2012.02.26 01:00 - She had everything she wanted, but it all burned down anyway

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session, another lovely long discussion with Raffila.


    Moon Fargis: hi raffila
    Raffila Millgrove: hi moon. i haven't met you before. nice to see you.
    Moon Fargis: yes looooong time not been here
    Raffila Millgrove: today is the 4th anniversary of the group celebration at noon.
    Moon Fargis: cool
    Moon Fargis: hi wol
    Raffila Millgrove: hello Wol
    Wol Euler: hello raffi, moon
    Wol Euler: back in a sec, need some breakfast
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Moon Fargis: *slurps his tea*
    Wol Euler: so, hello and good morning
    Raffila Millgrove smiles.
    Raffila Millgrove: sudden lot of flowers today!
    Wol Euler: a frequent side-effect of Moon's visits
    Moon Fargis looks in the air and know nothing
    Raffila Millgrove: really?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Moon Fargis: yes those follow me must be a curse :)
    Raffila Millgrove: wow
    Moon Fargis: how have you been here on pab ?
    Wol Euler: we struggle on, much the same
    Wol Euler: there haven't been any new guardians joining in a while, funny how that comes and goes in waves
    Moon Fargis: ahyes
    Wol Euler: there's been a lot of discussion of the RL retreats, whether to have another and what form they might take
    Raffila Millgrove: i think you have to be group member for quite a while to be a guardian? true?
    Wol Euler: you certainly have to be present and involved to get an invitation
    Wol Euler: but there is no time requirement in that sense
    Wol Euler: people who obviously fit get invited quite quickly
    Raffila Millgrove: oh. well maybe the newer people didn't really stay long enough? I dunno.
    Wol Euler: I think it's normal, for whatever strange reason there may be :)
    Wol Euler: there have been such phases before
    Raffila Millgrove: not easy really to be a new person here as everyone else seems to know each other for a long time.
    Moon Fargis: well good pab is stil playing :)
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: so far, i have not met anyone newer, like me.
    Wol Euler: that is true, raffi, and it's one of the strongest reasons that we could not get enough people to attend the next retreat
    Moon Fargis: oh
    Wol Euler: fear that they would be the new kid, out of place and secretly unwelcome :(
    Raffila Millgrove: well.. everyone is very nice and welcoming.. and i dont' think there is any secret unwelcome. but one does feel out of place of course.
    Wol Euler: (to be honest, I felt that myself before my first retreat :)
    Moon Fargis: im sad i never could atend to shose retreats but my RL doesnt allow me that atm
    Raffila Millgrove: you put yourself in the destination guide--it's huge boost to traffic and just a nightmare.
    Moon Fargis: heh
    Moon Fargis: yes or you get put there
    Moon Fargis: morning qt
    Wol Euler: morning, qt
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Qt Core: Moo!
    Qt Core: n
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Moon Fargis: :)


    Raffila is unhappy; Moon tries to help.

    Raffila Millgrove: a few hours ago i realize that my entire folder of medical gear is gone. It was five years, mostly unreplaceable. i am wiped out as a dr now. i am sort of hysterial and sitting here trying to act calm.
    Qt Core: :-) sorry hands not yet awake
    Wol Euler: oh wow, sorry to hear that Raffi.
    Moon Fargis: gone?
    Moon Fargis: like stolen? lost ?
    Wol Euler: quick, file a ticket with Support, perhaps they can check the database and get it back
    Raffila Millgrove: yes. and i am experienced to know how to find "lost" or get inv fully loaded. i have mentor too from longtime--to help. none of standard remedies fixed it.
    Wol Euler: just checking :)
    Wol Euler: well, that is a blow.
    Raffila Millgrove: i will try the ticket.. when i am sure i have exhuasted all .. but.. they say. they don't return your inv.
    Raffila Millgrove: but this is so huge. i am hopiing maybe they have pity.


