2018.01.08 13:00 - Mick tells it like it is

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.


    Agatha Macbeth: Lizzie ♥
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Agatha))))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: How's thee?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, thanks. You?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bit chilly
    Eliza Madrigal: well you have no closed shoes on
    Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth thwops you
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Agatha Macbeth: Is George well?
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you use Mouselook when in SL?
    Agatha Macbeth: Rarely
    Eliza Madrigal: he's doing very well, lots of excitement for him recently, visitors and such, so happy pup
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!
    Agatha Macbeth: Owdo Mick
    Agatha Macbeth: Oi come back
    Eliza Madrigal: I was asking about mouselook because I've been learning to use Active Presenter, but want to/need to learn to use zoom. So I think I must learn to mouselook better
    Agatha Macbeth: We're over here
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, a side issue :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiyaaaa
    Agatha Macbeth: When I want to look close at something I usually just use alt click
    Eliza Madrigal: me too, normally
    Agatha Macbeth: That's better than mouselook IMO
    Eliza Madrigal: It just isn't so clear, with the arrow showing
    Mickorod Renard: ah, sorted
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe I can get rid of that
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How are contractions Mick?
    Agatha Macbeth: Arrow?
    Mickorod Renard: got a bit complex there with a little one arriving down from bed with tales of creaking floorboards and opening doors
    Eliza Madrigal: Always exciting
    Agatha Macbeth: Harry Potter strikes again
    Mickorod Renard: still holding on,,I am sure no birth for a couple of weeks at least
    Mickorod Renard: its my pipes creaking from expansion
    Eliza Madrigal: With 3rd pregnancy I had more false alarms and braxton hicks contractions
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure why... larger baby I guess :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Toni?
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah, groovy baby....
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: this is her 4th but for some reason I am still the expert..dont know why
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: She should know what she's doing then
    Eliza Madrigal: she is/they are super lucky
    Eliza Madrigal: to have so much help and support
    Mickorod Renard: one day she will realize what a fool I am
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: brb coffee finished, but I did read almost the rest of the book ^.^
    Agatha Macbeth: There's no fool like...
    Mickorod Renard: I only fathered one and did first aid for 6 years
    Mickorod Renard: hardly experienced
    Agatha Macbeth: Were the two connected?#
    Mickorod Renard: nah
    Mickorod Renard: well, busy here today
    Mickorod Renard: I may have to announce that this thursday may be my last
    Mickorod Renard: you read the ;last of the book? wow eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: aw, last session hosting, Mick, but not attending?
    Eliza Madrigal: Thursdays may fall away... but not sure what else can be done.
    Mickorod Renard: might be both,,will need to prioratize what i am doing
    Agatha Macbeth: Busy boy
    Eliza Madrigal: wow
    Mickorod Renard: need some captivating subject matter
    Mickorod Renard: what goes on on other sessions ran by pab?
    Eliza Madrigal: This book has been great, but two sessions a week has scattered attention
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe
    Mickorod Renard: I think it may have,,but the idea to accomodate more was good
    Eliza Madrigal: Um.... good question. :) Morning sessions are warm and lively, sharing life, jazzily bantering
    Mickorod Renard: but even some that were accomodated drifted away
    Eliza Madrigal: these afternoon sessions have been more focused
    Eliza Madrigal nods, true
    Eliza Madrigal: One never knows I guess... immediate response of YES let's do this!
    Eliza Madrigal: but then life happening :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Dream sessions will go on for a while more too
    Mickorod Renard: I am convinced that the book was drawn out
    Eliza Madrigal: how so?
    Mickorod Renard: well, i was supprised that in the end the focus was the same as the start,,no secret..just debate of whether it was literal or not
    Eliza Madrigal nods, can see that
    Mickorod Renard: and noone here really began thinking it was literal
    Eliza Madrigal: not literal but meaningful
    Eliza Madrigal: It actually softened my heart a little...
    Agatha Macbeth: I still don't :p
    Mickorod Renard: still don't what Ags?
    Agatha Macbeth: See it literally
    Mickorod Renard: no, it wasn't to make u think it was literal, the opposite
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah it worked then!
    Mickorod Renard: but we didnt anyway
    Agatha Macbeth: Would you Adam & Eve it
    Mickorod Renard: so it was a reaffermation of what we thought anyway
    Agatha Macbeth: Looks so
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonder where Bruce is?
    Mickorod Renard: a bit like a large book on how to do a boiled egg
    Agatha Macbeth: Yolk's on you
    Mickorod Renard: glad i read it tho
    Mickorod Renard: and artistically I liked it
    Eliza Madrigal: I have loved the language, and the richness of thought
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: but i think we need some challenging topic
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a quote from the last chapter as illustration.
