2012.11.05 19:00 - trust like the wealth of a harvest

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi ELiza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xs, Luci :)

    Xs Andree: ao off
    Xs Andree: hi hi!


    Eliza Madrigal: How are we all doing?
    Xs Andree: really well, thank you
    Pila Mulligan: fine thanks ELiza
    Lucinda Lavender: I have a cold with cough and it is a concert week...not complaining exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: aw... Luci you have great qualifiers
    Pila Mulligan: but not feeling top shape too, it seems
    Pila Mulligan recommends Gan Mao Ling (Chinese herbal tablet)
    Eliza Madrigal: hopefully you have slept through the travels of the last few days :)
    Lucinda Lavender: intresting!

    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Pila... I am seeing an acupunturist now... learning lots
    Eliza Madrigal: and taking herbs, though I have no idea what they are
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pila Mulligan: I bet they may have some, ELiza
    Pila Mulligan: Chinese herbs are quite efficacious, usually
    Eliza Madrigal: I find the ear map so interesting.... had never seen the pattern of the baby before


    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
    Xs Andree: I'm very happy to see you again, Para!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves all around

    11.5 pab_001.png

    Eliza Madrigal: so we have no official topic this week
    Eliza Madrigal: we're off-road. what shall be our adventure?

    Lucinda Lavender: I have had one in my mind...
    Eliza Madrigal: great!
    Paradise Tennant: woooot love a good off road adventure :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Lucinda Lavender: since attending a talk at the buddhist temple
    Lucinda Lavender: we could keep it short...and move on to something else
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh would love to hear Luci
    Paradise Tennant: smiles and listens :)))))
    Xs Andree: yer killing me with suspense, luci..what is it!
    Pila Mulligan: ;)
    Lucinda Lavender: well let me tell you about this topic...it was anger
    Xs Andree: :P
    Eliza Madrigal: ah...
    Lucinda Lavender: and interestingly...the image was put forth of the mind being a clear blue sky
    Lucinda Lavender: and feelings as clouds/weather
    Lucinda Lavender: which blow through
    Eliza Madrigal: "weather" ...nods
    Pila Mulligan: :) nice
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, I'll give you a note of the discussion so far
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
    Lucinda Lavender: this way of looking was interesting to me because it seemed to suggest that feelings are not exactly real
    Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya eos gtsy ;)
    Xs Andree grins
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi playful beings
    Paradise Tennant: feels cloudy :))
    Lucinda Lavender: and that we can look at the people who challenge our view say through criticizm as our teachers
    Xs Andree: Hello Eos, very good to see you today.
    Paradise Tennant: insubstantial :)
    Pila Mulligan: numinous
    Lucinda Lavender: well I can see that feelings dissipate
    Paradise Tennant: luminous :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: they melt
    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
    Lucinda Lavender: or evaporate
    Paradise Tennant: and the stev rainbow just arrived :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie, did you receive the note or did it get lost in your dress?
    Pila Mulligan: [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: and interestingly...the image was put forth of the mind being a clear blue sky [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: and feelings as clouds/weather [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: which blow through

    Lucinda Lavender: just wanted to say that this was the teaching from sunday and I was able to use it for my own self yet not sure what I believe
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sakito, welcome
    Paradise Tennant: or potentially a large bubble bath bubble :))
    Eos Amaterasu: (thnx Eliza)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll IM you about the group if you like to join us
    Paradise Tennant: hiya sakito :))
    Pila Mulligan: hi Sakito
    Xs Andree: I like it, And Sakito has been with me here a few times.
    Lucinda Lavender: that is all
    Xs Andree waves to Saki and Stevenaia excitedly
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, okay ^^, so aware of larger viewership via posted logs
    Eos Amaterasu: hi Saki

    Paradise Tennant: love the metaphor luci .. emotions as just ripples of weather and no more substantial than clouds
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry distracted greetings all
    Lucinda Lavender: we needn't go into detail about it just wanted to say that clarity seemes to come from familiarity and understanding

