2016.11.17 13:00 - Heart Sutra: Sermons in Stones, Sacred Contexts and Dimensions

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

    heart sutra session november_005.jpg

    I'd like to add to my small presentation below, a note about my own motivations toward comparison of the teachings of various traditions. For whatever reason it has been important in my own life, to try to bring seemingly different backgrounds and traditions into the same room. Im especially feeling that lately. So if it seems a preoccupation, I will admit so. :) Thanks for patience.


    Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: how's it going today?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Aph :)
    Eliza Madrigal: oops, you got the tiny cushion
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Aph, Zen
    Zen Arado: Hi everybody
    Eliza Madrigal: nice outfit Aph.... textures
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks! It keeps me warm too :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: everyone doing well?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes thanks Eliza. How about you?
    Bleu Oleander: yes, you?
    Eliza Madrigal: well too, thanks
    Zen Arado: tired :(
    Zen Arado: SAD
    Eliza Madrigal: pobrecito....
    Eliza Madrigal: sad? seasonal disorder?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aww. why?
    Zen Arado: seasonla affective disorder
    Zen Arado: I think
    Eliza Madrigal: dreary there?
    Zen Arado: Hi Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
    Bleu Oleander: its still sunny in the 80's here :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: dreary here too
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks
    Zen Arado: general lethargy
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Mick
    Bleu Oleander: hi Mick
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Zen Arado: 3 C here
    Eliza Madrigal: sunny and 80s here too... cool in the mornings for walking... but I love dreary days when we get them
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 8C here
    Zen Arado: Hi Tura
    Mickorod Renard: hi Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: if they come many days in a row I guess it does wear one down a bit
    Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Tura



    Tura Brezoianu: hi all
    Mickorod Renard: tornado here today..at least a lil one
    Zen Arado: it gets dark at 4 pm
    Bleu Oleander: hi Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: yikes Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :)
    Zen Arado: yeh saw that on News
    Zen Arado: Hi druth
    druth Vlodovic: hey guys
    Bleu Oleander: hi druth
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya druth!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Cat :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Cat
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Cat
    Zen Arado: Hi Cat
    Catrinamonblue Resident: hello everyone :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eos!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :) Bruce :)
    Eos Amaterasu: HI AVs
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eos, Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Namaste, everyone.
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eos, Bruce



    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you all, and so on time that I think I'll just start if OK?
    Bruce Mowbray: Great.
    Zen Arado: Hi Eos, Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: My comments are meant to be a kind of synthesis of new study on my part and what we’ve talked about so far. So some will be recap, and some a tad new (to me) illumination...

    Eliza Madrigal: First of all I posted a different translation, not because it is 'better' but because it is different
    (see bottom of session for text)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for doing this Eliza
    Eos Amaterasu: "- for what could go wrong?"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: I liked the opening.... Avilokita is written as though in a kind of visionary trance state
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: or at least it felt more 'stage like' to me
    Bruce Mowbray listens.

    Eliza Madrigal: "Avalokita, the Holy Lord and Bodhisattva, was moving in the deep course of the Wisdom which has gone beyond. He looked down from on high, He beheld but five heaps, and He saw that in their own-being they were empty."

    Eliza Madrigal: Prajna – comes from a root which means ‘to know’ in Sanskrit. In this translation it is “the Wisdom which has gone beyond”, or, as Bruce said in our first session I think… it is pretty safe to say, Great Knowledge. I liked this phrase from a teacher named Sangharakshita, who will come up a few more times:

             “Knowledge that springs from a different dimension of consciousness.”

    Eliza Madrigal: Insight is also good term for our purposes. Or, another phrase he uses is:

                          "Reality, without hindrance of concepts about reality."