    Eliza Madrigal: "What we receive from our archaic forebears are not divine chastisements, but rather the living traces of successful accommodations our species made to the world over tens of thousands of years. Hence our sexual division of labor, our craving for sugar and animal fat, our mastery of fire, and our capacity for extreme violence take their place alongside our subtle social skills, our toolmaking, our expressive powers in language and imagery, all of which contributed to survival in a harsh, dangerous environment.
    Eliza Madrigal: it is awe-striking in its way
    Eliza Madrigal: same as faith
    Mickorod Renard: yes, much comes around to the same...a hand in hand thing
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: what does worry me though, is whether mankind make a leap from how we opperated to something more sinister
    Agatha Macbeth: In what way?
    Mickorod Renard: I hear alot folk saying about war caused by religion..but I dont buy it
    Eliza Madrigal: nor I
    Mickorod Renard: its power mongering
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it stops it too
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Mickorod Renard: and the mongerers look for division,,in any form
    Eliza Madrigal: people war over resources, and in that sense power-over becomes important
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: most religions, if taken for the unspoilt aspect generally project love for one another
    Eliza Madrigal: giving tools and stories of compassion
    Eliza Madrigal: bridges
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: so what is the role of faith and devotion in, not a post Adam and Eve world?
    Eliza Madrigal: *-not
    Mickorod Renard: I am not sure the world is ready for a uniformal automated clinical set of rules
    Eliza Madrigal: Devotion is a word I love and am really drawn to, but which I never feel there is a way to talk about in PaB
    Eliza Madrigal: when I got here almost 9 years ago, I had a chip on my shoulder about the word 'faith' but have broken through to some openness with that
    Mickorod Renard: I would like you to say more Eliza, but dont want to push
    Eliza Madrigal: it is just not easy to articulate, and sometimes when we begin to talk in that direction there is a need to be so....hm....
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Eliza Madrigal: definite in thwarting ahead of time, the literal aspects
    Mickorod Renard: many of these words have several meanings depending on context
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i agree
    Eliza Madrigal: purposefully, I'm devoted to a kind of openness, but at the heart of that openness is a seed of faith or wonder
    Mickorod Renard: I am the worst because even tho I am english my mastery of the language is quite poor
    Mickorod Renard: I talk from the heart,,maybe its like what you are trying to say Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: it is
    Mickorod Renard: I trust that folk will understand my well meaning..and i have a faith in that
    Eliza Madrigal: the way faith is mixed with a kind of romance is probably what I mean by devotion
    Mickorod Renard: but i may well say things wrong
    Mickorod Renard: i think I am similar there Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Solomon writing to his beloved, Jesus washing feet of disciples, Rumi and Hafiz, Tagore... yes I think so too
    Eliza Madrigal: even dropping literalism the aliveness keeps unfolding and sometimes one wants to follow or allow that
    Mickorod Renard: well yes, because it talks to that part of you that wants to hear it
    Eliza Madrigal: so to sum up I think this book did a good job of framing a question for those of us who are devoted and yet bereft of sure place for that due to passionate doubting
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: in the book Darwin loosed his desire for poetry
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: that was interesting, what did you think?
    Mickorod Renard: I find I am fighting that in a sort of sandbox almost hidden in my head
    Mickorod Renard: a sort of voice saying become practical,,but my other romanitic side saying no, i love the as you say it romance
    Mickorod Renard: without it i fear life would loose its beuty, like all the colours go off the trees and flowers
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm... as for Darwin. He described his mind in a kind of mechanical way
    Eliza Madrigal: yet obviously there was wonder in discovery
    Eliza Madrigal: and in seeing ahead of his time
    Eliza Madrigal: it may touch on the sexism discussion too... because people fear losing the playfulness of push and pull should there be so many rules and definitions, but maybe it is a learning curve...a case of generational gaps
    Eliza Madrigal: Piet/Pema wrote something interesting today...
    Eliza Madrigal: on the yhouse blog
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: he said that it isn't that people want to go back to another better time necessarily,
    Agatha Macbeth: Waht's yhouse?
    Eliza Madrigal: but that they want to return to the slower pace
    Mickorod Renard: a drop inj in ny
    Eliza Madrigal: let me get a link and a better quote
    Mickorod Renard: I think we may do that naturally..as mechanisation takes a firmer hold... the dynamics of controlling the 'masses'(people) become deeply problomatic tho
    Eliza Madrigal: but in a more deliberate way?
