2012.02.01 19:00 - Why do we seek a concept?


    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.


    Ewan Bonham, Paradise Tennant, Lawrence Vyceratops, Multiverse1 Resident, Alfred Kelberry, and Tess Aristocrat joined in tonight


    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    stevenaia Michinaga: how was last week? Haven't had the chance to review the sessions
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Paradise, ewan
    Ewan Bonham: Hello friends...:)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan ;)


    Paradise Tennant: we did a poem go round last wed stev :) was fun
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I had a good time away, ponder the west coast as a place to never come back from
    Paradise Tennant: smiles that nice :)
    Ewan Bonham: You were visiting, Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: relatives and son :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems the weather is mostly perfect in Northern CA, the flowers were blooming
    Paradise Tennant: smiles you are making me jealous
    stevenaia Michinaga: was reading a book on Qi Gong, I think most of it was on Qi and chinese medicine, a nice diversion
    Lawrence Vyceratops: hi
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Lawrence
    Paradise Tennant: hiya lawrence
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Multi
    Multiverse1 Resident: Hi everyone
    Paradise Tennant: hiya multi
    Ewan Bonham: Hello Multi
    Multiverse1 Resident: Hi Ewan
    Multiverse1 Resident: Para
    Multiverse1 Resident: Stevanaia, and Lawrence
    Multiverse1 Resident: what did I interupt?
    stevenaia Michinaga: was just mentioning my past week on the West Coast
    stevenaia Michinaga: and how enjoyable it was
    Multiverse1 Resident: a vaction, I had heard
    stevenaia Michinaga: beautiful weather
    stevenaia Michinaga: ocean mist
    Multiverse1 Resident: great change for you then , a breathing period
    stevenaia Michinaga: flowering trees, did Tai Chi among the redwoods in the morning
    Paradise Tennant: so like the sound of that ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: cousin has a place IN the forest
    Multiverse1 Resident: sounnds enchanting, yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: big trees everywhere
    Ewan Bonham: How nice..where are you from, Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: lovely sun rises
    stevenaia Michinaga: Eastern PA
    Ewan Bonham: What a nice change for you...:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: although I ahve spent some time in places with 30+ feet of snow every winter
    stevenaia Michinaga: not too much time there :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: and I even like snow
    stevenaia Michinaga: it's the 6 week summer that got to me
    Ewan Bonham: Yes...there and where I live we have a two week winter...:)


    stevenaia Michinaga: how was everyone elses week?
    stevenaia Michinaga: s.o.s?
    Multiverse1 Resident: warmth in New England, it was a gorgeous day here!
    Ewan Bonham: So far, going well...:)
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, the mythical hump day to the week, this wednesday occurrance.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles a huge smile hiya boxy !!!
    stevenaia Michinaga: fortunately my return flight was booked a day later than I expected so had an extra day in San Francisco
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves to Boxy
    Paradise Tennant: love san francisco :)
    Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
    Alfred Kelberry: para girl! :)
    Alfred Kelberry: wonderfully pretty as usual, para :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: Hi boxy
    Paradise Tennant: and you are usual magnificent boxyness :)
    Ewan Bonham: Smiling..
    Alfred Kelberry: interesting to see the contrast in clothing. para - summer, stev - winter. sit next to each other :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Ewan Spring
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Paradise Tennant: lucinda and I went shopping in little italy
    Ewan Bonham: Yes, it feels like spring here..
    Paradise Tennant: there were dresses made from paintings
    Alfred Kelberry: fancy girls you, para :)
    Paradise Tennant: this is a turner :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: SL Italy?
    Paradise Tennant: yes :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i like aph's initiative with theme sessions
    Alfred Kelberry: i hope it catches on
    stevenaia Michinaga: Happy?
    Ewan Bonham: Yes, nice to have the focus..
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, and before that she did a session on wu wei
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Tess...
    Tess Aristocrat: Hello all :)
    Alfred Kelberry: with announcement beforehand
    Alfred Kelberry: tess :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, that was an interesting session
    Multiverse1 Resident: Hiya Tribe Girl
    stevenaia Michinaga: I hope she has a closer afinity with happyness than she did with Wu Wei
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Tess
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: hi Tess
    Tess Aristocrat: Hi Lawrence :)


