2012.01.15 13:00 - Just what came up

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Korel, Wol
    Wol Euler: hello aph, korel
    Korel Laloix: Bozho
    Korel Laloix: Anyone want to join me up here?
    Wol Euler is feeling too lazy :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Looks a little precarious.
    Wol Euler: but thanks for the offer
    Aphrodite Macbain: You are like my cats Korel
    Aphrodite Macbain: they like to have a good view of things
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aggers. Hellow
    Agatha Macbeth: Hellow Aph [grin]
    Korel Laloix: The cat that has us likes to have a good view of my lap.
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Korel Laloix: Which I don't mind as he is very warm and purrs a lot.
    Wol Euler: it's always a tricky question with cats, who own whom
    Agatha Macbeth: what's it like up there?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Stevenaia, Hiya Samúð
    Korel Laloix: Cool.
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice :p
    Aphrodite Macbain: yup - I changed. Bruce is now taking my saturday session
    Agatha Macbeth: Nothin like being above it all
    Aphrodite Macbain: What's new everyone?
    Wol Euler: hello sam
    Korel Laloix: Wish I could be like this RL.

    oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
    oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
    oO0Oo Resident: /▌
    oO0Oo Resident: / \
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi 0 [poke]
    oO0Oo Resident: :) Aggers
    Aphrodite Macbain: brb. Cat’s going crazy
    stevenaia Michinaga: Waves to Samúð

    Agatha Macbeth: The cat's going crazy?
    Aphrodite Macbain: She's discovered she can open the cat treats

    Agatha Macbeth: The things a cat will do to get fed eh?

    Korel Laloix: The things I will do to get coffee and chocolate... smiles

    AAgatha Macbeth: come on in Liz :) Lady in red
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh wow
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sam, Stevenaia, Agatha, Wol, Aphrodite, Korel :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: superwoman...
    Wol Euler smiles.

    Eliza Madrigal: there was a word used in the last presentation that I missed due to bad audio... had to do with combining soldier and dandy....
    Eliza Madrigal: he said it was his favorite term and then to me it sounded like blurble blurble
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh I remember that bit
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't remember what he said tho :(
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: I should have asked but got booted off
    Agatha Macbeth: Something-warrior?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose that can be the main problem of having voice chat- it's not recorded
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll take a recorder in next time :)
    Wol Euler: don't remember that, perhaps it was before I got there
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, voice recorder not too useful in a cafe' either :)
    Agatha Macbeth: I remember him saying it, but forgot the punch line!
    Eliza Madrigal: anyway, thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Ok, sry
    Korel Laloix: What was the joke?
    Agatha Macbeth: That's the point K, don't remember!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Agatha Macbeth: Shows what kind of attention span I have...
    Wol Euler: :(
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh?


    Aphrodite Macbain: Too bad not many people are going to be able to attend the retreat in June
    Wol Euler: yes, I got (and replied to) Eliza's mail
    Eliza Madrigal: seems that way Aphrodite just posted the morning session...
    Agatha Macbeth looks
    Aphrodite Macbain: Only 3 people so far - Zen, Pema and Wol
    Wol Euler: seems to be three of us counting Zen (the local organizer)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Zen
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes can he do it on his own I wonder?

    Telling jokes

    Korel Laloix: Can you name two subjects and a verb in the joke?
    Wol Euler: (not actually a joke, Korel, just a metaphor for Eliza's remembering the setting-up but not the ending)
    Korel Laloix: OH OK..
    Wol Euler: brb
    Aphrodite Macbain: A rabbi and a priest were rowing a boat...
    Aphrodite Macbain: that's the beginning of many jokes
    Korel Laloix: If I try, I can remember like three jokes.
    Korel Laloix: But it takes a while.
    Aphrodite Macbain: If I remember I joke, I have a hard time telling it. My
    Aphrodite Macbain: timing
    Aphrodite Macbain: is
    Aphrodite Macbain: off
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: I love to hear jokes told badly
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder if telling a joke or a story is a skill we are born with
    Eliza Madrigal: some do seem naturally good at it
    Aphrodite Macbain: It may also have to do with tone of voice, speed, and um... good memory
    Eliza Madrigal: some ability to pace well

