2011.10.25 07:00 - Aha and a cookie

    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

    The Editor today will do extra duty (maybe only today) and edit all "'*'correction" type chat into edits of the above typos.   This goes against the love of typos, but let's try it.

    Please comment (someday) if you like or dislike the corrections.


    Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning
    Riddle Sideways: you started rezzing much shorter then grew into yourself :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ur skirt rezzed grey to me :)
    Riddle Sideways: suppose it needs washing
          clicks advanced->rebake
    Yakuzza Lethecus: now it got color
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, it´s actually good that ur mentioning it, i don´t see these things anymore, i just come here and even tho the subject is mindfulness all of it slips away slightly
    Riddle Sideways: slipping away is good. It was noticed, noted and then was not important enough
    Riddle Sideways: so it slips away
    Riddle Sideways: making room for the more important (who judges that) to come forward
    Riddle Sideways: and the fault is not with you
    Riddle Sideways: my practice of seeing edges is probably limiting
    Riddle Sideways: funny things happen at the edges
    Riddle Sideways: am liking funny things
    Riddle Sideways: like to laugh

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good metaphor for many things :)
    Riddle Sideways: ah metaphor...
    Riddle Sideways: was in a conversation last night
    Riddle Sideways: that metaphors got in the way
    Riddle Sideways: we noted how struggling for new or more accurate metaphor
    Riddle Sideways: was getting in the way of the actual subject
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what was the actual subject ?
         Behold, Yak fell into the trap of asking the GoC if there was some hidden agenda item that was brought here 
    Riddle Sideways: ah, it is an actual topic for here/now
    Riddle Sideways: :)

    Riddle Sideways: have been pondering . Playing with:
    A. Being/G-d is Everything which includes the dualism Good and Bad.
    B. As we strive toward Being-ness/Godly-ness we move toward goodness and remove badnesses.
    Is there any contradiction in those statements? both true? how does that work?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not sure if badness is really getting removed on the way to beingness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: beingness actually sometimes sounds a bit selfish to me
    Riddle Sideways: maybe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: one issue why i don´t contribute too much is that i don´t like my own contributions, i think in this and that direction all the time but am not a deep thinker
    Riddle Sideways: there are many kinds of thinkers. Need them all to contribute
         Gentle Reader please to take 90 seconds right now! to reflect on you vs. what Yak has just said...
                Please take the time that we did to conside, ponder, reflect, analyze, grok what Yak said about you.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i might think on social justice in one moment then on how pricetags filter ppl socially then how trivial that thought actually is and stop thinking deeper because i start thinking about how other ppl think if i say something trivial and stupid
    Riddle Sideways: self-censorship is horrible. what if we all did it?
    Riddle Sideways: when reading all the great chats in the logs. Then reading some stupid Riddle: remark :)
    Riddle Sideways: want to delete it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like sitting and reading a good chat, yesterday druth and zen and the others where talking about free will and i had a lot to google for still i said only hi and bye as usually
    Riddle Sideways: yet your mind was racing with new, useful and refreshing thoughts on their topics
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was interested i just don´t know how to constructilvly contribute, i wonder how to preserve quality in communicative exposure, and not bubbling words around like i often do
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even that sentence sounds bubblish :P
    Riddle Sideways: :D
         Like Yak, of all the useful, relivant, insightful, encouraging, supportive, etc. and etc. thing Riddle could have typed (oh well) all that came out was ":D".  What would you have said?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: so it´s to be around ppl who actually have something to say how to not get lost in a constant flood of opinions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i watch the news and go habitually to a couple of newssides
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Bruce and Aph
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey aph and bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Yaku, Aph, Riddle.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t have the feeling i learn anything, i feel conceptless
    Riddle Sideways: overly critical? self-censoring?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zen.
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen

