2012.01.19 13:00 - Please your Self

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.  This was my first GoC in my new slot, and quite an interesting and wide ranging one at that.


    Qt Core: Hi Korel

    Korel Laloix: Heya
    Korel Laloix: What you been up to?
    Qt Core: wandering and crashing against pricacy or payment info virtual walls ;-)
    Wol Euler: hello korel, qt
    Qt Core: hi Wol
    Korel Laloix: Sounds like fun...
    Korel Laloix smiles
    Korel Laloix: heya
    Korel Laloix: Any big topics for today?
    Qt Core: you korel ? doing something nice ?
    Korel Laloix: Doing some shopping for the boss.
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Greetings :)
    Wol Euler: hello aggers
    Korel Laloix: Buying theater tickets for me for Friday night.
    Qt Core: Hi aga
    Korel Laloix: Going to see Waiting for Lefty.
    Wol Euler: oh, reminds me. How was the film?
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
    Qt Core: hi Zon
    Korel Laloix: lol... yummy... Very nice erotida in French.
    Agatha Macbeth: Erotida?
    Korel Laloix: OK... lets me be honest... it was porn....
    Wol Euler grins.
    Korel Laloix: Erotica
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooh
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds good
    Korel Laloix: Soft, French, mostly Lez, porn.... lol
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds even better :p
    Wol Euler: what's not to like?
    Korel Laloix: Well... watching with a woman that wore her work clothes on a date and took notes the entire time.... lol
    Wol Euler: ah
    Korel Laloix: Was a bit of an odd expereince for sure.
    Qt Core: and she's not a movie critic i suppose...
    Korel Laloix: Not that I know of... we did not talk a lot either.
    Korel Laloix: I did not think of that possibility though.
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds like more action than words :p
    Wol Euler: sounds a bit odd actually, the more you say ...
    Agatha Macbeth: More is less perhaps
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Qt Core: but in the end the only question is did you enjoyed it ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm agreed

    The SOPA debate...
    Agatha Macbeth: Is Wikipedia back up yet?
    Qt Core: yes, it already was 12 hours ago
    Wol Euler nods.
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah good
    Agatha Macbeth: Let's hope it did some good then
    Qt Core: at least 2 senators retreated their support to those laws i heard
    Wol Euler: heh, a comment on that: "The Wikipedia blackout presents a horrifying picture of a world with no information. So does the Fox News website, which is operating normally."
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes I saw that :DDD
    Wol Euler grins.
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice
    Agatha Macbeth: What exactly is this SOPA thing then?
    Wol Euler: I heard that quite a few have changed their minds, perhaps enough to cancel it (for now)
    Agatha Macbeth: Did Zon leave or did he crash?
    Wol Euler: huh, didn't notice
    Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
    Qt Core: crashed or leaved in a couple min
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, right
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe all the talk about lesbians scared him off! :P
    Korel Laloix: Sorry.. back in a bit
    Wol Euler: k
    Qt Core: first lines from the wiki for sopa: The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) is a law (bill) of the United States proposed in 2011 to fight online trafficking in copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods. Proposals include barring advertising networks and payment facilities from conducting business with allegedly infringing websites, barring search engines from linking to the sites, and requiring Internet service providers (ISP) to block access to the sites
    Agatha Macbeth: Be careful out there K
    Agatha Macbeth: Thanks QT
    Wol Euler: the scary bit is that it makes site owners responsible for everything that is done on their site. If a commenter posts a link to illegal content - not the content itself, just a link to it - then you get sued and your site gets blacklisted
    Agatha Macbeth: Seems a bit draconian
    Wol Euler: of course
    Wol Euler: what it's REALLY about is preventing us from creating and sharing, and getting us back into the 1970s model of passive consumers
    Qt Core: the best thing is that the request for banning (teoreticcaly the offending page, in practice the whole website don't have to prove anything or have a judge ruling on it
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: ban WITHOUT trial, before trial
    Agatha Macbeth: That sounds vaguely unconstitutional
    Qt Core: the isp have 5 day to solve the issue and the offending part another five to get back online.... providing he prove his innocence
    Wol Euler: right; but imagine putting Amazon offline for a week
    Agatha Macbeth: At the end of the day it's probably down to money again
    Wol Euler: by putting a link to your kid's drawing of Mickey Mouse in a book review
    Wol Euler: of course it's about money :) they want ours
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Qt Core: basically you anonimously post something copyrighted on your "enemy" website comment area and then get that website banned ;-) hollywood majors are loving the idea
    Wol Euler: and the role of government seems to be to help them take it
    Agatha Macbeth: Dear me
    Wol Euler <- slightly cynical about American politics
    Agatha Macbeth: I wonder why?
