2011.08.21 19:00 - in which Truth seems to need Play

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Calvino Rabeni looks around to see who is here
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Susan and Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, Susan and pandabear, hello :)
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Frenchie
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi
    FcSeeker Resident: hi Bertrum
    Frenchie Riverstone: :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: so bright here :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah yes Frenchie ... if we like, we could all set our viewers to show "Midnight" and sit here in a more mysterious setting
    FcSeeker Resident: <3
    Calvino Rabeni: <3
    Frenchie Riverstone: midnight?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, SL viewer can set the lighting as if it were night time
    Calvino Rabeni: but it depends on which viewer
    Bertrum Resident: hi everyone
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Frenchie Riverstone: it is dark here in RL
    Calvino Rabeni: it might be a good idea to match the SL "time of day" with the RL one? To create less confusion for the brain
    Calvino Rabeni: So I would set it to "sunset"
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the idea, that everyone here has the same setting
    Calvino Rabeni: to achieve a mood that is shared
    Calvino Rabeni: (so many choices) :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: i like here with water and fountain and fish and birds
    Frenchie Riverstone: is nice
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the air that RL has at night time, during summer
    FcSeeker Resident: hi Roger

    iwandertoo Resident: yes :)
    Calvino Rabeni: SL doesn't have a scent, to me, but, I find a nice effect when setting to "full screen" and "midnight light"
    Bertrum Resident: Does the screen setting affect how you feel?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yup
    Calvino Rabeni: how about for you?
    Bertrum Resident: Not so much. What about you, FC, Frenchie, Roger, Susan?
    FcSeeker Resident: to me it sure affects because I am more here than in my RL body
    Frenchie Riverstone: i like to see about
    Calvino Rabeni: Does it help to dim the RL lights or set things in a certain way?
    Frenchie Riverstone: at music concerts is often dark tho
    Frenchie Riverstone: Kate says make setting dark to enjoy the music
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Frenchie Riverstone: yet we dance at times also
    Bertrum Resident: Should SL settings mirror one's real-time RL setting?
    FcSeeker Resident: imo it's for each one to choose
    Calvino Rabeni: If it helps create a feeling one likes, I suppose then yes
    Frenchie Riverstone: i come to listen and to see here
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure I agree Fc, although, maybe it is something people might not notice to give themselves a choice about it?
    FcSeeker Resident: ah; that is not good then
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah Frenchie, do you like to wander far around with camming?
    Frenchie Riverstone: camming?
    Frenchie Riverstone: i enjoy for to walk
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, that one can "travel" far with the view point, away from the avatar
    Calvino Rabeni: like out of body astral travel :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: i am here as avatar no?
    FcSeeker Resident: thank you Calvino for that
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I see you as avatar
    Frenchie Riverstone: ok
    Frenchie Riverstone: i will stay with avatar
    Calvino Rabeni: One thing I often forget in SL is to look closely
    Calvino Rabeni: Like on the ear of Fc (Panda) is a diamond or crystal heart with gold pins
    Frenchie Riverstone: pretty pictures in SL :)
    Calvino Rabeni: sometimes my curiousity forgets to look
    FcSeeker Resident: I'me not so willing to move my camera far from my Avatar and I understand my feelings better now that why not
    FcSeeker Resident: (dont want to leave my RL body even more for that)
    Calvino Rabeni: In RL the eye can travel into details
    Calvino Rabeni: Bert and Frenchie have nice glasses, and the eyes are pretty

    FcSeeker Resident: Hello steve
    Frenchie Riverstone: i do wear glasses
    Frenchie Riverstone: i make avatar to be as me
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know how to look "inside" the eyes of avatars, like RL humans. Does anyone know if this is easily done?
    Frenchie Riverstone: now SL is as RL
    Bertrum Resident: Not where I am...
    Frenchie Riverstone: sry
    Bertrum Resident: I like the juxtaposition. Better to have SL as a separate reality or layer of experience.
    Frenchie Riverstone: trees appear as outside this house
    Calvino Rabeni: I see two windows, one is SL, the other is RL, and both have trees the same distance away
    FcSeeker Resident: <3
    Frenchie Riverstone: :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: is nice here
    Calvino Rabeni: And white paper like things with light behind them
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, but, RL has a bed, that allows entry and being held by it ... SL doesn't have that here
    Frenchie Riverstone: Dash say to me there is SL bed
    Frenchie Riverstone: i have lay down in hammock ?
    Calvino Rabeni: There are some good ones. Most have "animations"
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes good ones
    Frenchie Riverstone: happy for to see FcSeeker
    Frenchie Riverstone: Dash not here now?
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi
    Bertrum Resident: WB Susan!
    FcSeeker Resident: wb Susan
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    Frenchie Riverstone: waves

