2012.01.01 13:00 - Do You Know How You Are?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.


    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you??
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely to see you... so curious what you are up to lately, how work is going, family, life :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, and Happy New Year!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how was your holiday???
    SophiaSharon Larnia: happy new year!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ive been working a lot :)
    Eliza Madrigal: wonderful in many ways, thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: long hours?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not really, but alot of days
    SophiaSharon Larnia: 8 hrs
    Eliza Madrigal: hope you are resting and playing too then :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive pushed myself a little hard, not much resting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: im not sure why
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but now find my self a little crazy :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: btw, you look good as a blond lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :) maybe just the initial push of getting used to new schedules and such
    Eliza Madrigal: :)Ty... this is the first blond I've felt comfortable in

    pab new years_001.png

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know, just a bit of Disequilibrium
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i think the holidays on top of working a lot
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: holidays are fun but can be exhausting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: first day to sit around and do nothing, fitting, on Jan 1st haha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))

    Eliza Madrigal: the topic of 'equanimity' has been coming up spontaneously for a few of us
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good
    Eliza Madrigal: seems timely
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i like it when that happens
    Eliza Madrigal: me too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: we support one another in the understructures sometimes I think...
    Eliza Madrigal: even when not overtly communicating
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm

    SophiaSharon Larnia: how have you been Eliza?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :) most welcome
    Eliza Madrigal: I have been overdoing some things and underdoing others
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh

    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi there Zon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Im on the cushion youre standing on
    Zon Kwan: hi hi
    Eliza Madrigal: so this morning I've been writing a bit... integrating... about PaB, about family life, personal life, etc... 'being seen'
    Zon Kwan: sery
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no problem Zon

    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New Year Zon, how are you?
    Zon Kwan: happy new year ELiza
    Zon Kwan: mm..dont know

    Zon Kwan: do you know how you are

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal checks in with self
    Eliza Madrigal: :::looks around:::
    Zon Kwan: yes ?
    Eliza Madrigal: many contradictory things, so your point is well taken
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zon Kwan: part of me is fine

    SophiaSharon Larnia: if im not in imminent danger, then im 'fine' ha
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: an honest evaluation sometimes can take a while
    Eliza Madrigal: shining the light here and there
    Zon Kwan: it can
    Zon Kwan: feelings can disturb clear evaluattion
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes indeed
    Eliza Madrigal nods


    SophiaSharon Larnia: experiences 'feelings' during the 90 sec pause, and feels a distracting shakiness of the body and hands.
    Zon Kwan: nods..ceratin dullness i feel
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, feel my 'speediness'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles, you're probably up to a lot at once :)
    Eliza Madrigal: inwardly, yes :)

    Eliza Madrigal: have either of you done body scan meditations?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i started trying to go into my body... long story, but thats when i feel a lot of emotional stuff come up
    Zon Kwan: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what exactly is body scan meditations, when you rest on each part of your body?
    Eliza Madrigal: me too, honestly, which tells me there is something important there... stored memory or what-have-you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Eliza Madrigal nods...
    Eliza Madrigal: I find that it takes a while, that the quicker guided meditations one might find online aren't exactly helpful...
    Eliza Madrigal: they bring stuff up but don't give one time to relax
    Eliza Madrigal: but I guess they are a 'how are you'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ha :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: experiencing the present moment is in body
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to attempt to glimpse awareness any other way seems like something missing

    Zon Kwan: i have been wondering bout this
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i avoided that forever, and almost gave up altogether. Im still not ready to face it
    Zon Kwan: are we our bodies
    Zon Kwan: or mind
    SophiaSharon Larnia: listening
    Eliza Madrigal: or neither or both

    Eliza Madrigal: what are your thoughts about it so far Zon?
    Zon Kwan: mixed
    Zon Kwan: i know
    Zon Kwan: i should be in my body
    Zon Kwan: and mind disturbs
    Zon Kwan: but
    Zon Kwan: somehow
    Zon Kwan: the mere body
    Zon Kwan: seems
    Zon Kwan: like
    Zon Kwan: not me

