2012.11.10 13:00 - Mellie Visits and Drops

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Zon.
    Zon Kwan: hi Bruce
    Zon Kwan: how are things ?
    Bruce Mowbray: Things are pretty good, thanks. A fine, warm day here. Bright sunshine.
    Zon Kwan: nice
    Bruce Mowbray: Just returned from a walk with my dog.
    Bruce Mowbray: How are things where you are?
    Zon Kwan: big dog ?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, sort of.
    Bruce Mowbray: He's a Labrador-border collie mix.
    Bruce Mowbray: Here's a photo of him:
    Bruce Mowbray: www.hermitdog.com
    Zon Kwan: cute
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-) Thanks.
    Bruce Mowbray: That photo is several years old, actually.
    Zon Kwan: dogs are nice
    Zon Kwan: faithful
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I usually prefer the company of dogs to the company of people.
    Zon Kwan: always glad to see you
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Mellie!
    Zon Kwan: hi Mellie
    Mellie McMinnar: Hi.... since you are talking I guess I do not interrupt a meditation?
    Zon Kwan: playing tennis ?
    Zon Kwan: no
    Bruce Mowbray: No, we're just chatting, please join us.
    Mellie McMinnar: may I join?
    Zon Kwan: please :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Please do, yes!
    Bruce Mowbray: Is it OK that we post whatever you say in the chat box in our on-line wiki, Mellie?
    Mellie McMinnar: sure.... if you feel like it
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: hah ha!
    Mellie McMinnar: it might be disappointing though
    Zon Kwan: why ?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, it is part of the terms of service of Linden Labs that we request your permission before we post anything, you understand.
    Bruce Mowbray: Have you just come from the courts, Mellie?
    Mellie McMinnar: 1. because I am not that smart, but I love to chat... and 2. yes, ok.... and 3. no... I just made this racket because it fits my outfit ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: The racket (as well as your outfit) is lovely.
    Mellie McMinnar: thank you :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Did you folks hear that Florida finally announced that Obama won that state?
    Mellie McMinnar: uhm, he is reelected already, so.... who cares?
    Zon Kwan: wasn't it settled already ?
    Bruce Mowbray: http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/10/15075460-obama-wins-florida-with-thin-margin-over-romney?lite
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, maybe the folks in Florida care....
    Mellie McMinnar: I don't think so
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: You mean that they waited in line for seven hours to vote -- and now they don't care?!
    Mellie McMinnar: they didn't care that every counting had a different outcome once
    Bruce Mowbray: Good point.
    Bruce Mowbray: and during that election they finally decided to stop counting altogether....
    Mellie McMinnar: hehe
    Bruce Mowbray: and the Supreme Court agreed with them.
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves,
    Zon Kwan: hi steve
    Mellie McMinnar: hello
    stevenaia Michinaga: how are things?  the retreat looks very busy
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Millie, Zon
    Bruce Mowbray: I was guessing that you'd be part of the retreat, steve.
    stevenaia Michinaga: If I had the time to commit I would but I am frightfully busy and I didn't want to be a drop in
    Bruce Mowbray: understood.


