2012.11.25 19:00 - What's it Like to be You, in Your Lifeworld?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Lucinda Lavender: hello
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cinda
    Lucinda Lavender: hi cal:)
    Lucinda Lavender: I am kind of tired at the moment but sort of here...
    Calvino Rabeni: :) I'm glad to hear it!
    Calvino Rabeni: (and, it sounds like a very re-usable description for most of my life)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: what is new?
    Calvino Rabeni: New .. hmm, I was in "The internet" a lot lately, but that's not new
    Lucinda Lavender: ah
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, one thing that's been around forever, but I never paid much attention to before today, the personality types of Myers and Briggs
    Lucinda Lavender: ah
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you had friends into that?
    Lucinda Lavender: one of my favorite pastimes in the 80's and 90's
    Lucinda Lavender: me
    Calvino Rabeni: Yours :)
    Calvino Rabeni: aha
    Lucinda Lavender: well it was so useful in understanding people who are more outwardly focussed and those who focus more on internal images and impressions
    Lucinda Lavender: this was a huge thing...
    Calvino Rabeni: I got a bit confused about the distinctions with the last letter of it ..
    Lucinda Lavender: learning that we are different and will respond so differently
    Lucinda Lavender: j and p Judging and perceiving
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a good thing to have a way to organize one's thoughts about, differences
    Lucinda Lavender: well it is confusing because when you look at the type as a last letter it refers to what people show as a lifestyle preferance
    Catrinamonblue Resident: hi :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: hi :)
    Calvino Rabeni: ok J and P ... so there's Perceiving, but then there's another one that includes Sensing, and so why is there a Sensing and a Perceiving when they appear somewhat synonymous?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Catrina :)
    Lucinda Lavender: and if they are intro verted they show the auxilliary function to the world not the dominent
    Lucinda Lavender: hi atrina:)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: what are we talking about?
    Lucinda Lavender: well...perceiving is how you organize life but sensing is how you gather information
    Lucinda Lavender: as a perceiver I like more info...
    Lucinda Lavender: as a sense I use my sense to understand
    Lucinda Lavender: as a perceiver I will wait to decide
    Calvino Rabeni: I see, the second one is more about a style of engagement, its a relational kind of thing?
    Lucinda Lavender: as a sense I will dominently gather info through the senses
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Lucinda Lavender: so...this was the hardest part to understand just what you are asking about
    Lucinda Lavender: but introverts will send an alternate to the door to meet the world
    Calvino Rabeni: Catrina, we have been talking about Myers Briggs scheme for ideas about perrsonality
    Calvino Rabeni: that's interesting
    Lucinda Lavender: the extroverts will go to the door themselves
    Calvino Rabeni: nods, that seems funny somehow
    Calvino Rabeni: like what an introvert sends to the door is their avatar
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: exactly:)
    Lucinda Lavender: well put
    Calvino Rabeni: and is that to safeguard the main self in some way ... the one that stays home?

    Lucinda Lavender: well for the Intro they are focussing more on inner ideas and impressions first then applying them to the world...and for the extra they focus outwardly morethen bring the info in and examine then go to looking out again
    Catrinamonblue Resident: going to have to go sorry
    Catrinamonblue Resident: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Cat !
    Paradise Tennant: good nite catrina
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Paradise !
    Lucinda Lavender: sorry if I was to explainey...you asked one thing I happen to have studied
    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal hiya luci
    Lucinda Lavender: hiya Para
    Calvino Rabeni: oho ! /me hits the jackpot :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: E and I are about direction of energy
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes you speak of it in a definitive way
    Paradise Tennant: listening to the first yell .. of fas as they pour out of the sky dome ..Toronto won the Grey Cup :) should be loud for about an hour I suspect :)
    Paradise Tennant: listening
    Lucinda Lavender: sensing and intuition are about how we get info,
    Lucinda Lavender: thinking and feeling are about how we judge/ logic vs value
    Calvino Rabeni: and...
    Lucinda Lavender: and judgeing and perceiving are about the lifestyle preferance
    Lucinda Lavender: congratulations on your grey cup:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there a reason for the order those four polarities are presented?
    Lucinda Lavender: that I do not know except it seems just make sense
    Lucinda Lavender: I think people change as they develop different parts of them selves
    Lucinda Lavender: with age there is exploration
    Lucinda Lavender: especially for p's
    Lucinda Lavender: being one I think I see that
    Calvino Rabeni: I'd guess there's a system of relationship analysis built on this theory too
    Lucinda Lavender: and a somewhat extraverted P
    Lucinda Lavender: I used to have many books on it but have leant them out some of them
    Lucinda Lavender: There was one called 16 Men
    Calvino Rabeni: I did one of those automated tests, but it seemed to me that the scores were balanced around the mid-points
    Calvino Rabeni: yet they still get labeled one way of the other - the balance information gets forgotten during the type labeling
    Lucinda Lavender: nodding

    Editor's Note: Apropos of this, I found the following in the wikipedia article:

