2012.01.02 07:00 - Thoughts and Feelings

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Steve Michinaga, Tess Aristocrat, Xirana Oximoxi and myself

    Abstract painting:)

    Zen Arado: Hi Tess :)
    Tess Aristocrat: Good day :)
    Zen Arado: quiet around here today
    Tess Aristocrat: seems so...
    Zen Arado: quietness is nice too sometimes
    Zen Arado: I talk too much sometimes
    Zen Arado: Hi Xirana :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: hi Zen, Tess!!! :)
    Zen Arado: Tess is afk atm
    Xirana Oximoxi: welcome as a new Guardian tess! :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: ah ok!
    Xirana Oximoxi: I visited you new exhibition Zen! wonderful..I like our abstract paintings very much
    Zen Arado: is making coffee
    Zen Arado: ty Xirana
    Xirana Oximoxi: yw:)
    Zen Arado: you are getting more abstract arn't you?
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes!! and more expressionist.. I let myself go more freee..not worrying about proportions or perspective ...
    Zen Arado: we kind of creep into abstraction
    Zen Arado: best way
    Xirana Oximoxi: welll... long ago I did paint abstract... now I usually like to have a reference to the visual world:)
    Zen Arado: that doesn't seem to work for me
    Zen Arado: if I put real elements I start to paint them 'correctly'
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)) I start painting 'correctly' and try to drestry and change it:)
    Xirana Oximoxi: destroy*
    Zen Arado: have you any books about painting abstractly?
    Xirana Oximoxi: you mean about the theorie?

    Zen Arado: yes and techniques
    Xirana Oximoxi: Kandinsky wrote about it
    Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh techniques are the same...
    Xirana Oximoxi: you can paint with oils or do mix with acrylics
    Tess Aristocrat: wanders back in, coffee in hand :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: a lot of artist use mixed techniques with sand or other elements... but the paintings usually go damaged after a few years
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello Tess!!!!
    Tess Aristocrat: Hello :) How are you :)
    Zen Arado: wb Tess :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: welcome as a new Guardian! :)
    Zen Arado: yes I found this book very helpful: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Painting-Abs...5517390&sr=8-1
    Zen Arado: by a Dutch woman
    Xirana Oximoxi: thank you Zen!
    Xirana Oximoxi: anyway...you've got the advantage that you know composition... and even if abstract it's important
    Zen Arado: yes maybe
    Zen Arado: it is a good book to get you started
    Zen Arado: then you can develop from that
    Xirana Oximoxi: another good way is to see works of other artists...that's what I always do
    Zen Arado: yes..but I worry that I then copy them
    Tess Aristocrat: Zen, you had mentioned the abstract display..when will that be?
    Zen Arado: but there's nothig new under the sun I guess
    Zen Arado: it is on now Tess
    Tess Aristocrat: oh!
    Xirana Oximoxi: you should not worry to copy them!!1 :)... your personality will show anyway!!
    Zen Arado: there wasn't any opening
    Xirana Oximoxi: your tastes in colours, textures...
    Zen Arado: look at my picks for LM
    Zen Arado: yes
    Tess Aristocrat: Is it at the Rose?..oh, ok :)
    Zen Arado: it can be letting paint do its own thing
    Xirana Oximoxi: at Artropolis
    Tess Aristocrat: yes, there can be no two abstracts alike
    Zen Arado: I can't change picks in V2 I find
    Zen Arado: had to go back to Phoenix
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes... the painting itself tells you how to follow working sometimes
    Zen Arado: it's getting 'me' out of the way maybe :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: to continue* (I meant)
    Tess Aristocrat: That's the best thing about them..They Do reflect the person's feelings, whatever they may be in that moment, and they're each as different as a fingerprint :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: 0901458f-75f0-cd11-4c23-4ad156eb8cde
    Zen Arado: I have to start painting again
    Xirana Oximoxi: opps, sorry..I wanted to copy the LM to Zen's exhibition..I give you Tess
    Zen Arado: what is that code Xirana?
    Xirana Oximoxi: I don't know how to do to paste a LM in the chat.
    Tess Aristocrat: I've never painted..I wonder what would happen if I did :)
    Zen Arado: me either
    Zen Arado: :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I see people sometimes do
    Zen Arado: can put it on a notecard
    Xirana Oximoxi: Tess... you will only know if you try! :)
    Zen Arado: but it's on my Picks is easier
    Tess Aristocrat: yes..
    Zen Arado: Hi Steve :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: hello Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Zen, Tess, Xirana
    Tess Aristocrat: Stevie :) Happy New Year <3
    Zen Arado: I only started when I took early retirement
    stevenaia Michinaga: Happy New Year to you all
    Zen Arado: for something to do
    Zen Arado: you too Steve :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: thank you Steve!!! the same to you!! :)

