2014.02.22 13:00 - Theme session: "What do you experience during drops?"

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

    This was a "Theme Session" and the theme was (roughly stated): "What do you experience during 'drops'?"

    2-22-2014 4-45-36 PM.png

    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat.
    Bruce Mowbray: I can't seem to get thisw cushion to change my sit.
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! There is goes!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Your gossimer wings are elegant and beautiful, Cat!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
    Bruce Mowbray: gossamer?
    Bruce Mowbray: How does one spell that?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure :)
    Bruce Mowbray: gossamer ... I think.
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, they are beautiful,
    Bruce Mowbray: and they remind me of the Coursera course I am taking right now...
    Bruce Mowbray: on Beauty and Symmetry.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: greetings, pabonauts.
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Wol :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Before we get started, here's a link to that course, Cat:
    Bruce Mowbray: https://class.coursera.org/ntusym-001
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
    Bruce Mowbray: It began just last week and I am already "over my head" -- but it's a FINE course and I'm enjoying it immensely.
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I'll look into it thank you Bruce :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hm....odd configuration... where to sit...where to sit...
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Hi
    Bruce Mowbray: Hee hee.
    Bruce Mowbray: Do we have B.O.?
    Bruce Mowbray: Perfect symmetry, Eliza!
    Bruce Mowbray: and Cat and I were just talking about symmetry.
    Eliza Madrigal laughs... wondering what the unique logic of the situation is... like stepping into a dream
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: [12:55] Bruce Mowbray: https://class.coursera.org/ntusym-001
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, wonderful... was listening to the Her links Eos posted, earlier...
    Eliza Madrigal: "supersymmetry"
    Bruce Mowbray: You mean links to the movie "her," Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: to the music
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: brb
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aggers!
    Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful arrival, Aggers :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Buona sera
    Eliza Madrigal: yay... loving this seating puzzle putting itself together
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: hello eliza, aggers
    Bruce Mowbray: wu wei
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aggers :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Puzzles can be fun or alternatively annoying I find
    Eliza Madrigal: Aggers, that outfit is freaking fantastic ^.^
    Agatha Macbeth: TY :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Aph!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Wol has one just like it :p
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: HIya
    Wol Euler: hello aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Aphie


    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles and settles in
    Eliza Madrigal: Wol is looking fantastic too... just in a different sort of way :)
    Wol Euler smiles modestly.
    Aphrodite Macbain: everyone looks fantastic in their own way.
    Agatha Macbeth: Always does :)
    Wol Euler: thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: lol Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: yellow isn't the easiest color to wear.. so that's why it jumps out at me 
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Sanji
    Aphrodite Macbain: you are a ray of sunshine Eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: And Yaku-ji
    Eliza Madrigal: ooo and now seeing Aph has been to kimono shop!
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, San and Yaku!
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Aph))))) thank you... am indeed feeling sunshiny today
    Agatha Macbeth tickles Liz's feet
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Yaku, San :)
    Santoshima Resident: greetings
    Eliza Madrigal giggles wildly
    Wol Euler: hello san
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku, San :)
    Wol Euler: and yaku
    Aphrodite Macbain: yowza seems the gang's all here
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, indeed, an esteemed assemblage.

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    Aphrodite Macbain: see what you did Bruce?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: be careful what you wish for... hehehe...
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if he should wait a minute or so more before beginning the "theme...." giving time for Yaku to find a cushion, also....
    Agatha Macbeth: And here's Bleuji :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yayyy!
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: hey PaBers :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: Could you give me a notecard, Bruce?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Bleu
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I will make one more stab at promoting an excellent course at Coursera that began just last week:
    Bruce Mowbray: https://class.coursera.org/ntusym-001
    Bruce Mowbray: A course in Beauty and Symmetry.
    Bruce Mowbray: Well worth looking into.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, are we ready, then?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt :)
    Bleu Oleander: so many great courses at Coursera!
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
    Agatha Macbeth: Nanu nanu QT
    Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Qt :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, and this looks like a good one, Bleu.
    Qt Core: Hi all (no answers needed or we won't start anything) ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Wol Euler: Bruce, would you care to lead us off?
    Wol Euler: ty
    Bruce Mowbray: kk.
    Bruce Mowbray: I've just given everyone a notecard, I hope.
    Bruce Mowbray: If not, please let me know.
    Aphrodite Macbain: got it
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed you have - I got two :p
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zenny
    Bruce Mowbray: Recently, there has been some discussion in various venues about the viability of PaB...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Bruce Mowbray: or, that's probably putting it too coarsely.
    Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Zen
    Bruce Mowbray: ... about what we're trying to do here...
    Agatha Macbeth: Cool dude
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen.
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Bruce Mowbray: So, I thought it might be good to have a theme session.... during which we share our own experiences with the PaB world...
    Bruce Mowbray: and I also thought that it might be good to begin with a circle-trip of sharings about our experiences during the "drops."
    Bruce Mowbray: What do you think?
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: It's perfectly all right for anyone to get more specific or more general...
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Steve
    Bruce Mowbray: whatever seems right to you.
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds great
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie :)
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Agatha Macbeth: Got the last seat :)
    Bruce Mowbray: There are a lot of us here today. . . . so I shall begin, and be brief