    For example, some researchers expected that scores would show a bimodal distribution with peaks near the ends of the scales, but found that scores on the individual subscales were actually distributed in a centrally peaked manner similar to a normal distribution. A cut-off exists at the center of the subscale such that a score on one side is classified as one type, and a score on the other side as the opposite type. This fails to support the concept of type: the norm is for people to lie near the middle of the subscale

    Paradise Tennant: hiya san
    Santoshima Resident: hiya
    Lucinda Lavender: hi san!
    Calvino Rabeni: Evening Santoshima :)
    Lucinda Lavender: pretty dress Para!
    Santoshima Resident: evening ... listening to catch a wave
    Paradise Tennant: nods thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Santoshima Resident: hi Stevenaia
    Calvino Rabeni: Catch a wave?
    Calvino Rabeni: ... and you're sitting on top of the world?
    Santoshima Resident: umm, a drift
    Calvino Rabeni: Good eve, stevenaia
    Santoshima Resident: adrift on a wave
    Paradise Tennant: smiles listening to sixto
    Paradise Tennant: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL822D4C7AD3BFD536
    Paradise Tennant: hiya stev

    Paradise Tennant: luci did not mean to interrupt what you were saying was really interesting
    Lucinda Lavender: I had spoken with eliza some time ago about arranging a dream circle
    Lucinda Lavender: and I want to put it out to everyone that I have not forgotten this idea
    Santoshima Resident: oh great
    Lucinda Lavender: sorry bell.
    Paradise Tennant: sorry bell
    Play as Being 15 minute bell: Don't worry 'bout a thing, everything cool
    Lucinda Lavender: I would like to see about doing it in and evening
    Paradise Tennant: not sure I have ever been in a formal dream circle
    Santoshima Resident: nor have I
    Lucinda Lavender: it is not all that formal
    Calvino Rabeni: "Come as you are"
    Lucinda Lavender: yes do that !
    Calvino Rabeni: no tux required
    Santoshima Resident: phew
    Lucinda Lavender: I was thinking that you guys seem like a good group to experiment with it:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Luci the Mad Scientist...hmm
    Lucinda Lavender: and what you do is bring either a short dream or an image from a dream
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Santoshima Resident: one image?
    Santoshima Resident: can do
    Calvino Rabeni: Or one scene, I think
    Lucinda Lavender: well am imagining that if the image/es seem related for a reason it could be more
    Lucinda Lavender: yes a scene
    Calvino Rabeni: Oftimes that's all I can recall
    Lucinda Lavender: and for simplicity sake...listen to the images in sucession then start over at the first...giving it one round
    Lucinda Lavender: then dream 2 one round
    Lucinda Lavender: etc
    Santoshima Resident: one round of .... what?
    Santoshima Resident: discussion?
    Lucinda Lavender: commenting on the dream/image
    Santoshima Resident: Q&A?
    Santoshima Resident: oh ok
    Lucinda Lavender: not question...just impression
    Santoshima Resident: right
    Lucinda Lavender: because the turns go round the circle
    Lucinda Lavender: not across
    Santoshima Resident: i see
    Lucinda Lavender: then after all dreams have had a round you weave them together
    Lucinda Lavender: looking for contrast and similarity
    Lucinda Lavender: at the end there is timeto sort of free chat if needed
    Lucinda Lavender: or desired
    Paradise Tennant: so each person recounts a dream sequence or image in turn and then you start over and each dream sequence or image is dscussed round the circle both individually and how it connects to the other dreams ?
    Lucinda Lavender: during the weaving one can comment on how the energy shifted as things get said
    stevenaia Michinaga: like threading them together
    Lucinda Lavender: sometimes everyone shows up with similar elements, snow, trees, windows etc.
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: contrast and similarity of the themes and content ... that focuses in a certain way, I guess, a bit of an arms-length quality?
    Lucinda Lavender: arms length in that we are looking not for a personal view but a global one
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Santoshima Resident: global within a sampling from a tiny pool of dreams
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: it sounds like it might stay away from interpretation, though
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Lucinda Lavender: not needing interpretation except to say...ah dolphins bring intuition I have heard it said etc
    Calvino Rabeni: in order to hold open its potentials for further emergence
    Lucinda Lavender: or if it pops intuitively into your head it is great to say it
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Lucinda Lavender: one main thing...if some one hears your dream wrong from what you said...that is just fine
    Lucinda Lavender: you accept that
    Lucinda Lavender: you do not need to correct them
    Calvino Rabeni: that's part of the dream too, their part
    Lucinda Lavender: all hearing is accepted
    Lucinda Lavender: right!!
    Paradise Tennant: in the book lucid dreaming they recounted dreams where more than one person was dreaming the dream
    Paradise Tennant: very cool
    Paradise Tennant: you could do you own dream circle in a dream :)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...ceremonies in dreams are kind of like a teaching
    Lucinda Lavender: tho I suppose some might argue
    Calvino Rabeni: I wonder what it would be, if this dream method were a MBTI type, most natural to a certain type

    Lucinda Lavender: you know when you have those tho...because they feel special
    Calvino Rabeni: (thinking it must have N and P in it)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: probably
    Lucinda Lavender: but I was an S for years...and would be doing the N work in sleep
    stevenaia Michinaga: S & N?
    Lucinda Lavender: sesing or intuition
    Lucinda Lavender: sensing
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Sensing, Intuition
    Lucinda Lavender: two ways of gathering information
    Santoshima Resident: can one be smack in the middle of some of those divisions?

