2012.10.14 19:00 - Circulating

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.
    The topics in circulation in this sesion include: 

    energy, absence, being seen, anger, choice, not-doing, tao, ecology, social media.

    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :) one sec kettle just boiled
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Paradise :)
    Paradise Tennant: bought some Fauchon tea today .. citrua and lavender smells great
    Paradise Tennant: how are you cal
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm fine, a bit speedy ... got off the phone just before this from a lively (lovely?) conversation.
    Paradise Tennant: nice :))
    Paradise Tennant: lively conversation just makes everything better doesn't it
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes .. like a shot of espresso .. but better :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles nice thing is you can have both at the same time
    Calvino Rabeni: Right ! That's doubly good ...and if it happens in a cafe, all the better
    Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
    Paradise Tennant: did you have topic tonight you wanted to explore ?
    Calvino Rabeni: What's on my mind is the topic of "energy" ... it's pretty broad
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't mean physics, of course
    Paradise Tennant: I find it amazing how it ripples through us
    Calvino Rabeni: um yes ...I like that perspective on it
    --BELL--

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi stevenaia :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Cal
    Paradise Tennant: hiya stev
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Paradise....looking at the suggested topic
    stevenaia Michinaga: perplexed
    stevenaia Michinaga: Absence, is that like dropping?
    Calvino Rabeni: We'd started a topic of energy ... is there a suggested topic list?
    Calvino Rabeni: Absence
    Calvino Rabeni: ok and "perplexed"
    stevenaia Michinaga: under the pics od the guardians,
    stevenaia Michinaga: energy is the absence of matter
    Calvino Rabeni: This could be a starting point - energy, absence, and perplexed
    Paradise Tennant: could take us full circle to being lost :))))
    Calvino Rabeni: it reminds me of ..
    Calvino Rabeni: um ..
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...listens
    Calvino Rabeni: (thinks of an old comedy routine about a Pathological Liar)
    Calvino Rabeni: ... Yeah! That's it ..! :)
    Calvino Rabeni: A metaphor occurs to me
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t remember that one, but I can see it has possibilities
    Calvino Rabeni: the patterns of circulation of water in a river
    Calvino Rabeni: there are complex eddies, going forward and backward
    Calvino Rabeni: if you throw one of fall's leaves on the stream
    Calvino Rabeni: it may circle around and around, eventually rejoining the main stream
    Calvino Rabeni: and there are cycles generated inside by the frictions of the outer cycles
    Calvino Rabeni: and sometimes they go in the opposite direction
    Calvino Rabeni: it's rather perplexing
    Paradise Tennant: so how we accommodate the flow of energy .. it circles through us connects us comes back to us and then eddys away again ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Tying it to energy and experience ? Thought processes often go round in circles, don't they ... seeking something new but seemingly constrained by the flows around them
    Paradise Tennant: brb laundry
    Calvino Rabeni: some of these circular patterns could be called addictive
    Calvino Rabeni: like when someone gets themselves worked up in anger, as a kind of strategy for motivation
    stevenaia Michinaga: but they really aren't circular, each circle is new, not a repeating pattern
    Calvino Rabeni: not literally circular, but similar forms keep repeating
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: the guy keeps thinking of things that make him angry about a person or situation
    Calvino Rabeni: there is a large quantity of creative energy tied up in it
    stevenaia Michinaga: feedback of the worst kind
    stevenaia Michinaga: self reinforcing negitivity
    Calvino Rabeni: and there are some new ideas, but it's still within the old orbits, hasn't re-joined the bigger flow yet
    stevenaia Michinaga: although it usually involves lots of energy
    Calvino Rabeni: indeed
    Calvino Rabeni: and sometimes the anger energy is a substitute for some other kind of energy
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, that kind of eddy
    Calvino Rabeni: like someone feels underneath it, fatigued, or powerless
    stevenaia Michinaga: absence of power
    --BELL--

