2012.11.18 08:00 - Guardians Session: Dropping on Saturday and Filling Up on Sunday

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    Attending today's guardians session were Bleu, Aphrodite, Bruce, Wol, Druth, and Eliza


    Weekly topics:

    - Filling Up (the flip side of dropping?)
    - Hindsight 
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Aoy, Wol!
    Wol Euler: venetian pirate!
    Wol Euler: hello bruce
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Ahoy, Eliza!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Ahoy
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Ahoy, Bleu!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hi all :)
    Wol Euler: brb
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hope you all are well - I seem to be shifting gears slowly so hope I won't bring confessional tone to guardian meeting
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) thinks Bleu is making a strong fashion statement.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) yes
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): haha!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Well, then, shame on you for not being confeswsional, Eliza!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): or even confessional . . .
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): btw did you see the Venice flooding pics?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): amazing
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): They are incredible... and sad.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Aph will be upset.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :(
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maybe we'll be a small group today
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Has the flooding gone down yet, does anyone know?
    Wol Euler: hello all
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): don't know Bruce
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Ahoy, Wol!
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): wb Wol
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there isn't too much to talk about really - topics, beginning to brainstorm for the PaB birthday party, and the note card changes for the group
    Wol Euler: good god, a metre and a half of water. I doubt if there is a single square metre of pavement that is that far above sea level
    Wol Euler: except the train station
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): The tourists appear strangely happy about it.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, not sure if i would have been swimming in it :)
    Wol Euler: it's an adventure! and they probably get x% of their money back
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes, I agree.
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) checks to see if other guardians are in-world. . . .
    Wol Euler: aggers won't be coming, she has to work today
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): No other but we four, it appears.
    Wol Euler: give it until 8:10?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) well maybe a short meeting - which would be OK
    Wol Euler: then we can race ahead :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hah
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): ok with me :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): sure!
    Wol Euler: while we are waiting, thank you for putting up the in-world retreat page, Eliza
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Oh, weren't San's pictures lovely?
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I might not have remembered to do that if not for her messaging to ask where to place them
    Wol Euler: a great effort all around
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): were you all happy with the retreat?
    Wol Euler: oh yes
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it was wonderful, yes
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): nice!
    Wol Euler: itÄ's different to RL, but just as worth-while
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes, I appreciated your sharing the even t with those of us who couldn't come.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it felt 'easy'... peaceful... natural... ordinary and nice
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: very direct, very connected
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): lovely :)
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): would be nice to do more of these... one day long ones for instance
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: good idea
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): regular retreat tastes
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): in some sense, pab itself is supposed to be like that? hah...and it is... but maybe there are ways to drop deeper and deeper
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): after dropping deeper and deeper are there ways to "fill up" again in a more meaningful way?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): without flooding....
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: filling is easy, avoiding the flood is the hard bit
    Wol Euler: the filling comes naturally, unfortunately (in my experience)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): filling is hard if consider in a meaningful way
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the heedless filling that so easily squeezes other things out....?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): perhaps a subject for PaB?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) ponders "Let yourself be filled. . . " similar to let yourself be seen.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal) smiles
     
