2012.01.07 01:00 - Subject.Object

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

     

    Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello multi, how's hte air up there?
    Multiverse1 Resident: fine, thought about what ssomeone had said about the rafters here
    Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: interesting view
    Wol Euler: you found our mascot :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: I guess
    Wol Euler: I wonder how many of us know that he's up there?
    Multiverse1 Resident: looks like a nut, the falcon does
    Multiverse1 Resident: or what is next to it
    Wol Euler: it's old :) pre-sculpty
    Multiverse1 Resident: I'm new to virtual world things, and just beginning
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: in the early days, before sculpties made it possible to create nearly any shape, things were a little cruder :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: Does your mascot have a name?
    Wol Euler: people brought a certain amount of "blurred vision" to the world
    Multiverse1 Resident: recognise primitive creations here
    Wol Euler: not that I know of


    --BELL--


    Multiverse1 Resident: see the depth of textures
    Multiverse1 Resident: It is technology, and the next step for us, as long as we can communicate via satelites
    Multiverse1 Resident: more quickly share information that way.
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Multiverse1 Resident: hi zon
    Zon Kwan: hey
    Wol Euler: perhaps it's about sharing emotion
    Multiverse1 Resident: zon, do you know of the falcon, up in the rafyers here?
    Zon Kwan: no...
    Wol Euler: and the tools to create/encourage them
    Multiverse1 Resident: emotion, ie: energy, becomes matter converted
    Multiverse1 Resident: the wholeness of it all
    Multiverse1 Resident: broken down, emotion is a very powerfull thing
    Multiverse1 Resident: the atomic bomb in a mind
    Wol Euler ponders that idea
    Zon Kwan: isnt emotion
    Zon Kwan: condensed
    Zon Kwan: thought
    Zon Kwan: that is ready
    Zon Kwan: to be expressed
    Zon Kwan: in action
    Multiverse1 Resident: some good some non-commital
    Multiverse1 Resident: was thinking of the many varied types of emotions
    Wol Euler: can you say more about "some good some non-commital", please?
    Multiverse1 Resident: condensed thought, like rain
    Multiverse1 Resident: I like that Zon
    Zon Kwan: repeated thought patterns create emotions
    Multiverse1 Resident: but emotions and the level thereof are like as varied as the birds
    Multiverse1 Resident: repeated thought patterns create some emotions, others are spontaneous
    Zon Kwan: how do spontaneoue emotion rise
    Multiverse1 Resident: more instinctive I think
    Zon Kwan: isnt it a rection
    Multiverse1 Resident: reactions that are inherent to us say, rather thah that of a bird
    Zon Kwan: reaction based on what i want or dont want
    Multiverse1 Resident: not as I see it
    Multiverse1 Resident: reaction to what happens, not what you "want" to happen


    --BELL--


    Zon Kwan: is something is not important for me, it doesnt rise much emotion for me, so can there be an emotion withoout someone to whom something happens and that is reacting
    Multiverse1 Resident: Wol, on your earlier inquisition, non-commital is nature inherently, it doesn't have an agenda, but just "is"
    Wol Euler: hmmm
    Multiverse1 Resident: I can have something unimportant create massive emotion in me
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure I understand you.
    Wol Euler: hmmmmmmm
    Multiverse1 Resident: non-commital is the natual order, it doesn't need emotion
    Zon Kwan: how, can you give an example ?
    Multiverse1 Resident: A HUGE WATERFALL
    Zon Kwan: hm
    Multiverse1 Resident: A SUNRISE
    Wol Euler: I think I feel emotions at those times and places though.
    Zon Kwan: one can sayi you have inbuilt desire to experience beauty
    Zon Kwan: so they are in that way important
    Multiverse1 Resident: maybe, but the waterfall has no emotion does it?
    Multiverse1 Resident: it is non-commital
    Zon Kwan: nobut you, the erperiencer do
    Wol Euler: I do, though
    Zon Kwan: expereincer
    Zon Kwan: grr
    Multiverse1 Resident: is thas a re-action then?
    Wol Euler: listening to music produces emotion in me, though the music itself is inanimate
    Zon Kwan: experiencer
    Zon Kwan: yes, to me
    Zon Kwan: the sight of beauty
    Multiverse1 Resident: not to somrthing "important"
    Zon Kwan: causes an emoton in me
    Zon Kwan: hm
    Wol Euler: well, "important" varies with the circumstances
    Zon Kwan: if i dont have the repect for beauty in me
    Wol Euler: music is important when I am listening to it with intent, and not if it's just background
    Zon Kwan: if my senses are dull
    Zon Kwan: i dont expereince that feeling
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, my feeling from zon was importance in the humanity part of the world, is that what you meant zon?
    Zon Kwan: no..i meant it has value for the expereincer
    Zon Kwan: that it was important for him/her
    Multiverse1 Resident: ok then, I react
    Multiverse1 Resident: since all is important
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, even the invisible falcon
    Zon Kwan: what is important is subjective expereince
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, even the invisible falcon?
    Wol Euler: sure :)
    Zon Kwan: what is invisible falcon ?


