2011.10.16 07:00 - Choosing

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    The Guardian for this meeting was iwandertoo Resident. The comments are by iwandertoo Resident.

    Archmage Atlantis: Hello sister Susan
    iwandertoo Resident: hi Arch

    Archmage Atlantis: All we ar we are
    iwandertoo Resident: how so?
    Archmage Atlantis: Odtta told me so
    iwandertoo Resident: pardon?
    Archmage Atlantis: this day is special
    iwandertoo Resident: in any particular way?
    Archmage Atlantis: Martin Luther King is to be memorialzed in th capital the US
    Archmage Atlantis: I lived as a white man
    Archmage Atlantis: In ihis
    Archmage Atlantis: time
    iwandertoo Resident: nods
    Archmage Atlantis: we are one ppl
    iwandertoo Resident: yes
    Wol Euler: afternoon all
    iwandertoo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUe-M...eature=related
    iwandertoo Resident: hi Wol
    iwandertoo Resident: i went to the Open Door India Arie / Idan Raichel concert last evening
    iwandertoo Resident: i think you would have enjoyed the music Arch
    Wol Euler listens.
    Archmage Atlantis: Tis a giftto be simple
    iwandertoo Resident: nods
    iwandertoo Resident: this was their message, i believe
    Wol Euler: hello sam, zen
    iwandertoo Resident: waves
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Wol, Arch , Susan
    oO0Oo Resident: Zen :)

    Archmage Atlantis: The dragons are callled
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol. Arc, Susan, Sam
    Wol Euler notes Arch's mini dragon wings
    Zen Arado: I wonder if you could say somethng in German Wol? I want to try a new translator I just bought
    oO0Oo Resident: :)))
    Wol Euler: ja gerne, die einzige frage wäre ob die maschine mich folgen kann :)
    Wol Euler: hat das geklappt?
    Zen Arado: ty can you see the translatikn?
    Wol Euler: not I
    Archmage Atlantis: In New Amsterdam, I met a man
    Wol Euler: presumably DE -> EN is whispered to you alone
    Archmage Atlantis: Later
    Zon Kwan: hello
    Wol Euler: hello zon

    iwandertoo Resident: hi Zon
    oO0Oo Resident: Zon :)

    Zen Arado: de->en) yes like the only wonder if the machine follow me can be:)
    Archmage Atlantis: New York came to be
    Zen Arado: Hi Zon
    Wol Euler: nearly :)
    Zen Arado: yeh they never work perfectly
    Wol Euler: given the number of times and ways in which we misunderstand each other, that is understandable :)
    Wol Euler: hello bruce, steve
    iwandertoo Resident: hi bruce, stevenaia

    Zen Arado: yeh
    Archmage Atlantis: what is to begin, has begun
    stevenaia Michinaga: Morning and good day to all
    oO0Oo Resident: bruce ! Steve :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Bruce, Steve
    oO0Oo Resident: hi santo
    Bruce Mowbray: Good day, folks. (listens to catch the drift).
    Zon Kwan: santo steve bruce
    iwandertoo Resident: hi santoshima
    Santoshima Resident: hi susan
    oO0Oo Resident: Drifts to catch the listening Bruce

    Santoshima Resident: and everyone
    Wol Euler: hello santo
    Santoshima Resident: :) wol
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!
    Santoshima Resident: hey ther bruce :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be going shortly but wanted to say hello
    iwandertoo Resident: I read a book, "The Art of Choosing" essentially speaking to how people, it seems, in general are happier when they have less to consider in their decision making process - or rather that sense of having the ability to choose all of those things
    iwandertoo Resident: i was wondering if the team concurs or no?
    Zen Arado: hmmm
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Bruce Mowbray: simper is better?
    Zon Kwan: i am lazy
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, brain overload, I get that everytime I go down the breakfast cereal aisle
    Bruce Mowbray: simpler*
    Zon Kwan: simpler--better
    Wol Euler: above a certain level, more choice brings frustration rather tahn extra goodness
    Zen Arado: I am struggling with the reaisatin that we don't choose anything
    iwandertoo Resident: hi eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: peeping in for Susan's first hosting gig :) Nice to see you all
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Susan :)

    Zen Arado: :)
    Santoshima Resident: hi eliza ~
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eliza

    stevenaia Michinaga: count chococula, lucky charms or shreaded wheat... head exploads
    oO0Oo Resident: ty for hosting Susan
    iwandertoo Resident: (stevenaia is holding my hand :)
    Zon Kwan: zen,, but we think we are
    iwandertoo Resident: (you just cant see it
    iwandertoo Resident: the book covers the marked difference in the western and eastern ways of thinking
    Zen Arado: I think it is an illusion
    Zon Kwan: and when we thibj we are choosin, its simpler to have clear choices
    Eliza Madrigal: there was a wonderful TED talk on this, wondering if it is the same person...
    iwandertoo Resident: family first, individual first
    iwandertoo Resident: i think there are a few TedTalks on this
    Wol Euler: barry schwarz?
    Eliza Madrigal: described how difficult to be given choices you 'can't' have the info to evaluate, end of life etc
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I listened to that TED talk.
    Wol Euler: yes, several, by quite a few speakers
    iwandertoo Resident: some from a strict biochem perspective, others psych...
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm
    Zen Arado: all of our interests, experiences, upbringing, genetics will make us decide one option at any moment
    Zon Kwan: tesm but still we think we choose
    Zen Arado: yeh we think we do
    Zen Arado: we do in a way
    iwandertoo Resident: i sensed when reading this, within me,an assessment of not wanting responsibility by those who wish to follow what is
    Archmage Atlantis: u are choosen, and I must go.....Blessingns and Namste
    Zon Kwan: if we would nto think we can choose--lifw would not be very fun
    iwandertoo Resident: this doesnt seem "simple" to me
    iwandertoo Resident: waves, Arch
    Bruce Mowbray: bye, Arch!