    Eliza Madrigal: emotions and body seem so intertwined to me, far moreso than emotions and mind
    Eliza Madrigal: have to be intentional regarding body because I'm so easily 'in my head'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: which thinks it is control central, lol
    Zon Kwan: must go,,just as it was coming interesting

    SophiaSharon Larnia: thats what my last sculpture was about, the shadow has no head :)
    Eliza Madrigal: bye for now Zon, thanks
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zon :) nice to see you
    Zon Kwan: see you
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful sculpture Sophia...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wasn't fishing :P but thanks, i shouldve written more i guess
    Eliza Madrigal: why was there no head?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: on the shadow?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: because i am at times a head without a body, or a body without a head :)


    Eliza Madrigal: I know not fishing... but I was up in the retreat center yestereday and sort of pondering you, your talents, many lovely things you've done for pab:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: feels like a really long time ago now, and I almost removed that place the other day. I was going to package it up, but thats a long undertaking from scratch, and some of the stuff up there is either no copy, or not mine. :)

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: when you are creating in SL, is that body or 'in your head'?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh, in my head
    SophiaSharon Larnia: part of the draw
    SophiaSharon Larnia: allows it
    Eliza Madrigal: because in RL you are more physical?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

    SophiaSharon Larnia: but i am very physical at work, and forget to eat, drink or go to the bathroom, totally a head without a body
    SophiaSharon Larnia: digital
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes I can get into that mode too... sort of ordering my body around... 'you can wait'... or forgetting it entirely
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a bad habit :))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you wouldnt allow your kid to do it, you'd remind them

    Eliza Madrigal: the first time I did yoga I cried and cried after realizing how compartmentalized I was, dis-intigrated I suppose
    Eliza Madrigal: true
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oooh really
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i want to start yoga this month
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i had this idea that in a class id HAVE to
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...yes...
    Eliza Madrigal: I tried a few different things, and I still like walking...

    Eliza Madrigal: but the teacher I found starts everything from the heart
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's what's missing, re integrating mind / body

    SophiaSharon Larnia: perhaps
    SophiaSharon Larnia: starting out from a place of acceptance
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean it isn't tough to override habit of saying "sshhh" to needs
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha to shh to needs, in my case its, huh?
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: well, until one is floored and has to 'stop'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: right. hit a wall, then body without a head
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i am so mean to myself
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Korel :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel :)

    Eliza Madrigal: do you have any notion why that is? or is that what is hard to look at?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just thinking right now... its easy to forget whatever I am thinking about, or what i have been contemplating.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i shelve it all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: im sure something else will occur to me later about that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just, bad habits.
    Korel Laloix: Heya
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: me too... yet trying to change them doesn't usually work for me... replacing , maybe :) so perhaps a class helps :))

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, with a little gentle peer pressure
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) yup!
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm really affected by environment too... so actually things like moving furniture or strange little things, can have a big effect on my habits
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I remember a long time ago, some one said something about wearing a necklace or charm to remind you to stay in the current moment
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi San :)
    Santoshima Resident: hi eliza, sophia, korel
    Korel Laloix: Heya
    Eliza Madrigal: touchstones?




    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, sure, like in inception lol
    Eliza Madrigal: "Am I being heedless?" totems... lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i could wear a bell, and ensure that everyone else is in the current moment as well.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :P
    Eliza Madrigal: =P~ haha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: joking aside, ive been thinking of it lately
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for the discussion, find it very helpful too

    Eliza Madrigal: San and Korel, we've been talking a bit about habits, suppose appropriate for the New Year
    Eliza Madrigal: and about forgetting body... a little about 'checking in'
    Eliza Madrigal: body scan meditations are perhaps like opening the windows of a house?
    Eliza Madrigal: checking the weather, allowing circulation..
    SophiaSharon Larnia: letting out the ghosts
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: writing feels that way for me too, facing fears
    Eliza Madrigal: calling bluffs
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wonderful