    Eliza Madrigal: (Idea being Sight-Through-concepts might free up or liberate/animate those concepts. When attached in certain ways, concepts seem more solid, non-negotiable, inflexible)

    Eliza Madrigal: Sariputra stands for wisdom in Hinayana or ‘intellectual’ sense. Hinayana is the ‘first turning of the wheel’ of the dharma. Then in the second turning of the wheel, Mahayana, that intellectual knowledge meets/becomes wisdom.  I mentioned this first session, but to elaborate, it is ‘about’ the process of intellectual understanding (represented by Sariputra who founded Abhidharma school that is a very complex break down of elements of reality into various categories and subcategories, etc) transforming into insight.
    Eliza Madrigal: One could also say surrendering to. . Or being devoted to. . Or, having priorities in order?

    Eliza Madrigal: Here is what I loved: The same teacher I quoted earlier said it this (paraphrased) way:

                       "It is about the Sariputra in us hearkening to the Avilokitesvara in us."

    Eliza Madrigal: He described it as a destruction of the former ‘way’, but my feeling is that it could be seen as an integration or unfolding of natural process … depending on what one thinks that means. I think it means to open up, to bring alive, to love.

    Even three times a day to offer
    Three hundred cooking pots of food
    Does not match a portion of the merit
    Acquired in one instant of love


    Eliza Madrigal: [one might think of the 'holy instant' in “Course in Miracles”, or “Flash bodhicitta”]
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles

    Eliza Madrigal: Which also conjures the Bible’s 1 Corinthians 13 (KJV). I hadn’t looked it up directly for a while previous to this, and was amazed at how beautiful a parallel really, when we consider something we’ve been talking about… what “perfection of wisdom” might really mean...

    Eliza Madrigal: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. . 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. . 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
    Eliza Madrigal: . 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, . 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; . 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; . 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
    Eliza Madrigal: . 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. . 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. . 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. . 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. . 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. . 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.   (In many translations ‘charity’ is love. I’m okay with either. ;-)

    Eliza Madrigal: Sangharakshita says also about the Heart Sutra, that the literary form speaks in terms of images and addresses the unconscious, while the content addresses conscious mind, but it is the same message. Wholeness? …. integration and inclusion. Opening, awakening... to what?

    Eliza Madrigal: The end of the sutra (or ‘take away jewel’) is a mantra of perfect wisdom…

    Gone from the conditioned (duality),
    Gone from the unconditioned (even the concept of nirvana, nonduality)
    Gone beyond the distinction of conditioned and unconditioned – all whatsoever
    Parasamgate – gone all together beyond (even the conception of reality, shunyata [emptiness] itself)

    Bodhi – means Knowledge of the Ultimate, or enlightenment/awakening
    [everything completely auspicious, perfect]

    Eliza Madrigal: This is recited repeatedly to assimilate its deep meaning, realizing its implications. 

    And, I think, for (en)courage/fearlessness, as in ‘Perfect love casts out fear’ (Bible), or other translations of Heart Sutra:
    Thus Bodhisattvas rely on the Perfection of Wisdom, 
    and so with no delusions, 
    they feel no fear, 
    and have Nirvana here and now... :)


    So, to close what I’m sorry if has sounded like a sermon, John Lennon:

     …No need to be afraid
    No need to be afraid
    It’s real love
    It’s real…


    Eliza Madrigal: References: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z14kswIiVcE (Real Love) https://www.freebuddhistaudio.com/au...details?num=73 (Free Buddhist Audio)


    Aphrodite Macbain: All we need is love?
    Eliza Madrigal: Done , sorry a bit long and maybe posted too fast
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes Aph
    Mickorod Renard: very nice Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: the pink box has the note in it, if I went too quickly...
    Zen Arado: thanks Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: but I think what I wanted was to convey a sense of the sutra and what the imparted reality might be
    Aphrodite Macbain: words in a box...
    Bruce Mowbray: Wow. Thank you Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Bruce want to start our circle today?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: so much to absorb....

    Bruce Mowbray: Sure.
    Bruce Mowbray: I am concerned about contexts during meditation practice.
    Eliza Madrigal grins at Cat and knows she gave abridged version
    Bruce Mowbray: Which elements of the context are contingent, which are required, where the dependencies lie if any.
    Bleu Oleander: (sorry, must slip out .. take care all)
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Bruce Mowbray: The Heart Sutra clearly states that its mantra is superior.
    Aphrodite Macbain: bye Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: I’m thinking that this may set up both a dependency-requirement as well as many contingencies (by which I mean other possible dependencies.)