    Wol Euler: we all get bonus karma points!+
    Aphrodite Macbain: two little maids from school are we..
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: Or twelve
    Bruce Mowbray: and can we then go counter-clockwise around the circle....
    Bruce Mowbray: so Cat, you would be after me.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: cool.
    Bruce Mowbray: TY!
    Santoshima Resident: that would be looking at the circle from above, Bruce?
    Agatha Macbeth: Widdershins
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, looking at the circle from above ground.
    Aphrodite Macbain: rather than under...
    Bruce Mowbray: Dropping, for me:
    Bruce Mowbray: is a choice
    Bruce Mowbray: a willingness to be vulnerable
    Bruce Mowbray: to whatever's happening
    Bruce Mowbray: usually some noises....
    Bruce Mowbray: then thoughts about noises
    Bruce Mowbray: then judgments about noises
    Bruce Mowbray: then judgments about those thoughts
    Bruce Mowbray: and those judgments....
    Bruce Mowbray: then dropping all of that.
    Bruce Mowbray: recognizing the impermanence of all of that.
    Bruce Mowbray: and then anticipating the gong again.
    Bruce Mowbray: and the fountain's rising.
    Bruce Mowbray: and forgetting what I just learned.
    Bruce Mowbray: Enough from me for now.
    Bruce Mowbray: Cat?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: dropping has changed over time for me... at first it was something I consciously tried, thinking step 1, 2, 3. Now it's more like a pause to catch my breath and look, a noticing of everything and nothing at the same time :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello E, good to see you


    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
    Zon Kwan: heya
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Zon :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Zon
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon, Eos :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Eos
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Zon. Welcome, Eos.
    Wol Euler: hello eos, zon
    Eos Amaterasu: Hello, Pabbers
    Bruce Mowbray: We're ready for Cat's input...
    Bruce Mowbray: and listening...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: just as I said for me it's a pause to stop and look :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: done :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) glad you asked again Bruce.. had to scroll up somehow had missed Cat's input... thank you
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Cat.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I try not to force anything
    Yakuzza Lethecus: mostly I have my little mental alehouse going
    Yakuzza Lethecus: apehouse
    Agatha Macbeth likes 'mental alehouse'
    Santoshima Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah... me too
    Agatha Macbeth: Freud rocks :p
    Wol Euler: hehehe
    Aphrodite Macbain likes apehouse too
    Bruce Mowbray loves "Ape house"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Monkeys rule!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it is good to be reminded of stopping, but I am far from real dropping
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well so much for now
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Yaku.
    Bruce Mowbray: Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: thanks Bruce
    Bleu Oleander: from “ Basic Ideas” page on the wiki: “The basic idea of "Play as Being" is very simple. Once every fifteen minutes, you take a 9-second break. During that time you relax, and you free up your attention.
    Bleu Oleander: although I don't do that so much in rl, I do try to do it at PaB
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Bleu Oleander: I don't really see the dropping thing except that it never hurts to see how tightly some ideas are held
    Bruce Mowbray also nods.
    Bleu Oleander: trying to understand reality is an ongoing interest and whatever ways I can try to do that I find productive ways to use my time
    Bleu Oleander: thanks, done :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Bleu.
    Bruce Mowbray: Qt?
    Qt Core: when i try to do the dropping it feels like sending a sonar pulse (being a submarine)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Qt Core: just actively try to figure out what is out there
    Qt Core: but it is better when it is the other way around, let say unexpected dropping and what it is there jumps me
    Zen Arado: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Qt Core: nothing more (if i don't have a few hours)
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Raffi.
    Bruce Mowbray: TY, Qt!
    Bruce Mowbray: Zen?
    Aphrodite Macbain: waves at raffi!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: ty Qt, and Hi Raffi :)
    Raffila Millgrove: sorry to be so late (another event)
    Zen Arado: ty Qt
    Zen Arado: I agree with Qt
    Zen Arado: I like to come here to chat and investigate spiritual matters
    Zen Arado: but have never been keen on dropping idea
    Zen Arado: I read somewhere lately that us Westerners time meditation too much
    Zen Arado: we will meditate for X minutes
    Zen Arado: instead of just opening up to it and forgetting about time
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Zen Arado: we don't even notice how we regiment meditation into a time schedule along with everything else