    Wol Euler: it has to with having eyes and memory
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    Qt Core: and ears too ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll have to look on Twitter and see what Crap's been saying about it :P
    Wol Euler: there's a brand new TED talk by Clay Shirky about this issue
    Agatha Macbeth: Not THE Clay Shirky?
    Wol Euler: he starts by talking about a little bakery/cake making shop near him
    Wol Euler: yes, that one :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Wol Euler: which brought in a new machine that would let you "print" images in icing sugar, to put onto cakes
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice
    Qt Core: not copyrighted ones i hope!
    Wol Euler: so you could make your own images and get them edibly printed

    (Wol ♥♥♥ 'Edibly printed'!!!)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yum
    Wol Euler: that's the point, qt
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Wol Euler: after a few weeks, they put up a sign saying htat they would not take "amateur art" any more, but would only print images from their own books
    Wol Euler: they were threatened with lawsuits under copyright protection
    Qt Core: dreaming about facebook being taken out as one of its users use a photogram from a movie as its pic ;-)
    Wol Euler: if your kid draws a picture of mickey mouse, and you print it on a cake, and let other kids look at that
    Wol Euler: then you are publishing illegal copyright-violating work
    Wol Euler: and THEY can be sued for it
    Agatha Macbeth: *How* long has Walt Disney been dead?
    Wol Euler: too long, I think.
    Agatha Macbeth: Pretty crazy
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: but that's what it is about
    Qt Core: copyright retention has been expanded in usa just for the walt disney portfolio, especially mickey mouse
    Agatha Macbeth: The whole intellectual property thing is a first class minefield
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Qt Core: (if i remember it right from a few years ago)
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ QT
    Wol Euler: and the corporations are abusing the law courts to steal "fair use" away
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes
    Agatha Macbeth: A SL friend had a big issue with fair use recently
    Agatha Macbeth: Over a photo she used in her blog
    Qt Core: should online money transfers to sl been shut down as i wear an unlicensed trek commbadge ?
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Qt Core: have to be*
    Qt Core: it may go crazy like this
    Agatha Macbeth: That's how ridiculous it is tho...
    Wol Euler: that is why it has to be stopped
    Agatha Macbeth: Well in that case I totally agree with stopping it
    Qt Core: did Cameron got a copyright on the Avatar word ?
    Wol Euler: I doubt whether you can copyright words :)
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm surprised he can spell Avatar
    Wol Euler: that is too stupid even for America
    Agatha Macbeth: wb K
    Wol Euler: else I will quickly copyright the word "several" and threaten to close every periodical, tv station, radio station and blog in the country
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Wol Euler: see, when a person suggests that, it's obviuosly wrong and silly and inappropriate
    Korel Laloix: Heya
    Wol Euler: when a corporation suggests it, people nod thoughtfully
    Wol Euler: wb korel
    Agatha Macbeth: Ha, right
    Qt Core: wb Korel
    Korel Laloix: Darn RL.
    Agatha Macbeth: And the logic of this is...?
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: that the rich get richer by squeezing the poor
    Wol Euler: old news, I know
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Wol Euler: basically it's about attention.