    Eliza Madrigal: Lucinda, how did you find it helpful to see emotions that way?
    Lucinda Lavender: I have had a few person issues where I am able to get very angry
    Lucinda Lavender: and I am learning that there is through familiarity with the topic the fact that it is bound to come up
    Lucinda Lavender: everyday is full of possible difficulty
    Eos Amaterasu: anger potion #9
    Lucinda Lavender: and our expectation that there should be little is not really practical
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Xs Andree nods nods

    Lucinda Lavender: anyway learning through familiarity with a topic is kind of interesting
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe more acceptance, partience
    Paradise Tennant: human communication is fraught with the peril of missing .. we just miss what the other person really intends to say really means ..really thinks
    Lucinda Lavender: patience
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: done
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at luci yes :))
    Eliza Madrigal: nodding...

    Xs Andree: I was writing to a few friends last night, and something important I wanted to tell them, may i share it? it is brief.
    Paradise Tennant: Thomas Beckett's famous quote the reward of patience is patience .. it is the gold of a peaceful mind
    Lucinda Lavender: happy to go on to other roaeds if you wish
    Eliza Madrigal: no this is beautiful and timely
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you Luci, and of course Xs


    Paradise Tennant: the suv swings round and the xs shifts gears :)))
    Xs Andree: People ask often about the definition of love, or try to capture its meaning. The best definition for love i've found comes in three steps, and three words.

    Xs Andree: Acceptance
    Xs Andree: Acknowledgement
    Xs Andree: Appreciation

    Xs Andree: Acceptance is without condition. I accept who you are, and that you are what you are

    Xs Andree: Acknowledgement that you exist. That you have an impact. You leave a mark upon the world.

    Xs Andree: Appreciation for who you are, that you have worth, that who you are has worth, that you are is of worth.

    Xs Andree: I see you, you are here, I love you.

    Xs Andree: ((end))
    stevenaia Michinaga: :) claps
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you Xs!
    Paradise Tennant: smiles just lovely thank you xs :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: the points you made almost imply differences but absorb them in acknowledgement
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Xs Andree: Paraphrased from something I heard years ago
    Eos Amaterasu: very PaBy
    Xs Andree: You all remind me of these three, even when things are stormy.
    Eos Amaterasu: (!)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a lot of affection in this group
    Paradise Tennant: gorup hugs :))
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: (:)
    Paradise Tennant: lol how about group hugs :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: often there are talk of love here
    Xs Andree: *group hugs*
    Sakito Nakamichi: I really liked that, lovely.

    Lucinda Lavender: do you think that feelings are delusions? that is the interesting idea...

    Eos Amaterasu:

    acceptance :: space acknowledgment :: precision appreciation :: appreciation :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: love
    Eos Amaterasu: & seeing clearly
    Eos Amaterasu: & space

    Pila Mulligan: Luci, I think feelings are geunine usually
    Pila Mulligan: they can be prompted by illusions tho
    stevenaia Michinaga: Reality is the illusion
    Lucinda Lavender: but against a background of acceptance/space then less painful?
    stevenaia Michinaga: feeling are yours , reality is shared
    Pila Mulligan: pain is genuine also

    Xs Andree: I think some are more complex, storms are complex, their conditions arise from things which happen over great time, they build and release...but the thunder and lightning, strong winds, hail and rain are not bad things of themselves.

    Sakito Nakamichi: Feelings... can be manufactured, if you're willing to stuff other things, and put the effort of focus behind it, but it's not something the average person does or can do very often, or even knows OF really.
    Xs Andree: But , like Lucinda says...they don't last long, and they are not us, just part of what happens to us.
    Sakito Nakamichi: A mask with no straps does not conceal the face beneath.

