2012.02.13 13:00 - Straw dogs; or We're not really lacking anything

    Table of contents
    No headers

    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

     

    Korel Laloix: I don't guess anyone loves me today... frowns
    Korel Laloix smiles
    Korel Laloix: I guess I did not get the memo.
    Wol Euler: hello korel
    Korel Laloix: Heya.
    Korel Laloix: Thought I was alone today.
    Korel Laloix: Good to see you.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: likewise
    Wol Euler: if you'd rather be alone we can just sit quietly
    Korel Laloix: I am not particular today...
    Korel Laloix: Anything on your mind?
    Wol Euler: hmmm, a tricky question
    Korel Laloix: I know.
    Korel Laloix smiles
    Wol Euler: I've been feeling out of sorts today
    Korel Laloix: Sick, sad, confused, in love?
    Wol Euler: like I was living slightly slower than the world around me
    Wol Euler: feeling that things were happening just a little faster than I could deal with them
    Korel Laloix: I know wha tyou meen.
    Korel Laloix: Can be hard to keep up sometimes.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: perhaps it's biorhythms
    Wol Euler: maybe just tired out


    --BELL--


    Korel Laloix: Or just a phase when your heart is focused on something else
    Wol Euler: that might be it actually
    Wol Euler: I'm certainly much distracted with other things
    Wol Euler: hello zen
    Korel Laloix: I get that way... recently when I was just starting up with Ru... my heart and mind and hormones where on her not on work or school.
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol, Korel
    Korel Laloix: Have it under control now though.
    Korel Laloix: osiyo
    Korel Laloix: Well.. mostly.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: "under control" is always a relative expression
    Korel Laloix: And often a fib as well... smiles
    Zen Arado: maybe no such thing
    Zen Arado: as control
    Wol Euler nods.
    Korel Laloix: Well.. relative control as you said.
    Korel Laloix: I do get overwhelmed with emotional things realy.
    Korel Laloix: Those distract me more than practical things by a big part.
    Zen Arado: guess emotions die away as you get older
    Zen Arado: can take longer perspective
    Wol Euler: less strong perhaps, or we are less attached to them
    Zen Arado: not die away but being overwhelmed by them
    Zen Arado: dies away
    Korel Laloix: So many distractions in life though...
    Korel Laloix: One of hte things that I like about it... sometimes.
    Zen Arado: my life is ALL distractions
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zen Arado: wonder what the main thing is?
    Zon Kwan: hello
    Wol Euler: I find it hard to tell what is distraction and what is ... well, what is the opposite of that?
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Zen Arado: Hi Zon
    Wol Euler: eliza! hello
    Zon Kwan: elizaaa
    Korel Laloix: I am big on goals.
    Eliza Madrigal: Helloooooo
    Wol Euler: "main thing" perhaps ... opposite of "distraction"
    Korel Laloix: SO the things that do't get me to those goals, are distractions I gess.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh awesome... goals is just what I need to hear about
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza :)
    Wol Euler: but all of my distractions are main things, in their own time and space
    Korel Laloix: lol
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Korel Laloix: But I am overly type A and live around goals.
    Zon Kwan: integrated ?
    Zen Arado: drifting aimlessly
    Zon Kwan: liek a cloud
    Zon Kwan: in the sky
    Eliza Madrigal: wandering wandering...
    Zen Arado: used to have goals
    Korel Laloix: The first thing I do in the moring besides the neccesary stuff is look at my callender and plan the day.
    Zon Kwan: enjoying the ride
    Zen Arado: when I acheived them....so what?
    Zon Kwan: then just go on
    Zon Kwan: wandering
    Eliza Madrigal: I make plans by week not day, usually
    Eliza Madrigal: or by 3, 5 , and 10 years
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Wol Euler nods.
    Zon Kwan: plans are nice
    Wol Euler: is there a difference between a plan and a goal?
    Korel Laloix: I have long term goals as well.
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I think so
    Korel Laloix: A plan is how you get to yoru goal I think.
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Eliza Madrigal: my plans are often straw dogs
    Wol Euler: but if you have no goal, what is your ... hehehehehe
    Korel Laloix: straw dogs?
    Eliza Madrigal: meaning they are more of an outline for me, a dream
    Zon Kwan: exactly
    Zon Kwan: fun of creation
    Wol Euler: so a goal is for you more precise than a plan?
    Eliza Madrigal: a goal is something I used to have and can't find these days maybe
    Korel Laloix: The goal is the end vision.
    Korel Laloix: The plan is how to get to that vision.
    Zon Kwan: the fun is to play the game,,not to win or loose
    Wol Euler: that's how I see it too, korel. The goal is to be happy, the plan is to cook my own breakfast this week
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: (silly example)