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Bertram
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Arch
    Bertram Jacobus: hi everybody :-)
    Wol Euler: hello bert, arch
    oO0Oo Resident: Hey!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to see so many of us. I've been away for a while and have missed you
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Blessings to all
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Berti and Arch


    Jan 15  pavilion.jpg


    Archmage Atlantis: Chester is disturbed
    Archmage Atlantis: So we are here seeking peace
    Aphrodite Macbain: Disturbed? How?
    Archmage Atlantis: If I knew, I could calm him
    Bertram Jacobus: who or what is chester, please ?
    Korel Laloix: Actually, I come here specifically not look for peace.
    Bertram Jacobus: oops - yes aggers lol
    Archmage Atlantis: There is something in the atmosphere
    Aphrodite Macbain sniffs the air

    Korel Laloix: I want to hear new things that make my mind work, not relax.
    Archmage Atlantis: That is a good start, Korel
    Archmage Atlantis: My mind woks constantly
    Agatha Macbeth: Mine too unfortunately
    Archmage Atlantis: In the beginning we became
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe turning off your mind lets you see more
    Aphrodite Macbain: or see differently
    Archmage Atlantis: Listening to music that is from a disturbed time
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Korel Laloix: Not sure about more; seeing, like listening, has to be active to really be effective.
    Agatha Macbeth: I know that feeling Arch
    Korel Laloix: But maybe seeing differently.

    stevenaia Michinaga: off to RL...bye

    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Stevie
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Stevenaia, say hello for me
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Stevenaia

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bert, are you leading a meditation today at 2?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes aph - i´ll do so (the meditation session at 2) ... sry, i was distracted ...
    Aphrodite Macbain: np. thanks bertram
    Wol Euler: :(
    Korel Laloix: Where at for the meditation?
    Aphrodite Macbain: in Perfect Paradise
    Korel Laloix: OH OK. Probably won't happen today, but might make it some time.
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll write a group note ... with lm attached ...
    Archmage Atlantis: Could we speak about Perfect Paradise

    Archmage Atlantis: Cause the 2 founders are interesting ppl


    Archmage Atlantis: My dear mother left me when I was quite young. She said lord have mercy on her wicked son

    Aphrodite Macbain: mothers are powerful beings
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Aphrodite Macbain: they have more power than most- especially to their kids
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
    Archmage Atlantis: There is nothing to be sorry about
    Korel Laloix: Still can't figure out if my mother hated me so much, why did she just not give me up for adoption.

    Aphrodite Macbain: are you sure your mother hated you korel?
    Korel Laloix: Without a doubt.
    Wol Euler sighs.
    Wol Euler: that
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-(
    Wol Euler: that's a sad thing to have to say
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: does it help to see her as having an illness Korel?
    Aphrodite Macbain:    In a course I'm taking, I'm learning how the first years of a child's life leave lasting impressions the rest of their life.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Archmage Atlantis: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: Trauma is something biological as well as psychological.
    Archmage Atlantis: there is a template formed in the first 2 or 3 years
    Korel Laloix: My mom is clearly nuts.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: that simplifies things...
    Korel Laloix: And yes it does, help. My only soft spot for her is that for her to have treated me like she did, she must have had a bad time of it as a little girl as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, we repeat our own experienceof others - a sort of mirroring
    Eliza Madrigal: if you go into that deeply it may change everything, not boundaries with her but give you some rest
    Wol Euler nods.
    Archmage Atlantis: My mom was strong, she raise her sisters and brothers,
    Archmage Atlantis: Yet the troubles my dad faced, came down to me
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders how these legacies can be undone
    Aphrodite Macbain: How can the principles of PaB contribute?
    Archmage Atlantis: probably cannot be
    Korel Laloix: One of the reasons I can't see myself ever having babies.
    Archmage Atlantis: Aph, we find strength
    Aphrodite Macbain: Can we drop the effects of trauma?
    Korel Laloix: I don’t want to pass this on... or am afraid of it.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Aphrodite Macbain: what specifically would you be passing on Korel?
    Archmage Atlantis: I will speak for how I see Korel
    Korel Laloix: Just afraid I would... even when people know the risks, they still tend to pass it down.
    Archmage Atlantis: She would pass on the strength to look at what has happened
    Archmage Atlantis: To sit in a circle
    Archmage Atlantis: and just simply be.
    Korel Laloix: Could be, but a have a fear.
    Korel Laloix: Maybe I will work that out, maybe I won't.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Having the strength to look at what has happened must be a gift
    Aphrodite Macbain: or something we can develop with practice.
    Korel Laloix: Or an act of desperation.
    Wol Euler: or all of the above

    Archmage Atlantis: Wol, u a good girl *chuckle*
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: act of desperation worked for me
    Aphrodite Macbain: desperation being the final impetus?