    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya tess
    Lawrence Vyceratops: why do we seek a concept?
    Ewan Bonham: Concept?
    Multiverse1 Resident: like a theme?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: wu wei is a concept that seems to have arisen a lot lately
    Lawrence Vyceratops: often, buddhist concepts are brought up
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, it's been around for centuries
    Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, so why do we seek them?
    Ewan Bonham: it gets us all to think in a general area..
    Lawrence Vyceratops: is that a good idea?
    Alfred Kelberry: yes, buddhist theme is popular at pab
    Multiverse1 Resident: to me, it is an aspect of many concepts, that are named different things that are highly similar.
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometime you hear something, and like a well tailored suit, it fits
    Ewan Bonham: And for me makes it easier to experience a bit of community...
    Tess Aristocrat: Agree Multi :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, i see that, but why do we seek them?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: ewan said it gives an experience
    Multiverse1 Resident: why do "we"?
    Tess Aristocrat: yes..
    Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, we, us
    Ewan Bonham: Yes Us feels better to me than We..
    Lawrence Vyceratops: do we seek an experience in concepts?
    Multiverse1 Resident: I don't seek the concept, it rather finds it's own way, to the "we" that is "me"
    Lawrence Vyceratops: i'm not sure what you mean, Multi
    Multiverse1 Resident: isn't that what wu wei is, the nondoing or non-action?
    Tess Aristocrat: I think its because we want to be all that we can experience as humans...to get the most of our experience/time/life while we're here, perhaps
    Lawrence Vyceratops: so, Tess, is it an entertainment motive?
    Ewan Bonham: Nod @ Tess
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Muti, i'm speaking of concepts in general, not wuwie specifically
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei
    Tess Aristocrat: no..not entertainment so much as fully using our ability to be
    Multiverse1 Resident: so the concept, becomes, "to experience"
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Tess, what does is mean, our ability to be?
    Ewan Bonham: it just helps me to focus,,,:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: The goal for wu wei is to get out of your own way, :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Ewan, what helps to focus?
    Tess Aristocrat: For each person that answer may differ just a little, Lawrence.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: is there a universal reason?
    Multiverse1 Resident: and at different times in our own lives also
    Lawrence Vyceratops: a deeper reason that the different ones that we give readily?
    Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...for me it isa point that I am able to stay with...
    Tess Aristocrat: Can you answer that?
    Multiverse1 Resident: I don't think so Lawrence
    Tess Aristocrat: because I think, for each of the questions you'ved posed eventually you can find an answer for yourself :)
    Ewan Bonham: Funny how we can find a wrld in just a small moment of focus
    Tess Aristocrat: One that is suited just for you.
    Multiverse1 Resident: good answer Tess
    Lawrence Vyceratops: we all have our own personal answers, but is there a universal answer? a deeper one? multi, you say no?
    Multiverse1 Resident: no
    Alfred Kelberry: law, to what question?
    Multiverse1 Resident: we may create one for each ourselves
    Multiverse1 Resident: I cannot create yours for instance
    Ewan Bonham: Universal? A tall order...
    Ewan Bonham: I know of only one...Love
    stevenaia Michinaga: there may be one concept but many answers
    Multiverse1 Resident: yep, for us small beings
    Alfred Kelberry: ewan, good one :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: well, i mean to say that some things are universal, like we all get hungry and need food.
    Multiverse1 Resident: material thing, Lawrences
    Lawrence Vyceratops: personally, one may like apples, another steak, another salad, but we all hunger.
    Multiverse1 Resident: love is a concept, no?
    Multiverse1 Resident: but it is all food you exemplify
    Ewan Bonham: I think of Love as an experience...a way of being..:)


    Lawrence Vyceratops: what do we seek from concepts?
    Multiverse1 Resident: Everthing that lives, eats and excretes, but not necessarily can love.
    Tess Aristocrat:

    Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy.