    Wol Euler: depends why it got lost. If you accidentally deleted it, you may be out of luck
    Wol Euler: if it's a database error, they'll probably fix it
    Raffila Millgrove: i fear i might have done. tho i am so careful to always check trash before emptying.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: i've never in all this time thrown anything away by accident.
    Moon Fargis: i found out, that dissapearing and refetchin inventorys are caused by having too much objects unsorted in the main folders
    Raffila Millgrove: and a big system type file like that. i could hardly miss it when checking the trash.
    Raffila Millgrove: mine is pretty well sorted/organized. i don't let it get too wonky.
    Moon Fargis: thats good :)
    Raffila Millgrove: anyway. i quit on this. i will be hysterical quietly in the background.
    Moon Fargis: mine is pure chaos where a bomb exploded
    Wol Euler smiles and gives your hand a squeeze.
    Moon Fargis: well realize that everything may face its end and is not permenent, a flower,the rain,wind,life, the inventory. Thats how life is. TRy notto attach too much to your medical equipment, when its gone its gone and you shall get new ones, maybe its time for a change . Every end brings up a new beginning tough
    Raffila Millgrove: that was my identity here. Dr. I had to take down my center recently in a sad situation. and.. i was thinking how to restart. i fear this is universe telling me my dr days are over.
    Wol Euler: hmmm
    Moon Fargis: hmm maybe not over but in change
    Raffila Millgrove: i know what it would take to replace.. many items aren't here anymore to even replace. and I cannot spend the real money. it was probably most extensive medical colledtion in SL.
    Qt Core: just imagining a full MRI equipmente coming out from tha sl magic pouch...
    Raffila Millgrove: nearly 40 yrs ago my friend's house burnt down and even now i sometimes say something and she gives me this look and just says, "Fire". so at least it was all virtual.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Moon Fargis: so youre a doctor, its now time for you to proove that you can be good evenwithout all the fancy equipment and using new ones. Life is change. and yes there are bigger issues than lost inventory. mostly becasue it will come back when you dont expect it
    Wol Euler: interesting that the loss of virtual goods is not a virtual loss, we feel it as strongly as when a RL object goes astray
    Raffila Millgrove: she married a Maytag.. she had everything she wanted. but it all burnt down anyway.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Moon Fargis: you sure she got all she wanted then ?
    Moon Fargis: when she is still clining about it
    Raffila Millgrove: no. i mean it affects you. even many years later. to have your house burn down.
    Raffila Millgrove: at least this is virtual. i didn't Lose anything.
    Wol Euler: of course
    Moon Fargis: sure
    Moon Fargis: its intresting how human mind works out, as we dont own objects, the objects owns us and out of that suffering arises
    Moon Fargis: we attach our mind to objects of worth and make it a part of our "body". we forget nothing is permanent and will be gone and so cannot be really "owned".
    Moon Fargis: even one who canafford everything in this life, is still poor along everything owns that person and not the other side around
    Raffila Millgrove: Moon, i am not going to put up argument in that. only to say that for some.. a "thing" can hold memories of someone you loved, of a time of great happiness.. and when the object goes.. the line--the connection to the loved one or the happiness.. the reminder.. it's gone.
    Wol Euler: agreed