    Bertram Jacobus: i am so quiet because i find the topic so serious and i fear to say something wrong with my bad english ... but i thought about that as well : that legacies DO find an end, not only seldom. "Such can life be" i would say, and surroundings, circumstances, as well as work we do by our own can help with it ... i wish the very best for it (!) ...
    oO0Oo Resident: Nicely said Bertram
    Korel Laloix: Yes, thank you Bertram.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Bertram;

    Bertram Jacobus: and now i have to leave and prepare the meditation session - as said before : a group notice will come in the next minutes - ty everybody ! ...

    Eliza Madrigal: :) bye Bert, ty
    Korel Laloix: Take care.
    Wol Euler: bye for now, bert
    Bertram Jacobus: may all beings be happy, please
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! bert
    Aphrodite Macbain: CU soon
    Archmage Atlantis: Hasta luego, Bertie
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: Bye bert

    Aphrodite Macbain: We do have some control over our behaviour. We do have a choice. Eliza- when you said an act of desperation worked for you, what did you mean and how did it work -may I ask?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did something change?
    Eliza Madrigal: just to say transcendence is possible I suppose... that at some point the cost of holding on to resentment outweighed the benefit
    Wol Euler nods.
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: but simply that realization isn't enough
    Aphrodite Macbain: is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: think it starts with aspiration
    Eliza Madrigal: being willing to drop for a moment
    Eliza Madrigal: then maybe longer
    Wol Euler listens.
    Aphrodite Macbain: listens
    Eliza Madrigal: suspend history
    Eliza Madrigal: identity
    Eliza Madrigal: birth :)
    Aphrodite Macbain:!
    Eliza Madrigal: once I asked myself if this woman had told me her story, and not been my mom, what would I respond? How would I feel toward her?
    Wol Euler: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: and once I had a glimpse of a small child, and knew that was her before she'd developed such hardness
    Eliza Madrigal: which, is gone now as it turns out
    Eliza Madrigal: so, nothing fixed
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles
    Wol Euler: did that glimpse change anything for you, in your relation to her?
    Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a need to forgive
    Eliza Madrigal: and, she was there, whereas my father simply left
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: of course... changed so much
    Eliza Madrigal: became an object of meditation actually
    Eliza Madrigal: and filled with light
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: not an easy road though, not pretending :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a lot I hope my kids forgive me for
    Aphrodite Macbain: your mother became the object of meditation?
    Archmage Atlantis: oy vey, Ches just turned the phone on
    Eliza Madrigal: well, the image of her as a small child
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh yes- vulnerable and open
    Archmage Atlantis: so much for meditation
    Eliza Madrigal: years later I dreamed that she and I were opening closets and finding only blankets :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: and that is *true*
    Aphrodite Macbain: blankets are good; could have been worse!
    Aphrodite Macbain: =nurturing?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes in private I'm willing to talk about things but some know I didn't have a cushy childhood :) so, I think the things we talk about here matter a lot
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Wol Euler nods.
    Korel Laloix: It amazes me how many different ways that people find to cope
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders who among us thinks they have had a cushy childhood
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Belief in good