    Wol Euler: they want to stop us creating and sharing
    Agatha Macbeth: Makes good reading for the log tho!
    Wol Euler: and turn us back into the obedient captive consumers who bought what they saw on TV in the 70s
    Korel Laloix: As I said yesterday though, what we have now is broken, and doing nothing is not right either.
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Agatha Macbeth: Is it that they want to stop us or just charge us for the privelage?
    Qt Core: we should just go back to the movie theatres, maybe we should reopen driveins ?
    Wol Euler: doing nothing is wrongest, because doing nothing lets them make it even worse
    Agatha Macbeth: Absolutely
    Korel Laloix: There are lots of small artists that are not getting one cent for their works or even recognition.
    Agatha Macbeth: The eternal lot of the artist eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Look at van Gogh
    Wol Euler: hello cal
    Qt Core: Hi Calvino
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Calvino
    Agatha Macbeth: LTNS
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Wol .. Aggers and everyone :)
    Korel Laloix: We still have drive in movies here.
    Agatha Macbeth: We were just ranting...er...debating about SOPA
    Calvino Rabeni: Thumbs up for those !
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, do they still have them?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, in rural areas
    Agatha Macbeth: I know about drive in Macdonalds
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, good
    Calvino Rabeni: And every corner has a drive-in espresso stand too
    Korel Laloix: There are several accross the US still.
    Agatha Macbeth: A staple institution of the 50s
    Korel Laloix: http://www.driveinmovie.com/mainmenu.htm
    Agatha Macbeth: ty
    Korel Laloix: FInd you local and support... smiles
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: How could marriages start without drive-in's ?
    Calvino Rabeni: ... have started that is
    Agatha Macbeth: I doubt if we have one - we don't even have cinemas round here now
    Korel Laloix: Good point, maybe I should cancel the theater tickets and go for teh drive in.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeah
    Wol Euler grins.
    Korel Laloix: Actually it has been a while since I went to one.
    Agatha Macbeth: Have fun on the back seat
    Wol Euler: I've never been, actually
    Korel Laloix: Great fun with the rigth people.
    Agatha Macbeth: I can believe it
    Calvino Rabeni: The drive in is to the soda fountain as the lap dance area is to the strip club
    Qt Core: it seems there are a few even here in italy, never thought there would be one
    Wol Euler grins.
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Calvino Rabeni: It's a liminal zone between different social spheres
    Qt Core: (even if the one i found is some 1000 km from here...
    Wol Euler: hello eliza!
    Agatha Macbeth: Liz!! ♥
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello!
    Qt Core: hi Eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: How are we?
    Eliza Madrigal checks in with her selves....
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: some of us are just great :) ty
    Agatha Macbeth: Aren't you supposed to drop 'self' :p
    Wol Euler: :)))
    Eliza Madrigal: have to catch them first
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Agatha Macbeth: Yah right
    Calvino Rabeni: heh
    Agatha Macbeth: Come back self!!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Might be able to catch them by joining a club .. I've heard they like to hang out there
    Agatha Macbeth: A self club?
    Calvino Rabeni: Any club is a self club
    Eliza Madrigal: help self club
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Calvino Rabeni: like different kinds of nets to catch different species of fish
    Eliza Madrigal: the ones who show up easily for role call aren't the ones to worry about...
    Korel Laloix: You mean Washington then?
    Agatha Macbeth: If you paint one is it a self portrait?
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Calvino Rabeni: So for instance, do a search for "toastmasters" in your geo area... then sort by type ...
    Calvino Rabeni: look at the pics, etc,
    Calvino Rabeni: you can choose between movers and shakers, political notables, sales, librarians, storytellers, adult themed, LGBT and friends, small biz entrepreneurs, gray haired roll up the white shirt sleeves and write on the whiteboard types ..
    Calvino Rabeni: the self you want will be welcome there
    Agatha Macbeth: I must remember that
    Eliza Madrigal: great idea!