    Calvino Rabeni: I had dinner with a friend who is a huge "blogger" ... I feel like quite ignorant about this world
    Calvino Rabeni: (blogging I mean, not SL)
    Frenchie Riverstone: i read blogs also
    FcSeeker Resident: wb Roger
    Frenchie Riverstone: it helps for to learn English :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: Roger is cloud?
    Calvino Rabeni: What is mother tongue for you Frenchie .. is it French? :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Roger is cloud to me, yes
    Frenchie Riverstone: umm, yes
    Bertrum Resident: wb Roger
    Frenchie Riverstone: i desire for to speak/write English
    Calvino Rabeni: I think you do well, Frenchie
    Frenchie Riverstone: ty Calvino
    Frenchie Riverstone: nice stars in sky :)
    Bertrum Resident: brb
    Calvino Rabeni: When you see a blog, that has many links and logos and google advertisements, does it detract from the experience?
    Frenchie Riverstone: i read blog and don't click anything
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I mean the appearance
    Calvino Rabeni: aesthetic
    Frenchie Riverstone: i read as book, paper
    Frenchie Riverstone: some books have tears and spots
    Calvino Rabeni: Like a newspaper or magazine with columns of advertisements, blogs are often more like that than like a book
    Frenchie Riverstone: i simply read
    Calvino Rabeni: I wish I had better concentration, or maybe I am too sensitive to appearance
    Frenchie Riverstone: ppl enjoy to sell everything

    Frenchie Riverstone: i do not wish to buy
    Frenchie Riverstone: i do not buy from tv
    Frenchie Riverstone: not buy from radio
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if there are people who enjoy the advertisements and other links
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps I am uncommon in not liking them
    Calvino Rabeni: It is tempting to assume, others are like oneself
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes, probably some do enjoy
    Calvino Rabeni: A poll might reveal, a smaller percentage do like them
    Calvino Rabeni: One thing I like about blogs - there is a "person" in them, so they are not just so much "information"
    Frenchie Riverstone: in SL some females are RL men, not like me :)
    Calvino Rabeni: usually the person wants some things
    Calvino Rabeni: the blogs author I mean
    Calvino Rabeni: They mean (without saying) "spend tomorrow with me" .. come back often and give me part of your day
    Frenchie Riverstone: much information in blogs yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Some of them make it valuable to do so
    Calvino Rabeni: but the blog adds "person" to information
    Calvino Rabeni: to make it interesting
    Calvino Rabeni: and let you see their thinking
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe, it is a 2-way street
    Frenchie Riverstone: their thinking yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Also to see their emotions and attitudes too
    Calvino Rabeni: which is not part of information normally
    Frenchie Riverstone: is blog information true to you?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is said, Frenchie, there are three different types of attitudes people have to SL
    Frenchie Riverstone: to me, blog is like talk on radio
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah perhaps true
    Calvino Rabeni: I do not listen to radio or television, so have become bad at powers of ignoring things :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: what types do you say in SL, Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is not my theory, but it says
    Calvino Rabeni: one kind of people are called Immersives, they like to be in SL like they are in RL, and sort of live inside it
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: So they act "same"
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: and another kind comes for role playing games, and they are always different characters
    Calvino Rabeni: wearing fantasy costumes, etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: no relation to RL, really
    Frenchie Riverstone: like females who are RL men?
    Calvino Rabeni: and a third kind uses SL like a "communication platform"
    Calvino Rabeni: they appear, and chat or whatever, to do some tasks
    Calvino Rabeni: but don't necessarily care what they look like
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello O
    Calvino Rabeni: so it is just a tool to communicate, for that type of user
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi O
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening 0
    FcSeeker Resident: hm...into which would you 'set' me to be ?
    Bertrum Resident: Hi O
    Frenchie Riverstone: i have much same appearance in RL
    FcSeeker Resident: (I care a lot how I look)
    Frenchie Riverstone: i make avatar to look like me
    Calvino Rabeni: I think though Fc you don't look like a pandabear in RL?
    Bertrum Resident: Pandas are cool!
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    FcSeeker Resident: think so too :)
    Calvino Rabeni: So if someone makes avatar to look like them, then chances are they will expect more "honesty" from others, also
    Frenchie Riverstone: panda bears look big to me :)
    FcSeeker Resident: yet