    That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business.

    What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy.

    Fill us then with love, and let us be bound together with love as we go our diverse ways, united in this one spirit which makes You present in the world, and which makes You witness to the ultimate reality that is love. Love has overcome.

    Love is victorious. Amen. ~Thomas Merton

    Alfred Kelberry: the bell zaps those who speak duri... *ouch* :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: oh boy I got another job, thanks Tess
    Paradise Tennant: smiles starting to really like merton :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: and bell
    Ewan Bonham: Have not read that in many years..
    Alfred Kelberry: Thomas Merton (1915 - 68), U.S. Roman Catholic monk and writer; born in France. He was ordained 1949 as Father Louis in the Trappist order. His works include The Seven Storey Mountain (1948)
    Ewan Bonham: And that sentiment can e echoed by many spiritual and religious traditions...
    Tess Aristocrat: :) yes
    Tess Aristocrat: you might say it's 'universal' even
    Multiverse1 Resident: nice, yes, very warming, isn't it Lawrence/
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go to bed, night all
    Lawrence Vyceratops: so, is it comfort and acceptance that we seek in concepts?
    Multiverse1 Resident: night Stevenaia
    Lawrence Vyceratops: night, Stevenaia
    Tess Aristocrat: I'm off to bed too, good night and sweet dreams
    Lawrence Vyceratops: night, Tess
    Multiverse1 Resident: night tess
    Paradise Tennant: night all sweet dreams :))) namaste and thank you :)
    Ewan Bonham: Night Tess and Para..
    Lawrence Vyceratops: night, Paradise
    Multiverse1 Resident: That may be correct, in my limited view Lawrence, on seeking confort and acceptance
    Multiverse1 Resident: a good direction in you r arrow for a concept I think.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: can a concept deliver such?
    Ewan Bonham: Good night all and thanks...:)
    Multiverse1 Resident: I think maybe it could
    Lawrence Vyceratops: night, Ewan
    Multiverse1 Resident: Night Ewan
    Multiverse1 Resident: You have a view on this boxy?
    Alfred Kelberry: er, sorry. been distracted.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: from whom does the acceptance come? others who adopt the concept?
    Alfred Kelberry: but i find concepts helpful in understanding reality
    Lawrence Vyceratops: yes, concepts are absolutely necessary for certain things.
    Alfred Kelberry: they lead to carefully observed and assembled models
    Multiverse1 Resident: understanding is an exemplary example
    Alfred Kelberry: on which we base our development
    Multiverse1 Resident: an arrow to point us
    Alfred Kelberry: which in turn produce new concepts
    Multiverse1 Resident: to the next place in our present
    Alfred Kelberry: multi, not an arrow, but a vision, i'd say
    Lawrence Vyceratops: but the idea or concept must represent something that is real, doesn't it?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: for it to be valid, i mean.
    Multiverse1 Resident: but I tend to break the vision into increments of progression
    Lawrence Vyceratops: and of course, the concept must not be taken for the actual.
    Multiverse1 Resident: each pixel
    Alfred Kelberry: relation in reality or possible application
    Multiverse1 Resident: then where it leads is the actual
    Alfred Kelberry: mult, yes, increments
    Multiverse1 Resident: both
    Alfred Kelberry: one step at a time :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: yep
    Alfred Kelberry: as you walk the vision can change
    Alfred Kelberry: concepts revalidated
    Multiverse1 Resident: to acheive the vision, which is rarely the reality imagiined
    Alfred Kelberry: heh, yes. i like the concept of the song "imagine" for example. but it's an utopia.
    Multiverse1 Resident: so then your new concept is formed.
    Alfred Kelberry: just like communism
    Multiverse1 Resident: yep
    Multiverse1 Resident: ditto
    Multiverse1 Resident: we all have our kingdom come, so to say
    Alfred Kelberry: it's puzzling to me how people could take on this communist idea in the first place
    Lawrence Vyceratops: so why do we seek concepts?
    Alfred Kelberry: er, i don't :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: same here
    Alfred Kelberry: i rather stumble on them
    Multiverse1 Resident: been saying that
    Multiverse1 Resident: or they form and find me
    Lawrence Vyceratops: and stumbling upon, we tend to pick up.
    Alfred Kelberry: i seek knowledge
    Lawrence Vyceratops: why do we pick them up
    Multiverse1 Resident: but we don't have to take them to the grave
    Alfred Kelberry: concepts come with it


