2012.01.27 06:00 - Regarding Reality: Pet Pruning and Plasma

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    :) The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden.


    Pema Pera: ah, Bleu, for you it is now 7 am?
    Pema Pera: in the winter?


    Pema Pera: Arizona is one of the few sensible states
    Eliza Madrigal: (brb)
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Pema Pera: no caving in to daylight savings time
    Bleu Oleander: 75 and sunny here today
    Pema Pera: hi Maxine!
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: HI, Pema, Eliza, Bleu....lag!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Maxine :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: hi Maxine and Wester!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Wester
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wester :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi all
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wester

    Maxine Walden: so light in the Pavilion here, so dark just outside my RL window!
    Bleu Oleander: here too Maxine :)
    Pema Pera: so cozy here in the rain upon the panes :-)
    Wester Kiranov: finally a sunny day here in RL :)
    Maxine Walden: :), Bleu
    Maxine Walden: so many 'weathers'
    Eliza Madrigal: softer blue here, almost white, blending with cottony cloud cover
    Maxine Walden: lovely, eliza
    Wester Kiranov: the world has diufferent moods too, it seems
    Bleu Oleander: nice Eliza
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Bleu Oleander: different realities?
    Maxine Walden: hmm, yes

    Maxine Walden: and just thinking that less than an hour ago, here, anyway, my 'window' looked out upon the mysteries of sleep
    Eliza Madrigal: different clothing on same reality?
    Maxine Walden: hmm

    Maxine Walden: shall I share this thought of 'plasma'?
    Bleu Oleander: please do
    Eliza Madrigal: yes please :)
    Pema Pera is all ears
    Wester Kiranov: different ftell us, maxine
    Maxine Walden: Over the past couple of weeks, due to our conversations, especially around the phrase "the more I read the less I know"
    Maxine Walden: I have had the distinct image of new seedling thoughts, images, experiences dispelling the familiar assumptions in some cases
    Maxine Walden: and so it felt like this dispersion of the familiar, sort of atomizing (when things go into tiny spray bits)
    Maxine Walden: a dispersion into smaller and smaller bits, with the result of being amidst bits, a bit lost but with hope/faith that new seeds (protoplam) would develop from these tiny droplets
    Maxine Walden: The sense of plasma comes from what I understand this kind of 'atmosphere' to be, dispersed ions or droplets....the notion of the life-bringing plasma of blood actually came to mind initially, and then some
    Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi zen
    Pema Pera: hi Zen

    Maxine Walden: some notion of 'emply' space, which I understand is also a plasma of sorts, having potentially charged particles throughout.
    Maxine Walden: And finally somewhere read that plasma is actually the most common form of matter we know of...(pause)
    Zen Arado: Hi everyone
    Maxine Walden: hi, Zen.

    Maxine Walden: So, guess just wanted to put this thought out there to see if it is of interest or attracts any thoughts or attention
    Maxine Walden: (real pause :) )
    Eliza Madrigal: really interesting analogy... taking a moment with it
    Maxine Walden: hi, zen
    Pema Pera: one thing that comes to mind is that a plasma is almost impossible to confine . . . .
    Maxine Walden: hmm
    Bleu Oleander: did some googling of "plasma" and realized the more I read the less I knew :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: :))
    Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti...inement_fusion
    Bleu Oleander: I thought of the metaphor of a rainbow when you mentioned dispersion Maxine


    Bleu Oleander: holding a prism up to white light reveals a different layer of reality
    Maxine Walden: yes, wonderful association, bleu
    Maxine Walden: might need a bit of help with that description, Piet.

    Maxine Walden: re the confinement...could you say a bit more Piet?
    Pema Pera: charged particles generate magnetic and electric fields, which in turn change the movements of the particles, which then changes the fields, and the feedback it generally highly unstable; not unlike human beings trying to influence each other :-)
    Bleu Oleander: somewhat better metaphor for me, the me not knowing much about plasmas :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Maxine Walden: ah:), I think I get it, Pema!
    Bleu Oleander: so is empty space a plasma?
    Pema Pera: people making rules for people whose behavior is then changed leading to the perceived need for new rules
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: yes,...:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: maybe, bleu the notion of space being empty is the issue here...that there may be no such thiing as empty in this sense
    Maxine Walden: but we should see what Pema has to think here...
    Bleu Oleander: quantum stuff?
    Maxine Walden: hmm
    Pema Pera: not directly, no, plasmas can be described classically