    Congratulations to Tess:

    stevenaia Michinaga: and congratulations to tess
    Zen Arado: you will know all our dark secrets now Tess :)
    Tess Aristocrat: heh...
    stevenaia Michinaga: Don't forget the secret handshake
    Xirana Oximoxi: hehe
    Tess Aristocrat: lollll
    Zen Arado: he he
    Zen Arado: it's onigokk o :)
    Zen Arado: kidding :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Tess Aristocrat: I don't see it in my groups..
    Zen Arado: you have to ask Wol or Storm for that
    Zen Arado: I wondered about that too
    Zen Arado: anyone else can join here Steve?
    Zen Arado: her*
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Guardian_Pages/PaB_Handbook/Guardian_Mentor_Coordinator
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am the Guardian mentor coordinator
    stevenaia Michinaga: until we actually have mentor to coordinate, call me if you have nay questions and I can usually find out who has the answers
    stevenaia Michinaga: *any
    Tess Aristocrat: ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: a tough job cooordinating yourself

    Xirana Oximoxi: I received an nvitation to the group from Eliza...
    Tess Aristocrat: yes, as did I
    Xirana Oximoxi: first time it did not work... I asked her again and second time it was ok
    Tess Aristocrat: That may be the issue
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes... ask her again
    Tess Aristocrat: unless 'Friends of Play as Being' is the group?
    Zen Arado: no
    Xirana Oximoxi: no...this one is general
    Zen Arado: playasbeinghere
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Zen Arado: we are talking through the breaks today tch tch..
    Xirana Oximoxi: yes...I am sorry!

    NY resolutions:

    Tess Aristocrat: Well, as the break is over, any New Year's resolutions?
    Zen Arado: knocks guardians into shape :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: :)
    Zen Arado: yes to observe breaks :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: I don't do a special 'balance' at the end of the year...so, no special resolutions...I do time to time...when body and mind ask me to do it:)
    Zen Arado: tell yours first Tess?
    Zen Arado: trying to think of one
    Zen Arado: I'm not good with them
    Tess Aristocrat: Well...to stop smoking..Again..and again if needed
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh :)
    Zen Arado: a good one
    Xirana Oximoxi: very good one:)
    Zen Arado: but difficult:)
    Tess Aristocrat: to reorganize my house
    Tess Aristocrat: and my life
    Xirana Oximoxi: I stopped long ago... and it's really healthy
    stevenaia Michinaga: (don;t get carried away)
    Zen Arado: I gave up over 30 years ago
    Zen Arado: reorganize my apartment yes
    Tess Aristocrat: and to keep my priorities in perspective
    Zen Arado: really need to do that
    Zen Arado: so much clutter
    Xirana Oximoxi: well... to reorganise the house soetimes is easier than reorganise our lifes :)
    Zen Arado: I have to get rid of books
    Tess Aristocrat: sometimes..it goes hand in hand
    Zen Arado: but I also want to keep them :(
    Zen Arado: yes Tess
    Zen Arado: artists have so much clutter
    Tess Aristocrat: Give them to the Library
    Zen Arado: canvases brushes paints old paintings...
    Tess Aristocrat: except the very most farvored.
    Zen Arado: yes
    Tess Aristocrat: favs*
    Zen Arado: or charity shop
    Zen Arado: have so many philosophy books
    Tess Aristocrat: that way..you can always go *visit them
    Zen Arado: and some were expensive
    Tess Aristocrat: let them go
    Zen Arado: hmmm good idea
    Zen Arado: must ring them
    Tess Aristocrat: let someone else discover what you did :)
    Zen Arado: and promptly forgot again :)
    Tess Aristocrat: WB Stevie
    Zen Arado: wb Steve :)

