimed the session?
    FcSeeker Resident: :)
    Dash Earthboy: i didn't look to see who at the schedule?
    Dash Earthboy: Bruce is here :)
    Dash Earthboy: another male Korel :)
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bruce
    Chi Aho: hi, Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fc, Dash, Chi, Korel, Dar, Zaldaan. . . (hope I'm not leaving anyone out!)
    Dash Earthboy: you could just say "youuns" :)
    Bruce Mowbray: OH! Arisia -- HELLO!
    Arisia Vita: :)
    Korel Laloix: or y'all
    Dash Earthboy: who'll claim this session?
    Korel Laloix: Wrestle for it.
    Dash Earthboy: heheh
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm happy to claim it -- but isn't there a guardian assigned to it?
    Dash Earthboy: not sure Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: I will claim it unter the regular guardian for the session arrived.
    Dash Earthboy: i didn't look at the schedule :)
    Bruce Mowbray: arrives.
    Dash Earthboy: ty Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yw, Dash.
    Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a minute -- carry on, please.
    Dash Earthboy: okeedokee
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Dash Earthboy: doh
    FcSeeker Resident: smiles to this 'carry on' :)
    Dash Earthboy: carry it on, carry it on :)
    FcSeeker Resident: aint it the army way to say ?
    FcSeeker Resident: (learned so from the American movies)
    Bruce Mowbray: (back)
    FcSeeker Resident: wb Bruce
    Dash Earthboy: quiet here today
    Korel Laloix: Carry on is a rather Armyish thing to say.
    Dash Earthboy: oops i'm repeating myself
    Bruce Mowbray can hear the music of the spheres today.
    Korel Laloix: I did Army ROTC for a semester and they seemed to say that a lot.
    Fefonz Quan: hi all!
    Korel Laloix: osiyo
    Dash Earthboy: hey Fefonz
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Fefonz
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Fef.
    Fefonz Quan: hey Bruce, hope I didn't pushed you over there :)
    Dash Earthboy: was this to be Fef's session? just curious :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Caledonia.
    Korel Laloix: Thank good ness.
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Caledonia
    Fefonz Quan: yep :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yayyy for Fef !
    FcSeeker Resident: anybody knows how my gf is ?
    Chi Aho: who is she?
    Dash Earthboy: :)
    FcSeeker Resident: look at my profile please
    FcSeeker Resident: Hokon Cazalet takes care of her
    Chi Aho: Teddy and Toddy?
    FcSeeker Resident: smiles
    Caledonia Heron: hi :) slow rez sorry
    Korel Laloix: Very laggy today.
    Dash Earthboy: hi caledonia
    Bruce Mowbray: wb, Caledonia.
    Fefonz Quan: hello Cal
    Bruce Mowbray: We were chatting about the expression "carry on" earlier. . . .
    Caledonia Heron: hey Fefonz :)
    Bruce Mowbray: When we do our 90-sec drops. I'm in the custom of saying to myself, put down what you are carrying so that you can see what is carrying everything (if anything is).
    Bruce Mowbray: Does space carry us?
    Bruce Mowbray: Does time carry us?
    Bruce Mowbray: Do our concepts of things carry us?
    Dash Earthboy: speaking of carrying on...it's a little shocking that out of all of the animals in the over 300 species classified as extinct, none remain to carry on
    Bruce Mowbray: So, Dash, perhaps existence itself carries us -- or does not.
    Caledonia Heron: lol, it's this shared blurry lens we all sort of agree to :)
    Chi Aho: If you mean why we don't fall through the floor with all that empty space inside the atoms, they say it is magnetism that holds us up, but isn't that a kind of energy (spirit)?
    Bruce Mowbray: Someone has IMs me saying that is it love that carries us.
    Caledonia Heron: electricity :)
    Korel Laloix: We had teh definition of love discussion a couple of days ago.
    FcSeeker Resident: I agree with such people who say so
    Bruce Mowbray: Someone just Im'd me saying it is LOVE that carries us.
    Caledonia Heron: the perfect blend of physics and the meta
    Dash Earthboy: *wishes love could give us back the extinct species :)
    Chi Aho: dinos?
    Dash Earthboy: thinking like a tennis player, i don't see how ZERO carries us ?