    Pema Pera: may I ask, Maxine, what the mean intention is of your metaphor?
    Pema Pera: to expand on "the more I read the less I know"?
    Pema Pera: or are there other directions, motives, intentions?
    Pema Pera: or just openminded brainstorming?
    Maxine Walden: yes, exactly, to expand on that metaphor
    Pema Pera: in any direction?
    Pema Pera: for the sake of the metaphor?
    Pema Pera: just curious :-)
    Maxine Walden: brainstorming, not really wishing to sort out plamsa, but to frame the metaphor
    Eliza Madrigal: the attempt to[ward] confining by obtaining "more" actually creating dispersement?
    Maxine Walden: and to try to explore the creativity, maybe in terms of natural phenomena, of this notion of dispersion. Becuase in some ways such disperson feels depleting to the average everyday mind

    Bleu Oleander: I think I said that phrase last week and I meant that the more I investigate ideas the more ideas I find to investigate :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Maxine Walden: and yet being open to each other, allowing our minds to be 'blown' does seem very important...
    Pema Pera: so perhaps what we need is a bit more "confinement" in the possitive sense
    Eliza Madrigal: the picture in mind is of reaching out to touch a dream, which like water, disperses... yet seems natural
    Pema Pera: as in a container
    Pema Pera: allowing free flow inside and protection towards the outside?

    Pema Pera: "depleting" is a powerful notion . . . . if dispersion leads to depletion, it's a distraction; if it leads to spreading seeds it can be very creative
    Maxine Walden: maybe our thinking together is a container of sorts, a wider container than any of our single minds

    Maxine Walden: I think depleting refers to the self that feels possessive or defined by certain 'pet' or 'pat' ideas
    Maxine Walden: and so deflated with those 'pets' or 'pats' are dispersed...

    Wester Kiranov: maybe we need some balance between dispersion and concentration
    Eliza Madrigal: letting go of getting letting go
    Pema Pera: pitter patter of random information can be even more deflating than exposure to pet ideas . . . the pitter patter cannot even be corrected!
    Zen Arado: Isn't it funny how our minds seem to work in dualistic notions
    Maxine Walden: (said by Pema as he listens to the rain outside his window) :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Zen Arado: maybe that is why the Buddha taught a middle way so much


    Bleu Oleander: hi steve :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevenaia :)
    Pema Pera: hi there, Steve!
    Wester Kiranov: hi steve
    Maxine Walden: hi, Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: morning all
    Zen Arado: hi Steve

    Maxine Walden: steve we are considering the creativity of 'the more I read the less I know'...the creative dispersion vs the feeling of loss of the known or familiar ideas...
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Eliza Madrigal: it is interesting in that there is a sense of allowing a larger flow and less control
    Eliza Madrigal: which circulates everything in a larger way and also more detailed way than one could get ahold of
    Eliza Madrigal: the analogy I mean
    Maxine Walden: yes, Eliza, listening...
    Maxine Walden: billowing beyond one's edges
    Maxine Walden: or capacities perhaps?
    Zen Arado: a bigger space

    Wester Kiranov: Could there be a noncontrolling confinement?
    Eliza Madrigal: but one is part of vice versa
    Eliza Madrigal: (end thought, not formed, hah)
    Wester Kiranov: Not to control but to allow a certain part of reality not to be obscured by other parts?
    Pema Pera: organic control rather than mechanic control, perhaps?
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Zen Arado: control what?
    Bleu Oleander: reality is a big place with lots of room to expand into
    Wester Kiranov: nice thouht pema, but I think that's not the essential difference

    Maxine Walden: what's coming to mind is the natural (I think) terror of being dispersed, lost in space (maybe when one holds on to a dispersed idea, vs being open to the spacetrip without knowing the outcome
    Bleu Oleander: enjoy the ride :)
    Maxine Walden: ah, just reading Wester's posting 'certain part of reality not to be obscured by other parts'. more on that Wester?
    Wester Kiranov: I was thinking of things like ikebana, where there are a lot of rules, and because of those rules free expression can make something exquisite
    Wester Kiranov: and you don't know in advance how it's going to work out either
    Wester Kiranov: when there are too many ideas, it is hard to really let any of them flower
    Wester Kiranov: so you need to prune your thoughts
    Maxine Walden: :) lovely Ikabana images come to mind as you speak.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Bleu Oleander needs her thoughts pruned :)
    Maxine Walden: :)), me too, bleu
    Wester Kiranov: :-)
    Pema Pera: calligraphy too: you don't design new letters, you work with the existing ones in new ways
    Maxine Walden: the rules or forms in each case providing a protective container which allows focus and trust in the new?