    Eos Amaterasu: does that relate to the open sky you were talking of, Luci?
    Lucinda Lavender: I think so...
    Eos Amaterasu: the scariest mask is the one with no face beneath :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: becoming familiar with what triggers pain...could assist one in acceptance/space I guess

    Sakito Nakamichi: That is what you become if you spend enough time perfecting the art - the mask you wear. Unless you have the surety of a surgeon with an emotional scalpel.
    Eos Amaterasu: getting friendly with the pattern
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: dangerous high wire, Saki

    Lucinda Lavender: so it is not like the pain is not real
    Eos Amaterasu: no
    Eos Amaterasu: but it is free of some extras

    Sakito Nakamichi grins delightedly and nods. "Yes, very much so."
    Xs Andree: I love you, Saki.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eos Amaterasu: :-) :-)
    Sakito Nakamichi: Unfortunate though, you can't create a real osmosis. It's always... off.
    Eliza Madrigal: players only love you when they're playing...? (sorry diversion)
    Sakito Nakamichi: lawl
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Sakito Nakamichi: Yep.

    Eliza Madrigal: enjoying the weather metaphors :)
    Eos Amaterasu ponders 'real osmosis'....
    Sakito Nakamichi: If you are the puppeteer, but the puppet is the only speaker, then who is it?
    Lucinda Lavender: the delusion may be that we think pain is not part of the picture
    Eos Amaterasu feels like an amoeba
    Eliza Madrigal: Luci that is such a good point....
    Eliza Madrigal: it isn't easy to let it be part of things
    Xs Andree: i think, if you can love your role, you can become it, and in becoming it, discover you are more than what you once knew.
    Sakito Nakamichi lays down and putting his head in Xs' lap.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)


    Xs Andree: i think that is the hardest part of balance, realizing those things we once wished to escape because they were so heavy in our lives...
    Xs Andree: are not things to eradicate from our lives...simply put into balance.

    Pila Mulligan: a surprisingly great variety of pains can be resolved by breathing
    Xs Andree nods nods!
    Eos Amaterasu: (like lack of life :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: haha!

    Xs Andree: I've heard that as well, that many of us have forgotten how to breathe in life.
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing about anger is it can feel like a speeding train... breathing perhaps slows that down to see separate components
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and anger can be a rut
    Xs Andree slips her mannequin fingers along Sakito's ear

    Eos Amaterasu: the first flash of anger is pretty choiceless, and probably points with some accuracy, but then it gets decorated
    Eos Amaterasu: and story-lined
    Lucinda Lavender: pictures that run through the mind attach to it
    Pila Mulligan: and confirmation biased
    Pila Mulligan: or is it affrimation?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: we emotionally crucify ourselves with story lines
    Eos Amaterasu: ugh - you can feel that very personally!
    Sakito Nakamichi: Daily, in sleep, until dawn

    Eliza Madrigal: and what of stories- some stories beg to be told perhaps...
    Eos Amaterasu: that is then art!
    Lucinda Lavender: yes the flash then sort can inform you
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: lightning rod

    Xs Andree: Those who must learn, suffer, and pain they cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until in despair and against their own will, comes wisdom by the awful grace of god. -Aeschylus (sp?)
    Eos Amaterasu: can you say more about stories begging to be told?
    Eliza Madrigal: I find that in family dynamics, if there are things that aren't talked about, one person may carry them
    Lucinda Lavender: I slapped 5 friend faces in one blow once
    Eos Amaterasu: in RL?
    Eliza Madrigal: and not just their own stories but others
    Eliza Madrigal: what Luci?!
    Lucinda Lavender: they were teasing me yes
    Eliza Madrigal: wow.. aw
    Paradise Tennant: wow luci !
    Paradise Tennant: bet there were five surprised faces :)
    Lucinda Lavender: and I was acting like the parent and admonishing them for running around the neighborhood in the dark
    Eos Amaterasu: wow
    Lucinda Lavender: they said a few things and I hauled off and slapped

    Lucinda Lavender: anger is scary to me I guess
    Lucinda Lavender: after that

    Eliza Madrigal: speeding train...
    Lucinda Lavender: I was about 11
    Eliza Madrigal: well you didn't know how to drive yet
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))

    Eos Amaterasu: hmm, very powerful
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe that's something to meet,...

