2012.11.30 07:00 - Finding answers and new questions...

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

    Attending were Eliza Madrigal, XsAndree, Korel Laloix


    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza and thanks!!
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, no worries at all - nice that you can make it. I can stay for about fifteen minutes
    Lucinda Lavender: Great!

    Eliza Madrigal: On Fridays I chant for an hour at this time now, so it i has been hard to make your session
    Eliza Madrigal: but today I'll go only the second part - would love to hear how you are doing
    Lucinda Lavender: that sounds lovely
    Eliza Madrigal: it is... wish I could nudge the time up by an hour or two but not my choice :)
    Eliza Madrigal: 10 am feels like the middle of the day for me
    Lucinda Lavender: well I feel pretty good, my ankle is better, and I wear a wrap for it
    Eliza Madrigal: good to hear that
    Lucinda Lavender: and my hiking boots
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Imagine an ankle injury is no small matter when one chases children for a living :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: the injury seems persistent... a few times this year?
    Lucinda Lavender: so far no reall chasing involved
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...and a total of 19 times since high school
    Eliza Madrigal: ohh wow
    Eliza Madrigal: I saw something the other day.. a kind of wrap that had special support - when I find it again I'll email
    Eliza Madrigal: "specially designed" :)
    Lucinda Lavender: the falling when stepping down to a lower,level created more pressure with the fall
    Lucinda Lavender: cool!
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting dreams?
    Lucinda Lavender: not this week except on with a danger feeling to it....sort of a heads up to telling it to children
    Xs Andree: ao off
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xs!
    Xs Andree smiles
    Lucinda Lavender: I was perhaps warning myself not to tell scary stories to children
    Xs Andree: Good morning to you both.
    Xs Andree sips coffee
    Eliza Madrigal: I see, interesting Luci
    Lucinda Lavender: good morning Xs...
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if there is a visual announcement we could put up, for dream circle
    Eliza Madrigal: for those who don't receive group emails
    Lucinda Lavender: I think that I often ask myself in regard to the dream..."what do I need to know"
    Eliza Madrigal: like a check list, Luci?
    Lucinda Lavender: great idea to put that up ...like a little sign
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Lucinda Lavender: check list in regard to listening to the dream?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: after a dream... questions you ask yourself
    Lucinda Lavender: right...if there is something like a help available....to any one what might that be?
    Lucinda Lavender: something like a potential heads up
    Eliza Madrigal: I like that idea
    Eliza Madrigal: levels of treasure panning
    Lucinda Lavender: I only say that because I have been thinking at school about what is scary to children in story telling
    Xs Andree listens
    Lucinda Lavender: we are learning about Nutcracker
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: there is a scary mouse king
    Lucinda Lavender: please excuse,xs my typing I am on iPad
    Eliza Madrigal: what is hard is that kids are so individual, right? With my three children, one was very affected by scary things so i was more careful with her
    Eliza Madrigal: whereas another was affected but liked that :)
    Lucinda Lavender: when the fight fighting begins...or the idea that Clara's dream might be scary....both are kind of powerful
    Lucinda Lavender: yes Eliza...each different...and when working with a group and you are me who gets a little dramatic sometimes...I forget

    Lucinda Lavender: I like to model curiosity tho...a calm one
    Eliza Madrigal: modeling calm curiosity - love that
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm sorry to pop away so quickly
    Xs Andree: It is fine, Eliza, it was good to see you both again.
    Lucinda Lavender: it is great you were here !
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd really love to stay but this is the only day of the week she does this particular chant
    Eliza Madrigal: (((((Xs and Luci)))))) miss talking with you both
    Eliza Madrigal: bfn
    Lucinda Lavender: have a wonderful chanting
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks
    Lucinda Lavender: bfn
    Lucinda Lavender: xs do I appear as a cloud? or just my hair?
    Xs Andree: you are a big red cloud to me
    Lucinda Lavender: red! wow
    Xs Andree: lol
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: any thing you would like to talk about?
    Lucinda Lavender: brb...
    Lucinda Lavender: back
    Xs Andree: welcome back again
    Lucinda Lavender: thank
    Lucinda Lavender: I'd my cloud just move?
    Xs Andree: I don't know, really. Not sure what to talk about.
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: It did