    Calvino Rabeni: In a bigger sense, absence indicates a situation in which something is present, but elsewhere
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t absence the presence of nothing
    stevenaia Michinaga: jsts the other side of somethng else
    Calvino Rabeni: that sounds like a logical definition?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yin and yang
    Calvino Rabeni: The other side of something else
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: like the absence of "heads" on a coin, meaning, that the coin has the tail side up
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: everything has its counterpart
    Calvino Rabeni: the absence of sunniness means you are currently looking at the dark side of the planet
    stevenaia Michinaga: the wonders of balance
    Calvino Rabeni: It's about I suppose, where attention is directed, as much as, about a property of the world
    stevenaia Michinaga: probably about both
    Paradise Tennant:

    absence (usually uncountable; plural absences)
    1. A state of being absent or withdrawn from a place or from companionship.
    2. Failure to be present where one is expected, wanted, or needed; nonattendence; deficiency

    Calvino Rabeni: yes, that does refer to the attention, doesn't it
    Paradise Tennant: I guess in large measure we live our lives absently we are seldom really here
    Calvino Rabeni: which implies, we are somewhere else
    Calvino Rabeni: where?
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice to know there is always some other place to go
    Paradise Tennant: in the virtual realities of our circle thoughts for the most part I suspect
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: when there is no other place to go, I think that's called an "emergency"
    stevenaia Michinaga: or , you just aren't looking from where you are absent from
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi boxy
    Paradise Tennant: I think being has to have a good measure of surrender to now and letting go of the brain chatter
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, mr cal! good to see you
    Paradise Tennant: surrender to no thought
    Alfred Kelberry: evening, ladies
    Calvino Rabeni: mind going round in repetitive loops ... a friend was talking about the cycle of anger and its repetitiiousness
    Calvino Rabeni: He was currently enjoying a book by Pema Chodron, with the title "Don't Bite the Hook"
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Boxy Al :)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya boxy
    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like punching yourself out of a bag
    Calvino Rabeni: but in terms of stevenaia's idea, "you just aren't looking from where you are absent from"
    Calvino Rabeni: how does that apply
    Alfred Kelberry: what caused him anger?
    Paradise Tennant: http://www.amazon.ca/Dont-Bite-Hook-Resentment-Destructive/dp/1590304349
    Calvino Rabeni: himself caused him anger
    --BELL--

    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe that's an unfair statement
    Alfred Kelberry: no, i think you're right
    Calvino Rabeni: more like the river of his life energy entered a box canyon of a certain shape and started going round in eddies
    Calvino Rabeni: and the circulating pattern lost sight of its way out
    Alfred Kelberry: we may attach ourselves to an issue and go round fueling it
    Calvino Rabeni: But I did mean something by stating it that way
    Alfred Kelberry: box canyon - nice analogy :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: what;s the way out?
    Calvino Rabeni: When a person is predisposed to feeling a certain way about things ... anger for instance, that pattern manages to happen pretty independent of the specific circumstances
    stevenaia Michinaga: not easilly guided out of the canyon by another
    Calvino Rabeni: way out .. good question .. on the email list Moon referenced an article on positive attitude .. I think it was intended as a clue about that way out
    Alfred Kelberry: stev, i think it may be a new perspective. a shift from what cal said: predisposed to feeling a certain way about things.
    stevenaia Michinaga: we many know that, but what is the key to showing another the way
    Alfred Kelberry: i mean, the problem may be long gone, but you still wind up yourself
    Calvino Rabeni: showing another, or being able to see it?
    Calvino Rabeni: nods to Boxy about the self-winding
    Alfred Kelberry: stev, hmm...
    Calvino Rabeni: the friend today was noticing the way he was addicted (his words) to winding himself up
    Calvino Rabeni: to build up energy
    stevenaia Michinaga: having the key and putting it someone elses hands are two different things
    Paradise Tennant: find the easiest brake is to ponder how much harm I am doing myself and ultimately not impacting whatever it is I am mad at :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but it kept him in the same old same old circulating pattern
    Calvino Rabeni: yes!
    Calvino Rabeni: You hit the same idea he figured out, Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: don't enjoy anger find it very heavy and hard to hold on to
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Alfred Kelberry: para, wise you :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: typically you find a solution when you hit bottom... with a bit of wisdom of your own making
    Alfred Kelberry: so, the first step is realization of the problem?
    Paradise Tennant: just letting go ...
    Paradise Tennant: actually forgetting
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, and it is that easy
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: An idea from evolutionary psychology goes something like, the function of anger is short term social communication and it's intended to complete, pretty quickly ... when someone is isolated, disconnected from the social world in which the anger is relevant and actionable, then it is dysfunctional
    Alfred Kelberry: like letting go of a relationship that is not good for you, but which you've invested 5 years of your life :)
    Alfred Kelberry: may not be easy
    Calvino Rabeni: sort of like, use or let go of it, but don't brood or let it ramify into a symbolic virtual world within the mind
    Paradise Tennant: you have to be able to pipe up and say hey ! stop or that is not right whatever the appropriate response is then equally important to forget
    Calvino Rabeni: (if I understand what Para was saying earlier about those virtual mental worlds)
    Calvino Rabeni: yes acted and forgotten .. it also depends on it being well-received
    Calvino Rabeni: seen
    Calvino Rabeni: the absence of being visible would break its workability
    Calvino Rabeni: (to tie "absence" and "being seen" themes together)
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, re: isolation. yes, it's effective to halt anger, but then this social world becomes toxic for you and you avoid it
    Calvino Rabeni: toxic is a concept like "waste" .. it's a resource out of place
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: it seems to me in a well-functioning ecosystem there aren't any toxic wastes
    Calvino Rabeni: because everything produced gets consumed
    Paradise Tennant: yes !
    Paradise Tennant: or they are necessary
    --BELL--