    --BELL--


    Korel Laloix: No, breakfast is very important... smiles
    Korel Laloix: Especially if it involved coffee and or chocolate.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: what began this discussion?
    Korel Laloix: So any idea what is taking yoru focus?
    Wol Euler: eh, I was feeling sorry for myself
    Eliza Madrigal: :) with regard to not meeting goals?
    Zon Kwan: pats Wols shoulder
    Wol Euler: generally, more about being tired out and feeling out-of-step with the world
    Korel Laloix: Understandable Wol... we all have day s like that.. and months and years.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I relate a little
    Zon Kwan: i thot it was normal..
    Eliza Madrigal: I keep using the term "lost string"
    Korel Laloix: Well.. sometiems being out of step with this world is a good thing.
    Wol Euler: oh absolutely, I am pleased and PROUD to be out of step with certain political trends ...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: it's just a feeling though
    Zen Arado: isn't it?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it can signal a shift sometimes
    Zen Arado: if we didn't think taht we would be in step
    Eliza Madrigal: can be about finding a new rhythm
    Zen Arado: stories we tell ourselves
    Zen Arado: interpretations
    Zen Arado: add ons
    Zen Arado: elaborations
    Eliza Madrigal: I am thinking of fasting SL for a week or so
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: that's why I've been online most of the day, haha
    Wol Euler: hello sam!
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Samúð :)
    oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
    oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
    oO0Oo Resident: /▌
    oO0Oo Resident: / \
    Wol Euler: that's a drastic move, eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I know
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: but I can appreciate the feeling
    Zen Arado: \hi \sam :)
    Zen Arado: SL cold turkey
    Eliza Madrigal: just for a window
    Wol Euler: I really can't remember the last time I was away from SL for an entire week.
    Wol Euler: not even during the retreats.
    Wol Euler: oh, yes, this christmas, when I was up north
    Wol Euler: heheh, not so long ago actually
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I rarely come online during retreats, but then this year may not have one
    Wol Euler: :(
    Wol Euler: didn't we all log in one evening from the dinner table? weren't you wiht us?
    Eliza Madrigal: which time? yes... in WH?
    Wol Euler: in WH
    Eliza Madrigal: but I don't regularly check like some... only for the group events when there...
    Eliza Madrigal: in SF not at all
    Eliza Madrigal: I remember the hot office last trip, and you and Eos giggling guiltily wanting to type
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: anyway, I do think resetting is helpful