    Qt Core: often the value of things have nothing to do with their price or even usefulness
    Raffila Millgrove: when no one is left to share your memory of person... a few objects.. a photo.. a journal.. can be of great value to one.. it's not about "ownership". it's about symbols/memory. for those precious things.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Moon Fargis: ohyes mind needs a symbol thats true, butthen at the end we attach ourself again to those symbols again. so no matter what we attach ourself to everything. I dont want to say now that this is bad or you should be shame or something. ITs an atrual process , but what do you think can you remind those person also without those symbols ?
    Wol Euler: well, there are so many kinds of attachments.
    Moon Fargis: eh my english is baaad today
    Wol Euler: one can become attached to the idea of being helpful, for example
    Wol Euler: not that one should stop helping, but perhaps that one should also know when to give it a rest
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Qt Core: you obviously have the memories, but the obkecst sitting around just awoke those memories, you don't go around everiday reminding everything
    Qt Core: object... how i typed that!
    Moon Fargis: sure, but that's what i wanted to refer on. Our mind sure works with triggers, but only becasue we are not mindfull
    Moon Fargis: sure i am not mndful either
    Moon Fargis: that needs manny years of prectise
    Moon Fargis: maybe even a half life
    Raffila Millgrove: when i am born into the life as a monk... i will take up this detachment. Til then i am not detaching myself form those I have loved... or letting go of a few things that help me remember.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Moon Fargis: *smiles* never wanted you todo that
    Qt Core: :)
    Moon Fargis snezzes
    Qt Core: a rl objects is just triggering a memory to me... my cell alarm says i have to be elsewhere in 5 min ;-)
    Wol Euler: hay fever, moon?
    Wol Euler: hehehehehe
    Moon Fargis: :)
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
    Moon Fargis: bye qt
    Raffila Millgrove: bye Qt
    Qt Core: bye all amd best wishes for your inventory Raf
    Raffila Millgrove: hope to see you at celebration at noon.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Moon Fargis: ah
    Moon Fargis: a friend calls me too
    Wol Euler: bye moon, take care
    Wol Euler: thanks for the brief garden
    Moon Fargis: was goot so be here again :)
    Raffila Millgrove: nice to meet you Moon.
    Raffila Millgrove feels a little bad that she made a "monk" comment before she notice the lovely monk avi on Moon.
    Wol Euler: awwww :)


    Raffila Millgrove: it's very difficult to be a "saint" isn't it Wol?
    Wol Euler: difficult and strange
    Raffila Millgrove: when Mother Teresa died, i was astonished to hear.. how she lost her faith and carried on without it.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: and of ocourse she had to hug that secret close.. it must have been so painful.. to carry on.. to mouth the words. to feel such emptiness/darkness inside.
    Wol Euler: in a way, knowing that she did what was right rather than what was saintly, makes her more impressive to me
    Raffila Millgrove: me too. that's exactly what i thought.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Raffila Millgrove: so brave, such courage.
    Wol Euler: it's easy to be brave when you feel in the midst of an unstoppable army, but to be brave when alone at 3am, well ... that is of a higher order
    Raffila Millgrove: yes. it was that aloneness.
    Raffila Millgrove: sometimes my friends in a book club talk about faith.. is it a gift. some felt like you could reach out and take it. i was not so sure.. that everyone could just take faith.. like buying at super market.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: where i live. many people churgoers. very "religious". i know how to talk the talk. i have belief system. I just.. find it easier not to impose it on them. their minds are set already.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: it seems a very selfish thing to me, to impose beliefs on others
    Raffila Millgrove: well they say "affinity" group. they say.. we all think the same.. so.. their belief system. they are Sharing it with one another. They aren't really imposing on anyone. just .. that they don't know.. i am not exactly in the same fold with them.
    Wol Euler: even if the rationale is that doing so will improve their lives, I suspect that it is actually done for the doer's comfort and happiness
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: and that's ok. they aren't imposing on me. i am used to it.. i just don't exactly subscribe but if i were to argue it.. or disagree in aspects.. even very diplomatically... it would only make them uncomfortable.. not .. be ... doing any good especially.
    Wol Euler: exactly :)
    Raffila Millgrove: so i just listen and nod. some is amazing stuff.
    Raffila Millgrove: lol
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: oh, there is some core truth in every religion
    Wol Euler: and amazingly enough much of it is the same :)
    Raffila Millgrove: they travel to Africa quite a bit.. for do-gooding. i am not so sure on all that either. but it's interesting to hear about it.
    Wol Euler: I became very English during my years in London, and one of the precepts I adopted was this: "just because something is true, doesn't mean that you need to say it right now"
    Raffila Millgrove: i had a very small charity. when i made bigger money. and i sent a ten percent of my commissions to it. the cool thing in that was.. i just gave it free and clear to one lady i trusted to do as she thought best.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: good idea
    Wol Euler: a good practice, too
    Raffila Millgrove: one day a dr. was at a table.. where i was siting at a big dinner and my friends were kind of amazed that .. i asked him.. since he was an eye specialist pediatric.. if they still use the book.. my charity paid for "My Fake Eye".. and he said on yes. that thing is so helpful.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Raffila Millgrove: i was so happy to hear. that they still used the book i paid to be made.. to help little children and parents understand about prosthetic eyes. The children got cancer at early age and eye/eyes were removed.
    Raffila Millgrove: that's why they needed this book.
    Raffila Millgrove: it was small money.. but... it had big impact. i like idea that a small bit can matter.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: definitely so, raffi