    Fefonz Quan: I wouldn't equal energy annd spiriti in that sense Chi
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Dash gave us a definition -- but I'm guessing that love (like vertually everything else) is NOT definable.
    Dash Earthboy: haha
    Caledonia Heron: you know if when you feel it :)
    Dash Earthboy: not definable
    Chi Aho: Love is giving.
    Caledonia Heron: when if is given and received
    Caledonia Heron: *it
    Dash Earthboy: sanctuary for anarchists
    Korel Laloix: What?
    Caledonia Heron: passing through, thanks for thought nuggets :)
    FcSeeker Resident: it is giving even if only one self loves
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Cal.
    FcSeeker Resident: meaning; even if is not loved in return
    Bruce Mowbray: I agree, Fc -- good point.
    FcSeeker Resident: and imo...when your loved in return, it multiplies all good
    FcSeeker Resident: that we can even 'fly'....
    Chi Aho: brb
    Korel Laloix: YOu mean infatuation?
    Korel Laloix: No idea how to spell that word.
    FcSeeker Resident: (needs his wordbook)
    FcSeeker Resident: ah no
    FcSeeker Resident: I'm speaking about genuine love
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello arabella
    Bruce Mowbray: you spelled it right, Korel.
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Ara!
    Dash Earthboy: speak to us of genuine love Fc
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Ara.
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    Dash Earthboy: hey ara
    FcSeeker Resident: speakeing about that 'heaven' which lasts forewer, grows with sharing and only gives
    FcSeeker Resident: such kind of love
    FcSeeker Resident: infatuation can rise from mind
    FcSeeker Resident: love rises from heart
    FcSeeker Resident: but sure infatuation also is wonderfull motion
    Korel Laloix: True... but the first couple of weeks of a new relationshp is such a wonder.... I love the infatuation phase if that is the right word.
    Korel Laloix: I just love those feelings and rushes.
    FcSeeker Resident: I feel that you use the very right word
    Bruce Mowbray: Does anything carry the love -- I mean, does space, time, or perhaps some sense of "eternity-divinity" carry the love - when we are not able to?
    FcSeeker Resident: and THAT makes one to fly also even if is not loved in return...at least for a while
    FcSeeker Resident: to you Bruce I'de say yes
    Fefonz Quan: unreturned infatuation can be very painful
    FcSeeker Resident: when ever you wish that you could love, you are helped to do that
    FcSeeker Resident: when ever
    Korel Laloix: That is true... but when it is mutual... wow.
    FcSeeker Resident: ah yes :)))))))))))))))))))))
    FcSeeker Resident: I am still carried much with my own infatuation to my gf, even I met her only a moment
    FcSeeker Resident: that moment shall never go away
    Dash Earthboy: the Stones said "love that's real will not fade away..."
    Fefonz Quan: or is it infatuation with this moment?
    FcSeeker Resident: I have us in the pictgure in my profile and can remind me when ever of that moment too
    Bruce Mowbray: (so did Buddy Holly).
    FcSeeker Resident: can join that moment to this moment
    Chi Aho: Google the song "Love is Something that You Do" and the meaning of love will be clear from its lyrics.
    FcSeeker Resident: and think how rare such even is to the toy that ever happenes
    FcSeeker Resident: that I am so lucky makes me to feel even better
    FcSeeker Resident: even if I never meet her again
    Bruce Mowbray: I am happy for you, Fc.
    FcSeeker Resident: hmmm
    arabella Ella: i am happy for you too!
    FcSeeker Resident: what might the be the doning which I do loving her
    arabella Ella: and altho i wish to stay i am afraid i must leave now so bye everyone!
    FcSeeker Resident: but that can be that I turn my mind to remember her
    Korel Laloix: ciao bella
    FcSeeker Resident: wishes you to enjoy your t ime arabella
    arabella Ella: thnks!
    Fefonz Quan: BYE ARA!
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Ara.
    FcSeeker Resident: so....is it so that I feel infatination to her doing that she came to me and showed that she at least likes me
    FcSeeker Resident: and that she gave such rare experiment to me
    FcSeeker Resident: I think and feel also that she gave rare experiment to all who was present
    FcSeeker Resident: that there was even this will to take this picture that I can share this special moment with anybody I meet
    FcSeeker Resident: so she is very special lady :))))
    FcSeeker Resident: ...me alone here now ?