    --BELL--


    Multiverse1 Resident: So the objective collective view becomes subjective when the collective becomes as one, " a group" of one. So then there is no objective viewpoint then? Venn diagrams again.
    Wol Euler struggles to understand that
    Zon Kwan: objective is only generalised subjectivity
    Multiverse1 Resident: Can you not have emotion and an objective viewpoint?
    Zon Kwan: no
    Multiverse1 Resident: apparently not
    Wol Euler: I equate emotion with subjectivity, when I come to think about it
    Multiverse1 Resident: the non-commital
    Multiverse1 Resident: objectivity is incompatible to emotion then
    Wol Euler: emotion gets inthe way of objectivity, in my experience
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes 99% of the tyme
    Multiverse1 Resident: sometymes it has the opposite affect
    Multiverse1 Resident: makes you think about your subjective stance.
    Multiverse1 Resident: stopping for the 9 secs
    Wol Euler: really? when has emotion made you more objective?
    Multiverse1 Resident: steers me in a new direction sometymes
    Multiverse1 Resident: I wonder if the Multiverse would agree with it's subjectivity
    Multiverse1 Resident: or the rock, or the falcon
    Zon Kwan: existence is a process between subject and object so no pure subjectivity or objectivity exists
    Multiverse1 Resident: ah, they exist at the same instnt, one does not preclude or follow the other
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Multiverse1 Resident: therefore, you can not be one without the other?
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Multiverse1 Resident: so I and you are ob-sub-jective?
    Multiverse1 Resident: or is it sub-objective
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zon Kwan: i am subjective point
    Multiverse1 Resident: so here am I
    Zon Kwan: you are my object
    Zon Kwan: and vice versa
    Wol Euler nods.


    --BELL--


    Multiverse1 Resident: we actually are each others objects at this increment, yes
    Zon Kwan: at same time
    Zon Kwan: and when we agree, we are one
    Zon Kwan: subject.object
    Zon Kwan: consciosness process
    Multiverse1 Resident: so then we are subjective objects then, I'm so glad I've found what I am!
    Wol Euler: there is a practice we do at our retreats of experiencing oneself as an object
    Zon Kwan: how ?
    Wol Euler: being seen by something outside ourself
    Multiverse1 Resident: The fountain could be considered a subjective object also
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Wol Euler: I'd have to look up the proper form of words
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, a pratice I have seen
    Wol Euler: but basically it's a thought experiment to reverse the directioin of that me-subject looks at that-object
    Wol Euler: being seen by the stapler on the desk
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, becoming the "rock"
    Wol Euler: not projecting my consciousness into it and looking at my body
    Multiverse1 Resident: hmm
    Wol Euler: but remaining "here" in myself, and experiencing being seen as the object of it's view
    Multiverse1 Resident: subjectivly possible?
    Zon Kwan: enlargening my subjectivity or transfering it ?
    Multiverse1 Resident: reflecting it off yourself for a tyme?
    Wol Euler: it is possible for you if you experience it, and not (for you) if you don't :)
    Wol Euler: try it and see :)
    Wol Euler: zon, neither
    Multiverse1 Resident: I understand and agree, thus "you" are objective at thet point
    Wol Euler: I suppose it's about reducing the specialness of that "you" which has subjective views
    Zon Kwan: but then you are not you ?
    Multiverse1 Resident: reducing or shedding
    Wol Euler: well, at one level of thought "you" is a convenient fiction
    Wol Euler: or a map of your possibilities
    Multiverse1 Resident: you are not you then you are non-you
    Zon Kwan: if i not something..it is object..subject cant see subject ?
    Zon Kwan: note
    Wol Euler: the "me" which sits here right now is a different one than when I am having lunch with my mother in a restaurant :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: or the me sitting here tomorrow
    Wol Euler: these are momentary fictions
    Wol Euler: useful, sure; and we do experience them
    Wol Euler: but none of them is all of us, all of our potentials
    Multiverse1 Resident: apiece of ourselves
    Multiverse1 Resident: like are fingers or toes, only in steps of tyme
    Zon Kwan: the fiction of "I"
    Multiverse1 Resident: I in here and now
    Multiverse1 Resident: Not I in the here and when
    Wol Euler nods.
    Multiverse1 Resident: small i perhaps
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zon Kwan: small i is a thought point
    Multiverse1 Resident: the leter that makes up the sentence that makes the paragraph that completes the page that starts chapter 1 of the book
    Wol Euler: actually much of religiuos practice is about reducing teh importance of the "I"
    Wol Euler: "have compassion for all living things" for example
    Wol Euler: removes our specialness
    Zon Kwan: because all living things are Is
    Multiverse1 Resident: The way it should be
    Zon Kwan: thought points
    Zon Kwan: in the ocean
    Multiverse1 Resident: human "importance
    Multiverse1 Resident: civilization in an uncivilized world
    Multiverse1 Resident: the answer people
    Wol Euler: although "civilized" immediately re-assigns specialness :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: not to me