    Zen Arado: we only think we choose if we think we are separate from life
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zon Kwan: yes.. but thats the game
    iwandertoo Resident: sorry, not following Zen
    Zon Kwan: if i play foorball game and i know what all players and i will choose, would i like to watch the game ?
    Eliza Madrigal: wu wei :) Chris Martin this morning... an interview "You work had, but it is not hard work" about his 'calling'
    Eliza Madrigal: *hard=had
    Bruce Mowbray: hey, Korel.
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning Korel :)

    Zen Arado: we can't control life
    Korel Laloix: Heya
    Zen Arado: Hi Korel
    iwandertoo Resident: hi korel

    Zon Kwan: we can control the ball
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
    iwandertoo Resident: we can control ourselves (or should attempt to), no?
    Zen Arado: why can't I choose to stay quiet :)
    iwandertoo Resident: lol
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Zon Kwan: you choosed to speak, or did you ?
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi korel
    iwandertoo Resident: hehe
    Zen Arado: don't seem to have any choice
    Korel Laloix: I find that I am the most unquiet on the inside when I am the most quiet on the outside.
    Bruce Mowbray: "how can I keep from singing...?" --- an old Quaker hymn.
    Zen Arado: I have been thinking abut this for years
    Zen Arado: since I read Hobbes
    Zen Arado: Hi Xirana
    iwandertoo Resident: hi xirana
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xirana :)

    Zon Kwan: life likes suprises
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
    Bruce Mowbray: hey, Xir.