    Archmage Atlantis: i often wonder if I believe in good
    Archmage Atlantis: And I think
    Archmage Atlantis: that if I do not believe
    Archmage Atlantis: it won't exist
    Archmage Atlantis: if that make any sense
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, a lot
    Wol Euler: yes, it does
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Wol Euler: it will make a huge difference to your perception of the world you live in :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: if we think of the world as a projection of ourselves
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I think I'm over things but somehow saying all that made me start shivering, so... still some things to work out... maybe the balance of sharing... brb getting coffee

    oO0Oo Resident: . everything we see, hear, feel, taste, touch, experience.. even think.. is passed on, in passing when there is hope or fear, it doesn't pass through.. we catch it and hold it, for a time where it comes from, and where it goes is a difficult question to fully answer sometimes we think we have choice. If this, then this. when seeing that all our thoughts, words, and actions are constantly passing, when is it that we are not passing things on? Do we fully realize what we pass? What is passing? Isn't each moment what we have.. to orient our mind to what we may pass in the next?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Samuo.  Wonderful. Is that a quote or your words?,
    Wol Euler: wow. thank you, sam
    oO0Oo Resident: just what came up
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Sam
    Korel Laloix: Thanks for that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thinks: Do we fully realize what we pass?
    Eliza Madrigal: so nice.... happy to come back and the bell to read :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: come back?
    Eliza Madrigal: jaunted to the counter in the cafe' Aph, that's all

    Wol Euler: starbucks again, eliza

    Eliza Madrigal: uh huh, Wol :)

    Blending identities

    Archmage Atlantis: There is an essential element about myself that constantly confuses me
    Korel Laloix: I think we are all like that.
    Archmage Atlantis: I am a gay man, but I am very up in your face man?
    Archmage Atlantis: the 2 don't mix
    Korel Laloix: What do you mean?
    Wol Euler: clearly they mix in you, arch, if you are both :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: gay men can't be in your face?
    Eliza Madrigal: why not Arch? actually the presentation ahead of this session was sort of about blending of so called contrary identities
    Archmage Atlantis: I was born to hunt and defend
    Aphrodite Macbain: you are the living proof that they do arch
    Aphrodite Macbain: what presentation Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: art history, about Whistler the painter who combined identities from west point, bohemian culture, dandies...
    Eliza Madrigal: avatarness in the 1800s
    Archmage Atlantis: almost 2 time for pp
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh right. Sorry I missed it

    Korel Laloix: Have to head back to RL...
    Korel Laloix: Thanks for the chat all.
    Eliza Madrigal: K Korel, hugs
    Archmage Atlantis: me too, k
    Korel Laloix: ciao all.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Korel, Arch
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for sharing all that.
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye K take care
    Wol Euler: bye korel, thank you

    oO0Oo Resident late waves to Korel and Arch

    Wol Euler: and thank you too, eliza!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eliza. You are someone who not only has things to say but can say them well!
    Eliza Madrigal: that's kind, am glad if it helps.... timing has a lot to do with things, maybe just wishing to forgive is enough
    Wol Euler: it’s a very good start, and probably necessary
    Wol Euler: IMHO
    Aphrodite Macbain: I still have strong doubts about being able to make changes to my attitudes, so it's reassuring to hear that people have done it.
    Eliza Madrigal: amazing thing and very possible
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles
    Wol Euler smiles.

    Cats again

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you. Not only is it sunny but I am hearing positive things, and my cat is curled up beguilingly in front of me
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain grins
    Eliza Madrigal: cats make great confidantes
    Wol Euler nods.
    Aphrodite Macbain: indeed. They always forgive you and look beautiful
    Eliza Madrigal: remember a neighbor who actually took her cat on walks without a leash...
    Eliza Madrigal: that's something thought impossible too, giggles
    Aphrodite Macbain tries to imagine doing that with hers, and can't
    Wol Euler: when I lived in London, the neighbours had a cat that would climb onto your shoulders if you sat, and ride around on you as you walked
    Eliza Madrigal: ohhh :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol- like a parrot
    Wol Euler: yeah
    Agatha Macbeth: Like Faenik :p
    Wol Euler: exactly :) a RL shoulder pet
    Aphrodite Macbain: or Ping
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: (or was it Pong?)


    Berti time

    Eliza Madrigal: are we heading to meditation? :)
    Wol Euler: oh yes!
    oO0Oo Resident: why not?
    Wol Euler: bye listener! bye whoever stays, if there is anyone
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah Berti time :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. See you there I hope!
    oO0Oo Resident: thanks
    Agatha Macbeth waves
    oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
    oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
    oO0Oo Resident: /▌
    oO0Oo Resident: / \
    Eliza Madrigal: fun to meditate in a public cafe

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