    Eliza Madrigal: there they are, just advertising to be caught
    Wol Euler: ah, you mean to propose a home for wandering selves?
    Calvino Rabeni: sure, because they get bored staying home all the time
    Calvino Rabeni: usually one or two "take over"
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, yes
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully.
    Calvino Rabeni: and have the "home court advantage"
    Agatha Macbeth: Right
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed..then the others escape to internet sites ...
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: And get sued for copyright reasons...
    Wol Euler grins.
    Eliza Madrigal: goodness yes, sigh
    Eliza Madrigal: so then they make more selves to act as decoys
    Calvino Rabeni: Exactly ,,, having been snowed in, going stir crazy, I found myself dropping into the "PaB" club
    Calvino Rabeni: where a few bon mots are always appreciated
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Agatha Macbeth: Snow use Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Softly softly falling
    Eliza Madrigal: good that you can get online
    Agatha Macbeth: Is it bad there?
    Calvino Rabeni: unusual but not bad ... adding a new layer today
    Agatha Macbeth: Haven't had any here at all yet
    Agatha Macbeth: wb QT
    Eliza Madrigal: wb Qt :)
    Wol Euler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG_cTsHIeNI
    Calvino Rabeni: It's unusual enough that we have no snow shovel
    Wol Euler: (snow song)
    Eliza Madrigal clicks
    Wol Euler: wb qt
    Qt Core: rehi
    Agatha Macbeth: Isn't Rehi where you lie on a bed?
    Agatha Macbeth: No, that's reiki
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Agatha Macbeth: Ignore me
    Wol Euler smiles and pats your hand.
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder where Boxy is?
    Eliza Madrigal bets korel loves this song,,,,?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Let's sing her the duck song
    Wol Euler: heheheheheheh
    Eliza Madrigal: I like it, ty Wol
    Wol Euler: my pleasure :) glad you do
    Eliza Madrigal: haha... duckie duet
    Korel Laloix: Sorry, no sound at work, so I did not play it.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Silent movie
    Qt Core: we aren't having any snow around there, but tree and grass still white as for a lot of iced and fallend down fog
    Calvino Rabeni: This is kind of strange to me ... all those street cams that have been installed over recent years are all on the internet ... making it possible to see the snowy state of the entire city ... http://www.seattle.gov/trafficcams/ ... brrr
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooh
    Calvino Rabeni: .. with the following disclaimer -
    Calvino Rabeni: "Please note: SDOT does not archive or retain any of the images from the traffic cameras."
    Eliza Madrigal: not too bad on marginal way
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Qt Core: but they do stream them so someone else can
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah
    Agatha Macbeth: Roads seem pretty clear anyway
    Calvino Rabeni: all these major roads, mostly a bit plowed ... side streets of course are another matter
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: well someone in the neighborhood will buy a shovel now...
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder what it's like where Aph is?
    Qt Core: i have to go, bye all
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.gvrd.com/webcams/index.html
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye QT
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT
    Eliza Madrigal waves
    Wol Euler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VejZKCpNnrs <- "snowstorm"
    Eliza Madrigal: some strange thing is happening - when I switch windows I jump up without meaning to... like some monty python skit
    Wol Euler: heh
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, I thought you were going
    Eliza Madrigal: pinching myself
    Agatha Macbeth: Competeing selves maybe?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps so :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: conflicting values
    Agatha Macbeth: As well
    Eliza Madrigal: nice
    Wol Euler: so apparently Blue Monday, the most depressing day of the year, is safely behind us now
    Eliza Madrigal: what? I missed it?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh we had it already?
    Wol Euler: count yourself lucky
    Wol Euler: allegedly
    Eliza Madrigal: who knew one could just save up all their sadness and pin it on one day
    Agatha Macbeth: Thought it was the 23rd
    Wol Euler: oh, is it?