    Mellie McMinnar: I guess the conversations are corrected and censored?
    Zon Kwan: waves
    Bruce Mowbray: They are not 'corrected and censored' when I'm the GoC, as is the case here today.
    stevenaia Michinaga: where?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Qt!
    Qt Core: Hi all
    stevenaia Michinaga: I may spell-check now and then, not sure that counts as censorship
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Qt
    Bruce Mowbray: Looks like Zon has just departed our company.
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Qt!
    Mellie McMinnar: I wished so... because I make a lot of typos and I talk a lot of fucking penis shit fuck whore ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I also spell-check -- but only if I'm absolutely certain that the correction would be what the original speaker meant.
    Mellie McMinnar: hello Qt, and sorry, if you read this out of context ^^
    Bruce Mowbray: OH, Mellie!
    stevenaia Michinaga: I usually go back , find all my "*" so I can correct those
    Bruce Mowbray suspects that there are no dirty words, only dirty minds.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the "*'s" are a fine way to do the spell-check.
    Mellie McMinnar: oh yes
    Qt Core: np Mellie, i sometimes find chat English a lot too clean against everyday language (especially as English isn't my one)
    stevenaia Michinaga: no theme suggestion this week?
    Bruce Mowbray: None on the board today.
    Bruce Mowbray: Any suggestions, Steve?
    Mellie McMinnar: oh, are there theme suggestions? I so have to bookmark this place
    stevenaia Michinaga: well I've been attending many sessions lately since my GoC session on Wednesday where nobody else is here, so I play quietly
    Bruce Mowbray: The schedule board doesn't indicate any themes. . . but that shouldn't hold us back from discussing anything we wish to.
    stevenaia Michinaga: does Millie have any thoughts on the nature of reality?
    Bruce Mowbray: etc etc etc.
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
    Mellie McMinnar: ohoho... I am a physicist, so.... yes... a few ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh my..... That's great!
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, I bet
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...listens
    Bruce Mowbray: Or, perhaps there are multiple realities - - one for each universe.
    Mellie McMinnar: ok... how about the apocalypse?
    Bruce Mowbray: Which apocalypse, Mellie?
    Mellie McMinnar: people keep asking me about it
    Bruce Mowbray looks around for the arrival of four horsemen.
    Bruce Mowbray: How do you answer them, Mellie?
    Mellie McMinnar: well, that would be one scenario, Bruce ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: luckily that one was written after my book was closed
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Mellie McMinnar: I always answer that there is no danger in 2012... the world will NOT end.... but the climate change is a real thing that might hit us in 2100
    stevenaia Michinaga: so you only tell this to Democrats?
    Bruce Mowbray: or perhaps the climate change is already hitting us -- if you ask folks in New York and New Jersey, anyway -- or folks who once lived on low-lying islands who have already been relocated.
    stevenaia Michinaga: indeed
    Mellie McMinnar: huh?.... yes... I tell a totally different thing to Republicans
    Bruce Mowbray: (a prolonged Apocalypse?)
    Bruce Mowbray doesn't know any Republicans, actually.
    Bruce Mowbray: The self-other framework got quite a workout in our recent elections -- but now it is time to work together - - - lest we go over the cliff... and other things even worse.
    Mellie McMinnar: what most people don't understand is that the fact that the Antarctica is growing ice, is actually proof that the earth is getting warmer
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, similarly with really severe winter storms in the Northern Hemisphere.
    stevenaia Michinaga: growing ice, would that be colder then?
    Bruce Mowbray listens.


    Bruce Mowbray suspects that if Antarctica is actually growing, ice, it's because the sea level is rising.
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you a weather physicist?
    Mellie McMinnar: warmer means more evaporation of water.... that means more "rainfall"... and if it is cold, more snow.... and if snow falls onto the coast of an ice continent, it means more ice
    stevenaia Michinaga: wouldn't evaporation create more cooling?
    stevenaia Michinaga: remembering HS physics
    Mellie McMinnar: no... you cannot take more energy out of the system
    Mellie McMinnar: where did Bruce go?
    stevenaia Michinaga: poof
    Mellie McMinnar: I liked him :(
    stevenaia Michinaga: he evaporated because of the heat
    Mellie McMinnar: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect he will return
    Mellie McMinnar: you see, shit is becoming real! ^^
    Mellie McMinnar: do you guys know Neil Degrasse Tyson?

    Bruce (in absencia):  Neil DeGrasse Tyson is one of my all-time favorite people.  His PBS series, NOVA Science Now, is not-to-be-missed: https://www.google.com/search?q=Neil+DeGrasse+Tyson&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    stevenaia Michinaga: no
    Qt Core: yes quite funny too (I'm a non observant amateur astronomer)
    stevenaia Michinaga: his very own Wiki Page
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have heard him interviewed on the radio
    Mellie McMinnar: you should..... he is the entertainer of astrophysics.... he looks nice.... and he has a fun way to explain stuff in a way that everybody can understand it
    stevenaia Michinaga: the originator of this group is also an astrophysist
    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: TY!
    Mellie McMinnar: btw: what is this group about? I am a bit confused.... it looks like a yoga club but it is more like Mensa with less arrogant people
    Bruce Mowbray: Sorry, but my satellite ISP blanked out for a moment.
    Mellie McMinnar: Bruce!... I missed you
    Bruce Mowbray: TY, Mellie!
    Qt Core: wb Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: This group is about anything we WANT it to be about.
    stevenaia Michinaga: there are notecards nearby, let me got one for you
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Steve.
    Mellie McMinnar: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: My personal preference is that this be a laboratory of personal experience....
    Bruce Mowbray: and an open sharing of same....
    Mellie McMinnar: I like the laboratory and the sharing part
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: But that sort of sharing also implies that we do not judge each others' experiences.
    Bruce Mowbray: we present ourselves as open audiences to others' experience.
    stevenaia Michinaga: learn by listening, not ripping each other to shreds :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
    stevenaia Michinaga: although there are other groups for that :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: many, from what I understand
    Bruce Mowbray: Disagreement is perfectly fine! In fact, it is required, if we are to be honest to our own experience.
    Bruce Mowbray: But that is a different thing from ripping each other to sheds.
    Mellie McMinnar: thank you for the NC
    stevenaia Michinaga: in fact, we may be unique in that regard
    Bruce Mowbray: I apologize for not giving you one earlier, Mellie.
    Mellie McMinnar: hey, I just rezzed in here.... np
    stevenaia Michinaga: is this your first time here M?
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if individuals rip themselves to shreds when they have strange dreams or imagine strange things.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I never had
    Mellie McMinnar: In fact I came here because I was disappointed by someone who had "metaphysics" in his name and just was an idiot... so I looked for philosophy places
    Bruce Mowbray somehow got the idea that Mellie had been here before.... but nevertheless got her permission to post in the wiki, anyway.