    Alfred Kelberry: mult :)
    Alfred Kelberry: well, some do
    Lawrence Vyceratops: so, do we pick them up for entertainment?
    Multiverse1 Resident: yep, that's right
    Alfred Kelberry: one guy got burt alive for his concept
    Multiverse1 Resident: that's a good thing Lawrence to play with them and taste them as in your variety of foods example earlier
    Alfred Kelberry: ha, yes
    Alfred Kelberry: see if you like it and come for more or cook it at home :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: it's not so good when people are tortured and bombed because of a concept
    Alfred Kelberry: i guess not
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes, but it is the torturer's concept that you are not considering
    Lawrence Vyceratops: in that case, death is the result of "tasting"
    Multiverse1 Resident: ratioal, no, but it is there
    Alfred Kelberry: yet vanguard concepts attract torture
    Multiverse1 Resident: rational, no
    Multiverse1 Resident: some people are in heaven being tortured I hear
    Alfred Kelberry: take renewable energy. rational concept. but the oil industry is not happy.
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes we know we should recycle, but do not
    Lawrence Vyceratops: because in our society, money has a higher value than quality of life.
    Alfred Kelberry: we're doomed to stick with oil until we pump all of it
    Lawrence Vyceratops: money has a higher value than human life
    Multiverse1 Resident: or convenience in this day and age
    Multiverse1 Resident: change
    Multiverse1 Resident: people hate it.
    Alfred Kelberry: not hate, but afraid of it
    Multiverse1 Resident: for some, a rock, ( see diamond here) can have more value than life
    Alfred Kelberry: i like how dharma tradition embraces change in this sense
    Multiverse1 Resident: yes afraid, strong word hate, but there are thoise also boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: it's how we wired. can't change that :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: and then some hate routine
    Lawrence Vyceratops: so, knowing that conflict is born of concepts - you having your concept and another their own concept - why do we seek a concept?
    Multiverse1 Resident: can rewire our brains in some regard, we do this in our lives
    Lawrence Vyceratops: what do you mean?
    Alfred Kelberry: it's a big stretch to blame concepts for conflicts :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: yep
    Lawrence Vyceratops: is it? can we look carefully to see?
    Multiverse1 Resident: people kill, not guns
    Alfred Kelberry: yes
    Lawrence Vyceratops: one man is jewish, another is muslim. there is conflict there. is it based on their particular concepts?
    Alfred Kelberry: anyhow, folks
    Alfred Kelberry: i have to go
    Alfred Kelberry: thank you. interesting discussion.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: night, Alfred
    Multiverse1 Resident: Bye boxy
    Alfred Kelberry: be well!
    Multiverse1 Resident: I have seen 2 of those you describe enbrace before though Lawrence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: but their concepts conflict
    Multiverse1 Resident: you are speaking of keeping traditions and accepting a concept that you have been taught from birth?
    Multiverse1 Resident: brainwashing?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: not necessarily taught from birth. can happen at any time
    Multiverse1 Resident: afraid to cange?
    Multiverse1 Resident: change
    Lawrence Vyceratops: goota go baby awake :)
    Multiverse1 Resident: people are inherently wanting to retain the status quo
    Multiverse1 Resident: Ok Lawrence, take care of little Henry

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