    Calvino Rabeni: while if they are a role play gamer then honesty is not so much expected
    Frenchie Riverstone: why talk without honesty?
    FcSeeker Resident: that's very good question Frenchie
    Frenchie Riverstone: i do not wish to argue
    FcSeeker Resident: that's I've been asking in my mind more than much, that why people lie so much here...
    Calvino Rabeni: It IS a good question.
    Calvino Rabeni: A question about values, what is important
    Calvino Rabeni: For a gamer, then, play is more important than honesty
    Bertrum Resident: I need to say good night. Thanks everyone.
    oO0Oo Resident: Night Bertrum
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night, good seeing you Bertrum, take care
    FcSeeker Resident: good night Bertrum
    Frenchie Riverstone: good night :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: gamers like drama?
    FcSeeker Resident: so is PaB also a role game ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, not very much Fc
    Calvino Rabeni: Although people do like to play with identities
    Calvino Rabeni: and some have a different gender, in SL and RL
    Calvino Rabeni: and a few have more than one avatar, to do different things with
    Calvino Rabeni: but there aren't any rules or quests
    Calvino Rabeni: so it is not really a role play game (or is it?)
    FcSeeker Resident: well...if to be not honest is not then only in role games
    FcSeeker Resident: thank you O :)
    FcSeeker Resident: so just the same role game that people play in their RL also...
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe life is a bigger role play game, and SL is part of it
    Calvino Rabeni: and then, there are some "roles" for the people who value honesty more than play, and some who value play and drama more than honesty
    Frenchie Riverstone: i do not desire drama in RL
    Frenchie Riverstone: i do not desire drama in SL also
    Frenchie Riverstone: i talk with honesty
    Calvino Rabeni: Funny how much people like drama
    Frenchie Riverstone: i dance with honesty
    Frenchie Riverstone: i cook with honesty
    oO0Oo Resident: Lucinda :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I like it on movies and television, but not so much to play a part in it myself :)
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi Lucinda
    Calvino Rabeni: though some people like to be "characters" in the drama of their lives
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Cal, Sam, Frenchy
    Calvino Rabeni: That's a good recipe, Frenchie
    Calvino Rabeni: Lucinda :)
    FcSeeker Resident: Hello Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: HJi FC
    Lucinda Lavender: did not see you:)
    Frenchie Riverstone: why dance with dishonesty?
    Frenchie Riverstone: why cook with dishonesty?
    Calvino Rabeni: Art?
    Calvino Rabeni: Art is not literally true, but in certain ways has more to say than literal truth
    FcSeeker Resident: well; I just thought to try to have such Avatar which would give as little reasons to any attitude
    Frenchie Riverstone: some dance to excite with dishonesty
    Frenchie Riverstone: is that art?
    Calvino Rabeni: In my opinion, it would not be.
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps they do something unusual, though?
    Calvino Rabeni: Then there is a small chance they could change my mind
    Calvino Rabeni: if I come to understand the "extra" thing they can add
    Calvino Rabeni: by doing it that way
    Frenchie Riverstone: some tell me of wife who put bad things in food they give him
    Lucinda Lavender: today I helped make some art with a group of people...pouring paint on to a wooden form...watched the colors flow down...this was easy enough and not particularly dishonest...
    Calvino Rabeni: I would call that bad thing crime,not art, though
    Frenchie Riverstone: dishonesty
    Frenchie Riverstone: Lucinda, you paint like I dance :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)...

    Calvino Rabeni: Ah yes, there is a big group of people in this neighborhood, they are building a community center together, adding art things to it like painted tiles and painted wooden things on the poles
    Frenchie Riverstone: i see indians here paint on poles :)
    Lucinda Lavender: sounds like a happy community
    Calvino Rabeni: And I feel good that I had a small part of it, which is, that I created their web site and got it going, but then gave it to them to care for
    Lucinda Lavender: or active anyway
    Lucinda Lavender: nice Cal
    Frenchie Riverstone: you are nice Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: TY
    oO0Oo Resident: 2nd that
    FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
    Frenchie Riverstone: ppl where I stay wish for me to logoff
    Frenchie Riverstone: sry but I must go
    FcSeeker Resident: sad
    FcSeeker Resident: wishing you to have good time
    Calvino Rabeni: When are the times a small lie is good?  For instance a grandmother buys a holiday gift for a small child, who does not like it .. should the mother help the child NOT to say he/she hates the present?
    oO0Oo Resident: bye frenchie ::waves::
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care Frenchie, be well :)
    Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams Frenchie
    Lucinda Lavender: so hard to be honest sometimes
    FcSeeker Resident: imo all presents should be received, even if dont like...one may give it foreward to someone who likes
    Lucinda Lavender: a nice idea fc
    Calvino Rabeni: What to tell the giver, if one does not like the gift?
    Calvino Rabeni: Keep it secret, say thank you?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    FcSeeker Resident: is it dishonest to keep quiet of something that dont like ?
    FcSeeker Resident: if the opinion is not asked I mean
    oO0Oo Resident: complex
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know, I think one needs to figure out the effects which might be subtle
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Playing by simple always-do rules does not always work best
    FcSeeker Resident: I have needed to 'keep my face' in front of my family many times, when got a present which I have not liked, that I wouldn't hurt their feelings
    Calvino Rabeni: I guess we have more hints than rules to live by
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Fc
    FcSeeker Resident: imo it's better to receive unliked present than to hurt the giver
    Calvino Rabeni: but we don't call that dishonest, because it is accepted and has better effects
    Calvino Rabeni: So yes I do agree
    FcSeeker Resident: but I myself miss to know if my present is liked and I dont get hurted if it is not
    Calvino Rabeni: true
    FcSeeker Resident: I then ask if the person would know someone who would like it and to give that to that person then
    Calvino Rabeni: then to act that way is to put others ahead of oneself?
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah yes to find out something about someone indirectly
    FcSeeker Resident: that is my way to live as much as I ever can
    Calvino Rabeni: could as the mother if the child would like the gift
    Calvino Rabeni: If the gift is a mistake though, there is some grace in accepting it
    Calvino Rabeni: not sure children have learned this yet
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps the parent needs to teach it
    Calvino Rabeni: it could be confusing
    Calvino Rabeni: though it seems a bit sad, the child becomes less "innocent"
    Calvino Rabeni: because the same skill for being gracious, can be used to be deceptive
    FcSeeker Resident: hm
    FcSeeker Resident: what bad there is if accepts the not liked present ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I see little bad in that, Fc