    Zon Kwan: no choice--no suprises
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Zen Arado: other way arond Zon?
    Wol Euler: hello xir, korel
    iwandertoo Resident: life is endlessly surprising
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Wol:)
    Zen Arado: we try to limit life by choosing
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: but also to express
    Zen Arado: thre problem is determinism
    iwandertoo Resident: determinism?
    Zen Arado: we think if we can't choose we will be pushed around by life
    Zon Kwan: who are we
    Zen Arado: our lives will be predetermined and mechanical
    iwandertoo Resident: this seems a poor definition of choice
    Eliza Madrigal: by 'events' zen?
    Zen Arado: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Xir
    Zon Kwan: we are not apart from life
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Sam:)
    Zen Arado: but that only arises if we think we are separate from life instead of part of it
    iwandertoo Resident: i think we're all "pushed around" ...its how we cope - how we choose to deal with those variables
    Zen Arado: yes Zon
    Zon Kwan: so if that is treu..how can we be determined
    Zen Arado: see what I am getting at?
    Wol Euler nods.
    Zen Arado: exactly Zon
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps better to go to tiny convenience store with very few options, that to go to big-box store (like Wal-Mart) with too many options?
    Zen Arado: we are choosing but part of life
    Bruce Mowbray: then*
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Wol Euler: that is in any case true, bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: than*
    Zon Kwan: or life is choosing through us
    Wol Euler: the local store supports your local economy. wallmart drains your city dry
    Zen Arado: yes Zon
    iwandertoo Resident: unless in the middle of no where, wol
    Wol Euler: regardless of product choice :)
    Zen Arado: embarassment of choice
    iwandertoo Resident: then walmart has saved the folks out there
    Korel Laloix: Wallmart just sucks anyway.
    iwandertoo Resident: laughing
    Zon Kwan: why embarassment ?
    Wol Euler: just an expression, zon, something borrowed from French
    Bruce Mowbray: happier folks at the neighborhood grocery than at Wal-Mart. . . ???
    Eliza Madrigal: fun to look at lots of things... no need to buy them all
    Zon Kwan: ah..dont know french..how embarrasing
    Wol Euler: heheh
    iwandertoo Resident: why would one be bothered by having the option to choose from 100 types of drinks vs. only having 5 choices?
    Santoshima Resident: or just drink because one is thirsty
    Zen Arado: I thought you were French Zon :)
    Bruce Mowbray ponders 99-different-brands of beer (at Halifax retreat)- - -
    Zon Kwan: oh
    Zon Kwan: no
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bruce
    iwandertoo Resident: nothing has been taken away from the person if there are more options?
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: and sushi pizza....
    iwandertoo Resident: lol...true
    Eliza Madrigal: choices run amuck
    iwandertoo Resident: tika masala pizza
    Korel Laloix: Sushi pizza?
    Zon Kwan: if we want many choices..doesnt ot show we are greedy ?
    Zen Arado: oh no sushi pizza here :(
    Santoshima Resident: yuck
    iwandertoo Resident: no...creative
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, one would think... was quite good :)
    Wol Euler: the annoyance for me is two-fold: firstly, that I see no worthwhile diference between the choices, and second that the store by displaying them all forces me to think about something that really doesn't interest me at all
    Wol Euler: interseting to compare the choice of 100 soft drinks (annoying) to the choice of 5000 books (delightful) :)
    iwandertoo Resident: the second argument makes sense to me from an economics standpoint, thank you
    Santoshima Resident: we are brining the idea of "choice" to a consumer frame only
    iwandertoo Resident: and bookstores are generally just books...
    Zen Arado: yes
    Korel Laloix: IN some cases yes, but in things like wine and certain bathroom items, I suuure want a choice.
    iwandertoo Resident: nods
    Santoshima Resident: how about choice of looking at one's mind
    Wol Euler nods.
    iwandertoo Resident: nods
    Santoshima Resident: choice about how to behave in relation to others
    Santoshima Resident: and oneself
    Santoshima Resident: who cares about the "stuff"
    Santoshima Resident: the real good are in relationship
    Santoshima Resident: goods
    Zon Kwan: to choose a woman, 2 options is not enough
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: ::lively discussion:: :)
    Korel Laloix: Depends on the two... smiles
    Zen Arado: we choose in each present moment but everything that went before determines the choice I think
    Zon Kwan: one m igth suffice
    Xirana Oximoxi: for a lot of men ,either:)
    iwandertoo Resident: but through introspection...the future choices may be different.
    Zon Kwan: usually yes zen, but not necessarily
    iwandertoo Resident: nods
    Zen Arado: brb
    Bruce Mowbray: it is the woman who chooses the man - leeting him think that the choice was his. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: letting*
    Zon Kwan: yes bruce,,i forgot
    Zon Kwan: u r 100 % right
    Korel Laloix: No comment.... smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: what's the old saying. . . "He chased her until she let herself be caught"?
    Santoshima Resident: hmmm, not quite what i had in mind ...
    Zon Kwan: but we pretend not to notice that either
    iwandertoo Resident: choose a woman
    Bruce Mowbray: so, "choice" is what we choose NOT to notice?
    iwandertoo Resident: that is a choice as well
    Korel Laloix: Men don't notice quite a lot.
    Bruce Mowbray: and it's easier to choose with less to ginore?
    Santoshima Resident: choice has a great deal to do with responsibility for one's thoughts and actions
    Bruce Mowbray: ignore*
    Santoshima Resident: imho
    Wol Euler nods.
    Korel Laloix: Actually, there is a great body of reserach on the easiset numbers to chose from.
    Zon Kwan: can we choose not to notice,,hm
    Santoshima Resident: wb Arch
    iwandertoo Resident: i think we develop filters that we suppress
    Bruce Mowbray: wb, Arch.
    Eliza Madrigal: unconscious patterning
    Zon Kwan: do we choose when choice is made unconsciously ?
    iwandertoo Resident: yes, and eventually something comes up and our attention is directed to surfacing these
    Archmage Atlantis: Ain't no soul like an old soul
    Korel Laloix: What does that mean Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: The chosen, Korel
    Korel Laloix: Lost in language again I think.. can you explain a bit more please?
    Zen Arado: the chosen few
    Archmage Atlantis: Joshua fought
    Archmage Atlantis: We do not deny
    Archmage Atlantis: We face
    iwandertoo Resident: all of us eventually face up
    oO0Oo Resident: Excuse me I need to slip out... (((everybody))) :)
    iwandertoo Resident: its just how much time is wasted in between
    Zen Arado: bye Sam :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye Sam :)
    Wol Euler: bye sam, take care
    Santoshima Resident: bye sam
    Zon Kwan: bye O
    Korel Laloix: ciao
    Eliza Madrigal waves to ooO0Ooo

    Archmage Atlantis: in 5 minute
    Zen Arado: ha ha translator translated ciao as hello
    iwandertoo Resident: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: there will be a meetin
    Zon Kwan: gtg, see ya
    Wol Euler: bye zon
    iwandertoo Resident: tc, zon
    Zen Arado: bye Zon :)
    Eliza Madrigal waves

    Santoshima Resident: yes, me too, better wander over ~ thanks everyone
    iwandertoo Resident: tc, santoshima
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for a great discussion Susan, everyone
    Zen Arado: ciao Santo
    Korel Laloix: OK... off as well.
    Wol Euler: bye all, see most of us again in anohter place :)
    Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i

    iwandertoo Resident: see you in the future
    Archmage Atlantis: Wol
    Archmage Atlantis: I ask you
    Archmage Atlantis: why dash does not
    Bruce Mowbray: walk in beauty today? MY choice!
    iwandertoo Resident: :) rock on
    iwandertoo Resident: always, Bruce
    Xirana Oximoxi: see you soon :)
    iwandertoo Resident: see you, Xirana
    Zen Arado: bye Susan :)

    iwandertoo Resident: see you, zen
    iwandertoo Resident: :)

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