    Alfred Kelberry: in an utopian system :)
    Calvino Rabeni: by some other part of the ecology
    stevenaia Michinaga: or it isn't well functioning
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, you say it's the ecosystem that is at fault for someone's anger?
    Calvino Rabeni: when someone is angry, and it doesn't resolve, it is a co-arising phenomenon of that person and the field or system they are part of
    Alfred Kelberry: on a side note, there are people who actually like going back to the source of anger and charge up repeatedly :)
    Calvino Rabeni: like the water in the box canyon
    Paradise Tennant: I think maybe the simplest way of getting there is to remember you can be whatever you like
    Calvino Rabeni: yes I have a friend who knows he uses his anger in that way
    Paradise Tennant: I don't like being mad or really sad so I choose not to
    Paradise Tennant: be either
    Calvino Rabeni: getting himself worked up
    Calvino Rabeni: partly because he has chronic fatigue
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes para, I feel the same way
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the qualifying word is "really" for me, or rather getting "stuck" that way .. I feel okay about states where the energy circulates
    Calvino Rabeni: just not toxic
    Alfred Kelberry: para, yes, i like the approach. can't help it sometimes though :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: practice
    Alfred Kelberry: oh, i do
    Alfred Kelberry: i do also accept my shortcomings
    Calvino Rabeni: Paradise mentioned, before you came, the idea of energy rippling through one ..
    Calvino Rabeni: I think that's a principle of .. well among other things, detoxification
    stevenaia Michinaga: time for me to go
    stevenaia Michinaga: night my friends
    Alfred Kelberry: night, stev
    Calvino Rabeni: Good night, stevnaia .. good to see you, dream well
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Alfred Kelberry: para, can you say more on the rippling energy?
    Paradise Tennant: NITE NITE STEV
    Paradise Tennant: just it leaps through us
    Paradise Tennant: find I sometimes focus if I am going into a meeting or a group on bringing it up
    Paradise Tennant: I don't know how to express it just sending I guess you wouild call it good energy
    Calvino Rabeni: nods yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I know what you mean
    Paradise Tennant: and for some reason I think it seems to work
    Paradise Tennant: or at least I feel it does
    Alfred Kelberry: you mean, find a safe, positive place?
    Calvino Rabeni: a question is, do we have the courage (or whatever ) to validate such insights?
    Alfred Kelberry: charge up with its good energy field?
    Paradise Tennant: no I mean bringing up the mood of the group or the energy of the group
    Paradise Tennant: would watch my dad do this .. he would beam at people ..
    Paradise Tennant: just send sunshine out to them and they would beam back lit up
    Calvino Rabeni: Would you "believe in" it based on experience and reflection, or would it help for there to be some additional consensus reality expressing the same insights?
    Paradise Tennant: by the warmth
    Calvino Rabeni: nods your father was a good source of such learnigns
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, yes. that's what my dad likes to do :)
    Calvino Rabeni: There's an islamic saying ... trust in god but tie your camel
    Alfred Kelberry: it's really amazing what a simple smile and a wish of a good morning can do to a person
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: self trust takes time to develop
    Calvino Rabeni: yes Boxy
    Calvino Rabeni: interesting, I went downtown on the bus the other day .. it's been years since I did that ... it seemed the social atmosphere has assimilated some of that principle
    Alfred Kelberry: especially for someone like a cleaner lady who's being often neglected
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, where is it?
    Calvino Rabeni: it seems different ... not just more politeness and civility, but it was there on an emotional energy level too
    Calvino Rabeni: oh downtown Seattle, express bus during the commuter period
    Paradise Tennant: animals really seem to pick up on vibes ..
    Alfred Kelberry: that's really awesome, cal
    --BELL--