    Philosophical thinking:

    Zen Arado: I discovered I didn't need all that philosophical thinking :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx, viewer crash
    Tess Aristocrat: you know, I never read any of the big philosophers..
    Tess Aristocrat: I wanted to have my own ideas
    Zen Arado: it is an endless ocean
    Zen Arado: yes Tess
    Zen Arado: I like to DO philosophy..not just quote philosophers
    Tess Aristocrat: I don't mean for that to sound egotistical..
    Zen Arado: it is learning to think clearly
    Tess Aristocrat: I just wanted to draw my own conclusions
    Zen Arado: I know what you mean
    Zen Arado: me too
    stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve found (perhaps luckilly) that my own ideas fall into someone else previous thinking
    stevenaia Michinaga: like finding a friend
    Tess Aristocrat: :)
    Zen Arado: my philosophy tutor told me that if I think I have thought up a new idea I am likely mistaken
    stevenaia Michinaga: saves me the trouble of thinking it all up myself
    Tess Aristocrat: 'there's nothing you can sing that can't be sung'
    stevenaia Michinaga: (hoping that's not Barry Manilow)
    Tess Aristocrat: beatles
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Tess Aristocrat: lolll
    Zen Arado: 'All you need is Love'
    Tess Aristocrat: but don't act like you don't know every word to Barry's songs :P
    Zen Arado: lo l
    Tess Aristocrat: everyone does!
    Zen Arado: better than philosophy anyway :)

    Studying the self:

    Tess Aristocrat: i think a lot of song writers are poets and philosophers too, really :)
    Zen Arado: was thinking about this this morning: ' Dogen [the thirteenth-century Zen master] said that to study Buddhism is to study the self. To study the self—your thoughts, etc.—is to forget the self. And to forget the self is . . . what? It’s to be enlightened by all things.'
    Zen Arado: yes Tess
    Zen Arado: poetry is deeper thinking maybe
    Zen Arado: so much to learn just from or in our own 'self'
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems it's all there waiting to be discovered
    Zen Arado: ' Suppose somebody has hurt my feelings—or so I think. What I want to do is to go over and over and over that drama so I can blame them and get to be right. To turn away from such thinking and just experience the painful body is to forget the self. If you really experience something without thoughts, there is no self—there’s just a vibration of energy. When you practice like that ten thousand times, you will be more selfless. It doesn’t mean that you’re a ghost. It means that you’re much more non-reactive, in the world but not of it. Dualism transforms into non-dualism, a life of direct and compassionate functioning.'
    Zen Arado: it's from Joko Beck
    Zen Arado: a Zen teacher who died recently
    Tess Aristocrat: Seems we humans are the only ones that feel sorry for ourselves
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Zen Arado: we mull over things
    stevenaia Michinaga: and then.... we do not :)
    Zen Arado: dogs live in the present so well I think
    Zen Arado: how do you mean Steve?
    Xirana Oximoxi: I must go now... nice day to all and see you soon! :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: after enough feeling sorry, you work through it, perhaps you blame "them" or experience no blame
    Zen Arado: ok ty for coming Xirana :)
    Tess Aristocrat: a small bird will fall dead, frozen from a branch never once having felt sorry for itself
    Zen Arado: byee
    stevenaia Michinaga: like who's fault is fate
    Tess Aristocrat: Xirana, take care :)
    Xirana Oximoxi: ty to you Zen, Tess and Steve for this nice company and time:)
    Zen Arado: yes I read that somewhere Tess
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye,
    Zen Arado: a little sparrow just faling off a frozen branch
    Tess Aristocrat: yes, it is from a poet..can't recall his name
    Zen Arado: doesn't say 'this isn't right'
    Zen Arado: or complain
    Tess Aristocrat: I should google it to get the guy's name
    Zen Arado: though what Joko says is a kind of shortcut through the thoughts I think
    Zen Arado: just going directly to the energy of the feelings themselves
    Zen Arado: ruminating thoughts magnify the suffering
    Zen Arado: why is that so hard to learn?
    Zen Arado: I'm getting there I hope
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think once you truly inderstand that it resolves nothing, you usually stop
    Zen Arado: yeh you see through it
    Zen Arado: but old habits die hard
    Tess Aristocrat: Well, for one, we don't address the issue
    stevenaia Michinaga: like when you stop hitting your head against the wall cause it feels so good when you stop
    Zen Arado: wish I had discovered all this years ago
    Zen Arado: yes :)
    Zen Arado: I spent all my life learning how to enjoy it
    stevenaia Michinaga: understanding your self is the key
    Zen Arado: but won't live long enough to :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: so you can make changes
    Zen Arado: I think the changes just come naturally when you see it
    Zen Arado: no effort
    Tess Aristocrat: What kind of changes?
    Tess Aristocrat: Just don't think about it?
    Zen Arado: being able to not get disturbed so much by emotions for one
    Zen Arado: by just staying with the feeling
    Zen Arado: cutting thrrough the thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: letting go of things, like worrry, which I ahve found contributes nothing to resolving the problem at hand
    Zen Arado: though I can't claim to have mastered it
    stevenaia Michinaga: like stress
    Zen Arado: sometimes problems resolve themselves if we step out of fthe way
    Zen Arado: but others require action
    stevenaia Michinaga: one way or they other, they do