    Mickorod Renard: technology should allow us to slow down but the establishment has a need to keep us busy
    Eliza Madrigal: Yhouse - Piet's blog: "However, it is not so much the past that people are nostalgic for, it is the past rate of change, which was slower, providing stability, when sloshing was the exception, rather than the rule."
    Eliza Madrigal: https://www.yhousenyc.org/yhouse-blo...scale-crossing
    Mickorod Renard: ty eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Sloshing?
    Eliza Madrigal: the sloshing term is explained in the article, lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Eliza Madrigal: he starts off talking about the balances of time we keep in doing simple things like walking across the room with coffee
    Mickorod Renard: to save us reading this second could you overview sloshing?
    Eliza Madrigal: That's my best shot, since he's writing about scientific concepts bridging our sense of things
    Eliza Madrigal: sloshing coffee :)
    Mickorod Renard: ah I see
    Mickorod Renard: so he means we could slow down by becoming more efficient?
    Eliza Madrigal: "time-scale crossing"
    Eliza Madrigal: it links in with other articles on the blog.
    Eliza Madrigal: anyway, sort of (another) side issue but came to mind
    Mickorod Renard: companies, that like to make money,,expect an output for pay..if folk slow down they take the work to a country where they pay less..if u are in us or uk u have to work for the money
    Eliza Madrigal: thus the focus on you are what you DO
    Mickorod Renard: some folk have little lkife beyond their work
    Mickorod Renard: it becomes total absorbsion
    Eliza Madrigal: propagating division between making a living and making a life
    Mickorod Renard: they ran two types of studies,,well maybe hundreds but for sake of chat two
    Mickorod Renard: one was ask where everyone wanted to live...australia
    Mickorod Renard: then they asked in another,,where is everyone most content
    Eliza Madrigal: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :D :p :D :p :D
    Mickorod Renard: and it was somewhere like dominical republic
    Eliza Madrigal: oops, sorry
    Agatha Macbeth: Liz had a wee
    Eliza Madrigal: why Australia?
    Mickorod Renard: cos the disparity between those that have and those that didnt was so slight
    Eliza Madrigal: ahh
    Mickorod Renard: dominican repub was best
    Eliza Madrigal: like the studies that show it isn't how much people have, but where in their social hierarchy they fall
    Eliza Madrigal: has to do with dignity
    Mickorod Renard: austaralia was what peple thought was best.,ie the grass greener on the other side
    Mickorod Renard: yes Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I always think of places like Iceland and Sweden or Switzerland
    Mickorod Renard: and that also gives a feeling of securirty too
    Mickorod Renard: in the boat with everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: sense of human family tribe as being close to distinct family tribes
    Eliza Madrigal: makes perfect sense
    Mickorod Renard: rather than left behind or outside
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the longing perhaps... safety
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i am sure of it
    Eliza Madrigal: without which no progress happens (maslow)
    Mickorod Renard: and safety often starts wars too,,as its a reaction to threat
    Mickorod Renard: isnt the top of maslows that lovely word i aim for?..i forgot it
    Eliza Madrigal: good question Mick... not sure. equanimity and bliss maybe are closely related
    Mickorod Renard: altuism was the woord i was looking for
    Eliza Madrigal: aha!
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Mickorod Renard: we discussed it before
    Mickorod Renard: I think , because as a group we are stereotypically leaning in that direcrtion,,we dont get into debate too much
    Eliza Madrigal: :P
    Eliza Madrigal: that's true
    Eliza Madrigal: we're not a debate group
    Mickorod Renard: that too
    Mickorod Renard: I think I have to slip away..stuff to do,,clear up mess..usual..kids
    Eliza Madrigal: me too actually
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: took all the xmas deco down today
    Mickorod Renard: boo hoo
    Eliza Madrigal: aw
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is still cold, so wintery
    Mickorod Renard: i have left it up till easter before
    Eliza Madrigal: @@
    Agatha Macbeth: Took mine down on Jan 1
    Eliza Madrigal: I didn't put up a tree this year
    Eliza Madrigal: but we always take it down before Jan 1... or almost always
    Mickorod Renard: yes?..we stick to the 12 day rule
    Mickorod Renard: thereabouts
    Eliza Madrigal: 12 day rule?
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,see ya around guys
    Agatha Macbeth: Seems depressing to leave em up longer
    Eliza Madrigal: okay nice to see you Mick, Aggers
    Mickorod Renard: happy skating
    Agatha Macbeth: Ave fun
    Mickorod Renard: see ya Ags
    Eliza Madrigal: (((aggers))))

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