    Wol Euler nods to Eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe I'm wrong then
    Eliza Madrigal: 23 is Chinese New Year
    Wol Euler: if that were true, we could at least be certain of being done with it all at some point
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Eliza Madrigal: where did you hear about this Wol?
    Agatha Macbeth: Dragon? 
    Wol Euler: trying to remember ... online, is the short answer, perhaps twitter
    Eliza Madrigal: is there a happiest day?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's depressing because .. ?
    Wol Euler: According to a press release by a mental health charity,[4] the formula is: \frac{[W + D-d] T^Q}{M N_a} where weather=W, debt=d, time since Christmas=T, time since failing our new year’s resolutions=Q, low motivational levels=M and the feeling of a need to take action=Na
    Wol Euler: (wikipedia)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well if there is it would have to be in August I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: oh my
    Wol Euler: monday of the last full week of january, so not yet.
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm, thought so
    Wol Euler: so Aggers was right! the 23rd
    Agatha Macbeth: Makes a change
    Eliza Madrigal: strange the things people know

    Not a lot of people know that...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Innit tho
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Monday_%28date%29
    Eliza Madrigal: could make it a party day...
    Agatha Macbeth hears a New Order song
    Eliza Madrigal: play depressing songs...
    Agatha Macbeth: Leonard Cohen?
    Wol Euler: heh
    Eliza Madrigal: he makes me happy, won't work...
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Agatha Macbeth: Plan B then
    Korel Laloix: I think Metalica's "One" is very depressing.
    Agatha Macbeth: We'll play it for Liz then
    Korel Laloix: Lagged sorry.
    Eliza Madrigal: there ya go
    Korel Laloix: There are some great depressing country songs.
    Agatha Macbeth: Personally I'd think they were too loud to depress anybody
    Korel Laloix: I turned 21 in prison doing life without parol.
    Korel Laloix: DOn't know the title of that one though.
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Calvino Rabeni: Mama tried
    Wol Euler: "hurtin' songs", we used to call them
    Calvino Rabeni: it's called something like that
    Calvino Rabeni: by the grateful dead
    Agatha Macbeth: 'I suffered for my music, now it's your turn'
    Korel Laloix: OH OK.
    Calvino Rabeni: Speaking of causes for depression ...Here's a nice study in contrast ... "your brain on Nature" compared with "your brain on computers" http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/te...e&ref=homepage
    Wol Euler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgYOGX8XOM
    Korel Laloix: My Imortal by Evenescence is pretty derpressing as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmm but beautiful Korel which makes one smile
    Agatha Macbeth: I like them
    Eliza Madrigal: ty, clicks everything
    Eliza Madrigal: re the article, there is this interesting line of thought lately that people who can provide services of solitude will be in high demand... articles in praise of introversion
    Korel Laloix: The Green Green Grass of HOme is another one.
    Wol Euler: interseting thought, eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: we're all so overloaded that solitude becomes a luxury item
    Wol Euler: in the way that Plum Village in France is (or was originally) in a cellphone "black hole", no coverage
    Agatha Macbeth: Mon dieu
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
    Korel Laloix: I have been reading about one of the Christian solitude Eastern Orthosox schools. 

    ('Orthosox' sounds interesting)

    Korel Laloix: Hesychasm.

    Agatha Macbeth: Bless you 

    Wol Euler listens.
    Korel Laloix: Interesting to read and think about.
    Wol Euler: what do they do/say/think?
    Agatha Macbeth: Actually that word sounds familiar
    Wol Euler: (what makes them interesting to you?)
    Korel Laloix: http://www.hesychasm.ru/en/library.htm
    Eliza Madrigal: clicks...
    Korel Laloix: I have given serious thoughts to becoming a nun before.
    Agatha Macbeth: Good grief
    Korel Laloix: To the extent of going to vocational weeks and weekends.