    Bruce Mowbray: My meditative practice seems similar to intimate experiences -
    Bruce Mowbray: in that each one is unique with profound personal intensities,
    Bruce Mowbray: And both resist (or cease to exist) if the contexts are known before hand or follow some prearranged itinerary.


    Bruce Mowbray: And yet context seems, almost, to be everything - in both meditative practice and the deepest expressions of intimacy.
    Bruce Mowbray: Both connect us – potentially, in a feeling sense - with all that exists, has existed, or may ever exist.

    Aphrodite Macbain: can you give an example of context Bruce?
    Bruce Mowbray: in a minute, Aph...
    Aphrodite Macbain: k
    Bruce Mowbray: Like the room you're meditating in...
    Bruce Mowbray: or the bedroom you're making love in,
    Bruce Mowbray: or the cathedral,
    Bruce Mowbray: or the subway..
    Bruce Mowbray: OK?
    Aphrodite Macbain: kk thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: yw, my dear.
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: “Beyond” could suggest somewhere else in time and space, or it could suggest going far more deeply into THIS time and THIS space.
    Bruce Mowbray: Not so much moving toward or into the “sacred spaces” as transforming all possible contexts (and dimensions) into the Sacred.
    Bruce Mowbray: [done]

    Aphrodite Macbain: like a sacred subway
    Bruce Mowbray: indeed, just like that.
    Eliza Madrigal: really nice contemplation Bruce... ty
    Bruce Mowbray: ty.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lovely Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: sorry to type over the bell
    Eliza Madrigal: Cat?
    Bruce Mowbray: (me too.)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Just listening today
    Eliza Madrigal: :) k, sam... lol
    Eliza Madrigal: (kidding)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick? :)

    Mickorod Renard: I was going to be quiet..i will try to be short
    Mickorod Renard: I liked the charity bit..it reminded me of something
    Mickorod Renard:

    “My bounty is as boundless as the sea,
    My love as deep; the more I give to thee,
    The more I have, for both are infinite.”


    ? William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhh!
    Eliza Madrigal: ohh wonderful connection
    Mickorod Renard: thought u wud like that Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: for sure, thanks Mick!
    Zen Arado: nice Mick
    Eos Amaterasu: Root of shunya, as in shunyata, is "swollen", full, bountiful
    Mickorod Renard: on a personal basis..I find that the more I love the more I feel tormented by the compassion that has risen in me..I now find that this heart sutra is the only salvation for me..done
    Eliza Madrigal: <3
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you for your honesty, Mick.
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Mick
    Catrinamonblue Resident: hugs to you Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: salvation is such an interesting word when freed of usual contexts :) ty Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Tura?

    Tura Brezoianu: A few brief thoughts
    Tura Brezoianu: I don't think I understand emptiness yet
    Tura Brezoianu: I'm with Philip Dick: "Reality is that which, if you don't believe in it, it doesn't go away."
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Tura Brezoianu: If you don't see it, it's still there
    Tura Brezoianu: If you stare closely at a picture on your or computer with a magnifying glass, so all you can see is the pixels, the picture is still there.
    Tura Brezoianu: You're just looking at it, for the moment, in a way that doesn't let you see it
    Tura Brezoianu: So there are the five heaps of emptiness,
    Tura Brezoianu: but my self is still here, even though it may be made of them

    Tura Brezoianu: I came across a mention of a book called "The Heart Attack Sutra"
    Bruce Mowbray: !!
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Zen Arado: :)
    druth Vlodovic: :P
    Tura Brezoianu: Really! It's a commentary on the Heart Sutra
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Tura Brezoianu: You can find it on Amazon
    Tura Brezoianu: Apparently, according to one story, some arhats present when the Buddha was expounding the Heart Sutra left in horror, or went mad, or died.
    Bruce Mowbray: wow. ty!
    Tura Brezoianu: Not sure what to make of that :)
    Tura Brezoianu: I haven't encountered the existential basilisks yet
    Tura Brezoianu: (done)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Mickorod Renard: I think the reference was to emphasize the gravity of the subject

    Bruce Mowbray: https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Attack-...t+Attack+Sutra
    Aphrodite Macbain: tx Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, some of what I have come across is similarly intense in language... like, obliterating



    Eliza Madrigal: ty :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Eos?