    Bruce Mowbray: [ . . . . . Perhaps I should remind folks of the question: 'What is your experience during the "drops"?'   We are going counter-clockwise around the circle and are now with Zen.]
    Zen Arado: and a 9 secs meditation seems rather like that to me :) But I see that it can be a good start for some perhaps
    Zen Arado: done
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ty!
    Eliza Madrigal: ty
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph?
    Aphrodite Macbain: For me, dropping is not stopping but becoming more aware - of my attitudes, moods, agendas. Stepping out of my head and looking at myself and others
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's hard to do- especially moods and attitudes.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: But I do get some brief insight into the fact that I have them!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Done
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: The minutes between the 90 seconds I listen, during 90 seconds (and after the sessions) I incorporate, sift through, prune and use the thoughts heard and weave what I filter into enriching my views of my reality as it slowly rebuilds itself into some things new and simpler yet familiar to me since the time I began this journey w/ PaB. I have been richly rewarded by this.
    stevenaia Michinaga: done!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, and wow!
    Aphrodite Macbain: tx Stevenaia
    Bruce Mowbray: TY!
    Bruce Mowbray: Eliza, dear?
    Eliza Madrigal: ooo
    Eliza Madrigal: ty Stevie
    Eliza Madrigal: I have shared in other sessions, about my personal practice of dropping, but PaB dropping during sessions is different. ...
    Eliza Madrigal: During the stops, I check myself, and I allow what others have said to check me… let things sink in, or really let go of whatever was happening before the drop… offer it up, in a way.
    Eliza Madrigal: so I relate to Aph in that sense
    Eliza Madrigal: however...
    Eliza Madrigal: I was more 'serious' about the drops at first - would almost never go for tea or IM, but when I began to hear so often how often others weren't really 'there' with them and seemed to feel it was almost silly (at times), I began to question my own idealism... I guess that is a tendency I have...
    Eliza Madrigal: but keeping my own practices
    Eliza Madrigal: At some point I came back to the drops more fully, having let others off the hook, and letting them be just part of my own practice whatever others were doing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: (((Eliza))
    Eliza Madrigal: done
    Bruce Mowbray: thanks so much, Eliza.
    Bruce Mowbray: aggers?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Nothing really interesting to say I'm afraid
    Agatha Macbeth: So let's move on to Wollie
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks aggers.
    Bruce Mowbray: Woly?
    Eliza Madrigal: :(
    Wol Euler: well, okay
    Wol Euler: there are so many drops... the ones here, the ninety seconds, I very often just sit still through them
    Wol Euler: letting my mind go, not hanging on to what was said or felt
    Wol Euler: a clearing-out, as it were
    Wol Euler: perhaps that is dropping, though that word feels too deliberate for what I do then
    Wol Euler: I *do* drop as a deliberate act which I have learned, when conversation gets too heated
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Wol Euler:in a meeting yesterday, for example. On the edge of opening my mouth for a heated reply, I just said "no" to myself and threw away that response
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
    Agatha Macbeth: Age helps
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Wol Euler: gave myself a second to think again and answered calmly, and changed the tone of the meeting.
    Wol Euler: that I think is something I learned here
    Arisia Vita: greetings all
    Wol Euler: done
    Catrinamonblue Resident: age has nothing to do with it; I think more a mental maturity :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: HI Ari
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Wol.
    Zen Arado: Hi Ari
    Eliza Madrigal: ty Wol, and hi Ari :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Tx wol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Ari :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Same thing
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: Let's see, who's next? Eos?
    Bruce Mowbray: NO.
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm...
    Bruce Mowbray: Sorry!
    Bruce Mowbray: San-ji!
    Santoshima Resident: Eos, please go ahead
    Bruce Mowbray: MY apologies!
    Bruce Mowbray: Eos, then?
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Eliza Madrigal: ::hot potato::
    Eos Amaterasu: I like Bleu's quoting of the "basic idea"
    Eos Amaterasu: dropping being in SL, RL, DL (dream life), typist.... who is doing the so-called dropping anyway?
    Eos Amaterasu: the 90 seconds here are "" around ?
    Eos Amaterasu: I remember when my son was born
    Eos Amaterasu: strong vivid awareness, coming from nothing
    Eos Amaterasu: first look
    Eos Amaterasu: part of being sentient, alive....
    Eos Amaterasu: background sound stops
    Eos Amaterasu: only then you hear it
    Eos Amaterasu: and you feel an open awaring
    Eos Amaterasu: that's it
    Eos Amaterasu: here there everywhere
    Eos Amaterasu: ciao!
    Eos Amaterasu: (end)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh!
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce Mowbray: TY! so much!
    Aphrodite Macbain: ciao!
    Bruce Mowbray: San-ji?
    Santoshima Resident: ty, to everyone