    --BELL--


    Zen Arado: reformat?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: oh, yes, that's right, it must have been the time before
    Zen Arado: I used to paint in afternoons
    Zen Arado: now come into SL
    Zen Arado: bad habit
    Zon Kwan: bad ?
    Eliza Madrigal: SL can be like painting
    Wol Euler: it displaced blogging and blogreading for me
    Korel Laloix: Never cared to read blogs.
    Zen Arado: too much chatting
    Korel Laloix: Never found any intersting enouhg to engage my thoughts.
    Wol Euler: I guess I'm not that picky :)
    Wol Euler <- easily entertained.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I like SL... so it isn't about that
    Korel Laloix grins
    Korel Laloix: Yes, SL if very good.
    Zon Kwan: i love sl
    Zen Arado: I feel guilty...could employ time more usefully
    Zen Arado: but when time comes I will
    Korel Laloix: But you learn so much from here.
    Zen Arado: like Eliza
    Zon Kwan: never feel guilty..its a sin
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Korel Laloix: Or you can learn.
    Zon Kwan: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Zon
    Wol Euler: definitely, korel
    Zen Arado: bye Zon
    Zen Arado: just an expression
    oO0Oo Resident: Bye Zon
    Wol Euler: bye zon
    Zen Arado: not guilt really
    Eliza Madrigal: it really can be a wonderland of sorts
    Korel Laloix: And it has been a good place for me in terms of my religious perspective.... that part I particularly appreciate.
    Zen Arado: like picking lesser of two options
    Eliza Madrigal: has it Korel? Here, or in other places too?
    Korel Laloix: Mostly other places.
    Eliza Madrigal: glad to know we're no help, hehehe
    Korel Laloix: I would not have become a CHristian without Second LIfe.
    Korel Laloix: lol
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohh, didn't realize
    Korel Laloix: Bu this place is great for hearing different perspectives.
    Wol Euler: they say it doesn't matter where you find it, as long as you do find it
    Zen Arado: evangelical SL
    Korel Laloix: Or it found me... smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: (for various values of "it" :)
    Zen Arado: surprised
    Korel Laloix: Actually... SL opened up my mind to other ways of thinking, like we were talkinga bout.
    Wol Euler: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: each person a universe
    Korel Laloix: But this was not my location of conversion... not sure I have the word right.
    Zen Arado: maybe we have to go through these stages
    Eliza Madrigal: I used the phrase "happy accident" yesterday, then today came across this in an older session: Pema Pera: but it seems that you need a kind of "accident" to fall into virtual worlds -- in my case it was the fact that I happened to be invited to give a talk; I don't think I would have made the plunge of the initial investment otherwise -- there is quite a high barrier, and untill you scale it, you don't know what's on the other side . . . . catch 22
    Zen Arado: yes..
    Wol Euler: absolutely
    Zen Arado: but also come in and don't stay
    Zen Arado: some
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, the vast majority actually
    Wol Euler: well over 90% try it for less than an hour before logging off forever
    Zen Arado: I was a Christian for 20 years nearly
    Eliza Madrigal: it takes at least several hours
    Wol Euler: that is why I became a mentor, I wanted to improve that, to give people a better first hour experience
    Korel Laloix: I have mentioned a few times, I joined to do a paper on SL cybersex.... so you can just imagein my first impression... lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Zen Arado: didn't know that Wol
    Wol Euler: "looks around -- so where is it?"
    Korel Laloix: I like to help out new folks as well.
    Korel Laloix: OH, my paper?
    Wol Euler: no the cybersex :)=
    Wol Euler: but if the paper is online somewhere ... :)
    Wol Euler: I was imagining you arriving on one of the Help Islands ..
    Zen Arado: wanting to know about cybersex...
    Wol Euler: many did, zen :) and probably many ohters who didn't have the courage to ask ;)
    Korel Laloix: Actually, it was far more akward than that.... lol
    Korel Laloix: There are so many perve sims... you have choices.


    --BELL--


    Korel Laloix: I don't have the paper any more but I do have the basic reserach notecard if you like.
    Korel Laloix: brb
    oO0Oo Resident: A lot of information is passed.. flows to and from us.. between us.
    oO0Oo Resident: like a river
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zen Arado: information yes
    Zen Arado: we inform
    Wol Euler: not just information either :)
    Zen Arado: informally
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: as this is the information age.. so called, and information is increasing exponentially.. there is no end of information to take in, or put out.
    Wol Euler: is it, though, or are we merely drowning in data?
    Zen Arado: do we need it though?
    Zen Arado: or how much do we need?
    oO0Oo Resident: Wol, what is passed besides information?
    Wol Euler: feelings, hopes, desires
    Wol Euler: hints
    oO0Oo Resident: are those not a kind of information too?
    Wol Euler: mmmm, okay yes, I suppose that is true
    Wol Euler ponders
    Zen Arado: in a wa we don't need so much info any more
    Zen Arado: memorise it I mean
    Zen Arado: it is all easily found
    Zen Arado: online
    oO0Oo Resident: Even though everything is unique in a context.. patterns, and our ability to align with or propagate patterns, often means that.. with the amount of information... flowing... We are working often , more with the patterns than the situations themselves.
    Zen Arado: 'knowledgeable' doesn'y mean much any more
    Zen Arado: yes sam
    Wol Euler nods to Sam
    Wol Euler: which is perhaps one of the things that got us into this awful mess
    Wol Euler: economically socially and ecologically
    Zen Arado: but you have to know a certain amount just to know what to look up
    Eliza Madrigal: this is why I'm interested in the 'in praise of introversion' angles and in slowing... because though there is so much accessible, it is very difficult to give the space and breath required to present/share in a satisfying way
    Eliza Madrigal: we're not really lacking anything
    Zen Arado: you should do a silent retreat Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: was thinking of that actually
    Wol Euler nods.
    oO0Oo Resident: "present/share in a satisfying way"
    Eliza Madrigal: have wanted to do a solitary retreat for a few years... almost went to WH early
    Zen Arado: allow your mind to settle
    Wol Euler: what a nice idea
    Wol Euler: can I come too?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) not exactly a solitary retreat, haha