    Arisia Vita: never alone
    FcSeeker Resident: smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: No, we're listening to you and happy for you.
    Korel Laloix: I think the infatuation phase is there so we can overlook the other person's flaws until we get to know them... smiles
    FcSeeker Resident: thank you
    Chi Aho: I believe infatuation to be entirely different from love.
    FcSeeker Resident: indeed
    Korel Laloix: But maybe a seed for love?
    Korel Laloix: Or maybe fertilizer?... grins
    FcSeeker Resident: smiles
    Dash Earthboy: *thinks stalking behavior may spring from infatuation, but never from love*
    Bruce Mowbray: In rare cases, a couple might remain infatuated with each other their entire lives.
    Chi Aho: Infatuation may lead one toward the romantic concept of love, but I do not believe that it in itself will lead one to being a loving giving person.
    Korel Laloix: Stalking is very different from infactuation.... many more layers than that I think.
    Korel Laloix: I think infatuation is very selfish ... but not intentionlly.
    Bruce Mowbray: Tomorr in the Ways of Knowing group, we'll be talking about a part of this -- monogamy . . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Korel -- That's what we'll be discussing tomorrow -- jealousy and monogamy in relationships.
    Fefonz Quan: /ma nods to Chi
    Fefonz Quan: /me
    Chi Aho: Monogamy is o.k. just marry one at a time
    FcSeeker Resident: imo there's difference betweeen selfishness and being infactuated
    FcSeeker Resident: the keyword's are
    FcSeeker Resident: to share
    Dash Earthboy: Chi, you speak of serial monogamy?
    FcSeeker Resident: when you are infactuated you want to share
    FcSeeker Resident: that is not to be selfish
    Chi Aho: jokingly yes
    Dash Earthboy: as opposed to multiple life partners simultaneously?
    Chi Aho: ugh
    Bruce Mowbray: (I'm assuming that jealousy would be part of the 'selfishness' you refer to, Korel.)
    Korel Laloix: Could be... would have to think about that though.
    FcSeeker Resident: and when one feels jealousy---which is very understandable concerning human beings---that do not rise from love, but selfishness
    Korel Laloix: I was thinking more..... when I am infatuated.... I have noticed this in me.... I imagine what that person can do for me or with me (not talking sexual)
    FcSeeker Resident: thinks also that selfisness rises from fears
    Korel Laloix: I really don't day dream about what I can do for her.
    Chi Aho: Isn't jealousy fear of losing something that you have?
    FcSeeker Resident: yes
    FcSeeker Resident: and because nowbody can ever truly own any other spirit, one can never either lost anyone
    Fefonz Quan: But could we be infatuated with life itself?
    FcSeeker Resident: why not ?
    Chi Aho: Yes, Fc, but you do have the relationship.
    Korel Laloix: Not under my definition.
    Fefonz Quan: The bummer is, regular infatuation has a very obvious object to clling to
    Korel Laloix: Yes... but the next bit after the infatuation is great as well... smiles
    Fefonz Quan: hmmm...
    FcSeeker Resident: (have I that but in my mind ?)
    Korel Laloix: Then you get to start opening up and really getting to know.
    Chi Aho: I have heard it said that everyone who marries marries a stranger.
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Wol :)
    Dash Earthboy: hey Wol :)
    Chi Aho: Hello, Wol
    Korel Laloix: heya
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Fefonz Quan: (In the old testimony 'knowing' has severak meaninigs
    Fefonz Quan: )
    FcSeeker Resident: we have wonderfull topic here today Wol
    FcSeeker Resident: love
    Wol Euler: sorry I'm late, just got in fromwork
    Korel Laloix: Well... infatuation.
    FcSeeker Resident: that also
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Wol!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol.
    Wol Euler smiles a general greeting to all
    Korel Laloix: Looks like Wol killed the conversation.... smiles
    Wol Euler: ah well
    Korel Laloix: We were talking about you actually...