    Eos Amaterasu: Hmmm
    Eos Amaterasu: Get this "can you say more" re what Bruce and what Mick said....
    Bruce Mowbray: ?
    Eos Amaterasu: Also re existential basilisks, not looking at anyone as they sip coffee in Parisian cafe
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: also wondering about the "mantra": "This is recited repeatedly to assimilate its deep meaning, realizing its implications."
    Eos Amaterasu: so not just chanting in whatever language, but in some language that you understand, so you can grok the meaning?
    Eos Amaterasu: (just saw Arrival, btw, re language changing perception - go see it!)
    Eliza Madrigal: on my list!
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to see ARRIVAL.

    Eos Amaterasu: my main approach these days is to not seek to find "emptiness", or "awareness", or "awake", but that it's sufficient to notice when it's not that
    Eos Amaterasu: and let what's left be itself, speak for itself,
    Eos Amaterasu: tra la
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: [done]

    Bruce Mowbray ponders letting the subway and the cathedral speak for themselves.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, eos!
    Eliza Madrigal: to answer a little re the mantra...
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel/felt that both the less familiar language and the music of that language is part of the experience of the jewel one carries with them... and the meaning that comes forward as one holds and turns it over (implications) whle meeting day to day moments..
    Eliza Madrigal: Aph? :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've been trying to grok what has been said and read

    Bruce Mowbray: speaking of the Bard and "jewels":

    Sweet are the uses of adversity,
    Which, like the toad,
    ugly and venomous,
    Wears yet a precious jewel in his head;

    And this our life,
    exempt from public haunt,
    Finds tongues in trees,
    books in the running brooks,
    Sermons in stones,
    and good in everything.

    I would not change it.


    heart sutra session november_001.jpg
    As You Like It, Act II, Scene 1
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: "Let it be."

    Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens....

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ive been trying to make sense of what has been said so far
    Aphrodite Macbain: and can only offer a perhaps simplistic take on it

    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps we are describing the middle path between two seeming opposites
    Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps emptiness - the context of emptiness -
    Aphrodite Macbain: is where opposites can be reconciled
    Aphrodite Macbain: feeling, thinking, the rational and the irrational
    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps that context is also love, where appearance of opposites disappear.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Done

    Eliza Madrigal: beautifully articulated Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh! Thank you, Aph. Sorry to interrupt you.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lovely Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-) np
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Zen Arado: Thanks Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Druth?
    druth Vlodovic: ty
    druth Vlodovic: was reading aphs since I spent her turn writing

    druth Vlodovic: imagining, imaging, constructing, defining, but also carrying it away from reality since no description is the thing the description creates space between you and the thing love and it's aspects, charity, compassion, companionship etc is not a description in order to talk about love you must first translate it, create an image of it, but in order to feel it you just do it is a real thing
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

    druth Vlodovic: fear and suffering is internal to the mind and body, so it is not always about the thing often when people confront a fear they find that much of it was illusory, or that much of the tension vanishes without trace when confronted so the fear is the thing which is no longer there when you cease to believe in it
    druth Vlodovic: perhaps emptiness is just an acknowledgment that reality is much smaller and less crowded than our experience of it
    druth Vlodovic: next

    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks druth :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: WOw. Thanks, druth!
    Zen Arado: nods
    Bruce Mowbray loves "less crowded."
    Eliza Madrigal: no longer believe in it....nods... maybe another take on 'empty from its own side'
    Mickorod Renard: ty druth
    Eliza Madrigal: ty
    Eliza Madrigal: ready Zen? :)
    Zen Arado: kk

    Zen Arado: Maybe it's about the emptiness of words?