    FcSeeker Resident: imo we can always give the joy to give to the giver...that it is the present to us also, no matter what kind of the present is...
    FcSeeker Resident: the item I mean...
    Calvino Rabeni: They say "it's the thought that counts" .. the action of the person and their intention, not the object given or its effect
    FcSeeker Resident: and I agree with that thought
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Lucinda Lavender: nodding too
    Lucinda Lavender: am so tired I must go for now
    Calvino Rabeni: The child might need to be taught to "see" that, behind the gift?
    Calvino Rabeni: When I say "child" also maybe I mean, the child in myself
    FcSeeker Resident: good night Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: CInda
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: night Lucina.. towers of paint dreams.. flowing
    Lucinda Lavender: yes... towers of paint...
    FcSeeker Resident: maybe that is good idea to teach it if it dont come by the nature of the child
    Calvino Rabeni nods
    Calvino Rabeni: It might be in the nature of the child, though perhaps it helps for the parent to help them see it there
    FcSeeker Resident: maybe there are different kind of thinking parents also...
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Like, each person has a way with its own uniqueness and gifts, which get bent, hopefully improved but maybe also damaged, when they learn to live in the human world
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, though some would say, that's the only world there is ... I'm not sure what's best there
    FcSeeker Resident: thinks that to be so very true
    FcSeeker Resident: 'try, but dont get disappointed if your idea wont work out'...
    Calvino Rabeni: ah yes
    Calvino Rabeni: as arjuna might be told by krishna in the hindu story
    FcSeeker Resident: so many people are still also ashame to give a little, and dont give then anything for that...
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: it is important to try
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a place where they could be truer, I think
    FcSeeker Resident: btw
    Calvino Rabeni: to decide whether to listen to the fear
    FcSeeker Resident: in Quran there is even advises when the person must lie...
    FcSeeker Resident: for example is the wife is ugly, man must lie her to be beautiful
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    FcSeeker Resident: I've been thinking that how does that work out because also women do read the Quran
    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: then they will wonder, I suppose
    FcSeeker Resident: so...how can any wife believe their husband...even if is beatiful
    Calvino Rabeni: I suppose, she has to read between the lines in that case
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Seeing a different look in the husband's eyes, between "I have to say this because it is the right thing to say" and "I say this because this is my experience"
    FcSeeker Resident: ...or receive the present not liked; a lie...
    Calvino Rabeni: The second one might look more lively :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: But the first one says, the teller is caring for the feelings of the wife or the gift giver, so that seems okay also
    FcSeeker Resident: <3
    Calvino Rabeni: Now I hear the sound of music on the summer air in RL, along with the coolness and the night scent
    Calvino Rabeni: it has called my mind away from SL
    FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: reminding me I'll need to leave :)
    Calvino Rabeni: <3<3<3
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks Fc and oO0Oo
    oO0Oo Resident: interesting questions Cal... ty
    Calvino Rabeni: take care, dream well
    FcSeeker Resident: my body also tries to tell that it would need some rest again
    Calvino Rabeni nods
    Calvino Rabeni: mine more often than I wish :)
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    FcSeeker Resident: good night to you both :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Gift of rest to all who may accept... :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll try to be accepting of that gift, 0
    FcSeeker Resident: namaste
    oO0Oo Resident: namaste Fc
    Calvino Rabeni: namaste
    oO0Oo Resident: namste Cal

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