    Lucinda Lavender: did I ! wow I just figured out how?
    Lucinda Lavender: ! I meant...
    Xs Andree: I'm not sure what you mean.
    Lucinda Lavender: oh...I did not mean to put a question mark...when I look back at the field where I have typed I find lots of surprises.
    Xs Andree: lol
    Xs Andree: I've watched as glass scattered on the ground all moved to one point on the floor, reformed into a whole glass, then jumped up to rest perfectly at the edge of a table.
    Xs Andree: I find the more I release my idea of the past, the easier it is to see into the future, or to move back and forward through time in perception.
    Lucinda Lavender: amazing!
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting image! things falling part and becoming whole again...
    Xs Andree: Entropy is the marker by which we all conspire to speak of time.
    Xs Andree: Our sense of time isn't natural, it is taught. I learned this with my children. My son used to say things like "I remember when I was your age and..."
    Xs Andree: My husband would correct him, and I'd let him do so, but when it was just me and my son I'd let him speak of such things without correcting him.
    Xs Andree: He would say interesting things. Talk about fishing, being a policeman, being a soldier...
    Xs Andree: Others have criticized me for not correcting him, insisting that he needed to learn the proper order and concepts of past, future and present...
    Xs Andree: but I wonder...
    Xs Andree: if it is the proper order, why do we have to learn it?
    Xs Andree: what would we talk about, how would we experience life if we did not learn it in the same manner?
    Lucinda Lavender: perhaps to relate to "group reality"
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting question
    Xs Andree: I don't agree with group reality. It seems contrived, which is fine, all that we know is a contrivance of some sort...but if it is contrived, then I am responsible for what I believe, and responsible for what I teach others to believe as well.
    Xs Andree: What we're often asked to believe brings a lot of pain and suffering into the world that is not necessary.
    Lucinda Lavender: I could ponder those last few statements for a long time...
    Xs Andree: heh, I have, myself.
    Xs Andree: all my life.
    Xs Andree: this is the year I start finding answers, and new questions.
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe we have the beginning middle and end sense so that we can grow and change things

    Xs Andree: As an experiment I decided to manifest something very specific. I started back in July.
    Xs Andree: A brass bell. Worn and well used, not large, but not small either.
    Xs Andree: It came to me earlier this week. It is sitting on my desk.
    Lucinda Lavender: so curious how...you went about it.
    Xs Andree: I imagined it in my mind, held it there through a day, as I did my routine, then released my desire out into the world.
    Xs Andree: It was brought to me by my protector, who has just come into my life as well, as part of the answer to something she was looking for a month ago.
    Lucinda Lavender: have heard an idea about"see it, hear it, smell it, etc".
    Lucinda Lavender: ah...
    Xs Andree: this bell is tangled up in a series of highly unlikely events, which, to me, is far more likely to occur if I considered time to be moving backward...
    Xs Andree: Somewhere I get the bell, and give it to her, which she exchanges later for some money at a thrift store..
    Lucinda Lavender: so are you saying you imagine forward and go backward from there?
    Xs Andree: and then in July, I miss my bell...
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: Or I imagine the events that I know backward, and when I do, the very strange and unlikely seems very normal and mundane.
    Lucinda Lavender: very interesting to imagine backwards....
    Lucinda Lavender: thinking about my fall a few,weeks,ago as the radio speaks of falling:)
    Xs Andree: Your fall?
    Lucinda Lavender: stepped down a bit and sprained my ankle
    Lucinda Lavender: in hindsight thought about having been angry just before it happened
    Lucinda Lavender: our minds shift focus and then stop bringing a full picture into our experience
    Xs Andree nods
    Lucinda Lavender: am taking seriously the job of thinking about how I place my foot
    Xs Andree: lol, I bet you are now.
    Lucinda Lavender: I wonder...the sense of protection you feel ...connects you across time/mind
    Lucinda Lavender: perhaps anger breaks connection...
    Lucinda Lavender: and,awareness becomes,super focused

    Xs Andree: It does. Early last week I watched a ritual take shape, and a totem create itself without planning. I wrote down the ritual so it could be done again. I wanted to make a totem for my kids, not according to the ritual or anything, because I didn't have what I needed for it, but just to give them something for christmas. So I started to gather the physical things I needed to make the totem, and started working on it.
    Xs Andree: Later that week, the circumstances needed for the ritual inserted themselves into the ritual, and when my kids totem was complete, so was the ritual, fulfilled in full, without me realizing it. I was showing a friend who helped me make it the ritual
    Xs Andree: and that is when we realized what had happened.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) nice to see you both still here, hello again
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe I will hear more on this totem...I must go for now. the forming of the totem and the ritual are intriguing ....may they go well and have an outcome,of increased happiness:) bye for now tho....thanks for being here...
    Eliza Madrigal: hugs, luci - enjoy the day
    Lucinda Lavender: hi an bye Eliza hugs all!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) looking forward to reading the log
    Eliza Madrigal: am fond of ritual when chosen
    Xs Andree: chosen?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, as opposed to something one does because they feel they need to
    Eliza Madrigal: to be accepted by family, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: conscious ritual
    Eliza Madrigal: but I'll have to read what was shared - that was just a general remark :)
    Xs Andree: heh
    Xs Andree: Well, I was talking about time more than rituals.
    Xs Andree: I've realized recently that I tend to see everything symbolically. To me, the world is virtual, not concrete.
    Xs Andree: filled with abstractions, even mundane things like cups and rocks and trees are symbols engraved into the world. Persistent ideas, more than things.
    Eliza Madrigal: aware of the architecture?
    Xs Andree: hmm
    Xs Andree: I'm not sure, I'm still thinking about the question
    Xs Andree: I'm realizing how much of a difference there is between how other people think about things and how I think about them. It has caused quite a bit of confusion and misunderstanding.
    Xs Andree: architecture
    Eliza Madrigal: very intriguing actually... what do you think it changes about your life as compared with someone whose world is more concrete?

