2012.11.25 07:00 - Just a Process

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The photos and comments are by Bleu Oleander.




    while sitting in the dark, was happy to see Zon and later Zen arrive for conversation .....


    Zon Kwan: hi bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi Zon :)
    Zon Kwan: how are you today ?
    Bleu Oleander: great, u?
    Zon Kwan: good
    Zon Kwan: quiet here ?
    Bleu Oleander: quiet morning here yes
    Bleu Oleander: what brings you here?
    Zon Kwan: hm
    Zon Kwan: i always come when i have time
    Bleu Oleander: that's nice, me too
    Zon Kwan: is this your session ?
    Bleu Oleander: how long have you been coming to PaB?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zon Kwan: hm..long
    Zon Kwan: dont even remember
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zon Kwan: years
    Bleu Oleander: for me too
    Zon Kwan: good place to come to think
    Bleu Oleander: where are you in the world?
    Zon Kwan: and chat
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zon Kwan: and to clean inventory
    Bleu Oleander: ha! yes need to do that :)
    Zon Kwan: have you been in those rl sessions ?
    Bleu Oleander: PaB in RL? no
    Bleu Oleander: have you?
    Zon Kwan: no
    Bleu Oleander: tempting to go
    Zon Kwan: must be nice though
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zon Kwan: mostly university people ?
    Bleu Oleander: hmmm
    Bleu Oleander: not sure
    Zon Kwan: many that i have met are
    Zon Kwan: you are not ?
    Bleu Oleander: no
    Zon Kwan: me neither
    Zon Kwan: thx :)
    Bleu Oleander: yw!
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Bleu Oleander: what are your interests in sl?
    Zon Kwan: mind
    Bleu Oleander: as in your own?
    Bleu Oleander: what aspects?
    Zon Kwan: all
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Bleu Oleander: do you enjoy reading about that subject?
    Zon Kwan: oh yes
    Zon Kwan: and in sl you can do much more
    Bleu Oleander: what are some of your favorite books?
    Zon Kwan: i love alan watts
    Bleu Oleander: ah ok, haven't read any of his
    Zon Kwan: have your heard his talks ?
    Zon Kwan: you can find on web
    Bleu Oleander: yes

    Bleu Oleander: i'll check it out
    Zon Kwan: he was one of the first who made indian philosophies and buddhims and zen to west in understadable way
    Bleu Oleander: what are some of his main ideas?
    Bleu Oleander: what does he say about mind?
    Zon Kwan: i think he is into zen
    Bleu Oleander: you also?
    Zon Kwan: zen is purest
    Zon Kwan: but to understand it
    Zon Kwan: one needs to understand other religions and philosophies
    Zon Kwan: i like how he is playful
    Bleu Oleander: good subjects to investigate
    Zon Kwan: not serious at all
    Zon Kwan: and still goes deeper
    Zon Kwan: than most
    Zon Kwan: what about you ?
    Bleu Oleander: I haven't investigated any zen philosophies very much
    Bleu Oleander: but seems interesting
    Bleu Oleander: i'll listen to some of his talks
    Zon Kwan: what are your interests in sl ?
    Bleu Oleander: I like to build and create art in sl
    Bleu Oleander: I like making machinimas also
    Zon Kwan: machinimas ?
    Bleu Oleander: videos made with computers in virtual worlds
    Zon Kwan: wow
    Zon Kwan: i cant do any of those
    Bleu Oleander: http://www.youtube.com/user/BleuOleander?feature=mhee
    Bleu Oleander: for later :)
    Zon Kwan: makes a note
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zon Kwan: zen !
    Zen Arado: Hi Bleu, Zon
    Zon Kwan: we were just talking of you






    Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen :)
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Zen Arado: heh
    Zon Kwan: how is your day ?
    Bleu Oleander: we were talking about Alan Watts
    Zen Arado: ah yes
    Zen Arado: I like his books
    Zon Kwan: ahe is best at tapes
    Bleu Oleander: i'm not that familiar with him
    Bleu Oleander: but will listen to his talks
    Zon Kwan: fantastic leturer
    Zen Arado: 'The Wisdom of Insecurity' is a great little book
    Zen Arado: he was a character
    Zen Arado: a bit wild
    Bleu Oleander: is there anything you don't like about what he says?
    Zon Kwan: and also "The Book"
    Zen Arado: yes..just read that
    Zen Arado: and I am reading 'The Watercourse way'
    Zen Arado: on Taoism
    Zen Arado: he was very clever
    Zon Kwan: yes
    Zon Kwan: hits the nail in the head
    Zen Arado: started off as an Englis minister in Christianity
    Bleu Oleander: nail?
    Zon Kwan: just a phrase..lol
    Zen Arado: an idiom lol
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Zon Kwan: sees the core
    Zen Arado: hit a nail on the head
    Bleu Oleander: core of Taoism?
    Zen Arado: right on the matk
    Bleu Oleander: of what?
    Zen Arado: I haven'r got farwith it
    Zen Arado: trying to read too many books at the same time as usual
    Zon Kwan: lol
    Bleu Oleander: me too haha!
    Bleu Oleander: bad habit
    Zon Kwan: my bad habit also
    Zen Arado: it starts slowly about Chinese language
    Zen Arado: how we should be using chnesde ideograms
    Bleu Oleander: why?
    Zen Arado: they convey so much information so succinctly
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Bleu Oleander: interesting

