2013.06.16 19:00 - Don't play with that robot, and eat your spinach

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Duchesse de Beaufort".
    Aphrodite Macbain: brb
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Aphr :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: How's the computer Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: I use the slow one that doesn't crash. it is an exercise in patience though
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) nine seconds expands to 12
    Calvino Rabeni: Twelve minutes!  That's a nice way to say torturous :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-D
    Calvino Rabeni: it takes 10 - 15 minutes to get it set up, then it is kind of okay for chat :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like a good solution.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Now you can relax
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: yup
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think the theme is knowing when to be still and when to act
    Aphrodite Macbain: I tend to act before I think. Too impatient to do
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a good theme

    Aphrodite Macbain: What's your way of dealing with something that comes up?
    Calvino Rabeni: good question ... nowadays I try to be aware of the BEFORE, the "how did I get here" kind of questions
    Calvino Rabeni: so like, for instance
    Calvino Rabeni: If I meet with a friend, ... and I know there are some things that make me impatient, I might have already done some attitude adjustment
    Aphrodite Macbain: you anticipate and plan?
    Calvino Rabeni: anticipate, not so much plan, as "take care of " my general state
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does that stop you from being spontaneous?
    Calvino Rabeni: not at all .. because it helps a state of flexibility and readiness
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: i think it helps spontaneity
    Aphrodite Macbain: like taking a deep breath or counting to 10
    Aphrodite Macbain: I find that sometimes if I think about something too long, I dont do it
    Calvino Rabeni: sor of like, if a friend came over and they wanted to do something reallly physical, I wouldn't be able to do it, but I might be responsive if I'd been going to the gym and were in shape for it
    Aphrodite Macbain: thinking takes away the urgency
    Calvino Rabeni: "will you help me carry this really beig potted plant"?
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: well that would be frustrating, if I COULDN'T, but not frustrating if I COULD
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: frustration is a really important part of life
    Aphrodite Macbain: I find I tend to say things before they are fully formulated ideas , and then end up feling stupid or trying to take it back
    Calvino Rabeni: along with stress
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: oh well that is interesting, about forumulating
    Aphrodite Macbain: why do we need frustration and stress? what good do they do?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am not sure what drives this urgency. Why are we in a rush to answer the phone?
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a bit like you know, it takes time to get things going, to get physically set up for activities, and so animals and humans have ways of already being ready to do a lot of things at once,
    Aphrodite Macbain: say something, do something
    Calvino Rabeni: but holding them back
    Calvino Rabeni: that's frustration
    Calvino Rabeni: readyness in abeyance
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: the body shakes like an animal poised to leap
    Calvino Rabeni: you can see that in your cat :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: That's why I like reading - we can take our time over the words.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes lol
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe friends too :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: especially when there is a bird in the room
    Aphrodite Macbain: friends?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes they crouch down, then shake the rear like they are abot to blast off
    Calvino Rabeni: engine running, brakes on
    Aphrodite Macbain: friends?
    Calvino Rabeni: cats do that
    Aphrodite Macbain: wht kind of friends do you have ? :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: not sure about your friends
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, you can see something liek that in people too
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah lol