    Wol Euler: ok, I'll leave soi you can continue
    FcSeeker Resident: or added love in himself to it and we got a moment of wordfull silence
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps it is infatuation that carries us - after all.
    Dash Earthboy: i believe the desire to have something all to oneself is the foundation of monogamy
    Korel Laloix grins
    Korel Laloix: I think I dissagree with you dash.
    Bruce Mowbray: There's too much of subject-object polarity in the jealousy stuff.
    FcSeeker Resident: (wishes from the bottom of his heart that Wol dont go away even she is not my gf, but I love her also)
    Dash Earthboy: in college in Utah, I went with three g/f's everywhere together
    Bruce Mowbray lilstens for more from Korel.
    Wol Euler: awwwwwwwwwwww
    Dash Earthboy: people thought I was LDS :)
    Wol Euler: ty, fc, just for that I will stay
    Korel Laloix: I think it is a natural draw to intensity of feeling... and spreading it out in more than one person decreases the depth.
    Korel Laloix: So we naturally drift toward monogomy.
    FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
    Dash Earthboy: and experienced real love
    Bruce Mowbray: for the information of those who do not already know - LDS is Latter Day Saints.
    Bruce Mowbray: Mormons -- who (some) believe in having several wives.
    FcSeeker Resident: also muslims do so
    Chi Aho: Weren't these gf's "vanilla" friends?
    Dash Earthboy: no
    Dash Earthboy: and I wasn't leading a cult either :)
    Korel Laloix: lol
    Chi Aho: platonic love, then
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Dash Earthboy: no Chi
    FcSeeker Resident: you didn't ?
    Bruce Mowbray: I need to "carry on" with real life now.
    Dash Earthboy: not just platonic love
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for this interesting discussion.
    Dash Earthboy: bye Bruce
    Chi Aho: see you, Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: May all be well and ahppy with whatever infatuates you.
    Korel Laloix: Ciao
    Wol Euler: bye bruce, take care
    FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your day Bruce
    Dash Earthboy: you too Bruce
    FcSeeker Resident: :)
    Fefonz Quan: take care bruce
    Dash Earthboy: Chi the love I found in Utah helped me formulate my definition
    Dash Earthboy: the definition I hold to as immutable
    Korel Laloix: I think people have very different expereinces with love.
    Korel Laloix: So they have different definitions.
    FcSeeker Resident: then they have experiences of something that is not genuine love
    FcSeeker Resident: experiences of genuine love are similart
    FcSeeker Resident: similar
    Dash Earthboy: yes Korel but IMHO it's important to know what you mean by "love" if we are to have any meaningful dialogue on it
    Chi Aho: your definition again, dash?
    Fefonz Quan would like to refer to Eros ans Agape
    Dash Earthboy: ok Chi, here it are
    Dash Earthboy: "a pro-active concern for the well-being of the object of one's attention"
    Fefonz Quan: http://www.sjchurchofchrist.org/agape.shtml
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Zon Kwan: hey hey
    Dash Earthboy: anything else is a variation on the theme
    Dash Earthboy: or icing on the cake :)
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Zon
    Chi Aho: Dash, I would have a pro-active concern for the well being of my boss
    Dash Earthboy: but love is certainly definable
    Chi Aho: Well, I think it means different things to different people.
    Zon Kwan: why should it be
    Korel Laloix: I think it is definable, but figuring out how it is applied is difficult.
    Zon Kwan: just feel it
    Dash Earthboy: Chi, what does it mean to you?
    FcSeeker Resident: maybe that could help somebody to know it Zon
    Chi Aho: Love is giving.
    Zon Kwan: to define it ?
    Zon Kwan: hm
    FcSeeker Resident: yes
    Dash Earthboy: Zon, if love is only a "feeling" it is empty
    Zon Kwan: hm
    Zon Kwan: only a feeling ?
    Chi Aho: You do it; it is something that you do; you don't intellectualize about it, you just do it
    Zon Kwan: is it a thought then ?