    Wol Euler: yes, RL comes flooding back in, with its apointments and dirty dishes etc; it would be desirable to hold on to the feeling of calm and peace for a while, at least overnight
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): so how does one add in again in a thoughtful way, keeping the calm and peace for longer?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the dishes are always there, but they are different dishes stacked in different ways, with a different mind being with them
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, notion of different mind ... an interesting one
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hot soapy mind
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): ha!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ;-)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ;-)
    Wol Euler grins.
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): do retreats change minds?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hmmm
    Wol Euler: reshape them subtly, perhaps
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) ponders, "Clean mind - Clean body -- Take your pick."
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): remind of more connected mind available maybe
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): when minds connect back to rl are the connects changed somewhat?
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I recall a few retreats that changed my mind a whole lot.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): or only temporarily?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): good questions
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): are lasting changes possible?
    Wol Euler: always :)
    Wol Euler: for any impetus :)
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Perhaps the only thing that DOES last is change itself.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): for me sometimes it is like shifting gears - a retreat can tap into many previous retreats... and in a sense it is always there - always available
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: it reminds you of that piece of better self, Better Mind, that is in there somewhere with all the junk and dirty dishes
    Wol Euler: so you can take it out and use it once in a while
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ;-)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal) smiles
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): easy to use in a retreat ... harder to use in rl
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Here comes Aph.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so how to make this question a topic....
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): transition from retreat to rl?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hey Aph :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Aph!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Ahoy, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: ahoy Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry to be late
    Wol Euler: hello aph
    Wol Euler: you missed the singing mice! they were great.
    Aphrodite Macbain: not too many of us...
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): no, not too many
    Aphrodite Macbain: singing mice?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: singing the Christmas song?
    Wol Euler: yes, them
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu - you are black and Woly has new pants
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): change is fun
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): "If the meditator is able to use whatever occurs in his life as the Path, his body becomes a retreat hut."
     -Jigme Lingpa
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): is there a "the Path"?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well this line suggests for each it would be his own I think....
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): picking up this and that
    Wol Euler: for certain values of "the" and "Path", perhaps
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Is there any "Path" that is not perfect, then?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): a no-mistakes path
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): so all of one's life is one's path?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes, but that doesn't mean we hold it that way...
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): seems true of hindsight
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): If Dharma Gates are infinite. . . then every experience along the "path" is potentially a Dharma Gate.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): mmm "hindsight" is a good topic :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes
     
    Aphrodite Macbain: a path that avoids the big bad wolf and gets you straight to grandmother's house?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I like "hindsight" as a topic.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): linear?
    Wol Euler: like walking along a beach after sunset, seeing the hundreds or thousands of footprinted paths walking along the shore
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): (Especially at this time of year....)
    Wol Euler: none overlapping, but all going more or less the same way
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I suspect that they would be going in many different directions
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) ponders possible benefits of encountering wolves.... rather than grandmothers.
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hindsight related to our earlier conversation about review and starting over
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): wolfy grandmothers
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hint: related to the next ARt of Being project for December :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): who may seem ferocious but have best interest at heart
    Wol Euler: oooh
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): What big teeth you have, grandmother!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Bruce, I am reading the book you are reading btw....
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): hiya Druth
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Ahoy, druth!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey druth
    druth Vlodovic: hey
    Wol Euler: hello druth
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): in that book he doesn't so much regret anything yet in a way makes a quick shift to a new path
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Night Train to Lisbon ?????
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I just finished it this morning!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) Oh, well shhh... I'm on chapter 11 or so...
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): and will begin reading it again tonight. . . after Quaker Meeting.
    Aphrodite Macbain: haven't heard of it. who wrote it?
    Wol Euler: no spoilers
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): A WONDERFUL book!
    Aphrodite Macbain: again? why?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what I've said doesn't give too much away but if one imagines all the different trains in the world, going so many different places... it reminded me of Wol's footprints analogy
     
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Written by a French philosopher, in German, about a Swiss teacher, visiting Portugal.
    Aphrodite Macbain: about fining our own paths?
    Aphrodite Macbain: translated into English
    Aphrodite Macbain: Author?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yes, all of that -- plus translated into English so Eliza and I could read it.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): googling
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Pascal Mercier
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I move that we table the note card discussion for the next guardian session btw :)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): a Grove Press book.
    Wol Euler: seconded
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): 2nd
    Aphrodite Macbain: thirded
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): kk.
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so topics and if anyone has any seeds to begin working with for the party - 5th !
    Wol Euler: in April?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): march 31
    Wol Euler: right
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ty Bruce
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yw.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): march 31 because it's a sunday, spilling over to april 1st :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): March 31st sounds ideal, then.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): somehow parties are better on sundays than mondays :)
    Wol Euler: how about a one day retreat on the saturday before?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) this is true
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): nice Wol :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oooh, that's a nice idea Wol
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Excellent idea, Wol.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how fitting
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice idea Wol
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): dropping on sat and filling up on sun :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Maybe some of the retreat will spill over into the party which then spills over into the actual anniversary....
    Wol Euler: exactly!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): could have basically the same format as this last retreat did on a saturday - 2 - 2 hr meetings
    Wol Euler nods.
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): so maybe a theme of visions for the next 5 years?
     