    Calvino Rabeni: There's a school of yoga based on that principle / insight too .. I like the way they state it:

    Spanda is a Sanskrit term for the subtle creative pulse of the universe as it manifests into the dynamism of living form. Spanda can be translated to mean vibration, movement, or motion, referring to waves of activity issuing forth from an unseen Source of spontaneous expression. On a more personal level, spanda refers to consciousness as it orients through thought and intention to organize into authentic action.  http://www.spandayoga.com/whatis.html

    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: if we pull apart our day what more authenitc action can we have .. than trying to make others feel better :))
    Paradise Tennant: interesting thing is that it invariably you feel better we come full circle to the ripple thing :)))
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Paradise Tennant: it is an interesting practise in tense or confrontational situations .. to stop and try to hold that person tenderly in your mindl
    Paradise Tennant: find it slows my breath ..
    Paradise Tennant: gives me ease ..
    Calvino Rabeni: I made a joke earlier about a "pathological liar" ... this character that improvises what he says and invents his narrative as he listens to himself and looks at how it is received
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkYNBwCEeH4
    Calvino Rabeni: Although it seems to me a very similar skill is needed for effective living
    Alfred Kelberry: it'd be nice to lessen the amount of "bad news" on the media to help the positive ripple effect. each morning, you turn radio or tv on and hear never ending arguments, complaints, something got blown up, someone got killed, raped, etc... you start to think we live in a horrible place :)
    Paradise Tennant: or not ... I don't watch it .. or very seldom It can make me cry
    Alfred Kelberry: same here, para
    Paradise Tennant: take it in very small does in written fomr
    Paradise Tennant: form
    Calvino Rabeni: seems that would be an unhealthy influence .. I'm not much of a news follower
    Paradise Tennant: it really is not the news
    Paradise Tennant: itis what they can spin to sell papers
    Alfred Kelberry: i try to instead see myriads of good deeds and acts of kindness, of which there are many
    Paradise Tennant: the real news is in data that seldom gets in the papers
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at boxy
    Calvino Rabeni: nods to Boxy, you do have an insight there about being more self-determining
    Alfred Kelberry: para, you and me may not watch it, but in terms of society, it gives a fair amount of bad ripples
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: 'fraid so
    Paradise Tennant: it creates completely false realities
    Paradise Tennant: though reality is such funny stuff really
    Calvino Rabeni: It's okay to access those spun realities, but unfortunately it shapes the experiencer into a contracting world
    Paradise Tennant: I wonder if that is really true .. think we each live in our own .. and each is completely valid ..as valid as the next
    Calvino Rabeni: speaking of absence, ... the idea of the usefulness of being absent from that spun reality is gaining a little traction too
    Alfred Kelberry: yes. i mean, those news are also real and they do happen, but they get a predominant time share on the feeds.
    Calvino Rabeni: Here, for instance: http://www.sabbathmanifesto.org/
    Alfred Kelberry: which time and again brings us to... balance :)
    Calvino Rabeni: just unplug. one day a week.
    Calvino Rabeni: make room for .. well being more than that spun reality
    Calvino Rabeni: which is one way balance could be allowed to enter
    Calvino Rabeni: or have more of a chance
    Paradise Tennant: like having one day just to exhale :)) really ..do nothing .. and I no longer feel guilty about it