    Raffila Millgrove: I asked myself what i would most like to be.. and i wanted to be a rich person who was a philanthropist.. who gave millions away .. etc. but i would never have the money... so i investigate how to be a small one. it's really easy .. and fun. I just never told anyone...that's why my friends who knew me so long were surprised.
    Wol Euler grins.
    Wol Euler: doing good by stealth :)
    Wol Euler: jesus, buddha and muhammad would all approve
    Raffila Millgrove: well.. it was small. lot of my friends really very rich.. really did give the million etc.. and i didnt' want to.. pretend to be in their league or anything.
    Raffila Millgrove: i also spent a few weeks being very "rich" in NY.. to see what it's like before i die. and i found out. wow. i didn't like it. end up glad i wasn't rich after all.
    Wol Euler: ha!
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Raffila Millgrove: Wol you wouldn't believe how isolating it is.
    Wol Euler: I guess that was worth finding out
    Raffila Millgrove: people put up these walls..
    Raffila Millgrove: i couldn't belive the walls everyone around had up.. protectively.
    Raffila Millgrove: wow. i could get to know them. it was terrible.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: it was so lonely. i was stunned. i could always be open and friendly and forget it. they had a stone wall up on me. i was just amazed. i was so thank ful that i am not born into money...
    Wol Euler: yep
    Raffila Millgrove: who knew. i never really knew this .. how isolated and lonely a very wealthy person can be.... you don't know who really liked you, who to trust.
    Wol Euler: it changes people, no doubt about it
    Raffila Millgrove: it's the other people around you.. they are weirdly kind of afraid of you. afriad you might end their job or hurt them. they have protection walls up.. and say only what they think you want to hear. just frightening.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: i never dreamed it. i am so glad i tried it.
    Wol Euler: that was a lucky chance, if that's the right word


    Raffila assumes that we must part. I reassure her, and we continue with a slight change of topic.

    Raffila Millgrove: well gosh it's already late now.. our meet time ending. Thank you for your patience and kindess, Wol.
    Wol Euler: how did that come up? how did you get to play rich?
    Wol Euler: ok, save that for another day :)
    Wol Euler: my pleasure, raffi
    Wol Euler: thanks for being gentle with moon :)
    Wol Euler: (the meeting time is just a convention, some go on much longer. The record is six hours)
    Raffila Millgrove: omg i think i was mildly jerky. but i hope.. not. as a good monkly person.. i am sure he forgive me.
    Raffila Millgrove: i think monks aren't they supposed to be beyond getting insulted or something. I don't really know.. any real life Buddhist monks.. not for many years .. anyway.
    Wol Euler: on the contrary, your behaviour was better tahn most would have managed :)
    Raffila Millgrove: i knew Vendanta ones--but that is Hindu. they are very strict. a dear family friend became a nun with them for awhile.
    Wol Euler: we can talk one day about the notion that we should not insult monks, but that they may with impunity denigrate our lives and feelings :)
    Raffila Millgrove: Christopher ISherwood writes a lot about his experiences with the Vedanta group in LA. my friend was helping him with some projects. she got involved in it too.
    Wol Euler: cool
    Raffila Millgrove: they were so strict on diet.. esp for the times. and i think she had to take 3 baths a day. it was very strenous practice.. they follwed.
    Wol Euler: y'know, somehow "india" and "three baths a day" are contradictory ideas in my mind.
    Raffila Millgrove: yeah .. does seem weird a bit. altho... i guess if you're by the ganges.. you can rinse off a lot.
    Wol Euler: ah, that is true
    Raffila Millgrove: this Vendanta group.. they seem to be from the top caste.. where things like fresh water were plentiful.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: very privileged and well educated Brahmin