    Zen Arado: actually normal language has two stages
    Zen Arado: it is written down sounds
    Zen Arado: whereas Chinese ideograms are pictorial only
    Zon Kwan: interesting
    Bleu Oleander: words and letters are pictures too in a sense
    Zen Arado: yes but our language originated in sounds
    Bleu Oleander: didn't all language?
    Zen Arado: so we then have to represent sounds in writing
    Zen Arado: apparently Chinese didn't
    Zon Kwan: never thot that
    Bleu Oleander: they represent sounds with pictures?
    Zen Arado: I'll see if I can find that in the book
    Bleu Oleander: interesting, i'll check out his talks on line
    Zon Kwan: sounds can be symbols
    Zon Kwan: like pictures
    Zon Kwan: or words
    Bleu Oleander: its all about conveying meaning from one mind to the next
    Zon Kwan: thinks so
    Zon Kwan: why else
    Zen Arado: 'The ear cannot detect as many variables at the same time as the eye, for sound is a slower vibration than light. Alphabetic writing is a representation of sound, whereas the ideogram represents vision and, furthermore, represents the world directly—not being a sign for a sound which is the name of a thing. As for names, the sound “bird” has nothing in it that reminds one of a bird, and for some reason it would strike us as childish to substitute more direct names, such as tweetie, powee, or quark. Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 435-439). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
    Zen Arado: he also talks about how European languages structure our thought patterns
    Bleu Oleander: I think all language does that
    Zen Arado: 'The supposition that knowing requires a knower is based on a linguistic and not an existential rule, as becomes obvious when we consider that raining needs no rainer and clouding no clouder. Thus when a Chinese receives a formal invitation, he may reply simply with the word “Know Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 397-399). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: "me" "doing"
    Zon Kwan: although it just happens
    Zen Arado: yes
    Bleu Oleander: knowing is a process, raining is a process
    Zen Arado: this is all a prelude to the Tao because it was writtten in Chinese
    Bleu Oleander: ah so depends also on translations of course
    Zen Arado: our language structures us into splitting reality into subjects and objects
    Zen Arado: a sort of unconscious conditioning
    Bleu Oleander: so if we don't think in Chinese can we really "know" what is being said?
    Zon Kwan: he has a nice way to put it: how can a noun (me) start a process (verb: doing)
    Zen Arado: don't know but it helps of we are aware of that conditioning I think
    Bleu Oleander: me is a noun in a language sense but a symbol for what "I" call myself
    Zen Arado: it's all verbing in a sense
    Bleu Oleander: the construction of "I" or "me" is a process too
    Zen Arado: lots of authors mention this
    Zen Arado: it's useful
    Zen Arado: but creates a false impression
    Zon Kwan: yes but in sentence you have usually someone who does something

    Zen Arado: and it's all just a process
    Zon Kwan: thats the way lagueage conditions thinking
    Bleu Oleander: "just a process" ... pretty amazing if you really think about it

    Zon Kwan: hehehe
    Zen Arado: seeing is a process that needs three things

    Bleu Oleander: seeing is a very complex process, turning the raw sense information entering our eyes and turning it into something meaningful ... seeing with the mind :)
    Bleu Oleander: well I must go
    Bleu Oleander: thank you both for an interesting conversation
    Zen Arado: that is the scientific explanation
    Bleu Oleander: a lot to think about today
    Bleu Oleander: take care
    Zen Arado: kk
    Bleu Oleander: have a great day
    Zen Arado: byee Bleu and Zon :)
    Zen Arado: you too
    Bleu Oleander: bye Zen and Zon :)

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    ♪ ♫ "mi" a name, I call myself ♩ ♬
    Posted 19:04, 25 Nov 2012
    lovely 0 !!
    ty !
    Posted 19:30, 25 Nov 2012
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