    --BELL--


    Eliza Madrigal: but sure... all in individual tents and houses :)
    Zen Arado: I can easily do solitary retreat
    Eliza Madrigal would have liked to stay in the little blue house Tarmel stayed in
    Zen Arado: ust don't switch computer or phone on
    Wol Euler: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Zen
    oO0Oo Resident: Challenge for you Zen, may be to have someone living with you.
    Zen Arado: I have done weekends like that
    Zen Arado: yes sam :)
    Zen Arado: have done that too
    Zen Arado: but solitary is difficult
    Zen Arado: ust meditatiog on your own
    Zen Arado: lot of discipline needed
    Eliza Madrigal: depends on how you approach I think
    Wol Euler: I doubt that I'd have the discipline for it
    Zen Arado: a family person would find it more difficult than me I think
    Wol Euler: I'd lie on the bed, or sit in a chair outside, and tell myself that I was "living in the moment"
    Wol Euler: when in fact I'd just be goofing off
    Eliza Madrigal: and that would be fine Wol... actually... I think...
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: "doing nothing" and wandering
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Eliza Madrigal: not easy actually
    Zen Arado: just sit quietly
    Eliza Madrigal: I try to do that exercise Stim gave a few times a year and find that difficult sometimes... only a few hrs
    Zen Arado: but no TV , books etc
    Eliza Madrigal: right
    Wol Euler: what was that, eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: commune
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... it is to write out 'the state of your life/self' etc... for a little while...
    Eliza Madrigal: spend some time and just matter of factly write things...
    Eliza Madrigal: then stop
    Wol Euler turns pale.
    Eliza Madrigal: hang around doing nothing for several hours
    Eliza Madrigal: sitting, getting up to walk if needed but basically being
    Eliza Madrigal: and after several hours, write again
    Eliza Madrigal: simple
    Wol Euler: ah
    Zen Arado: there was an article on Tricycle about a man sitting doing nothing for 3 weeks
    Zen Arado: absolutely nothing
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: hardest retreat he ever did
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: the exercise I described is very surprising
    Zen Arado: funny how we want something to 'do'
    Zen Arado: something to achieve
    Eliza Madrigal: we're hooked up to machinery generally :)
    Zen Arado: some result
    Zen Arado: some revelation, ealisation
    Eliza Madrigal: well there is something to be said for decisiveness perhaps
    Zen Arado: in worldly life yes
    Eliza Madrigal: thinking about that a lot lately, but maybe it doesn't need to be attached to result
    Zen Arado: confronting a task
    Eliza Madrigal: (are we helping Wol?) hah
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Zen Arado: that's what we do all the time
    Wol Euler: in a way, yes
    Wol Euler: it's giving me lots to think about
    Eliza Madrigal: oh no :)
    Zen Arado: conditioned by work perspective and productivity
    Wol Euler: different things, pulling my thoughts out of their rut
    Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
    Zen Arado: when I first started painting it was like a production line
    Zen Arado: had to produce at leat one painting per week


