2012.10.21 19:00 - Talking Trash

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Xs Andree: ao off
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Xs
    Xs Andree: Hello, Calvino
    Xs Andree: I really appreciate the time you guys take out to commit to these meetings.
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks ! I'm just getting settled actually, today is busier than usual.. got something in the microwave
    Calvino Rabeni: How are your impressions so far of the meetings you've attended?
    Xs Andree: Likely the only reason I haven't left second life again, to be honest. I came back to check on the feasibility of building again to earn a little extra money
    Xs Andree: seems the economy here takes a harder hit than in the RL, since everything here is discretionary income, and not necessary
    Xs Andree: But I still build for fun.
    Calvino Rabeni: I guess .. could be so .. yes :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Paradise :0
    Paradise Tennant: hiya xs cal :))
    Calvino Rabeni: If only, everyone could get paid a bit for their labours of love or fun
    Calvino Rabeni: sometimes I think the economy has headed in that direction
    Calvino Rabeni: a lot of people do a lot of things that don't get directly compensated with money
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: its like play I guess, like how play maybe ought to be, that people do things that are good to do for themselves, and somehow nature or the economy gives back
    Calvino Rabeni: like animals play and sometimes find food along the way
    Calvino Rabeni: they would play regardless :)
    Xs Andree: if our economy were allowed to run a more natural course, perhaps it would.
    Xs Andree: I'm not too worried about money, but I'm unemployed, I just came back to see if it was feasable or not. I didn't expect to find something like Play at Being...which is the kind of thing I do with all my free time anyway, or at least a large portion of it.
    Xs Andree: It is personally rewarding...and I don't have to spend any money on it...
    Xs Andree: and being happier lets me escape the consumer trap of purchasing disposable happiness.
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a trap

    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, someone had a name for it "affluenza"
    Paradise Tennant: lol perfect
    Xs Andree: I like that, Affluenza
    Xs Andree: it is contagious. I have had a hard time getting my unemployment, which i paid into to start with
    Xs Andree: for almost two months i relied on the generosity of others while I had no money.
    Xs Andree: learned to do without, learned to eat differently
    Xs Andree: then last week was the first time I got to actually grocery shop
    Xs Andree: ....and I was surprised at myself at how good it felt to have the cart in my hands, wandering down the aisles of the groecry store with money to spend
    Xs Andree: and I was like....
    Xs Andree: ....
    Xs Andree: How did this happen to me?
    Xs Andree: it was revealing at how even as unplugged as i am to the system, its influence is everywhere.
    Xs Andree: I get a little money, and suddenly I'm happy that i have something to spend.
    Xs Andree: oh, what is the topic this week?
    Calvino Rabeni: The suggestion is "Deception", but it can be anything we desire ... next week is "Desire"
    Xs Andree waves hello to Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: like grocery shopping ..
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking about my non-participation in the economy
    Paradise Tennant: just always makes me marvel at how all the stuff gets here
    Calvino Rabeni: i should say, minimalized
    Xs Andree grins
    Calvino Rabeni: oh it comes in big boxes from China, that's how :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I was out on the bay the other day and a container ship went by ... those are HUGE
    Xs Andree: where factory workers are required to be in motion 58 minutes out of every hour,
    Calvino Rabeni: Hanjin Company
    Xs Andree: the assembly line was more about the deskilling of the labor force than it is about productivity.
    Xs Andree: people become as interchangeable as the machines, even more so, as the machines have all the skills built into them.
    Calvino Rabeni: Productivity is .. I'd put it in the category of Deception
    Xs Andree nods nods
    Calvino Rabeni: sliding it into the theme-of-the-week
    Xs Andree: It certainly fits.
    Calvino Rabeni: surely so
    Calvino Rabeni: it seems odd, that it is such an unexamined concept
    Paradise Tennant: blinking
    Xs Andree: I saw a very interesting documentary called "Human Resources" you can find it on you tube, in 9 parts, fifteen minutes each.
    Paradise Tennant: why
    Paradise Tennant: is productivity part of deception?
    Xs Andree: it is extremely comprehensive, and deals with a wide variety of topics from social engineering to mind control experiments to education.
    Calvino Rabeni: the concept of productivity is part of the deception
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hell fvtty :)) welcome
    Paradise Tennant: great outfit :)
    Fatty Kidd: grtz
    Xs Andree: Because it is euphemistically labelled, they don't call it what it is to avoid offending those it violates.
    Xs Andree: welcome to the zombie apocalypse.
    Paradise Tennant: what is it
    Xs Andree: Profit at the expense of the worker.
    Xs Andree: monetary profit, i should say, profit used to have a much wider meaning as well
    Calvino Rabeni: Mainly it's deceptive because it is not examined in a way that takes into account externalities, ecology, downstream and systemic side effects
    Xs Andree: right, it's narrowly focused on monetary profit for the company, not necessarily the actual profit of society, the world we live in, the people who work and their families....
    Calvino Rabeni: technology and industrial production has grown in "efficiency" but that gain is always translated to immediately increased consumption