    Editor's Note:  Yes, see the earlier quotation, from just before Santo arrived.

    Calvino Rabeni: Does this make any sense to you ... that S makes meaning from the details to the big pattern, and N makes meaning from the big pattern to the details
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!!
    Calvino Rabeni: that is, bottom up and top down travelling with attention?
    Lucinda Lavender: that makes sense
    Lucinda Lavender: to me
    Paradise Tennant: smiles just like the rravelling with attention :) part
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me
    Santoshima Resident: bye Stevenaia
    Lucinda Lavender: sleep well:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night all, will make note of dreams
    Calvino Rabeni: dream well, Stevenaia :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles but must be off too ... busy week :) sweet dreams :)) full of colour .. and the entire alphabet :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Santoshima Resident: bye Paradise
    Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Paradise :)
    Paradise Tennant: namaste :) my firends
    Lucinda Lavender: namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: It's my impression that the type theory sort of assumes an intrinsic or inherited character .. almost like there were genetic factors
    Calvino Rabeni: the "nature" side of our complex development
    Calvino Rabeni: then though, people are so intelligent and flexible they learn a lot of behaviors
    Calvino Rabeni: so it gets a bit gray, what's "natural" and what's learned
    Lucinda Lavender: not sure about that...welll maybe so...like we come with some dominent functions and work with that
    Lucinda Lavender: we apply the function to new fields
    Calvino Rabeni: I see yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I remember you earlier asked "what's new" and I thought of something
    Calvino Rabeni: I have been watching some trends in what people do with social media
    Lucinda Lavender: listening
    Calvino Rabeni: it seems there's currently developing, a trend for people to use it to be able to see "inside" other people's subjectivities
    Calvino Rabeni: which it turns out there's a huge curiosity about
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting!
    Lucinda Lavender: we are curious to know what others like and do?
    Calvino Rabeni: given the prior culture of individualism and separation
    Calvino Rabeni: not just what they like and do, but how they see things, how they experience things
    Calvino Rabeni: the "what's it like" kind of questions
    Calvino Rabeni: which are about experience
    Calvino Rabeni: as well as the older versions, like, what does so and so do?
    Calvino Rabeni: The daily life questions .. Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous was an early example
    Calvino Rabeni: but what is new, is it going to the everyday, the common demographic, the subjective "what's it like to be you" questions
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...what is it like to have a different situation...
    Calvino Rabeni: and more peer to peer, more personal, not framed like a big drama
    Santoshima Resident: the ground for empathy
    Calvino Rabeni: Reality TV is a certain frame that gets at that a little bit
    Calvino Rabeni: yes :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I didn't mean TV for empathy, but maybe it can do that
    Santoshima Resident: really?  seems more voyeuristic
    Lucinda Lavender: that is what I thought too San
    Santoshima Resident: tv, i mean

    Lucinda Lavender: that empathy would be aroused
    Santoshima Resident: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: There was one show where people traded houses and children for a week, then got interviewed about it (reality tv) - with families from very different value systems
    Lucinda Lavender: wow an eye opener I imagine
    Calvino Rabeni: yes .. and sorry Bell :)
    Calvino Rabeni: and later there were blogs that gave good inside views of non-typical life worlds
    Calvino Rabeni: like high functioning autism, for example, or other non-typical mental worlds
    Calvino Rabeni: Temple Grandin was an early (and continuing) example (in books, not social media)
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting ...
    Calvino Rabeni: but it's developing to a more direct communication, smaller and more immediate bits, like just being able to ask a rather large group "What's it like for you to do or be X?" and hear from the ones with real experiences in that area
    Calvino Rabeni: and then getting different inside stories
    Calvino Rabeni: so it connected up with people's desires to know, providing for the asker's side - a more active listening - as well as the speaker's side where people want to talk about themselves or do something that's confession-like.
    Lucinda Lavender: I wonder how different we really are?
    Calvino Rabeni: that's the interesting question to be discovered :)
    Calvino Rabeni: and it depends on how we are listened to .. what one expresses gets drawn and re-articulated through the listening and telling
    Lucinda Lavender: that makes me think of dream circle...a venue for listening and telling
    Lucinda Lavender: in a deep way
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems the means of help are evolving too
    Calvino Rabeni: I need to go, though ..
    Santoshima Resident: g'nit Cal ... interesting chat, thank you
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks so much, Santo and Cinda
    Santoshima Resident: g'nite Luci
    Calvino Rabeni: dream well
    Santoshima Resident: ty, you too :)
    Calvino Rabeni: bye :)
    Santoshima Resident: bye ~
    Santoshima Resident: luci have set up 12 cushions for the dream circle



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