    Wester Kiranov: well said maxine
    Bleu Oleander: my rationale for Art of Being rules :)
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wester Kiranov: without any rules you don't have freedom, you have chaos. The problem comes when you start to believe in those rules


    Maxine Walden: Impressive shaping or rather focussing of my perhaps unruly dispersion image into these more disciplined forms which then bring vivid imagery for us to consider
    Maxine Walden: (perhaps a personal meditation, my last comment; don't want to impose it on the group)
    Eliza Madrigal: Apologize to sneak out a little early...
    Maxine Walden: thanks, eliza
    Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
    Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza :)
    Pema Pera: I'll send you the log URL
    Wester Kiranov: bye eliza
    Zen Arado: Bye Eliza

    Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Maxine, everyone.... interesting conversation, and thanks Pema
    Eliza Madrigal waves

    Maxine Walden: just musing on the clarity when focussing on calligraphy and Ikebana. As if the discipline of the form offers protected space for creative elaboration

    Zen Arado: but it's only a kind of foundation isn't it?
    Zen Arado: Performers eventually outgrow the discipline
    Zen Arado: they transcend it

    Wester Kiranov: Just a thought: in ikebana there are so many rules you cannot really DO anything anymore. Instead you can allow some natual expresssion to come out
    Zen Arado: then someone comes along and makes new rules for the new form
    Maxine Walden: yes, and then what, new art forms?
    stevenaia Michinaga: jazz musicians as a way of life do that
    Pema Pera: and tai chi masters :-)
    Wester Kiranov: yes, tai chi
    Bleu Oleander: and artists
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, in both, new forms develop
    Wester Kiranov: tai chi masters try not to do anything as well
    Wester Kiranov: or rather, they don't try they just are
    Maxine Walden: not striving, just being?

    Zen Arado: truly radical people turn up every now and then and overthrow all the previous rules. They and ther followers formalise it into a tradition and declare must be done this way
    Zen Arado: until the next radical overturns it all again

    stevenaia Michinaga: once you know all the part, or rules, you are free to recombine them in new and previous impossible ways
    Wester Kiranov: just being, within a particular situation
    Zen Arado: maybe most people like a set of rules to follow
    Zen Arado: they don't like too much uncertainty
    stevenaia Michinaga: acceptance

    Wester Kiranov: i suppose so Zen, but that is not the only way to use rules
    Bleu Oleander: one can have uncertainty within a set of rules
    Pema Pera: it would be hard to make music without a system of notes, whether or not formalized
    Pema Pera: or to speak without grammar
    Pema Pera: or to breath without the rule of going in and out :-)

    Wester Kiranov: one can use rules to get your uncertainty in the right dose
    Wester Kiranov: not too much, not too little
    Zen Arado: maybe there are rules that constrain and others that enable
    Zen Arado: how do we know the difference?
    Pema Pera: practice, man, practice :-)
    Wester Kiranov: :D
    Bleu Oleander: :)

    Maxine Walden: :) the fluctuations from breaking out of old 'confining' forms until new ones are developed which last for awhile and then the creative impulse breaks out of that form, and on and on
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Luci
    Maxine Walden: hi, luci!
    Pema Pera: hi Luci!
    Lucinda Lavender: HI all:)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Luci
    Zen Arado: Hi Luci :)
    Lucinda Lavender: got here earlier than I thought:)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi lucinda

    stevenaia Michinaga: improvisation, Maxine
    Bleu Oleander: thank you Maxine
    Bleu Oleander: take care all :)
    Maxine Walden: exactly, steve. Thanks all
    Bleu Oleander: nice to see everyone
    Pema Pera: bye everybody who is leaving!
    Pema Pera: and thank you, Maxine
    Zen Arado: thanks all, have to go, byee
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice being on SLT in RL, if only for a week :)
    Maxine Walden: glad to have you here as we wrap up our conversation.
    Bleu Oleander: bye bye
    Wester Kiranov: thank you for a lovely conversation. now off to prune my own thoughts :-)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: wonderful term "prune"
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Maxine Walden: I had better go. Yes, to prune our thoughts, Wester. A lovely discussion, allowing me to do just that, prune hopefully creatively
    Maxine Walden: bye for now.


    Added: Eliza's contribution to the limits faciliating creativity angle:

    bonsai 2 Morikami.png

    Bonsai Morikami.png

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