    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, waiting for you to finish your sentence so they can leap in
    Aphrodite Macbain: or waiting for the bell...
    Calvino Rabeni: did you know, robots can beat people at rock scissors paper
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol no! how?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's random, isn't it?
    Calvino Rabeni: because they see the micromovements beforehand, of which way the hand will go
    Calvino Rabeni: it is not random for people
    Calvino Rabeni: there's a prepatory giveaway
    Calvino Rabeni: some people can see it a lot better thanothers
    Calvino Rabeni: its like the cat's wiggle getting ready
    Aphrodite Macbain: un less you practice Zen and the art of rock scissors paper
    Aphrodite Macbain: being completely relaxed in the moment
    Calvino Rabeni: there is the game of droping a bill through someone's fingers
    Aphrodite Macbain: !?
    Calvino Rabeni: you have to be really calm to catch it
    Aphrodite Macbain: calm but focused
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a kids game .. one person holds a dollar bill, suspending it in the air
    Calvino Rabeni: the other puts their finger and thimb on each side, ready to catch it
    Calvino Rabeni: then the holder can release it
    Calvino Rabeni: it is hard for the catcher to catch it
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: but they can, if really calm
    Calvino Rabeni: and need tge aware of , rather than watch, the holder
    Calvino Rabeni: their whole body, not the bill
    Aphrodite Macbain: I find I automatically catch things that I drop or knock over - I am amazed at my reflexes
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, you have some advanced knowledge too
    Aphrodite Macbain: but if i were consiously waiting, it would be different
    Calvino Rabeni: other people wouldn't be quite as good at catching what you drop
    Aphrodite Macbain: that whole Zen thing
    Calvino Rabeni: you know the "accident prone" feeling?
    Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: ever have that one? :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: rarely
    Aphrodite Macbain: if I'm tred or distracted or upset
    Calvino Rabeni: kind of like, "I think I have butterfingers today, better be careful"
    Aphrodite Macbain: no, I dont get that feeling. Do you?
    Calvino Rabeni: drop one thing ... I can notice the condition is still there, and when it goes away
    Aphrodite Macbain: what does it feel like?
    Aphrodite Macbain: stressful?
    Aphrodite Macbain: anxious?
    Calvino Rabeni: good question .. hmm sort of spacy ant tickly, maybe like I might bump an elbow by mistake .. it's peripheral I think
    Calvino Rabeni: I never body sensed it more than that
    Calvino Rabeni: anxious would be an add on .. if the stakes were high
    Aphrodite Macbain: what is the term propriocentric?
    Aphrodite Macbain: a built in awareness of what is around us?
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's part of our brain
    Aphrodite Macbain: prockles on the back of the neck
    Aphrodite Macbain: prickles
    Calvino Rabeni: propioception - noticing what our body knows about what is around us, it is often felt in the limbs
    Aphrodite Macbain: an awareness of someone behind you
    Calvino Rabeni: or like skin
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it is like space
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that must be a very old sense. Somthing animals have
    Calvino Rabeni: another similar wordl is interoception, feeling what is inside, like a funny stomach feeling or a butterflies
    Calvino Rabeni: it is the oldest sense
    Aphrodite Macbain: what?
    Aphrodite Macbain: interoception, ?
    Calvino Rabeni: the feeling of movement inside and out
    Aphrodite Macbain: Like the 6th sense
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't think theyare separable really
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah both
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am not aware of anything like that inside except digestive stuff
    Aphrodite Macbain: and anxiety
    Aphrodite Macbain: and sadness
    Aphrodite Macbain: and being in love
    Aphrodite Macbain: and being depressed
    Calvino Rabeni: what about when something is dirty that you might want to eat?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Is that what you are talking about when you say butterflies. I would feel disgust at the dirty thing and either wash it of throw it.
    Aphrodite Macbain: or
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah
    Aphrodite Macbain: butterflies for me mean tension and anxiety felt in the stomach
    Calvino Rabeni: how about the feeling when you are near a really delicate plant?
    Aphrodite Macbain: All thesefeelings are triggered by hormones...
    Calvino Rabeni: like a mimosa, or a fern, or grasses that move in th ewind
    Aphrodite Macbain: attentive
    Aphrodite Macbain: calm, happy
    Aphrodite Macbain: curious
    Aphrodite Macbain: you?
    Calvino Rabeni: these feelings are reponsive to nature
    Calvino Rabeni: to the FORMS in nature, the particular way they are
    Calvino Rabeni: they are not internally sourced
    Aphrodite Macbain: Forms?
    Aphrodite Macbain: but they are learned
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know what grass is, and what wind is
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, like the plant really is delicate
    Calvino Rabeni: you can feel that
    Calvino Rabeni: it is not learned
    Calvino Rabeni: it is perceptionor observation
    Aphrodite Macbain: but I can distiguish a delicate plant from a hardy one by looking at the, We learn the forms
    Calvino Rabeni: then later, the "I know what it is" gets in the way
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: I should go for a waalk with you :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: so it turns into a picture, a memory or concept more than the presence of real life form
    Calvino Rabeni: walks ... yes indeed, I wish I spent more time at it
    Aphrodite Macbain: zIt is a challenge for me to give a guided tour of the botanical gardens because I want to just talk about beauty!
    Calvino Rabeni: it's good to stop and sit with it too
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: rather than giving the latin name etc
    Calvino Rabeni: well hmm, I haent' done that ... my mother was a docent at the botanical garden though
    Calvino Rabeni: the challenge is to get them to look and say what they see
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
    Calvino Rabeni: fuzzy leaves, or a hidden bee hive or whatever
    Calvino Rabeni: the whatever isn't so important
    Calvino Rabeni: as the looking
    Aphrodite Macbain: I described a particular view as tho it were a landscape painting
    Aphrodite Macbain: foreground, middleground, background
    Aphrodite Macbain: colour, composition, texture
    Aphrodite Macbain: How interesting that yr mother was a tour guide
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: she must know her plants
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, she gives advice every week as part of a city program called Master Gardeners
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ah we have Master Gardeners here too
    Calvino Rabeni: I have been wishing she would do a blog on it
    Aphrodite Macbain: what is stopping her?
    Calvino Rabeni: she likes other puzzles and games
    Aphrodite Macbain: that's OK too
    Calvino Rabeni: i think it takes more concentration to write, to plan
    Calvino Rabeni: the other things are skill level
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would bet that once she starts it will flow...
    Calvino Rabeni: like sudoku, jigsaw puzzles with plants and patterns, crossword
    Calvino Rabeni: the flow would help
    Aphrodite Macbain: keeping the grey matter working
    Calvino Rabeni: the thing im most interested int lately is

    Calvino Rabeni: how the garden is different each year
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: specifically, whether it was something she did, or due to natural cycles, or conditions that are ecological and can be discerned
    Calvino Rabeni: this year the spinach is spectacular
    Calvino Rabeni: last year it was bug-eaten
    Aphrodite Macbain: laughs
    Aphrodite Macbain: lots of vitamin K
    Calvino Rabeni: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: some years a whole crop is wiped out, then next year it is fine
    Aphrodite Macbain: I should go and eat my curry dinner!
    Calvino Rabeni: lots of ecology at work
    Aphrodite Macbain: always
    Calvino Rabeni: sounds delicious
    Calvino Rabeni: I'll go for one of those walks :)
    Calvino Rabeni: take care
    Aphrodite Macbain: It is. lol
    Aphrodite Macbain: chicken
    Calvino Rabeni: bfn
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Cal. Always nice talking with you



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