    Yakuzza Lethecus: there are quiet a lot of thoughts comming up when i read but can´t really elaborate and verify those thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey then
    Riddle Sideways: what if we all waited until we had something of great value to add to the chat
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Riddle Sideways: and do not say those little things
    Riddle Sideways: would be very silent here
    Zen Arado: agree Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: besides bubblish is fun and educational :)
    Zen Arado: bubblish :)
    Zen Arado: that's what I speak :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or the questions are getting to big to fast for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: like the financial crisis right now, a constant question is ,,what does the financial market today contribute to the real economy ?"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or of course issues on free will are interesting for me for ages
    Zen Arado: I don't think anyone knows
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i just mentioned that to riddle that i liked ur discussion yesterday zen
    Zen Arado: it's all cnjecture
    Riddle Sideways: their own little sub-world/reality
    Zen Arado: oh ty Yaku
    Riddle Sideways: was Pondering / Playing with:
    A. Being/G-d is Everything which includes the dualism Good and Bad.
    B. As we strive toward Being-ness/Godly-ness we move toward goodness and remove badnesses.
    Is there any contradiction in those statements? both true? how does that work?

    Zen Arado: A seems better
    Zen Arado: goodness/badness what are they?
    Zen Arado: just our judgements
    Riddle Sideways: maybe concepts that contribute little to real-ness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi xirana, sam
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Xir
    Riddle Sideways: hi oO
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi everyone:)
    Zen Arado: Hi Xirana, Sam
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Xir.
    oO0Oo Resident:
    oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
    oO0Oo Resident: /▌ Hi :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: / \

    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, 0!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Sam
    oO0Oo Resident: :)

    Riddle Sideways: that little wave comes across so neat in the logs :)
    oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
    oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
    oO0Oo Resident: /▌
    oO0Oo Resident: / \

    oO0Oo Resident: relaxes to catch the drift... ;)
    Zen Arado: just drifts...
    Riddle Sideways: yak, note how little was added to the Goc introduced topic :)
    Riddle Sideways: your topic is better
    Aphrodite Macbain: drifts away
    Zen Arado: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Helloo from Toronto (waves)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello up there in Toronto!!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello to toronto :)
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Toronto
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)

    Zen Arado: sometimes we all just wants to sit quitly
    Xirana Oximoxi: HI Totonto:)
    Zen Arado: and listen to others
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Zen Arado: I feel I push my own views too much
    oO0Oo Resident: Yes ... there is a consensus about that Zen... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha
    Riddle Sideways: soon the phones will ring and we will all have to contribute to those conversations. Now is nice to sit quietly, maybe (or not)

    Zen Arado: my views are the only ones I've got I guess
    Riddle Sideways: and there are some that do not give enough of their views
    Zen Arado: tho they change a lot
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: of course my views are the right ones :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: having a hard time
    Tess Aristocrat: good morning..
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)) Exactly Zen :))
    Zen Arado: Hi Tess :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Tess!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello tess
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello Tess:)
    oO0Oo Resident: o/ :)

    Zen Arado: you're a white cloud Tess
    Tess Aristocrat: oh?
    Zen Arado: to me anyway

    Yakuzza Lethecus: tryting to become godly just makes us less godly if we just be we might get more godly but might not even realize how blessed we are, bubbling around a bit :P
    Zen Arado: yes Yaku
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Tess
    Zen Arado: we can only be what we are anyway I think
    Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
    oO0Oo Resident: Yaku :)
    Riddle Sideways: btw - does anybody know how to make an av that is the white cloud?
    Zen Arado: why are we so unhappy with the way we are?
    Xirana Oximoxi: that's right Zen, but we can show it to others or not :)
    Bruce Mowbray: When I'm a cloud, I just wait.
    Bruce Mowbray: a bit like cocoon . . .
    Xirana Oximoxi: sometimes it can be due to the pressure of the values of our society... pushing us to be always perfect, always the best...
    oO0Oo Resident: to be like gods?