    Calvino Rabeni: "Neuroanthropology" .. seems to be among the scientific routes into a kinder and more natural humanism these days
    Calvino Rabeni: Make sure you don't sleep alone  
    Korel Laloix: Not something I am looking at now.
    Calvino Rabeni: http://neuroanthropology.net/2008/12...#comment-25029
    Korel Laloix: But still and optoin.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: ooh interesting...
    Calvino Rabeni: So perhaps that's the secret .. don't sleep alone, but spend some time in solutude during the active periods of the day
    Agatha Macbeth: Tricky
    Calvino Rabeni: then return to a sheltering group at night
    Calvino Rabeni: If it's good for babies, it's likely good for adults.... but babies get the study because adults resist being told what's good for them
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: we sort of can feel like we have to be 'on' all the time... one could say 'be happy' constantly... nice to be 'off guard' at night
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm, right
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Electric lights are a technology that's shifted consciousness in many ways... that are hard to see in the overall effect4
    Calvino Rabeni: LIke the idea we could in principle run like a machine, 24/7
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Eliza Madrigal remembers a book called Continuum Concept... sort of a radical book for its time... more dependence = real allowing for independence... maybe groups can provide adult containers... tastes of monastery
    Agatha Macbeth: Wol often does :p
    Calvino Rabeni: and the idea that there aren't cycles in time, that it's "flat"
    Wol Euler: eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Run 24/7
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Continuum .. hmm?
    Wol Euler: no, not in ages :) but I'd admit to sometimes too much
    Agatha Macbeth: Heh
    Eliza Madrigal: wow didn't realize the author died last year: http://www.continuum-concept.org/
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm envious of those cultures that have culturally-sanctioned retreats for rest and centering or whatever you like to call what happens when you spend time in a monastery / temple residential center with other people
    Eliza Madrigal: me too Cal, choices become too stark
    Calvino Rabeni: A cultural idea that these have their seasons in the typical life ... Resulting in a normalization of the practice ... everybody does it .. not just the introverts or spiritual types or "unproductives"
    Wol Euler nods.
    Agatha Macbeth: (yawn) Think I'll have me an early night...
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Agatha :)) rest well
    Wol Euler: goodnight aggers, sleep well
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now (waves)
    Eliza Madrigal: It is interesting when I hear the sort of pull toward this cloistered lifestyle from you Korel or myself...
    Wol Euler listens.
    Korel Laloix: For me....
    Korel Laloix: I grew up very alone at home.
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmm
    Korel Laloix: And as much as I suffered in it, there was some peace.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :) I understand that
    Korel Laloix: And I really dont like a lot of things that I found when I left that lonliness.
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of it as an integral part of a balanced life .. not as a dominant lifestyle "choice"
    Eliza Madrigal: there is perhaps "deep" freedom as well as broad freedom
    Calvino Rabeni: listens to Korel
    Korel Laloix: I am still very uncomfotable with owning things as well.
    Korel Laloix: Evertying I own, including my motorcycle will fit in my car.
    Korel Laloix: I don't keep things.
    Eliza Madrigal: which can be freeing or can be feeling one has to keep running
    Wol Euler: is it significant, fitting *in the car*? do you feel you might literally have to pack up and go?
    Korel Laloix: And I do run a lot.. smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
    Korel Laloix: I had to do that before.
    Korel Laloix: Long story.
    Wol Euler smiles. OK.
    Korel Laloix: My SL inventory is 296 at the moment....
    Korel Laloix: And my RL is probably about the same.
    Wol Euler: wow, how is that even possible? heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Korel Laloix: You have to turn off the library.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm at 8900 and feel like a hoarder
    Korel Laloix: I know sevearl that are over 30K.
    Wol Euler: 33782
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Korel Laloix: I grew up simply.... by force.
    Wol Euler: I know one who has 62000
    Eliza Madrigal faints
    Korel Laloix: But I love some things about that way of life.