    --BELL--
    Alfred Kelberry: a day a week without the internet also allows for productivity :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles :)))
    Paradise Tennant: I think I should say thank you and good night :))
    Paradise Tennant: getting late here
    Paradise Tennant: time to walk under the moon :))
    Paradise Tennant: and wonder if it is really cheese
    Calvino Rabeni: nice opportunity
    Alfred Kelberry: cal, great initiative, but i frown upon the word sabbath
    Calvino Rabeni: good night, dream well
    Paradise Tennant: namaste my friends :))) sweet dreams :)
    Alfred Kelberry: be good, para girl!
    Calvino Rabeni: On the seventh day they rested :)
    Calvino Rabeni: By the way, Boxy, do you follow "Pinterest"?
    Alfred Kelberry: no
    Calvino Rabeni: nor I, just curious
    Alfred Kelberry: i get the meaning, but if it's about unplugging, why bring religious tint to it? or even confrontation one may think
    Calvino Rabeni: there are places where religious topics are divisive or at least too edgy
    Alfred Kelberry: i think in any place :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but in my view, it is worth it, to slowly re-introduce many of the insights and wisdom of past religious cultures into a secular age
    Calvino Rabeni: an opinion, only
    Calvino Rabeni: out of the closet
    Calvino Rabeni: slowly :)
    Calvino Rabeni: very slowly
    Alfred Kelberry: i agree, it's good to learn the origins
    Calvino Rabeni: not just to "know" but to resuscitate what was worthwhile
    Calvino Rabeni: at some point I guess it will get a techno-centric term, something like "retrospective cultural wisdom mining"
    Calvino Rabeni: give that 15 years ... some equivalent of it will achieve some social currency
    Calvino Rabeni: Here's this web site .. the anti "to-do list"
    Alfred Kelberry: i hope bitcoins are up in currency too in 15 years :)
    Calvino Rabeni: http://theundolist.com/
    Alfred Kelberry: now this is intrusive. they pop up the subscription window in my face page right on.
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah, I just clicked the[x]
    Alfred Kelberry: no usual "close button", and the only way to get rid of it is to click the link "Already subscribed? Click to close this window"
    Calvino Rabeni: that worked for me
    Alfred Kelberry: this is an instant no go for me :)
    Calvino Rabeni: well it didn't continue to nage
    Calvino Rabeni: but i agree it was an etiquette flaw
    Alfred Kelberry: if i can't close an irritating popup, i close the page :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I found it easily done
    --BELL--

    Alfred Kelberry: well, a good initiative, nonetheless
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: bit coins are one alternative
    Calvino Rabeni: Here's a nice edge topic, the idea of multiple alternative currencies or economies - http://polyeconomy.info/
    Calvino Rabeni: Their slogan is "please consider differences in your freedom of choosing"
    Alfred Kelberry: social karma - i like that :)
    Calvino Rabeni: like that's a guiding principle .. I like it
    Alfred Kelberry: i suppose some famous celebrity could go on on his own karmic awesomeness for a long time :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i'll have a steak, potato, and a bottle of red wine. take 20 karma points off my awesomeness :)
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm I am out of it with respect to celebrity awareness
    Alfred Kelberry: btw, i never got around to understand the american celebrity phenomenon
    Calvino Rabeni: Sorry Boxy I can't help you with that either
    Calvino Rabeni: I heard somewhere - "Andy Warhol got it wrong ... people won't be famous for 15 minutes, they will be famous to 15 people"
    Calvino Rabeni: It's the "long tail" of renown
    Alfred Kelberry: ha!
    Calvino Rabeni: But my steak and potato is almost ready ... I'll have green tea with it however :)
    Alfred Kelberry: i read somewhere that the top 1k youtube channels make up to 20k a month. you're right about 15 people :)
    Alfred Kelberry: good choice :)
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it's like that with "app" development too ... the long tail is making $400 a month, the tall part of the curve, megabux
    Calvino Rabeni: anyway, GTG
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks for the conversation,
    Alfred Kelberry: you too. please come more often :)
    Calvino Rabeni: be well
    Calvino Rabeni: nods, i have to come to this one, it's my session :)
    Alfred Kelberry: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks for the encouragement
    Calvino Rabeni: see you around
    Calvino Rabeni: bye

     

     

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