    Xs Andree: I don't place as much value on material things as I think I should. It makes keeping things difficult, so I tend to have less things to work with than most people do.
    Xs Andree: When I need something I have to think it into existence, other people usually already have the things they need, and they keep them around.
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps you don't have as many things to think away as others may :)
    Xs Andree: My things tend to fade back to where I got them from. They become gifts to friends or I wind up losing them because I'm not keeping track of them, or they get broken because I don't care for my things as much as I should.
    Eliza Madrigal: may=might* :)
    Xs Andree: I would agree with that as well, and I don't engage as much as other people do in the career of getting things for myself.
    Eliza Madrigal: for me it is a pendulum - though I admire the idea of fluidity and generosity and uninterrupted creativity as needed :)
    Xs Andree: Nor do I feel as much need for them as others do...but sometimes...I need a tool, or someone needs medicine or food, and I'm not likely to have it on hand.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: Yes, I need more balance in my life. I think maybe I haven't had it so far because I needed to learn how to do what I do. It isn't something most people would even agree is possible, at least not in mixed company.
    Xs Andree: strangely though, when I talk one on one with the same people about it, they speak more freely about what they believe, and most often confess a similar belief.
    Xs Andree: The idea that this world is just a dream is not entirely correct.
    Xs Andree: Nor is the idea that it is entirely concrete and objective.
    Eliza Madrigal: do you feel there is something inherently wrong for you about this kind of having, or that having will hinder your expressiveness and openenss and exploration?
    Xs Andree: I used to think there was something wrong with it. It certainly seems directly linked with much of the suffering in the world.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Xs Andree: especially how everyone gets convinced that in order to get the things they want or need, they have to get other things instead.
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed....
    Xs Andree: And wind up profiting someone else, and rarely realize the things they wanted to start with.
    Xs Andree: While those who convinced them just walk away with the riches worked hard for, and keep it to themselves.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Xs... I so agree too that this world is not just a dream or not a dream - some say it is a dance but hm... that has never been entirely a satisfying idea to me
    Xs Andree: spiritual wealth is superior to material wealth, but if we weren't meant to have material wealth, we wouldn't have material bodies. Just as if we weren't meant to have spiritual wealth, we wouldn't have spiritual bodies.
    Xs Andree: hehehehe
    Xs Andree: Siva dances the dance of Maya, which creates the inescapable illusion, called karma.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) If one really embraced the world as dream paradigm, it should be possible to be playful with all 'things'
    Xs Andree: Siva is the prime diety of india, "He who's existence relies on nothing"
    Xs Andree: or "The Self-existent one"
    Xs Andree: which is also one of the meanings for one of the names of the Xtian god.
    Xs Andree: I agree, Eliza. I'm...trying to determine something though...is this world, the one I experience, created entirely out of my dream? It is getting hard to tell. The more I change how I view things, the more the world outside me changes.
    Xs Andree: How far does it go? I can't tell cause from effect very well anymore. They keep looking the same to me.
    Xs Andree: I'm getting along well. I still have everything I need. i'm more self-reliant than I used to be, not less...so...
    Eliza Madrigal: some talk of transcending cause and effect, as though cause and effect are a blueprint but not absolute
    Xs Andree: I'm not crazy and deceiving myself.
    Xs Andree nods
    Xs Andree: Blueprint...I like that idea.
    Xs Andree: more concrete than a dream, less than claiming it is absolute
    Eliza Madrigal: outlines