    Mellie McMinnar: I have never been here before
    Bruce Mowbray: "We" (well, some of us, anyway) tend to lean toward a phenomenological way of viewing the world (and now will "drop" for 90 secs.... sry.)
    Mellie McMinnar: drop?
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh!
    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome! Mellie
    Bruce Mowbray: Every 15 minutes, we "drop" what we "have" to observe what we "are."
    Bruce Mowbray: That's the slogan, anyway.
    Bruce Mowbray: But what "dropping" entails, exactly, is a subject of much debate.
    Bruce Mowbray: The drops are for 90 seconds...
    stevenaia Michinaga: so that's why things change hare every 15 minutes at the bell, to remind you to stop talking and observe
    Bruce Mowbray: every 15 minutes.
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers!
    Bruce Mowbray: "Observe" both inwardly and outwardly....
    stevenaia Michinaga: the bell rings, the fountain changes and the ring behind you gets red
    stevenaia Michinaga: a sort meditation , if you will
    Mellie McMinnar: oooookkkk...... I am willing to drop my question of who I am every fifteen minutes for 90 seconds... because it makes sense
    Bruce Mowbray: Sorry -- I lowered the fountain earlier so I could see folks.
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes we focus on a topic for 90 seconds and chat about what arises
    Bruce Mowbray: "Dropping" is one way of letting the usual "frames" dissolve....
    Bruce Mowbray: in order to "see" our worlds in a new way... perhaps.
    Mellie McMinnar: any topic deserves more than that.... more like 90 days. but I am ok with rituals
    Bruce Mowbray: Dropping is a sort of ritual, yes.
    stevenaia Michinaga: 90seconds every 15 minutes does eventually equal 90 days :) (do the math)
    Bruce Mowbray: We've been doing this for almost four years, now....
    Bruce Mowbray: As you will note in the notecard, Mellie, all of our chat logs are posted in a wiki.
    Mellie McMinnar: ok, let's drop it.... but.... what happens if you find a topic really interesting?
    Bruce Mowbray: Then by all means continue to discuss it!
    Qt Core: and it is suggested to keep doing it in rl too but only 9 sec every 15 min
    Bruce Mowbray: after the drop.
    Mellie McMinnar: yeah, I got that Bruce.... it's your own fault ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: I have MANY faults, Mellie!
    Mellie McMinnar: who hasn't
    Mellie McMinnar: wait... is the "drop" over?
    Bruce Mowbray: My own perception of "dropping" is that it is a way of letting my thoughts have me -- rather than my having those thoughts.
    Mellie McMinnar: ah..... ok
    Bruce Mowbray: Dropping, in that sense, is a sort of surrender to what "is."
    Bruce Mowbray: .... without needing to have some agenda for it.
    Bruce Mowbray: and for just 90 secs, that's no biggie.
    Bruce Mowbray: May I also suggest that you visit the Dome, Mellie.
    Mellie McMinnar: well but that is exactly what we are doing all the time..... what am I supposed during this ritual? and for how long?
    Bruce Mowbray: During the 90 sec drops?
    Mellie McMinnar: sure
    Bruce Mowbray: You "drop" whatever you "have" -- and that will most likely be something different for everyone who drops.
    Bruce Mowbray: I drop my hangups...
    Bruce Mowbray: my prejudices and preferences...
    Bruce Mowbray: and my usual ways of viewing the world.
    Bruce Mowbray: (if I can!)
    Bruce Mowbray: Drop whatever you want to drop, actually.
    Mellie McMinnar: ok... I would like to try and drop my anger the next time
    Bruce Mowbray: That's an excellent place to start, Mellie.
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, exactly, a fast learner :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: And when you drop it, as I often feel in my own experience, you might find some underlying "causes" for the anger....
    stevenaia Michinaga: just let go, hehe , easy words not so easy to do
    Bruce Mowbray: some "frames" ----
    Bruce Mowbray: and then you (I, actually) drop those...
    Bruce Mowbray: and so on....
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, "letting go" -- an excellent way to put it.
    Bruce Mowbray: The world will most likely keep on "going" whether we let it go or not.
    Mellie McMinnar: you guys are totally Buddhists :) without the reincarnation stuff...... did that sound intelligent? no.....sorry
    Bruce Mowbray: I am not a Buddhist, actually.