    Xirana Oximoxi: when I am a cloud I try to put a peice f clothes again or the skin again and sometimes it works and it makes download all the avatar
    Riddle Sideways: or hit advanced->rebake
    Riddle Sideways: but how to make a rez cloud avi? as a wearable?
    Xirana Oximoxi: I tried to answer the question of Zen about why we are unhappy the way we are, Sam (if you are asking me) :))
    Bruce Mowbray hits [advenced] rebake to see if it makes him even more handsome.
    Tess Aristocrat: I'm going as this for Halloween ㋡

    Zen Arado: why dioes society do that I wonder?
    Riddle Sideways: or how to be in the cloud when RL forces drawn/rendered person :)
    Tess Aristocrat: lollll
    Tess Aristocrat: yes
    Zen Arado feels like a cloud
    Aphrodite Macbain: Society doesn`t DO anything. It`s our needs and passions that make us unhappy
    Aphrodite Macbain: That`s the theory, anyway
    Zen Arado: we think it should be different than it is
    Bruce Mowbray: Good point, Aph - - so "Occupy Yourself," as Eos puts it.
    Bruce Mowbray: Good point, Aph - - so "Occupy Yourself," as Eos puts it.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i think i just have to decide to be happy, somehow sometimes i just allow myself often i just want to be sad somehow i have the feeling i kind of decide that
    Bruce Mowbray wonders why that line duplicated itself. . .
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in a more tacid way
    Xirana Oximoxi: we live in a society where we receive a lot of rules to follow... so general values influss us too:)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Occupy myself with what?
    Aphrodite Macbain: me thinks that it duplicated itself because it was important

    Bruce Mowbray: It's in an email to all guardians this morning, Aph.
    Riddle Sideways: allow or decide, either
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh, oK the one from Eos
    Bruce Mowbray: And I agree with Yaku that being happy is sometimes just a simple decision. . .
    Zen Arado: I'm not clear what he is saying
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- attitude is everything
    Tess Aristocrat: I think as we strive toward 'Being-ness" we strive toward non-dualism..eh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: you have a choice to be hurt or angry or not.
    Zen Arado: sometimes happiness, sometimes sad...we entertain them all..
    Aphrodite Macbain: Though I must say it`s hard to not have an emotional reaction to things that are important to you
    Tess Aristocrat: with each person, their own 'truth'
    Bruce Mowbray: For me, happiness is often an unforeseen by-product of "right thinking."
    Bruce Mowbray: Happiness happens.
    Zen Arado: maybe we can't be happy unless we are also sad sometimes
    Zen Arado: otherwise we wouldn't notice we are happy
    Tess Aristocrat: and...also, pertaining to individual happiness or sadness: How you were raised; what defined your happy or unhappy
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have to go now. I am being a rude guest...
    Tess Aristocrat: it is so different with everyone
    Zen Arado: yeh..is my happy the same as others 'happy'
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all

    Zen Arado: ?
    Tess Aristocrat: oh, be well Aphrodite (((hugs)))
    Bruce Mowbray: For me, happiness is the fifth "Immeasureable"
    Xirana Oximoxi: bye Aph, have a nice day!! :)
    Riddle Sideways: by bye Aph
    Zen Arado: bye Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph!
    oO0Oo Resident: Bye Aph

    Zen Arado: why should we be unhappy? ponders
    Bruce Mowbray: When the first 4 Immeasureables are in line, the fifth happens spontaneously.
    Zen Arado: yeh but can we force ourselves to be happy?
    Zen Arado: by techniques?
    Xirana Oximoxi: maybe not push, but learn to be happy
    Riddle Sideways: out of the corner of perciption comes something funny that makes us happy
    Tess Aristocrat: Well, we were unhappy at least once in our lives, even if it was because we dropped a piece of candy in the dirt.
    Zen Arado: to me it is more about seeing through the foolishness that I allow to make me unhappy
    Tess Aristocrat: and when we were young, if we were lucky, we learned to also self-soothe
    Zen Arado: oh yes...it is a very common condition isn't it Tess?
    Zen Arado: self soothe....nice
    Zen Arado: and soothe others
    Bruce Mowbray: May I offer an example of how "foolish" my own happiness is?
    Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
    Bruce Mowbray: Yesterday . . . the farmer across the road harvested his soybeans. . . and the NOISE bothered me and I let it make me unhappy. BUT, TODAY my own farmer is harvesting OUR corn, makeing the SAME noise, and I am happy. ((HOW FOOLISH!))