    Bruce Mowbray: San?
    Santoshima Resident: bell sound appreciated
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Santoshima Resident: indicates a welcome pause
    Santoshima Resident: like a sigh at times
    Santoshima Resident: so much attunement to the small screen
    Santoshima Resident: of this computer
    Santoshima Resident: in trying to keep up with the chat text
    Santoshima Resident: at times difficult
    Bruce Mowbray: :)

    Santoshima Resident: so often the pause is time to reread
    Santoshima Resident: practical
    Santoshima Resident: and at times, mostly it's just a pause to breathe

    Santoshima Resident: and to notice that breathing

    Santoshima Resident: and notice the noticing

    Santoshima Resident: that's all for now

    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) ty
    Wol Euler: thank you, san, and thanks to everyone
    Aphrodite Macbain: RAffi?
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, San.
    Bruce Mowbray: So then....
    Bruce Mowbray: Raffi?
    Bruce Mowbray: no?
    Bruce Mowbray: How about Ari?
    Arisia Vita: All moments of silence are special to me, for they give me a chance to reach out and touch a friend, to let them know I care. Whenever we have our little 90 sec (or 5 minute) :) breaks, I like to reach out to each of you. done
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain blows Ari a kiss
    Arisia Vita: color me happy :)
    Agatha Macbeth pokes Ari#
    Bruce Mowbray gives Ari a big hug.
    Eliza Madrigal just realized that what she wrote about dropping, was an example of dropping (expectations of others) itself.. drops drops everywhere ^.^
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Aphrodite Macbain: drips and drops
    Eliza Madrigal: that's all :) was just a longer process dropping
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, as a sort of tangent to that, Eliza, I also noticed that many of us seem to equate dropping with meditation...
    Bruce Mowbray: but others see it as a sort of self-improvement session...
    Eos Amaterasu: I picked up a kind of devotional quality in what you said, Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: and for others as a time to let in the dog, as it were.
    Eos Amaterasu: allowing in the dropping
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: think that is spot on Eos... yes we are each quite unique
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I think of PaB as more than a place to explore, more than a place to be, but as a place to find who I am in relation to others, a deep place to be free and open and no judgments anywhere
    Bruce Mowbray really wants to "drop" his "leadership role" and so will now listen..... (to any and all comments....)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you for doing this Bruce; it's a good reminder of what we are about and what brings us to PaB
    Eliza Madrigal: nicely done facilitating Bruce, pre-session too
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Eliza.
    Bruce Mowbray: but on with the comments!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: because pauses/drops in RL are rare, this place and sessions are special
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
    Wol Euler nods.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I tend to forget what we are about....and it's nice to be reminded
    Arisia Vita: speaking of drops reminded me of the quote from Cloud Atlas... My life amounts to no more than one drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?
    Bruce Mowbray: wow!  + ty, Ari!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: beautiful Ari :)
    Eliza Madrigal: "and the ocean is also in the drop"~ lovely, Ari
    Aphrodite Macbain: a PAB LAB of awareness - drops in a big bucket
    Bruce Mowbray: (Notices that his typist is feeling "warm and accepted" right now.....)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bleu Oleander: it's interesting to go back and read the wiki under "about our meetings" and "basic ideas" somehow the lab aspect rarely show up in our sessions these days ... perhaps that's what has prompted us to take a look at PaB and where we are?
    Santoshima Resident: I'd like to add that this meatho of speaking in turn is very useful as a change from the usual pattern here. thank you for this today, Bruce
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, that lab aspect is key.... curiously it's a bit of a game aspect too
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes I likes it too :)
    Bruce Mowbray: yw, San....
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more on the "game aspect...."
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe seeing how each of us is uniquely working with PaB, is the insight needed to understand where the lab aspect went, or if it is just showing up differently?
    Eos Amaterasu: willing to consciously play, make up little rules, excursions, and also, for some of us, be somewhat systematic
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
    Bleu Oleander: yes, I think its the idea of performing an experiment with the idea that we can discuss the results that's an interesting aspect for me
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, nice Eos
    Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, San-ji!
    Zen Arado:I always thought the 90 secs was a way to introduce people to meditation for even a short period and hopefully they go on to do longer periods?
    Eliza Madrigal waves
    Zen Arado: bye Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: ?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am afraid RL Calls -I would be happy continue this conversation tomorrow at 1pm
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, Aph.
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Aphie
    Bruce Mowbray: THANK YOU!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aph
    Bleu Oleander: I don't view the 90 secs as meditation
    Zen Arado: byee Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: thank you everyone
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Aph, thnx
    Wol Euler: bye to those leaving
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think PaB ever had that agenda Zen, but for some maybe a taste that grows into other areas
    Raffila Millgrove: ty Bruce. ty all.
    Bruce Mowbray: Maybe several need to leave during the next drop.
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Aph