    Xs Andree: Have you read "Gone Tomorrow: A history of Trash"?
    Xs Andree: It is an extremely revealing and straightforward book.
    Calvino Rabeni: sounds fascinating
    Xs Andree: it deals with consumption, and where all the resources are going
    Xs Andree: straight to the dump, so we can buy more, and not only is it deliberate, the amount of money spent on commercial advertising to keep it going is astounding
    Xs Andree: that we'd have to be convinced that hard
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Gone-Tomorrow-Hidden-Life-Garbage/dp/1595581200/
    Paradise Tennant: hiya aph
    Xs Andree: YES, that is the name.
    Xs Andree waves waves
    Xs Andree: Sorry, hello everyone.
    Aphrodite Macbain: hello
    Aphrodite Macbain: thought I'd come for the last 15 minutes
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Aphro :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: hey Cal
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi paradise, Xs
    Xs Andree: I love your avi, fatty
    Calvino Rabeni: A lot of it circulates in patterns of ocean currents
    Calvino Rabeni: which is in itself quite interesting
    Aphrodite Macbain: a lot of garbage?
    Calvino Rabeni: Book - Flotsametrics and the Floating World
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Flotsametrics-Floating-World-Obsession-Revolutionized/dp/B0046LUEKU/
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods. I wonder how it can be cleaned up. That would be something useful to develop
    Xs Andree: stop making it, would be a good start.
    Aphrodite Macbain: a giant garbage eating pacman
    Xs Andree: our world economy has been increasingly disposable instead of asset based for a long time.
    Xs Andree: things we buy are built to be disposed of so we have to keep buying it, over and over again.
    Fatty Kidd: thx thx
    Xs Andree: welcome back
    Aphrodite Macbain: fatty- you seem to have a bad headache
    Paradise Tennant: have you been to pab before fvtty ?
    Fatty Kidd: This spacE?
    Fatty Kidd: No sorrty
    Fatty Kidd: Oh you guys are psychonauts huh?
    Calvino Rabeni: ok welcome Fatty Kidd ...
    Calvino Rabeni: we have a session recorder that runs here
    Calvino Rabeni: and the idea is to tell visitors about it
    Calvino Rabeni: and see if that's ok with them
    Xs Andree: lol i do like that term, thank you, Fatty, I never thought of it that way, but we are, kind of, aren't we?
    Calvino Rabeni: the text we type goes on a wiki that is open to read
    Aphrodite Macbain: do you really want what you say on record?
    Xs Andree: I DO
    Xs Andree: ...hem...sorry
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes but does fatty?
    Fatty Kidd: I am no this person so I can't be held responsible for what it says
    Xs Andree: Anon
    Aphrodite Macbain: How are you paradise?
    Xs Andree: When I walk by security cameras and atm machines, sometimes I stop and look into the camera, and wave
    Xs Andree: ...I see you too.
    Fatty Kidd: We're kind of just reflections of others we observe not really just a meat mirror with legs but is also hungry so it kills
    Aphrodite Macbain: clever
    Paradise Tennant: very well thank aph and you hon ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: still a bit jet lagged
    Paradise Tennant: need to rest up
    Xs Andree: how very true. chilling you would say that, I found the same experience playing a Malkavian in VTM
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- I'm ready for bed now and it's only 8pm
    Xs Andree: Her name was Echo
    Calvino Rabeni: Actually, afraid I must leave at 8:00 also ... sitting here eating my mango crisp but have something that needs attending
    Paradise Tennant: what is vtm
    Paradise Tennant: ok thanks cal :))
    Xs Andree: Vampire: The Masquerade, and old roleplaying game that was popular in the mid 80's to late 90s

