Page last modified 08:03, 13 Feb 2012 by eliza

PlayAsBeing Wiki > Chat Logs > 2012 > 02 > 2012.02.05 01:00 - So if we put down those bits of identity, what remains?

Eliza posted this session from the auto-listener database :)

[01:00] Lawrence Vyceratops: hi Wol

[01:00] Wol Euler: good morning, lawrence

[01:02] Korel Laloix: osiyo

[01:02] Lawrence Vyceratops: hi Korel, Yahuzza

[01:02] Wol Euler: good morning korel, yaku

[01:02] Lawrence Vyceratops: k

[01:02] Wol Euler: nice dress, korel

[01:03] Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, good morning

[01:03] Wol Euler: brb, need coffee

[01:03] Korel Laloix: wdo

[01:03] Korel Laloix: wado

[01:05] Wol Euler: back

[01:05] Korel Laloix: front

[01:05] Korel Laloix: smils

[01:05] Wol Euler chuckles.

[01:07] Korel Laloix: morewater brb

[01:10] Yakuzza Lethecus: lawrence, ur typing animation seems to be stuck, ur ur writing a shortstory for us

[01:10] Yakuzza Lethecus: *or ur

[01:11] Lawrence Vyceratops: i don't know what's going on....

[01:11] Lawrence Vyceratops: is it still stuck?

[01:12] Wol Euler: try standing and sitting again

[01:12] Wol Euler: you aren't typing as such, but your hands are out

[01:12] Wol Euler: ah, better :)

[01:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

[01:12] Lawrence Vyceratops: word

[01:14] Wol Euler: that seems a better way to start sunday (or end saturday, whatever :)

[01:15] Lawrence Vyceratops: what? standing up and sitting down? ;)

[01:16] Lawrence Vyceratops: i guess, if you're Catholic

[01:17] Yakuzza Lethecus ´s avatar sits while the paratar is standing

[01:17] Wol Euler: or stuck in a pair of conflicting animations

[01:17] Lawrence Vyceratops: i can never see myself, anyway. to me, i'm always just a puff of white smoke. haha

[01:18] Wol Euler: really? then enable the Advanced menu with Ctrl-Alt-D

[01:18] Korel Laloix: inca help youwith tht.

[01:19] Lawrence Vyceratops: huh? wha?

[01:19] Wol Euler: also called "debug" or "develop" in some viewers

[01:19] Wol Euler: got that menu?

[01:19] Lawrence Vyceratops: debug settings/?

[01:20] Wol Euler: no, the *menu* named "debug" or "develop" or "advanced"

[01:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: have advanced.

[01:20] Wol Euler: there's a submenu called "avatar" in it, with a sub-submenu called "character test"

[01:20] Lawrence Vyceratops: have character test

[01:21] Wol Euler: and in that choose "test female"

[01:21] Wol Euler: which does this :)

[01:21] Wol Euler: changes your appearance to one of the default avs

[01:21] Wol Euler: I chose female because my appearance isn't borked

[01:21] Lawrence Vyceratops: i am a girl now.

[01:21] Wol Euler: and *that* should force your viewer to render you afresh

[01:21] Wol Euler: right! but you can see yourself, not a cloud of white smoke

[01:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: oh, i look like you do.

[01:22] Wol Euler: now that it works, you can return to your usual appearance by choosing things from inventory

[01:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: mmhmm

[01:22] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: eh?

[01:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: i can't undo?

[01:22] Wol Euler: putting on new/different clothes, skin, hair ...

[01:22] Wol Euler: as you did to make the appearance that you previously had

[01:22] Lawrence Vyceratops: oo.

[01:23] Wol Euler: no undo

[01:23] Wol Euler: undo would return you to clouded :)

[01:23] Lawrence Vyceratops: i'll be a girl for a while. ;)

[01:23] Wol Euler: no, just open your inventory and put things on

[01:23] Wol Euler: you#re two years old, man, I do not believe that you cannot put on a shirt :)

[01:24] Lawrence Vyceratops: don't remember what i was wearing.

[01:24] Wol Euler: ah

[01:24] Wol Euler: okay, that is trickier

[01:24] Wol Euler: as I remember you had on a black longsleeved shirt which was open to near the navel :-?

[01:25] Wol Euler: plain black pants, couldn'T see your shoes

[01:25] Lawrence Vyceratops: haha yeah, but i don't remember what it was named.

[01:25] Wol Euler: the tattoo is what you had on

[01:25] Wol Euler: ah

[01:25] Wol Euler: well, consider this an opportunity to experiment and discover! heheheh

[01:25] Wol Euler: start trying stuff out

[01:25] Wol Euler: first thing is to get a guy shape back

[01:26] Wol Euler watches and smiles

[01:26] Korel Laloix: insted of doingj tht item try debug RenderUnloadedAvatar

[01:26] Wol Euler: ah!