    Xs Andree: like a map
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not a big gamer but I learn a lot from my son describing his games
    Eliza Madrigal: and I liked the way that once he described what makes a great game and a mediocre one
    Xs Andree: gamer as in video games or role playing games? Role Players call what they do "gaming" as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: which is that in a great game, the levels are malleable... that one can have some effect on the design of the map
    Xs Andree: yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: he isn't a role player... newly 14 but takes his participation in things really seriously
    Xs Andree: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: and I find that often he is able, due to his gaming, to articulate things I am working with in a "spiritual" sense of what have you
    Xs Andree: stepping out into his own mastery of the world
    Xs Andree: I hope I never stop discovering that I don't know much about life.
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed so - he understands that everything he is doing is metaphor
    Xs Andree: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't stop him from being attached to it - that's part of the participation :)
    Xs Andree: you know, this new generation of young kids amazes me. I hear them speak and talk, some of them to world leaders even...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... they are leaps in many ways... so much to process though
    Eliza Madrigal: can be overwhelming too
    Eliza Madrigal: you are an excellent writer... perhaps that wouldn't be as possible if you had been preoccupied with gathering things
    Xs Andree: heheh, maybe.
    Eliza Madrigal: Mostly I think it is about seasons... like the ecclesiastical song
    Eliza Madrigal: times to gather times to give away... transitions
    Eliza Madrigal: btw you may like this article if you haven't seen it before: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/travel/thin-places-where-we-are-jolted-out-of-old-ways-of-seeing-the-world.html?pagewanted=all
    Xs Andree: reading it now, listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvsX03LOMhI
    Eliza Madrigal clicks
    Xs Andree: The Sound of Silence
    Eliza Madrigal: perfect, ty
    Xs Andree: Nice article!
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful isn't it... someone shared it with me several months ago and it keeps coming to mind
    Xs Andree: My room has become a thin place by my residency in it.
    Xs Andree: Most people feel at peace here, like a sanctuary, and most people are changed by being in it.

    Eliza Madrigal: lovely
    Eliza Madrigal: is it due to practices or writing or...?
    Xs Andree: I didn't realize how much peace I bring to those around me until people started mentioning how nice my room is. In any sane estimation, it's a sty and a mess. Everything is disorganized and in piles...but everyone finds it peaceful and serene.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Xs Andree: I do a LOT of meditation here. I think I meditate about three to four hours a day on average.
    Eliza Madrigal: Becoming a thin place
    Xs Andree: not counting the growing "9 second" moments
    Xs Andree: yeah.
    Eliza Madrigal: a very intense schedule Xs - envy that - sounds wonderful to me
    Xs Andree: lol people ask me more and more "what are you thinking?" when I'm in those moments...I tell them "nothing" and they don't believe me.
    Xs Andree: it's not really a schedule, it just happens. The more I meditate, the easier it becomes, and the more I enjoy it.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Xs Andree: sometimes though I fall into deep meditation instantly without realizing it. I'm just gone.
    Eliza Madrigal: nourishing, spontaneous
    Eliza Madrigal: life takes place at so many levels simultaneously - really is quite amazing
    Xs Andree: yeah, it does.
    Xs Andree: I've learned recently that we do not live single lives
    Xs Andree: our existence is multidimensional, we are complex intelligences with many layers of "self' made up of many different lives, living simultanously with one another.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd call that seeing the architecture :)
    Xs Andree: I'm going to have to explore this idea of architecture more. It has a ring of truth to it, speaks of definite structure to things.
    Eliza Madrigal: do you have a good memory?
    Xs Andree: lol, well...ummm
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Xs Andree: I remember things happening that others don't, and I don't remember things that others insist happened.
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks.... memory is a puzzle for me and there is something to the way you describe your own thinking that brings a bit of clarity
    Eliza Madrigal: more like being aware of different radio stations at different times
    Eliza Madrigal: dream work is part of working out that puzzle, layers opening... hah... fun to be with you
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to meet someone about an event, in a few minutes, but thanks for lingering with me
    Xs Andree: I'm remembering my dreams more and more.
    Xs Andree: Thank you, it was nice to come here and find someone here. I've thought about it, and I accept your invitation.
    Eliza Madrigal: yay :D
    Xs Andree: ㋡
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much and welcome aboard
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll just need your email in IM so I can add you to things - will add you in-world to the group now though :))
    Xs Andree: Thank you for the offer. A few weeks ago I would have declined it, but things have changed, and I think my role in things changing might lead to new learning.
    Korel Laloix: Bozho
    Eliza Madrigal: <3
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori! :) sorry to run so fast but I have a previous meeting - Say hi to our newest guardian Xs :))
    Eliza Madrigal: If the playasbeinghere invite doesn't come in, please let me know - I've sent it now :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hugs and thanks, bfn
    Korel Laloix: Ciao bella.
    Korel Laloix: Long session today?
    Xs Andree: lol, I think so. I came a little late, and have just stayed
    Korel Laloix: Just got into work... arrivied in the middle of a moving on party thing... so people are drinking and eating.. and I am ignoring them...
    Korel Laloix: Well.. having a glass of something nummy and red.

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