    stevenaia Michinaga: looking back everything that brought you here was resolved
    Zen Arado: but when we can allow thoughts to drop away a bit we can see more clearly and make a better decision
    Zen Arado: yes Steve
    Zen Arado: or is there any 'better' decision?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have never met anyone who said, glad I worryed that problem into a solution
    Zen Arado: yeh..soutions...
    Zen Arado: might only be short term
    Zen Arado: we jsut do our best with what arises
    stevenaia Michinaga: but worry is a physical manistation and is not particually heathly from what I understand
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Zen Arado: repetitive thought
    stevenaia Michinaga: (chemistry that results from stress)
    Tess Aristocrat: Well, I'd better get about my day..was good to spend time with you folks :)
    Zen Arado: good to see you Tess :)

    Bills and the economy:

    stevenaia Michinaga: bye tess, I am doing monthly billy, this has been nice
    Zen Arado: have ageat day :)
    Zen Arado: oh ...bilss
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Zen Arado: nearly like 'bliss'
    Zen Arado: bad time for bills...after Christmas
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, bat time even w/o christmas :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: *bad
    Zen Arado: it's funny that we nee dto spend to stimulate the econmy
    Zen Arado: yet the govt tells ppl to save
    stevenaia Michinaga: yet if they save to much, crisis!!!
    Zen Arado: yeh
    Zen Arado: no work cos no goods needed
    Zen Arado: I don't understand it
    stevenaia Michinaga: someones economic sence of equilibrium that is never quite right
    Zen Arado: growth it has to be
    Zen Arado: it seems
    Zen Arado: it can't grow forever?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think that is the problem- Growth (More) is always good
    stevenaia Michinaga: if things are in balance they say "Stagnation"
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: I don't think anyone really understands the economy
    stevenaia Michinaga: and the "more" is jsut consumption
    Zen Arado: it is too complex
    Zen Arado: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, exactly, they only pretend
    Zen Arado: they are wise after events
    stevenaia Michinaga: if they understood, they could predict
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: crystal ball is just as good :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: and who are the fools that belive these weathermen, who know more and are equally inaccurtate
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: though they are getting more accurate
    Zen Arado: but only up to 4 or 5 days
    stevenaia Michinaga: one would hope so
    Zen Arado: life too has too many variables
    Zen Arado: unpredictable
    stevenaia Michinaga: economist predice quarters, years, cycles, the mayaiand did better at that
    stevenaia Michinaga: Maya ians
    Zen Arado: the world grows ever more complex too
    Zen Arado: I better go Steve
    Zen Arado: have to get back here for Original Face meeting
    stevenaia Michinaga: funny how Suthsayers are still in demand
    stevenaia Michinaga: ok Zen
    stevenaia Michinaga: have a good year
    Zen Arado: yes:)
    Zen Arado: you too
    Zen Arado: nice chatting Steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Soothsayers
    Zen Arado: bye
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

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