    Bruce Mowbray: If some sort of label is required, I call myself a "Pantheist-Taoist" - - - - a follower of the "Watercourse Way" (from a book title by Alan Watts.)
    Bruce Mowbray: but I'd prefer not to have any labels.
    stevenaia Michinaga: not a Buddhist either, although I know many (some are very angry Buddhists)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Jewish-Taoist here
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Mellie McMinnar: well, Buddha taught about the same thing..... but he believed in reincarnation... because that was an absolutely natural thing at his time.... but his lessons were about "why are we unhappy" and "what can we do to change that"
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel that those labels really don't attend to the inward vision -- They are mostly for explaining ourselves to others.... but really not explaining at all, if you get my meaning.
    Mellie McMinnar: oh, never met a Taoist
    Bruce Mowbray: I really don't think that the Buddha DID "believe" in reincarnation -- although I'm certainly not an expert in that stuff.
    Bruce Mowbray: Buddha said to trust your own experience....
    Bruce Mowbray: and if that includes a sense of "reincarnation," then, so be it.
    Bruce Mowbray: You've met a Taoist now, Mellie!
    Bruce Mowbray drops that label as soon as he found it clinging to himself.
    Mellie McMinnar: well, Buddha made everything of his lessons about reincarnation... but I am a fan of Laotse too
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes!
    Bruce Mowbray: and Chuang Tse.
    Mellie McMinnar: I have read many version of the Tao Te Ching .... but I didn't understand any version
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Every leaf will do as well.
    Bruce Mowbray: Every blade of grass will do as well as a full library of texts.
    Bruce Mowbray: and now it is time for me to seek din-din....
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you all for your company today.
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Bruce
    Mellie McMinnar: and if you believe that you understand it, you are just at the beginning
    Qt Core: Bye Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: and Mellie, I do hope you will find your way back here. I look forward to hearing much more of your thoughts.
    Mellie McMinnar: bb
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now!
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, every 6 hours a session is hosted here (or not) check the board for a hosted session
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes people just show up
    Mellie McMinnar: well, as I said, I showed up here by accident.... and I am happy I did :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for visiting, join us again, anytime, explore the groups Wiki
    stevenaia Michinaga: thre are no accidents :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hope to see you again
    stevenaia Michinaga: Tbye Qt
    Mellie McMinnar: I love your virtual skirt, btw
    Qt Core: bye Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles (I have a personal shopper, stick around and I will introduce oyu)
    Mellie McMinnar: ok... have a good time
    Mellie McMinnar: ;)
    Mellie McMinnar: so, what do we do now?
    Qt Core: formally the session ended (but there are cases of session continuing for hours)
    Qt Core: i was just going to logging out
    Mellie McMinnar: that isn't really an answer ;) but ok..... you could stay for another hour and talk to me though
    Qt Core: :-)
    Mellie McMinnar: If you like


    Qt Core: sadly I'm a little too sleepy to have a coherent conversation , maybe another time
    Mellie McMinnar: you totally broke the rules.... you are a rebel ;)
    Qt Core: ;) I'm in a heretic sect, i say that the breaks are to be made when you feel the need-  not when the clock tells you
    Qt Core: (especially the rl ones)
    Mellie McMinnar: I am with you :)
    Mellie McMinnar: have a nice sleep and sweet dreams about awesome stuff
    Qt Core: :-) thank you and have a nice tennis match ;-)
    Mellie McMinnar: ^^
    Mellie McMinnar: now I am all alone

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