    Zen Arado: that bible passage reminded me of how English has changed re the word 'charity'
    Zen Arado: it isn't even just giving now but a special kind of giving
    Zen Arado: I had a frend who only read the KIng James versio of the bible
    Zen Arado: and wouldn't admit how much the language hs changed
    Zen Arado: though it is wonderfully poetic
    Zen Arado: 'through a glass darkly'
    Zen Arado: so expressive
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

    Zen Arado: I remember reading a story about an expert on the Diamond Sutra
    Zen Arado: he had a cartload of commentaries
    Zen Arado: one day a little old lady (wouldn't you know) asked him a question on it
    Zen Arado: he didn't know the answer so he burned all his commentaries :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
    Aphrodite Macbain likes little old ladies

    Zen Arado: this sutra seems a bit like a giant koan
    Zen Arado: with lots of little koans that seem like they are explaining things
    Zen Arado: my best guess is that we can't say what any of this is' as Darryl Bailey says
    Zen Arado: done

    Eliza Madrigal: fireworks in sky :)
    Bruce Mowbray: @ Zen: re, "through a glass darkly" -- To the 17th Century translators, the term "glass" meant "mirror" .... So, perhaps, now I see MYSELF vaguely.... or myself reflected darkly....
    Zen Arado: yes Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: interesting
    druth Vlodovic: a different take on the quote
    Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for your offering, Zen.
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, too
    Aphrodite Macbain: wonder what they say in French

    Eliza Madrigal: the 'picture' of the sutra could be viewed as meditation I suppose... bones of the body, or if you relate to chakras... considering the intimacy of practice mentioned
    Bruce Mowbray: It just expands and expands.....
    Eliza Madrigal: what wonderful comments. Would anyone like to follow up on some of the 'say more's Eos mentioned? :)


    Bruce Mowbray: I hope tht one of these sessions someone might comment on using the mantra as an anchor, a reminder, a central focus... something that helps us to stay present.
    Eliza Madrigal: Would you like to begin next week with that Bruce?
    Aphrodite Macbain: you just did Bruce! :-)
    Bruce Mowbray: That's how it "works" for me.... and I am very pedestrian with all of this.
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh gee....
    druth Vlodovic: well, present where?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: OK, I will do that, Eliza.
    druth Vlodovic: actually yes, I find the concept is confusing so lets
    Aphrodite Macbain: here
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much

    Mickorod Renard: what could we do as homework?
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: try using it as a mantra
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Bruce Mowbray: This mantra in the Heart Sutra, yes.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Eliza Madrigal nods.. practice, for those comfortable or excited about that :))
    Eliza Madrigal: and take a few notes
    Mickorod Renard: I think I do but using other words....no i wont and no its not my problem and no I have no money
    Aphrodite Macbain: I always think of a mantra as something short and easily repeated. It would be interesting to use a longer one

    Eos Amaterasu: [13:10] Eliza Madrigal:

    Gone from the conditioned (duality),
    Gone from the unconditioned (even the concept of nirvana, nonduality)
    Gone beyond the distinction of conditioned and unconditioned – all whatsoever
    Parasamgate – gone all together beyond (even the conception of reality, shunyata [emptiness] itself)
    Bodhi – Knowledge of the Ultimate, or enlightenment/awakening [everything completely auspicious, perfect]

    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Aph, or just the sound "Gate"
    Zen Arado: it's easier to chant in Japanese
    Eos Amaterasu: Gaté
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Gone, Gone, Gone beyond beyond.
    Eliza Madrigal: may want to hear some audios... or at least one
    Aphrodite Macbain: poof
    Bruce Mowbray: :)