    Lucinda Lavender: I did not want to lose them I bet
    Eos Amaterasu: say hello, get friendly
    Lucinda Lavender: with saying what one really wants to say at the heart
    Eos Amaterasu: and how I hold what I really want to say cannot say

    Eliza Madrigal: when preschoolers do this we say "use your words"
    Lucinda Lavender: right:))
    Eliza Madrigal: that if they can begin to articulate and be heard, feel that they have articulated and have been acknowledged
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe what needs to be said is too big for the room
    Eliza Madrigal: then there is some trust in the situations, others but also themselves
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... overspilling our masks....

    Eos Amaterasu: it's nice when there is that trust
    Pila Mulligan: cinq d'un coup, formidable :)
    Eos Amaterasu: "the one" - not a note, not a beat.... a space
    Lucinda Lavender: yes if you have trust it really helps it not escalate
    Xs Andree: I don't like to depend on trust.
    Lucinda Lavender: good point
    Eos Amaterasu: no expectations
    Lucinda Lavender: good point xs

    Eliza Madrigal: my question is, can an environment be made for trust
    Pila Mulligan: sure


    Sakito Nakamichi: How so? How can something like that be formed around different people, yet affecting them equally?
    Xs Andree: i think so...I like to think of trust as...like...the wealth of a harvest, they are the gifts from cultivating fields rightly that can last you through the winter.

    Paradise Tennant: smiles and wihispers thank you everyone for the company, the conversation and the great thoughts to ponder under a dark sky tonight while I walk the dog :))
    Pila Mulligan: bye Paaradise
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Paradise
    Eos Amaterasu: ciao Para
    Xs Andree hugs Para
    Eos Amaterasu: trust like the wealth of a harvest
    Paradise Tennant: namaste my friends :))))
    Xs Andree: Namaste!
    Eos Amaterasu: some kind of tacit bubble we breathe together
    Xs Andree: i like that Eos
    Eliza Madrigal considering

    Xs Andree: A recognition we are in this together.
    Eos Amaterasu: sharing an unknown or choiceless quality
    Eos Amaterasu: but sometimes it seems shattered

    Eliza Madrigal: sure foundation of the sinking ship?
    Eos Amaterasu: can you say more, E? :-)
    Pila Mulligan: did your neighborhood get much of the big storm, Eos
    Pila Mulligan: oops, belay that question
    Lucinda Lavender: the quality of what unfolds? or something less tangible
    Eliza Madrigal: acceptance, and as Luci said... some acknowledgement that there will be disappointment

    Xs Andree: i had to say goodbye to my oldest son when he was very young. While his father and i did not agree or get along anymore, and our trust had been broken...
    Xs Andree: I still trusted he would take care of our son, and he did not break that trust.
    Eliza Madrigal: how difficult Xs
    Xs Andree: It was difficult for me to do, when i trusted nothing else about him.
    Pila Mulligan: maybe you trusted fate

    Xs Andree: In the end, we were both lied to and manipulated.
    Xs Andree: i did that too...but, i cannot argue, I trusted him as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: what was that based on, do you think? need? history? gut feelings? calculation?
    Xs Andree: I was more horrified that he thought i was a danger to our son, but he didn't think that at all, someone else made me think he did, though.
    Xs Andree: It made me wonder if there wasn't something very wrong with me.
    Eliza Madrigal: you didn't trust yourself ... my goodness
    Pila Mulligan: some people get their kicks by manipulation
    Xs Andree smiles

    Pila Mulligan: usually people unable to control themselves, so they try to project control over others