    druth Vlodovic: it would be nice if some of the party were on the 1st, if only to fit my work schedule :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): aw :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): a reflection on the past 5 and then visions for the next 5?
    Aphrodite Macbain: we should definitley party on the first anyway
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, 2 days of party
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I like that idea Bleu - but then I love visioning in general
     
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd be happy to help with the festivities
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yay Aph!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): would love to glean intuitions from others about pab in the next 5 years
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    druth Vlodovic: let me know if there is anything you'd like done
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) Ty Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: I will druth
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks, nice :D
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would work with a team anyway
    Aphrodite Macbain: New ideas are what we need
     
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): could put out a request for planning team volunteers?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, good idea
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal) nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would need to send out some job descriptions...
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I'm going to have to go early today.... do we have two topics? "hindsight" and "?"
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah hindsight- nice
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): "Re-filling"?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): "filling up"?
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): snap
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yeah.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, great... hah....
    Wol Euler: yep
    Aphrodite Macbain: and refilling
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
     
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how to phrase those so they translate to everyone....
    Aphrodite Macbain: whispers: what do we run out of ?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): (impossible task - topic of a lifetime)
    Wol Euler grins.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): dropping and then adding?
    Aphrodite Macbain: what do we learn from hindsight?
    druth Vlodovic: I thought we just tossed words out and let people play with them
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) :) :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): play is good!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Yeah, let the answers emerge. . .
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes, we do that but for those who are disoriented by that we try to give more words
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hehhe
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): along with more questions....
    druth Vlodovic: lol
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes, more questions!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ;-)
     
    Aphrodite Macbain: questions get one thinking
    Aphrodite Macbain: ignorance is the way
    Aphrodite Macbain: according to the book I'm reading
    Aphrodite Macbain: asking the right questions...
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): Ignorance?
    Wol Euler: "ignorance" is a loaded word .....
    Wol Euler: say "enlightened un-knowing" instead :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): great new book that Pema recommended
    Wol Euler listens.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray) listens
    Aphrodite Macbain: enlightened un-knowing
    Wol Euler: aha
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): little book.. easy to read, sparky
    Aphrodite Macbain: that's the book I'm reading
    Wol Euler looks.
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): :)
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): seems so many books are coming at the same things
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): I read it ... very interesting
    Aphrodite Macbain: an easy read- it even mentions pema
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Piet Hut
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): liked his phrase "revision in progress"
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Another current book also mentions Piet: "The New Humanists"
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): interesting
    Wol Euler: a brush with fame :)
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): john Brockman's book?
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hah...
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) I have to go... lovely to see you all
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yes, Brockman.
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): yes, good book too
    Aphrodite Macbain: byee eliza
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I also need to go.
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): wish you a wonderful day
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Thanks, everyone!
    Eliza (eliza.madrigal): bfn
    Bleu (bleu.oleander): bye Eliza and all
    Wol Euler: bye bruce, bye bleu
     
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    The last paragraph of Suzuki Roshi's "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" says it very well about dropping and filling: "We must have beginner's mind, free from possessing anything [that's the dropping part], a mind that knows everything is in flowing change. Nothing exists but momentarily in its present form and colour. One thing flows into another and cannot be grasped. Before the rain stops we hear a bird. Even under the heavy snow we see snowdrops and some new growth. In the East I saw rhubarb already. In Japan in the spring we eat cucumbers."

    Now read the last page of Ulysses :-)
    Posted 00:37, 20 Nov 2012
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