    Mickorod Renard: sometimes I think I feel it..when you see the perfection and the bad bits blend into the whole and no longer matter
    Zen Arado: yes you have to stress each syllable
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods, yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: no more bad bits....
    Bruce Mowbray: Powerful stuff.
    Zen Arado: but there are different versions
    druth Vlodovic: we need a poet to make the heart sutra for us in english
    Eliza Madrigal: intimacy of practice
    Mickorod Renard: great idea Druth
    Eos Amaterasu: Wallace Stevens
    druth Vlodovic: poetry is different from other arrangementys of words and enhances the experiecne of learning or saying something
    Aphrodite Macbain: nice
    Bruce Mowbray loves Wallace Stephens' poetry.
    Bruce Mowbray: Stevens, sry.
    Aphrodite Macbain: singing is also nice
    Aphrodite Macbain: or chanting
    Eliza Madrigal: please add a Stevens poem or two to the log when I post :)
    Eliza Madrigal: or here if you have it handy... like a jewel in your pocket...
    Mickorod Renard: shakespearian unrhymed iambic


    druth Vlodovic: I wonder if there are english songs about heart sutra
    Eos Amaterasu and his trillions of bacteria need to Gaté
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao bellissimi
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe - using different words
    Aphrodite Macbain: Biao
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...bye Eos
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ciao also
    Eliza Madrigal: and Bruce
    druth Vlodovic: the multitude os eos goes away :,(
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye fr now, good people.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Eos and Bruce :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I must move on..thank you very much
    Mickorod Renard: bye everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Mick... be well
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Mick :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and happy
    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeee
    druth Vlodovic: we need a dinger on the fountain that automatically teleports people away on the hour
    druth Vlodovic: ttfn all :)

    Eliza Madrigal: am so full from these sessions that I need to sit here for a few minutes before going :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: me too Eeliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Aph and Druth
    Zen Arado: bye all that's going
    Eliza Madrigal: like shavasana (sp?)
    Tura Brezoianu: time to go altogether beyond :)
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Tura and Zen :) thank you, sincerely
    Tura Brezoianu: thanks all
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Tura , Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: beyond, all together, la la lalala


    Then Cat and I chatted a little while, til settled :)




    Heart Sutra (translation by E. Conze)

    Om Homage to the Perfection of Wisdom the Lovely, the Holy!

    Avalokita, the Holy Lord and Bodhisattva, was moving in the deep course of the Wisdom which has gone beyond.

    He looked down from on high, He beheld but five heaps, and He saw that in their own-being they were empty.

    Here, O Sariputra,

    form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form ;

    emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form,

    the same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses, and consciousness.

    Here, O Sariputra,

    all dharmas are marked with emptiness ;

    they are not produced or stopped, not defiled or immaculate, not deficient or complete.

    Therefore, O Sariputra,

    in emptiness there is no form nor feeling, nor perception, nor impulse, nor consciousness ;

    No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind ; No forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touchables or objects of mind ; No sight-organ element, and so forth, until we come to :

    No mind-consciousness element ; There is no ignorance, no extinction of ignorance, and so forth, until we come to : There is no decay and death, no extinction of decay and death. There is no suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path.

    There is no cognition, no attainment and no non-attainment.

    Therefore, O Sariputra,

    it is because of his non-attainmentness that a Bodhisattva, through having relied on the Perfection of Wisdom, dwells without thought-coverings. In the absence of thought-coverings he has not been made to tremble,

    he has overcome what can upset, and in the end he attains to Nirvana.

    All those who appear as Buddhas in the three periods of time fully awake to the utmost, right and perfect Enlightenment because they have relied on the Perfection of Wisdom.

    Therefore one should know the prajnaparamita as the great spell, the spell of great knowledge, the utmost spell, the unequalled spell, allayer of all suffering, in truth -- for what could go wrong ? By the prajnaparamita has this spell been delivered. It runs like this :

    gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha.

    ( Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail ! -- )

    This completes the Heart of perfect Wisdom.

    heart sutra session november_012.jpg

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    Viewing 2 of 2 comments: view all
    sorry I had to leave early ... lovely session!
    thanks for organizing this Eliza!
    Posted 23:29, 17 Nov 2016
    Very happy you feel that way, Bleu. I'm learning so much from everyone!
    Posted 01:12, 18 Nov 2016
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