    Raffila Millgrove: the founder. he is the author of Biography of a Yogi and how he started the Self Realization Fellowship here in L.A. It's a great book. He must have been a very kind/good man.. he comes across so honest in this book. i wish i could have met him. we still ahve beautiful center and gardens they built and the nuns are still here too.
    Wol Euler googles
    Wol Euler: http://www.vedanta.org/ <- probably these guys?
    Raffila Millgrove: see the quote.. that's him! Vivekananda.
    Raffila Millgrove: sp?
    Raffila Millgrove: now he's called a swami. i don't think he was called that in the beginning.
    Wol Euler: oh, interesting, you apparently got a differrent random quote than I did :)
    Raffila Millgrove: in his book. he tells of travels as a young boy in India.. to see famous yogi. he travelled .. to them.
    Raffila Millgrove: one was a woman. she lived by breath alone.
    Raffila Millgrove: he had a very open mind. he didn't really worry too much about true or false.. just wanted to see these people. see where he would fit himself. turns out he was called as a missionary to America.
    Wol Euler listens.
    Raffila Millgrove: he had since he was a tiny boy.. the idea that he was called to do something ... important. something that might bring peace or harmony to the world.
    Raffila Millgrove: but he's so human. not at all saintly. very funny.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Raffila Millgrove: did you read a book like that.. of some "famous" person.. who inspired you?
    Wol Euler: hmmmmmmmmmm
    Wol Euler: I think the answer is "no", but I'm not sure that is a true answer :)
    Raffila Millgrove: sometimes i read a book... and i realize. mm.. that must be where i got that idea! i forgot how much i absorbed from reading all the time.
    Raffila Millgrove: if i re read old books. i am kinda floored how much.. i took away. not even realizing at the time.
    Wol Euler: exactly
    Wol Euler: "eyeless in gaza" by aldous huxley introduced me to many ideas that took me decades to really understand
    Wol Euler: for example
    Wol Euler: about asceticism and service
    Raffila Millgrove: what did he think on it?
    Wol Euler: that it was a good thing, but not for everyone
    Wol Euler: it was good to achieve that and do it, but less so to want to do it :)
    Raffila Millgrove: mm. worthwhile thought.
    Wol Euler: Right Action, in other terms
    Wol Euler: I wonder now whether that is all in the book, or whether my memories of it are coloured by what I've done and read since
    Raffila Millgrove: he lived in here near Santa Monica.. and he had all the English expats over for brunch every sunday. the core that hung .. was amazing. Isherwood was among them. Anais Nin came sometimes. the poet laurete (sp) of England. name escapes me. They must have had fascinating talks.
    Wol Euler: indeeed
    Wol Euler: his attachment to that group and those ideas is genuine, so it's likely that I'm not falsely remembering
    Raffila Millgrove: he and Nin.. they both took LSD.. during these experiments .. on whether it affected creativity.
    Raffila Millgrove: while it was still legal. around 1960...
    Raffila Millgrove: mabye a few years later. Nin writes about how Huxley got her into the experiments.
    Wol Euler: glory days :)


    Wol Euler sighs.
    Wol Euler: I should get going, I have to work this afternoon
    Raffila Millgrove: me too.
    Raffila Millgrove: thanks for visiting. i really enjoy to see you here.
    Wol Euler: thanks for a lovely conversation, raffi
    Wol Euler: awww, my pleasure
    Wol Euler: see you at noon
    Raffila Millgrove: /hug Wol
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: sleep well, raffi
    Raffila Millgrove: ty. goodnight. xo

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