    Aphrodite Macbain: bye everyone
    Xs Andree: Goodnight Aph
    Calvino Rabeni: Be well all ... Off to work I go :) Yo ho, Yo Ho
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Xs Andree: joy
    Fatty Kidd: Ever wonder where one person begins and the other ends in a relationship
    Calvino Rabeni: excellent question !
    Xs Andree: not anymore.
    Fatty Kidd: You can't really treat couples as individuals
    Paradise Tennant: that is a great question
    Fatty Kidd: I mean they essentially share all of their bodily functions and emotions
    Xs Andree: Not without dishonoring their relationship.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: one flesh
    Fatty Kidd: What if the relationship is open
    Xs Andree: then it is so by agreement, usually there are rules they agree to abide by, what constitutes a violation of faith and what does not.
    Fatty Kidd: How are boundaries formed when there carte blanche
    Xs Andree: There is never full carte blanche, not in any stable open relationship
    Xs Andree: everyone you bring into the relationship affects it.
    Paradise Tennant: hiya bertrum nice to see you :)
    Bertrum Resident: hi
    Xs Andree: even if the rules aren't laid out formally, usually there is a mutual agreement on what is beneficial and what is not.
    Xs Andree: influences that try to divide the relationship is either discarded or the relationship falls apart
    Fatty Kidd: But not only with intimate relationships even vague ones such as knowing someone through association as through a job or a group function consciousness is being shared in the space but there is a will to seperate ourselves on vanity
    Xs Andree: Do I know you?
    Xs Andree nods.
    Xs Andree: Agreed
    Fatty Kidd: I hate personally can't stand others
    Xs Andree: from work to play
    Fatty Kidd: Especially people of authority
    Xs Andree: hmm...that depends upon where authority derives.
    Xs Andree: A medical doctor has authority derived from knowledge and understanding.
    Fatty Kidd: Apparently some think authority is handed down from a supposed power like say a christian would attribute to their god
    Xs Andree: Or by affluence or social class...or the idea that some are of more worth or more knowledgeable...
    Xs Andree: or more profitable to be on good terms with.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles sorry getting sleepy :)) thanks xs .. bertrum fvtty for the company the conversation :))
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: thank you Para
    Paradise Tennant: smiles nite nite sweet dreams :)))
    Fatty Kidd: But ultimately authority has no real intrinsic power only that which people value it
    Xs Andree: We are all complicit
    Fatty Kidd: Everything is defined by majority rule
    Xs Andree: Even when it appears that it is not.
    Xs Andree: Even the elite must rely on their enforcers and intermediaries within the hierarchy to get things done.
    Xs Andree: Ray Kroc can't flip all the burgers
    Xs Andree: Obama didn't shoot Osama
    Xs Andree tilts her head
    Xs Andree: Where did you come from?
    Fatty Kidd: the aether i spose
    Xs Andree smirks
    Xs Andree: must be
    Fatty Kidd: yeah ruling elite
    Xs Andree: u r here for the lulz?
    Fatty Kidd: We must love our masterful lords
    Xs Andree giggles
    Fatty Kidd: I don't lulz
    Xs Andree: eee hee hee hee!
    Fatty Kidd: We do have people on this planet in powerful political offices who do believe they are gods or are under the given authority of gods
    Fatty Kidd: Like nothing new really
    Xs Andree: If the Beast exists, it is in all of us.
    Fatty Kidd: Yeah it does

    Fatty Kidd: When they refer to the beast they don't mean some horned creature
    Fatty Kidd: It's literally beast consciousness
    Fatty Kidd: So called ruling elites and their occult beliefs lead to them believe they have attained a higher level of consciousness and that the rest of us are unworthy of it's power
    Fatty Kidd: apparently all that is needed to be free is the the will
    Xs Andree: I knew you would be interesting, but I never could have anticipated this. Thank you for not trollin here.
    Fatty Kidd: Yeah never troll
    Xs Andree grins
    Xs Andree: i do, but not for lulz.
    Fatty Kidd: I am the mold from which all trolls are cast
    Fatty Kidd: There can be only one
    Xs Andree laughs
    Xs Andree: There is only one.
    Xs Andree: When the bell rings we like to take 90 seconds of silence. I've found i enjoy the moment to reflect more deeply on what is said in silence.
    Xs Andree: It is a nice change from the normal tempo of the net.
    Xs Andree: sure
    Xs Andree: oh yeah,
    Xs Andree: it's up
    Xs Andree: hmm...not really.
    Xs Andree: ahh...but I'm Irish.
    Xs Andree: Trollin has a different meaning to us.
    Xs Andree: well to me, you can troll for such things, but to hack the way people think...not for control, but to share ideas...
    Xs Andree: sometimes you have to troll for them to understand what you mean.
    Xs Andree: lol np
    Xs Andree: phone


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