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, perhaps it's like the email store ... some people treat it as write-only, since the space there is practically huge
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: why spend time cleaning?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Korel Laloix: I just like to be organized....
    Calvino Rabeni: it does feel good to be organized, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I was actually very sparce when young... just love the feeling of space... of walking across a room... and actually now don't keep things I don't feel I am appreciating
    Korel Laloix: Well... overly organized... or so my shrink thinks... grins
    Wol Euler: as an architect I am professionally seduced by the image of the empty room
    Calvino Rabeni: Fashionable in that field
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: What's that empty room image all about, where did it come from?
    Korel Laloix: My room is pretty sparse. Nothing on the walls. SImple furnishings that I actually need.
    Wol Euler: for a long time I used to think that I was living minimally, because I had few clothes or kitchen machines and only one bottle of shampoo
    Wol Euler: then I realized that I was over looking my CDs and books ....
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Korel Laloix: SOme trade offs are more healthy than others.
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't have a pull toward living in a contentless glass box, with only light and space around me ... it feels like a spiritual stereotype of sorts
    Wol Euler: absolutely, and no architect actually lives like that either :) good god no :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) All the complexity, concealed on the digital media
    Wol Euler: it's related to the Modernist program of removing ornamentation, Cal.
    Korel Laloix: I do like vivid colors though.
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if I'd feel better if I re-formatted all my accumulation of hard drives
    Wol Euler: reducing everything to "the magnificent play of volumes in light"
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing about living with other people is that they like stuff... so if one likes people then there is some accomodation
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Wol, modernism, but that came from .. ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I just like to change a lot... and if I had a lot of stuff I couldn't
    Calvino Rabeni: A reaction to ornateness? A feeling of degenerate and dissipative culture? hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: :) actually the idea of volumes of light is yummy
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Korel Laloix: I do like looking at that stuff, but not sleeping around it.
    Calvino Rabeni: But it's part of the same ethos that led to the idea of putting the babies in a room by themselves at night
    Eliza Madrigal: but less stuff to maintain can mean more presence
    Calvino Rabeni: (i mean modernism, not what you're saying, Eliza and Korel)
    Wol Euler: it's a cycle, the Hussites and Calvinites and the Shakers did similar stuff (in the terms of their times) too
    Calvino Rabeni: There do seem to be cycles
    Wol Euler: then people get tired of that and want decorative doodads
    Korel Laloix: There is a diffrence there though.
    Wol Euler: *calvinists
    Korel Laloix: Some ornate furnature is nice... but knicknacks and collectables drive me nuts.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps we're in a cycle of acquisitiveness toward "information", to be followed by a minimalist period of simplicity
    Korel Laloix: Dust collectors... expensive ones as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Korel Laloix: Could be.
    Calvino Rabeni: If that's true, there will be a time when people will look back on the early 21st century and think ... can you imagine the time when they used to keep all that clutter of information, as if it were important and meant something! Who can figure ?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: all that information and no one knew what to do with it
    Eliza Madrigal: speaking of which, have to close my eyes for about 20 minutes before a meeting :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a great idea :)
    Wol Euler: I should go too, nearly midnight here
    Wol Euler: this was a great discussion tonight, thank you all
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for interesting talk and warm company
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll go watch the snow
    Calvino Rabeni: softly softly falling
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: bfn :)
    Calvino Rabeni: bye everyone :)
    Wol Euler: goodnight cal, goodnight korel
    Korel Laloix: Ciao
    Korel Laloix: Need to start closing up the office soon anyway.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: late afternoon for you already?
    Korel Laloix: Just comming up on 5.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: time for home
    Wol Euler: or the theater :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Korel Laloix: But it looks like I will actually get out of here on time as the boss is getting ready to go.
    Wol Euler: great!
    Korel Laloix: That is tomorrow.
    Wol Euler: ah, ok
    Wol Euler: enjoy the evening, then
    Korel Laloix: Take care... smiles
    Wol Euler: you too!

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