    --BELL--


    Zon Kwan: awareness in unaware world
    Wol Euler: you don't feel that "civilized" has the flavour of being superior to "uncivilized" or "barbarian"?
    Multiverse1 Resident: no I don't
    Wol Euler: interesting
    Wol Euler: to me "civilized" is a value judgement, and a harsh one
    Multiverse1 Resident: why should I judge that? I am not objectivly qualified.
    Wol Euler shakes her head.
    Wol Euler: I'm talking about the word, using the word
    Wol Euler: if somebody says that I am uncivilized, I infer that they wish to insult me
    Wol Euler: or to express how very much better than me they are
    Multiverse1 Resident: 475,987 years from now it will not make a difference
    Zon Kwan: part of existance is more aware (=subjective part) part less (objective part)
    Multiverse1 Resident: hmm
    Multiverse1 Resident: so where is non-existance in this mash of things?
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure. Where do you see it?
    Multiverse1 Resident: where it is, the mirror of existance
    Zon Kwan: non existance is when sibjective objective game ends
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes
    Multiverse1 Resident: or begins
    Zon Kwan: in between
    Multiverse1 Resident: why play the game?
    Zon Kwan: wrong question
    Multiverse1 Resident: then?
    Zon Kwan: why do children play
    Zon Kwan: becasue they are children
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, why not play the game, it's mirror image
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Multiverse1 Resident: always the yin and yang
    Multiverse1 Resident: the see saw
    Zon Kwan: building sandcastles
    Zon Kwan: is fun
    Wol Euler: brb
    Multiverse1 Resident: the waves wash ashore
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Zon Kwan: adn we dont get bored
    Multiverse1 Resident: only to build another
    Zon Kwan: enjoying the process
    Multiverse1 Resident: nothing wrong with that
    Multiverse1 Resident: building my own sandcastle here
    Alfred Kelberry: woly girl!
    Alfred Kelberry: hi folks :)
    Zon Kwan: hi alfie
    Multiverse1 Resident: waiting for the waves to reach the shore
    Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Alf
    Zon Kwan: rl calls, waves
    Multiverse1 Resident: hehe
    Alfred Kelberry: woly the human legs :)
    Wol Euler: hehehhe
    Wol Euler: morning, boxy
    Multiverse1 Resident: poof
    Alfred Kelberry: you guys been up for a while since i fell asleep last night
    Multiverse1 Resident: I slept
    Wol Euler: we haven't been here the whole time :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Wol Euler: at least I haven't
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, you have a nice fresh morning look :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Multiverse1 Resident: and now awoke, zon crashed I think
    Alfred Kelberry: ok, will be implementing my idea from yesterday
    Wol Euler: which idea?
    Alfred Kelberry: er, you'll see :)
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Multiverse1 Resident: I am not very fresh though, the shower is calling
    Alfred Kelberry: it's regarding my nose
    Alfred Kelberry: not the payment though
    Multiverse1 Resident: again boxy's nose!
    Wol Euler: ah, the donation nose?
    Wol Euler: (should I take that out of the log?)
    Multiverse1 Resident: the ears have it for me
    Alfred Kelberry: no, not that
    Alfred Kelberry: it's on the list though


    --BELL--


    Multiverse1 Resident: boxy, do you know of the falcon in the rafters here?
    Alfred Kelberry: nope
    Wol Euler: shhhhh
    Multiverse1 Resident: sorry bell

     

    Boxy has placed a cube in the Playgoda which presents a random selection of quotes from our 2008 sessions.


    Multiverse1 Resident: Nice lnk boxy, thnx
    Multiverse1 Resident: link
    Alfred Kelberry: these are qoutes from past sessions
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes I see
    Multiverse1 Resident: been there a few tymes
    Alfred Kelberry: what's woly up to?
    Wol Euler: example for the log: "Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have become very aware lately that my atheism is really anger. [Logic Is Not Helping]"
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: caught that one also
    Wol Euler is drinking coffee, being hungry, listening to music, speaking and listening, aware of a stiffness in her shoulder, thinking about the afternoon#s chores
    Multiverse1 Resident: the "anger" of atheism
    Alfred Kelberry: ouch, why did you mention stiffness *feels that now* :)
    Alfred Kelberry: being hungry is easy to fix
    Multiverse1 Resident: shower for me then, Hot water across mine, be well both and be,well just be.
    Wol Euler: bye multi, takec are
    Alfred Kelberry: shower well, multi :)
    Wol Euler: be clean :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :P
    Alfred Kelberry: gah! missed your qoute
    Wol Euler: I should move on too, get some food in before I faint
    Alfred Kelberry: order chinese :)
    Wol Euler: for breakfast? bleh
    Alfred Kelberry: don't label it. just meal time :)
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Wol Euler: okay, moving on
    Wol Euler: take care, boxy, enjoy the day
    Alfred Kelberry: ok, eat well

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