    Korel Laloix: To me just the concept of habits is hard to define.
    Korel Laloix: What is a habit, vs a way that you just normally do something?
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Santoshima Resident: same
    Santoshima Resident: which habits are destructive pattern and which are positive?
    Korel Laloix: Or how serious or complex does it have to be to be a habit?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh so even if it's positive, its still a habit
    Santoshima Resident: sure
    Santoshima Resident: of course
    Korel Laloix: I can only start my car one way, is that a habit?
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: for me, it can be a matter of not seeing when I'm doing something that in its time may have made sense, but doesn't any longer
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Santoshima Resident: how to replace unconscious habitual patterns with more conscious positive ones
    Santoshima Resident: ?
    Santoshima Resident: that is something that interests
    Eliza Madrigal: nods, yes, to step up in a way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: muscle memory of the brain

    SophiaSharon Larnia: catching yourself could be the hardest part, maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so
    Eliza Madrigal: the consciousness does seem the heart of it
    Korel Laloix: Yes there can be bad habits, but the parts of my personality that are really disfuctional are much more complex than just habits.




    SophiaSharon Larnia: for me personally, thinking in an unhappy way is habitual
    Eliza Madrigal: so then in this context habits are more a reflection of something else... some unmet need or reasoning that is hiding beneath habits?
    Korel Laloix: I don't think so, sometimes it is just the way you learned how to do something.

    Santoshima Resident: habits are how our minds work / we seek pattern ~ how to encourage patterns/habits that encourage positivity
    Korel Laloix: And it is fuctional, but not the best way.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods ... there do seem to be reasons for our mechanisms... maybe that is the sense of 'useful in their time'
    Eliza Madrigal: or in a different context...
    Santoshima Resident: body Is the unconscious, certain thought patterns encourage/reflect body/mind states, imho
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh interesting, body being unconscious
    Santoshima Resident: hi zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods, interesting



    Santoshima Resident: not "being unconscious", IS the unconscious
    Santoshima Resident: imho
    Eliza Madrigal: could you unpack that a little San?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: listens
    Santoshima Resident: how would you like me to unpack that?
    Santoshima Resident: in a way that i can address what is not being made clear
    Santoshima Resident: i'll do my best
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, for me, body is the area I most neglect perhaps.... pretty much where Sophia and I began the discussion... that body seems to house emotion... or...
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... well your statement is intriguing



    SophiaSharon Larnia: body awareness wakes up emotions it seems
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is very intriguing
    Santoshima Resident: ok
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and ill have to think about it
    Santoshima Resident: how you just expressed that
    Santoshima Resident: about emotions
    Santoshima Resident: has something to do with the idea of body/mind split
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods



    Santoshima Resident: when people become involved in yoga practice, for example
    Santoshima Resident: often strong emotions surface
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Santoshima Resident: as deeper levels of the body/mind are accessed/made known
    Zen Arado: physical practice San?
    Santoshima Resident: could be called that, zen
    Santoshima Resident: but much fuller than that
    Zen Arado: ok
    Santoshima Resident: could be through taiji
    Santoshima Resident: could be through yoga
    Santoshima Resident: music

    Zen Arado: didn't think physical exercises would touch emptions is all
    Santoshima Resident: ah, that might not be quite correct
    Santoshima Resident: dancing
    Zen Arado: but I can't do them anyway so have no knowledge or experience that way
    Zen Arado: dancing hmmm

    Korel Laloix: PHysical exerecion is a very powerful way to touch emotions.
    Santoshima Resident: you have your own ways?
    Eliza Madrigal: this happened to me with yoga, expressed earlier... cried and cried,... to me it seemed about integration, or rather its lack... of components freely communicating with one another....
    Korel Laloix: Dancing, running, sex, etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods.... and music is a powerful pointer as well...
    Santoshima Resident: yes, what are these meditation practices for, if not for integration


    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, what else for
    SophiaSharon Larnia: cries :)
    Zen Arado: like releasing emotions that are locked in the body in tension ?
    Santoshima Resident: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: speaking of body, I need to start dinner :D
    Santoshima Resident: :) bye Sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: I seem to know people who suppress things with physical activity too... so many balances...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now and thank you for the discussion
    Santoshima Resident: lovely to see you
    Zen Arado: :) bye Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia, thanks and happy to talk today
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    Zen Arado: I can only notice tensions
    Zen Arado: physical stuff is out
    Zen Arado: but that is helpful too
    Zen Arado: I see the source of the tension
    Zen Arado: the root is in the mind?