    --BELL--


    Zen Arado: took me years to learn how to do nothing :)
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Zen Arado: have to do my 9 days thing
    Zen Arado: 99
    Zen Arado: no idea what to say
    Wol Euler sighs.
    oO0Oo Resident: What is the outline of your daily commitment in 99 days Zen?
    Zen Arado: sighs too
    Zen Arado: no idea Sam
    Zen Arado: I always questions like that
    Zen Arado: fail
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you need a cute little straw dog
    Eliza Madrigal: something friendly
    Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zen Arado: :)
    Wol Euler: I think I have a title for this session :)
    Zen Arado: I'm very unsystematic
    oO0Oo Resident: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Classes_and_Sessions/The_99_Days_project
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I appreciate "rest" as a focus, has been a gift and pleasure
    Eliza Madrigal: last time I sort of got caught up in different things, which was fine too
    Zen Arado: Tibetan stuff is better
    Zen Arado: can talk about techniques
    Zen Arado: can't say much about 'just sitting'
    Eliza Madrigal wonders if Wol saw Pema's "I miss Wol" post a few days ago :)
    Zen Arado: 'I just sat'
    Wol Euler: no, I didn't :(
    Eliza Madrigal: sure you can, Zen
    Wol Euler: damn damn damn
    Eliza Madrigal: not meant to make you do that =P~
    Wol Euler: eh, I do it to myself :) you just triggered me
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to be missed
    Zen Arado: I'll have to start prsotrations
    Eliza Madrigal: http://bit.ly/Aw5vsH
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm always inspired by Wester's reports, often very simple
    oO0Oo Resident: Information.. may use us as a vehicle.. a container.. for perpetuation.. Just as domestic plants and animals have done well.. using humans in ways that they flourish. I sometimes think a desire for a container or framework, is to find some relief from the river of information, that is trying to have its way with us, almost all the time.
    Zen Arado: yes
    oO0Oo Resident: wester is very precise in a way.
    Wol Euler: thank you, eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: nods
    Zen Arado: we fall in love with the framework though
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting thought
    Zen Arado: or forget it is there
    Eliza Madrigal: a process
    Zen Arado: forget to take it down
    Eliza Madrigal: it isn't a problem to be dissatisfied with it if we can allow it to open further
    oO0Oo Resident: Do we?
    Eliza Madrigal: not everything has to be dismantled
    Zen Arado: it can hem us in then
    Zen Arado: restrict rather than hekp
    Zen Arado: remember hat in philosophy dissertation I wrote
    Zen Arado: like foundations
    Eliza Madrigal: like Bleu giving us very strict limitations for happiness , heheh
    Zen Arado: don't we all have frameworks about life?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Zen Arado: our version of reality according to us?
    Eliza Madrigal: hoping we will pinpoint it I suppose


    --BELL--


    Zen Arado: http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/ouco....php?id=397125§ion=3.6
    Eliza Madrigal: isn't it okay to have frameworks and stories though... only contriving to keep them in tact which seems an issue...?
    Eliza Madrigal: eek, what is this Zen?
    oO0Oo Resident: I think the preponderance are very informal.. and not well understood by the individuals themselves.
    Zen Arado: Strawson on frameworks
    Wol Euler: "Hence, for Strawson, being a person is some kind of emergent social property; we are persons because we have, and are the subject of, certain reactive attitudes." This echoes for me the way that avatars develop into personalities here through interaction.
    Zen Arado: yes...attachment again
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Eliza Madrigal: bunches of buttons?
    Wol Euler: rather like stones in a washing machine :) polishing each other through contact
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/ouco....php?id=397125§ion=3.4
    Zen Arado: original aticle
    Zen Arado: just concepts
    Wol Euler nods.
    Zen Arado: I can't be bothered with that stuff any more
    oO0Oo Resident: yes.. passed again and again.. endlessly
    Zen Arado: fascination with thought
    Zen Arado: have to give it up
    Wol Euler: :)
    Zen Arado: better go anyway
    Eliza Madrigal: :) K Zen
    Wol Euler: goodnight zen, take care
    Zen Arado: enjoyed conversation :)
    oO0Oo Resident: Thanks Zen.. everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks yes
    Wol Euler: bye sam
    Wol Euler: thank you all veyr much
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sam, thanks
    Wol Euler: this was a great conversation

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core