[01:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: omg.

[01:26] Wol Euler: where is that?

[01:27] Korel Laloix: sory, soooo driked

[01:27] Korel Laloix: lol

[01:32] Wol Euler: looks like Korel has gone to bed :)

[01:32] Lawrence Vyceratops: this is fine. i don't care haha

[01:32] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:32] Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

[01:33] Wol Euler: one tip: when you get an appearance you like, make a folder for it and copy evrything you are wearing into it

[01:33] Wol Euler: that way you can restore just by rightclicking that folder

[01:33] Lawrence Vyceratops: thank you. i'll do that from now on. ;)

[01:33] Wol Euler: you're welcome

[01:33] Lawrence Vyceratops: lesson learned. haha

[01:33] Wol Euler grins.

[01:35] Yakuzza Lethecus appraciates wol´s outfits

[01:36] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:36] Wol Euler: being able to dress interestingly for nearly free is one of hte incidental pleasures of SL

[01:37] Wol Euler: this outfit cost less than a starbucks coffee :)

[01:39] Yakuzza Lethecus: i sometimes wonder about my online and rl behavior since in rl i don´t mind going to a fastfoodrestaurant often and order like currywurst pommes majo for 3,20 while in sl giving 1000linden is a wtf high price for anything

[01:39] Wol Euler nods.

[01:39] Wol Euler: different values in a different context

[01:39] Wol Euler: people spend hundreds of euros/dollars on an iPhone and then hesitate to spend 0.99 on an app for it :)

[01:39] Wol Euler: morning zon!

[01:39] Zon Kwan: hi all

[01:40] Lawrence Vyceratops: hi Zon

[01:40] Zon Kwan: well..a saving is a saving..

[01:41] Yakuzza Lethecus: morning zon

[01:41] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i fefar i am the same with those 0,99 apps

[01:41] Yakuzza Lethecus: fear

[01:43] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:43] Wol Euler: brb, more coffee

[01:46] Wol Euler: back

[01:46] Lawrence Vyceratops: what does this mean: "A thought experiment to see what is left if we put down what we have" ?

[01:47] Wol Euler: it goes back to a buddhist statement, something about the difference between what we are and what we have

[01:47] Wol Euler: we say "I am an architect" but we could also express that as "I have trained as an architect"

[01:47] Wol Euler: I am English means I have an english passport

[01:47] Wol Euler: neither englishness nor architect is really intrinsic to what I am

[01:48] Wol Euler: so if we put down all those little bits of identity (english, architect), what remains?

[01:48] Lawrence Vyceratops: human being is left then

[01:48] Yakuzza Lethecus: good subject you brought up lawrence :)

[01:48] Wol Euler: what is "human being" though?

[01:48] Zon Kwan: they are conditioning of mind

[01:48] Wol Euler: is that too perhaps a label?

[01:48] Lawrence Vyceratops: what do you mean?

[01:48] Zon Kwan: a body ?

[01:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: the biological body, yes

[01:49] Zon Kwan: is my body me

[01:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: human being body

[01:49] Zon Kwan: how canit be me if its mine

[01:49] Lawrence Vyceratops: well, we are not mooses :)

[01:49] Wol Euler: agreed

[01:49] Wol Euler: but where is the "me" located? is it just my body?

[01:50] Wol Euler: if I lose a tooth, does that change "me"?

[01:50] Wol Euler: or just the body?

[01:50] Lawrence Vyceratops: well, t said what is left. is human being left?

[01:50] Zon Kwan: no

[01:51] Lawrence Vyceratops: ok, so go past that to just being.

[01:51] Wol Euler: "human being" is in the buddhist sense still a label that you have

[01:51] Wol Euler: because it separates you from the rest of the world, both other people and other beings

[01:51] Wol Euler: and even other things

[01:52] Lawrence Vyceratops: so, what is left?

[01:52] Wol Euler: "be the mountain" as a meditation suggestion is also a reality of buddhist thought :)

[01:52] Wol Euler: try it and find out :)

[01:52] Wol Euler: because it will be different for you

[01:52] Lawrence Vyceratops: why different?

[01:52] Wol Euler: because of who you are, it will feel different

[01:52] Wol Euler: your experiences etc are different to mine

[01:52] Wol Euler: the value you have learned to see in the world will be different to mine

[01:52] Lawrence Vyceratops: oh, because of the things being let go

[01:53] Wol Euler: right :)

[01:53] Lawrence Vyceratops: but, if those things are let go of, it should be somethng that we all can see

[01:53] Wol Euler: there's a lot that has been written about this on our website, if you are interested then follow that up

[01:53] Lawrence Vyceratops: i'd like to talk about it.