    Eliza Madrigal: well there are other yogas.... perhaps painting has been one way for you Zen?
    Eliza Madrigal: does it help you to examine your heart?
    Zen Arado: don't know
    Zen Arado: I just paint...I don't see any significance in it
    Zen Arado: maye my heart is locked away :(
    Zen Arado: :)
    Korel Laloix: I think we all take refuge in some physical action in one way or another.

    Zen Arado: I was wheelchair dancing last night
    Zen Arado: not too well
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: nods.. we 'come back' again and again
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Zen
    Santoshima Resident: cool, Zen <3
    Zen Arado: not if you saw me :)
    Zen Arado: but hey
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like a heart opening exercise to me :)
    Zen Arado: movement to music
    Santoshima Resident: yeah
    Zen Arado: if limited
    Santoshima Resident: we are all limited
    Zen Arado: yep
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Zen Arado: or enabled
    Santoshima Resident: that too!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: accepting one's limitations ... sigh



    Eliza Madrigal: I'm reminded of a kind of mash-up I did with a biblical proverb and buddhist 'paramitas' .....
    Zen Arado: mash-up?
    Eliza Madrigal: "cultivate the heart with all devotion for out of it spring the virtues of life"
    Eliza Madrigal: Korel, familiar with the original?

    Eliza Madrigal: :) anyway, smiling .... this has been an amazingly comforting discussion, thanks
    Zen Arado: how does one cultivate it?
    Eliza Madrigal: myriad forms
    Zen Arado: topic for another time
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: heart cultvation 104
    Zen Arado: :)
    Santoshima Resident: thanks for this conversation ~ sunshine here today is rare, so heading outside
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Enjoy the sunshine San
    Zen Arado: sorry I missed start
    Santoshima Resident: peace and love, everyone!
    Eliza Madrigal: sun is setting here already
    Eliza Madrigal: *peace and love*
    Zen Arado: bye San
    Korel Laloix: Take care.
    Eliza Madrigal: coming back to the pavilion as a kind of touchstone can be a sort of devotion/yoga too ... re
    Eliza Madrigal: cultivation :)
    Zen Arado: yeh I guess
    Zen Arado: our grounding place

    Eliza Madrigal: yeah, I guess it isn't what one does but awareness
    Korel Laloix: To me it is a good chat and company.
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Korel Laloix: osiyo
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Qt


    Zen Arado: that is spiritual too Korel I think
    Eliza Madrigal: both path and end :)
    Zen Arado: have to improve my typing ..new year resolution :)
    Zen Arado: the pathless path
    Zen Arado: Along thre pathless path...through the gateless gate...
    Zen Arado: Ariiving where I never left
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: and can't be too late :)
    Zen Arado: Can never be too late..is better
    Eliza Madrigal: - We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
    Zen Arado: yep
    Zen Arado: TSEliot
    Eliza Madrigal: yep
    Zen Arado: it starts to unravel meaning for me
    Zen Arado: now
    Zen Arado: resonances ring in our hearts
    Zen Arado: down the dim lanes of memory
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    pab new years_002.png

    Zen Arado: new meanings emerging
    Eliza Madrigal: adaptability, spontaneity
    Zen Arado: so often surprising , unasked
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: a shock to our strategising minds

    Zen Arado: that wants life neat and pigeonholed
    Eliza Madrigal: minds have a context too... though...
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed maybe are a context
    Zen Arado: nicely arranged to suit our 'self'
    Eliza Madrigal: selves are fine too... just need exposure :)
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) dancing
    Zen Arado: a dancing context
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) nice
    Zen Arado: 'Everybody dance...just listen to the music ...'
    Eliza Madrigal: ...life being danced....


    Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks friends....
    Zen Arado: thanks to all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New Year!!
    Korel Laloix: Take care all.
    Zen Arado: take care :)
    Qt Core: Bye all
    Korel Laloix: Hope youre new year gets to a good start.
    Korel Laloix: ciao
    Eliza Madrigal: you too Korel :)
    Eliza Madrigal: And Qt and Zen :) ::::warm wishes::::
    Qt Core: :0
    Qt Core: :)

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    Thanks for the addition of the beautiful photos, Santoshima!
    Posted 22:01, 2 Jan 2012
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