    Xs Andree: That is okay...17 years later, it came out in the open, i got to see my son graduate, and i'm very proud of who he is, he's very much like both of us.
    Sakito Nakamichi giggles. "I do that some. Try to control my surroundings.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well that is the 'dissociative' argument, in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: Congratulations Xs :)
    Xs Andree: and who this other girl is? i have no idea where she is, nor do i care. She failed whatever she was trying to do.
    Xs Andree: thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: Saki I relate to that - I know that I am easily influenced in some ways so I am careful about environment sometimes... over time at least

    Lucinda Lavender: can you describe again the dissociative argument again?
    Xs Andree: Yes, i'm curious as well.
    Lucinda Lavender: in more words?
    Sakito Nakamichi: Me three~
    Eliza Madrigal: well a dissociative is more in a gaming mentality
    Eliza Madrigal: so control of another would be sport...
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think that's what Saki meant though... nor did I...
    Eliza Madrigal: but there may be a parallel to attending to environment rather than doing things directly

    Lucinda Lavender: one is one step removed
    Eliza Madrigal: or more, indeed
    Lucinda Lavender: and pulled into another place
    Eliza Madrigal: or with layers between... perhaps people
    Xs Andree: I've noticed this as well, like the two different types of Trolling
    Eliza Madrigal: for some it could be the parent they never pleased
    Eliza Madrigal: in the middle of everything :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I'm sleepy hope not rambling
    Xs Andree: one to tend one's garden, to...trick the weeds free from the soil without pulling up the good plants
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Xs Andree: and some just like to con others


    Pila Mulligan slips away, singing quietly, love your brothers and sisters and love will come back to you
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Pila
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: bye,... going myself, thanks all
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Pila, Eliza
    Xs Andree: you look wonderful today, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to be with you all tonight
    Xs Andree: Red suits you very well
    Lucinda Lavender: night to all:)
    Xs Andree: ....you remind me..of kharma
    Xs Andree: ㋡
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks ^.^ - was a red sort of day....
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Lucinda Lavender: yes! namaste
    Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'
    Eliza Madrigal: pleasure to meet you Saki
    Eliza Madrigal: see you again
    Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
    Sakito Nakamichi: Hai~ Oyasumi nasai.
    Xs Andree: Namaste
    Eliza Madrigal: ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: Eliza's dress is so pretty, I had to get up to show mine :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: Xs, do you not accept friendships?
    Xs Andree: ido, we aren't friends already?
    Xs Andree: OH, there it came in
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Xs Andree: I had the same problem earlier with Fc
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you Sakito
    Xs Andree: his request never got to me, so I offered to him
    stevenaia Michinaga: give her my love when you see her next, she is out of sync with me atm
    Sakito Nakamichi: Hajimemashite, pleasure to meet you.
    stevenaia Michinaga: fc, oh him, sorry
    Sakito Nakamichi: I'm gonna have to steal that terminology~ "Out of sync with me" an elegant way to explain it.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hard to tell depending on the form
    stevenaia Michinaga: on the other side of the world, well 8 or so hours away
    Xs Andree: i will, Stevenaia, thank you
    Xs Andree beams

    Xs Andree: i'm very happy today.
    Xs Andree: I thought this might have turned out very differently
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, an extrordinary day, tomorrow will repeat I hopes

    Xs Andree: i hope i actually get to vote tomorrow, lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: (election day)

    stevenaia Michinaga: why wouldn;t you? no power
    stevenaia Michinaga: live in FLorida?

    stevenaia Michinaga: I better sleep so I can vote early
    stevenaia Michinaga: night
    Xs Andree: night
    Xs Andree: lol no, just missed early voting today, don't want to miss it tomorrow
    Xs Andree: ao on

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags

    Files 2

    FileSizeDateAttached by 
     11.5 pab_001.png
    No description
    1332.9 kB11:13, 6 Nov 2012elizaActions
    No description
    34.98 kB15:27, 6 Nov 2012elizaActions
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core