[01:54] Zon Kwan: we all can expereince yes

[01:54] Lawrence Vyceratops: and then, we are to try and do this n daily life?

[01:54] Lawrence Vyceratops: or not do, dependng on how you look at it.

[01:54] Wol Euler: ideally yes :)

[01:55] Wol Euler: heheheh

[01:55] Wol Euler: wu wei applies here too

[01:55] Wol Euler: don't do dropping, just let it happen

[01:55] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:56] Lawrence Vyceratops: but certain things we have to label; we have to drive cars and find our way to the grocery store.

[01:56] Wol Euler: of course :)

[01:56] Wol Euler: and people who don'T believe in "time" usually still have insurance and pensions :)

[01:57] Wol Euler: but you can hold those things loosely, use them as *tools*

[01:57] Wol Euler: rather than believing that they determine who you are

[01:57] Zon Kwan: but we dont need to identify ourselves with those things, just use them

[01:57] Wol Euler: exactly, zon

[01:57] Wol Euler: the idea is not to give up living :)

[01:57] Lawrence Vyceratops: isn't using identfying?

[01:57] Wol Euler: no

[01:58] Wol Euler: sorry, identify *with* it

[01:58] Wol Euler: believe that it is a necessary part of your person or your life

[01:58] Zon Kwan: if i use my bike, im not thinikng its me

[01:58] Wol Euler: you have to know the difference between a screwdriver and a banana, sure

[01:58] Wol Euler: but you should not believe that either of htem will make your life better

[01:58] Lawrence Vyceratops: so, when is identifying not good?

[01:59] Zon Kwan: when u suffer

[01:59] Wol Euler: when it becomes confused with who you are

[01:59] Wol Euler: like the people who are willing to kill Democrats because they are Republicans

[01:59] Lawrence Vyceratops: who you are with the identities or without?

[01:59] Wol Euler: or kill Muslims because they are Christians

[02:00] Zon Kwan: when you tend to be too serious

[02:02] Wol Euler: if you identify with your expensive luxurious car, for example, you will suffer terrible sadness when somebody scratches the door while parking their car

[02:03] Lawrence Vyceratops: so, you are talking about a very subtle difference between the actual and the perceived, so to speak

[02:03] Wol Euler: a large part of most religions is concerned with that difference, Lawrence :)

[02:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: the atual being the scratch is there, the perceived being the attachment to the way it was or desired, which conflicts with reality

[02:04] Wol Euler: right

[02:04] Wol Euler: like the difference between pain and suffering

[02:04] Wol Euler: buddhism doesn't say "there will be no more pain"

[02:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: of course

[02:04] Wol Euler: pain is real and present and inevitable

[02:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: this is obvious

[02:04] Wol Euler: what buddhism does say is that you can end suffering, because that is up to you

[02:04] Wol Euler: suffering is an evaluation that you put on pain

[02:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: right

[02:05] Wol Euler: that is the difference between actual and perceived

[02:05] Wol Euler nods.

[02:06] Lawrence Vyceratops: amazing this is not widely understood

[02:06] Wol Euler: it's too simple for many people :)

[02:06] Wol Euler: people like to have hard-to-follow paths :)

[02:06] Wol Euler: like crazy diets

[02:06] Wol Euler: like only wearing white clothes

[02:07] Lawrence Vyceratops: well, it is dressed up in mysticism; who can blame them for havng the wrong impression?

[02:07] Wol Euler: like giving up all your wealth to a guru

[02:07] Wol Euler smiles.

[02:07] Wol Euler: it amuses me no end that the people who object to mysticism in tao or buddhism

[02:07] Wol Euler: have no difficulty with a cookie being the body of christ :)

[02:08] Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s more a habit then an actual understanding of the religious traditions

[02:08] Wol Euler: on a related note, let me recommend a recent TED talk by Alain de Botton on "atheism 2.0"

[02:09] Wol Euler: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/ala...heism_2_0.html

[02:10] Wol Euler: adopting the best bits of religion (great art, music, architecture, social values, community spirit ...)

[02:12] Lawrence Vyceratops: wouldn't that be picking something up?

[02:13] Wol Euler smiles.

[02:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: thx lawrence for bringing up one of the fundamental pab subjects, and everyone for sharing their contributions

[02:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: bye

[02:18] Zon Kwan: bye yaku

[02:18] Wol Euler: bye yaku

[02:18] Wol Euler: that was a fast exit :)

[02:19] Wol Euler: actually I too will have to leave now, I'm working htis afternoon and have some things to do before then

[02:19] Wol Euler: thanks everyone, this was a good discussion

[02:19] Wol Euler: enjoy your sundays

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