    Bruce Mowbray: and that is fine, of course.
    Bruce Mowbray: I just realized how precious to me are the presences of others...... (especially evident when they leave our circle.)
    Eliza Madrigal: nice drop :)
    Bruce Mowbray: so, goes back to listening.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Arisia Vita: and another nice thing about drops...no matter their individual size or sparkle, when they get together they merge and become one...
    Bleu Oleander: also from the wiki: So this is the added suggestion, in addition to "just relax," during our mini-breaks: "Drop what you have in order to see what you are." Play with your identities. Wear them lightly. No need to deny or ignore or suppress them; acknowledge them, but don't  let yourself get stuck to them. Rather than allowing yourself to get glued to your identities, enjoy a freedom from identification.
    Zen Arado: oh I thought it was a mini meditation period...not sure what it is otherwise
    Bleu Oleander: it's a chance to play
    Bruce Mowbray: That is really FINE, Zen: a mini-meditation period for you.... and also for me.... but for others?   Let's see!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: to be to see who and what we be in the light from the computer screen :)
    Bruce Mowbray listens (and reads back).
    Santoshima Resident: agreed Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: what you describe, Bleu, could be seen as contemplation.. opening to insight... spontaneity
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe meditation and contemplation are close words
    Zen Arado: maybe that's why I don't get it...I can't settle into meditation in such a short period
    Bleu Oleander: I'm just quoting the wiki
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: how everyone interprets and uses PaB is very subjective
    Bruce Mowbray: an excellent quote.
    Eos Amaterasu: "meditation" is such a loaded and multi-meaning-ed term... "drop" is hard enough :-)
    Eliza Madrigal nods nods
    Bruce Mowbray: For sure, Eos!
    Zen Arado: yeh that's true too Eos
    Wol Euler: my problem with the nine seconds wasn't being unable to drop into meditation, it was that it took me several minutes to climb back out of it
    Wol Euler: destroyed my productivity
    Zen Arado: ha yes Wol
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: well, like I thought meditative life would make me calmer and my life more orderly.. but that wasn't true either :)
    Bleu Oleander: dropping is not required ... It is enough for me to just relax and free up my attention during the pauses
    Qt Core: yeah, Others are bad enough at destroying mine ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: "Others"?
    Bruce Mowbray: Who is that?
    Qt Core: other people
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, I think I get it.  but being a hermit, not sure
    Eos Amaterasu: there's a kind of grandmother awareness, that lets all the children play
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bleu Oleander: "makes me calmer and my life more orderly" I would definitely buy something that did that! :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Zen Arado: I'm trying hard to be less regimented and time-bound
    Bleu Oleander: remembering my grandmother ... not sure she had great awareness going on LOL
    Zen Arado: work-life did that to me I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehhehee
    Bruce Mowbray: Can "drops" be different things for different people and still be consistent with the "PaB methodolgy"?
    Zen Arado: and school
    Eliza Madrigal nods Zen, can see that
    Bleu Oleander: sure Bruce
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Bleu Oleander: why not?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems the design of school.. to help us 'fit'
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more.
    Zen Arado: production lone mentality
    Zen Arado: line*
    Zen Arado: and lone :(
    Eliza Madrigal: good question Bruce ... I think we can safely say we have some data that shows they are
    Bleu Oleander: do we all have definite goals for participating in PaB?
    Bruce Mowbray: but.... a "laboratory," Eliza?
    Zen Arado: dehumanization of work/study practices..but I guess none of you worked on factory production lines
    Wol Euler: surely the PaB methodology is to explore the individual experience and appreciation of the world?`
    Wol Euler: so, yes
    Zen Arado: though it infiltrates other areas
    Santoshima Resident: yes, have done that, Zen
    Bruce Mowbray agrees totally with Wol on that.
    Eliza Madrigal: individual mind labs that come to compare data?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Santoshima Resident: most work life and school life are such
    Santoshima Resident: and the 'lone' you mentioned is poignant i think
    Zen Arado: remembers punching a hole in 1000 sheets of metal..then they brought another 1000
    Santoshima Resident: in relation to what we are discussing here
    Bruce Mowbray ponders the "lone."
    Eliza Madrigal nods...
    Bleu Oleander: a big part of PaB seems to be about being with friends and sharing a part of our lives together
    Bruce Mowbray: (also worked on a car parts factory production line for three years --- my LAST real job, alas.)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Bleu
    Zen Arado: yes that's it Bruce
    Santoshima Resident: the lone is perhaps what compels to be together
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Zen Arado: Henry Ford started it
    Catrinamonblue Resident: have such a different view of PaB it seems... not seeing it as a lab or experiment but as one of many, many ways of looking and seeing deeply into who we are.... or maybe I'm way off to be thinking of it that way
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "lone" as "that which compels us to be together."