    Tess Aristocrat: loll
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Zen Arado: funny how noises seem to bother us more as we get older Bruce
    Riddle Sideways: funny how a point of view changes everything
    Zen Arado: I have a friend who is driven mad by kids next doot playing in their yard
    Xirana Oximoxi: maybe yesterday you had a little headache and today not :)
    Riddle Sideways: I have a friend who is driven happy by kids playing
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, Zen, but especially me -- since damage to auditory nerves last summer - - I now have to wear ear plugs whenever I am in public places. . . but that doesn't need to "make" me unhappy.
    Zen Arado: ah ok Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Again, as Yaku said, it is my own choice. . .
    Zen Arado: why can't we accept that sometimes we will be unhappy?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: a strange thing that bothers me a bit is for example that a house is being build here in front of my window, i see the workers the workers might see me, i think if the workers think if i am watching em, i am sitting here everyday and appreciated it more when i only saw green grass, now i think about being seing and seeing them all the time, i wonder why i think about that at all, i somehow can´t switch the thought ,,just off"
    Zen Arado: but it will be only temporary?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and actuall concerning happyness i was googling for paul watzlawick before

    Zen Arado: you could always draw the blind Yaku
    Riddle Sideways: ah, thanks Yak
    Zen Arado: peole can look in where I live
    Xirana Oximoxi: even if we accept that sometimes we will be unhappy, when it happens it's not fun :)
    Tess Aristocrat: Change is sometimes difficult for us.
    Zen Arado: no but maybe if we accept it more it won't be so bad?
    Zen Arado: if we think it shouldn't be like this our thoights magnify it
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes...you are right Zen :) sure it helps to wear unhappiness
    Zen Arado: yeh we resist change Tess
    Tess Aristocrat: When our view changes, when they clear land, etc..it makes us uneasy..we don't like it.
    Zen Arado: yeh maybe that is it
    Zen Arado: same with our bodies
    Bruce Mowbray: For me, it's a matter of putting "self" at the center of experience. . . and that's the beginning of all troubles.
    Zen Arado: we want the to stay yoing and healthy
    Zen Arado: yes Bruce
    Tess Aristocrat: Yet, we can come across the same cleared and green flowering meadow six months later and think, 'what a lovely view'
    Bruce Mowbray to himself: Who is the "self" who wants to stay young and healthy?
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Zen Arado: we create a false structure of self and then protect it
    Bruce Mowbray: exactly, Zen.
    Zen Arado: life is perfect as it is
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel an urge to write my 99-Days report now, so I shall be away.
    Zen Arado: used to read that in Zen books but never believed it
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone. Have yourselves a HAPPY day!
    Riddle Sideways: ok, bye bruce
    oO0Oo Resident: bruce :)
    Zen Arado: bye Bruce ;)
    Tess Aristocrat: Bruce, be well!
    Zen Arado: you too :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I also go now, take care all! :)
    Zen Arado: waves happily
    Riddle Sideways: waves bye
    Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
    Zen Arado: bye Xirana
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye xirana
    oO0Oo Resident: Xirana :) tc

    Riddle Sideways: can read those books over and over, then sometime/somehow something sticks (or not)
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: or clicks
    Riddle Sideways: waiting for aha moments :)
    Zen Arado: so slow to get them
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i always hope for those here :)
    Zen Arado: my life near its end before I get some
    Tess Aristocrat: ㋡
    Zen Arado: aha and a cookie
    Zen Arado: great
    Tess Aristocrat: ok, I'm going to wander off as well, take care all of you ㋡
    Zen Arado: bye Tess :)
    Zen Arado: I better go too
    oO0Oo Resident: All the best Tess. Thanks for coming.

    Riddle Sideways: just put paul watzlawick onto the 'read later' (love that service) and noted how large that stack is :(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye tess
    oO0Oo Resident: Zen :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and zen
    Riddle Sideways: by tess and zen

    Riddle Sideways: So many sites, so little time :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care riddle
    Riddle Sideways: thank you all,
    oO0Oo Resident: Bye Riddle. Nice to see you. :)
    Riddle Sideways: and take care
    oO0Oo Resident: Yaku :) Good to sit with you :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Be well friend.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care sam
    oO0Oo Resident: :)

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