    FcSeeker Resident: emptyness can be great power
    Zon Kwan: love is the feeling of unity
    Zon Kwan: its not a word
    Zon Kwan: a feeling
    FcSeeker Resident: true
    FcSeeker Resident: it is not a word
    Fefonz Quan nods. In a way it is a change in one's point of view
    Dash Earthboy: and that is where we find discord among the nations
    Zon Kwan: it has to be experienced
    FcSeeker Resident: so very true that too
    Fefonz Quan: outside the pros and cons of the doings for the ego
    FcSeeker Resident: your words brings imo the main issue of love Fefonz
    Zon Kwan: an thinking level love cannot be understood
    FcSeeker Resident: 'outside the ego'
    Fefonz Quan: (level love?)
    FcSeeker Resident: feels that to be also very good expression Fefonz
    FcSeeker Resident: are you special master of words ?
    Wol Euler excuses herself and slips away to bed.
    Zon Kwan: i cant think i love someone, i either love or i dont
    Wol Euler: too tired, sorry
    Fefonz Quan: night Wol!
    Dash Earthboy: g'nite Wol :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care
    FcSeeker Resident: have very good night Wol
    Korel Laloix: ciao
    Zon Kwan: nite
    Fefonz Quan: any answer will contradict your question Fc :)
    Chi Aho: brb
    FcSeeker Resident: oh
    FcSeeker Resident: even 'yes' ?
    Zon Kwan: a good answer always destroys the question
    Fefonz Quan: that will show low mastery of the ego, wou.ldn't it? ;-)
    FcSeeker Resident: o.k.
    FcSeeker Resident: well...imo all would have good reasons to be honest of one's self also for special good things
    FcSeeker Resident: but I think that you teached me something again
    Fefonz Quan: And a good question will carry you on for a long way even without the answer Zon
    Zon Kwan: when there is no question at all..the mind is quiet
    FcSeeker Resident: is there a difference with the meaning of words 'silence' and 'quiet' ?
    Fefonz Quan: or - when the mind is quiet - is there still a need for answers?
    FcSeeker Resident: think not
    Zon Kwan: or questions
    FcSeeker Resident: think not them either
    Fefonz Quan: seems like both Zon and I are talking about their last names here
    Zon Kwan: is there then ..love ?
    FcSeeker Resident: there is
    FcSeeker Resident: because love is everywhere
    FcSeeker Resident: there is no life without love
    FcSeeker Resident: that may be my religion too for sure
    Fefonz Quan: I sure hope so. yet still need to find out
    Fefonz Quan: ( to Zon)
    Dash Earthboy: i experienced real love
    FcSeeker Resident: I have met even the black whole state and even there is love
    Zon Kwan: how do u know
    Dash Earthboy: what others may call love does not have integrity if gazed upon too long
    Zon Kwan: how to know its "real"
    Dash Earthboy: and i know what is real and what is true
    Zon Kwan: how
    FcSeeker Resident: imo only own experience can answer to your question Zon
    Dash Earthboy: and i know that reality is not the same as truth
    Zon Kwan: so it is a feeling ?
    Dash Earthboy: how do i know?
    FcSeeker Resident: I agree completely with you Dash
    Zon Kwan: all i can know is what i feel
    FcSeeker Resident: but maybe this kind of 'answer' can help to know about
    Dash Earthboy: ah Zon such fragility
    FcSeeker Resident: when ever you feel the truth you feel also the 'quiet' /silence
    FcSeeker Resident: where you dont have any questions left
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Dash Earthboy: i try to foster integrity
    Dash Earthboy: integrity is strength
    FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
    Dash Earthboy: discord between word and deed indicates a lack of integrity
    Dash Earthboy: when one knows in one's heart and mind the same knowledge, that is wisdom
    FcSeeker Resident: aha
    Dash Earthboy: that is not ego
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: a metafeling
    Korel Laloix: Take care all...
    FcSeeker Resident: enjoy your time Korel
    Zon Kwan: bye all
    Fefonz Quan: Bye korel
    FcSeeker Resident: you too Zon
    Dash Earthboy: bye
    Fefonz Quan: and good night all, it's getting late and i should carry on :)
    Chi Aho: Clint Black: Love is Something that We Do
    Korel Laloix: IN Durango CO today.
    Dash Earthboy: wow Korel !!
    Arisia Vita: I must fly too...
    Dash Earthboy: take care Fefonz
    Dash Earthboy: bye Arisia
    Fefonz Quan: take care all _/|\_
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy

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