    Bruce Mowbray: (and agrees!)  (especially as a hermit!)
    Eos Amaterasu: I think the lab part is, "let's all try this", and then report back on what happens, discuss that, from 1st hand experience
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Cat and from Eos.
    Eliza Madrigal: lab is just a metaphor... I relate to that too Cat :) the lab quality is that sense of seeing an experience or observation in an environment set apart
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you all soon
    Eliza Madrigal waves to Stevenaia
    Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, steve!
    Wol Euler: bye stevie, take care
    Zen Arado: bye Steve
    Bleu Oleander: I think your view is not different actually Cat, its just a different way of saying the same thing
    Santoshima Resident: salut stevie
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Steve
    Zen Arado: I better get back to production line :)
    Santoshima Resident: me too, into the day
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Wol Euler: "way of looking" is a synonym for "lab" in my book :)
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, Zen. THANKS!
    Eos Amaterasu: one must imagine Sysphus happy, zen
    Zen Arado: byee all
    Wol Euler: bye zen, work well
    Bleu Oleander: yes Wol :)
    Eliza Madrigal waves Zen and San :)
    Santoshima Resident: thank you all ~
    Zen Arado: ha yes Eos
    Bruce Mowbray: bye to all those good folks who are leaving.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye to those leaving :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Byee
    Bruce Mowbray: OH. That urt!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: hurt*
    Agatha Macbeth: It urt Mr Iggins
    Eos Amaterasu: just you w8
    Eliza Madrigal: that's what sacred means I think... set apart?
    Agatha Macbeth: Sacred or scared :p
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't mean in an ego-rejection sort of way, but more in a "shall the circle be unbroken" sort of way.


    Bruce Mowbray: (Every "drop" is also, potentially, a time that friends will depart....)
    Bruce Mowbray: so, perhaps a bit of grief there.
    Bruce Mowbray: but also a letting go.  Blessing and releasing.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes it's hard for those departing too :) I should have been off at the top of the hour and yet here I am still
    Wol Euler nods.
    Qt Core: i always wonder if 90 sec pauses after the first hour are to be observed ;-)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: and dinner remains uncooked :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.(for my typist too, Cat!)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Qt Core: and uneated too (isn't eating-time good for dropping ?)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: and sometimes after the session is over is when it opens up more... so doubly hard :)
    Eos Amaterasu: what about sense of mission, so to speak (which I think PaB as a lab had/could have....)
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Bleu Oleander: has our mission changed?
    Eos Amaterasu: some kind of pursuit or curiosity, that keeps manifesting, trying things
    Bruce Mowbray also listens for more on "sense of mission."
    Eos Amaterasu: that's subtly different from "bunch of friends to chat and drop with"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bleu Oleander: agree Eos
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not a big "hang out"-er
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: what is our mission, should we choose to accept it?
    Bleu Oleander: well we all seem to enjoy hanging out here :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :) yup
    Bruce Mowbray asks himself if what he's doing here is "hanging out."
    Catrinamonblue Resident: but I really must go now... hungry people to feed myself included :)
    Bleu Oleander: even when not experimenting with dropping we all seem to enjoy the ride
    Eliza Madrigal waves to Cat
    Wol Euler: bye cat, cook well
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye everyone :)
    Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, good Cat!
    Bleu Oleander: bye Cat
    Eos Amaterasu: chow chow, Cat
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Cat, love to sloppy joe
    Agatha Macbeth: No scraping today Brucie?
    Bruce Mowbray: Scraping can wait, aggers.
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce Mowbray: Priorities.
    Eliza Madrigal: it is a strange thing to try to articulate... the sense of coming here, openheartedly to explore...
    Bruce Mowbray: First the heart. Then the stomach.
    Bruce Mowbray: (contra Maslow!)
    Eliza Madrigal: which is different than just keeping up with facts about people
    Eliza Madrigal: I enjoy the facts...
    Eliza Madrigal: and want to keep in touch...
    Agatha Macbeth: What is fact anyway?
    Eliza Madrigal: but that's because underneath that there is this exploration  that has allowed me to feel connection
    Eliza Madrigal: and trust
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eos Amaterasu: I keep feeling I want to circulate this more through the RL world
    Bruce Mowbray: Trust is a big part of the whole thing, I feel.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bruce Mowbray: And how do you do that, Eos?
    Bruce Mowbray: (not to be personal.)
    Bleu Oleander: trust, friendship, conversation all a part of it I think
    Eos Amaterasu: well, one way we were doing that
    Eos Amaterasu: was when we were doing RL retreats
    Eos Amaterasu: but we need more light-weight ways of doing that, I feel
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Agatha Macbeth: There's another subject...
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
    Eos Amaterasu: that gets back to 9 sec pauses in RL
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Bruce Mowbray: kk!
    Eos Amaterasu: which was a semi-joke, on the square
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, nods
    Bleu Oleander: 1%
    Eos Amaterasu: a bit of playfulness with math, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: it sort of feels like an unpacked gift, in terms of RL
    Eliza Madrigal: which is nice enough :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I'm over-stimulated... there is a lot here
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "unpacked gifts" --- and anticipation....
    Bruce Mowbray: Me too, Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and so, I shall be a-scraping up RL din din now.
    Bruce Mowbray: THANKS to everyone for being here!
    Bleu Oleander: like a big dinner ... need to take a walk :)
    Eos Amaterasu: me too, dinner-making time
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce
    Wol Euler: bye bruce, thank you for this meeting
    Arisia Vita: yes, ty Bruce, and everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: bye everyone :) thanks so much
    Bleu Oleander: thanks all :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I bow to you - each and all.
    Qt Core: bye Bruce and ty
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Brucie, scrape well
    Wol Euler: bye eos, bye ari, bye bleu
    Eos Amaterasu: thanks all, enjoy you all so much, ciao
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy
    Bleu Oleander: byeee
    Eliza Madrigal: (((( ))))
    Qt Core: and everyone else leaving too
    Eliza Madrigal: am waiting for son to finish writing about "morality in gaming" then we are going for dinner :)
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Agatha Macbeth: Good heavens
    Wol Euler: interesting topic.
    Agatha Macbeth: Is there any?
    Wol Euler: I'd be curious to read what he says, if he would be willing
    Qt Core: interesting teacher
    Wol Euler: and would fully understand if not
    Qt Core: or whoever inspired that
    Eliza Madrigal: this is spontaneous. He says things I've never thought of in my life....
    Eliza Madrigal: but it 'matters' to him...
    Eliza Madrigal: so he's writing about the good/evil choices presented within a game
    Eliza Madrigal: and how that demands that one can't play as themself
    Eliza Madrigal: they have to play as a kind of puppet
    Agatha Macbeth: Guess kids can relate the topic that way
    Qt Core: main observation in gaming one could experiment with different approaches and see what comse out and how it feels


    Eliza Madrigal: but there is a game called "Papers Please" that has more complexity
    Qt Core: it seems a little pabbish ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah... lol
    Wol Euler: there's a difference between games like Lara Croft or the GTA series where you have to pretend to be the hero(ine)
    Wol Euler: and games like WoW where you can create your own character, which is "you"
    Wol Euler: at least that's my experience
    Wol Euler: pretending to be Lara was never nearly as involving as actually being Stabette
    Eliza Madrigal: there is something about the choices presented in the game.. and their limitations
    Eliza Madrigal: identity as being dictated in subtle ways
    Wol Euler: an interesting concept
    Wol Euler: whatever gets kids thinking is good :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) well, gets me thinking too...
    Agatha Macbeth: Depends what they're thinking about :p
    Wol Euler: it's all good, aggers :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm inclined to see this as he and his generation voicing the needs of our time more clearly
    Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully
    Eliza Madrigal: lol Aggers
    Wol Euler: I heard in a TED talk last week about two "serious games" which teach how to run refugee camps and how to organize an non-violent insurrection
    Eliza Madrigal: whoa
    Agatha Macbeth: Satyagraha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: and thought "Wow! If I'd heard that 25 years ago I'd have quit on the spot and gone to work for them"
    Agatha Macbeth: WB Steve
    Wol Euler: wb stevie
    Eliza Madrigal: yet... the ideal is sometimes so far from the implementation
    stevenaia Michinaga: the conversation continues
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Always does!
    Eliza Madrigal: which reminds me of something I was laughing at before coming here.... Wol saying "Even Jesus didn't get all he wanted/his way.." or something like that, lol
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie!
    Wol Euler: right :)
    Agatha Macbeth ponders
    Wol Euler: about feeling like a failure because of lack of accomplishment
    Wol Euler: Jesus' mission was to bring about love and peace. He failed.
    Agatha Macbeth: Seems he accomplished an awful lot to me
    Wol Euler: now, if even Jesus can fail, then surely you can cut yourself some slack :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if people will be quoting us in 2000 years
    Wol Euler: highly unlikely :)
    Eliza Madrigal: eeeek
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Those logs were built to last'
    Wol Euler: knock two zeroes off that and it's not at all less unlikely
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: wabi sabi
    Agatha Macbeth: Mega mega
    Eliza Madrigal: okay... son has stomped away from voice recorder...
    Eliza Madrigal: guess it is time to go eat
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Qt Core: enjoy, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: ♥ ♥ ♥
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now Liz ♥
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, bfn
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyway...
    Wol Euler: well, my dears, I think it's bedtime
    Wol Euler: take care, be happy and well-fed
    Agatha Macbeth: Yah
    Agatha Macbeth: Schlaf gut
    Wol Euler: huh, I can't even remember whether I was here this morning or not
    Wol Euler: it seems so long ago
    Wol Euler: ♥
    Wol Euler: goodnight!
    Agatha Macbeth: Almost certainly so!
    Agatha Macbeth: ♥
    stevenaia Michinaga: -is about to attempt my first Coursera course on Einstein (recommended to me) wish me luck
    Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT and Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi qt, missed you there by zooming too close
    stevenaia Michinaga: https://class.coursera.org/einstein-001/lecture/43


    Qt Core: bye Steve, sorry RL called

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    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself,
    Every man is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thy friend's
    Or of thine own were:
    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    And therefore never send to know
    for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.

    John Donne
    Posted 01:23, 23 Feb 2014
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