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    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.

     


    Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks
    Bleu Oleander: hi Aph, Mick, Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick, Aph too :)
    Mickorod Renard: soz am late
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: I was away... signed on then dog squeaked to go out
    Eliza Madrigal: but back :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Tura Aph
    Tura Brezoianu: hi all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hy Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: Happy New year to those I haven't said that to yet
    Mickorod Renard: phew, claimed the log
    Mickorod Renard: yayyy..happy new year
    Bleu Oleander: yes, happy new year!!
    Eliza Madrigal: happy new year :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's already11 days old
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: soon to be the year of the dog
    Bleu Oleander: woof
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what are the dog's characteristics?
    Mickorod Renard: and for some creatures thats a lifetime
    Eliza Madrigal: I think earth dog.
    Bleu Oleander: don't tell Zoey that!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: is she a handful Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: YEP
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: more than other puppies?
    Mickorod Renard: what breed Blue?
    Eliza Madrigal: um, not sure all of them Aph, but loyalty is one
    Bleu Oleander: 70 lbs of puppy brain
    Eliza Madrigal: omgoodness
    Aphrodite Macbain: Impressive
    Bleu Oleander: Bernese Mountain Dog
    Tura Brezoianu: a lot of dog
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: she's just 10 mos
    Mickorod Renard: yikes
    Aphrodite Macbain: will she double in size?
    Eliza Madrigal recalls a recent photo shared of someone's ottoman taken as dog toy
    Bleu Oleander: hopefully not Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Mickorod Renard: is that like a st bernard?
    Bleu Oleander: somehow we missed the small window of opportunity to get her under control before she got big LOL
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, like me with my kids
    Eliza Madrigal: ^.^
    Bleu Oleander: haha!
    Tura Brezoianu: so it takes you for a walk?
    Bleu Oleander: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: she's gorgeous though, has a very sweet face
    Eliza Madrigal: must be hard to draw limits
    Bleu Oleander: she is ... ty!
    Bleu Oleander: yes a challenge
    Mickorod Renard: them st bernars you put a barrel of spirits around its neck..so u have a mobile bar
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like one would need one
    Bleu Oleander: fortunately they're not as big as St. Bernards
    Mickorod Renard: you could put an honesty box on too and make some money
    Eliza Madrigal: what's that Mick?
    Bleu Oleander: and she definitely doesn't have that work ethic! haha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: its just a box that folk put money in for a product without seeing a shop person
    Eliza Madrigal: new term for me :)
    Mickorod Renard: I bet you have them at side of road for folks buying corn cobs in the countryside
    Mickorod Renard: brb..kid feeling sick
    Eliza Madrigal: :(
    --BELL--
    Aphrodite Macbain: In rural areas, they have them here for baked goods, fruit, or veggies that are at the end of thir driveway. Like book
    Aphrodite Macbain: s
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt!
    Qt Core: Hi all!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Qt :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Qt! Good to see you
    Mickorod Renard: back,,hi QT
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are we done with Adam and Eve? I've lost track
    Mickorod Renard: ah A and E
    Aphrodite Macbain: them too
    Mickorod Renard: yes, today is the last day
    Bleu Oleander: time for a new book in the new year?
    Mickorod Renard: if we have anything to offer fire away
    Mickorod Renard: I don't think I can offer to be host
    Eliza Madrigal: Is this the last day you can host Thursdays, Mick?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've been using my KIndle to read the book but I think I'll buy the hard copy. It's a great reference book.
    Mickorod Renard: for another book
    Mickorod Renard: yes I like the hard copy
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like thqt it losts othr creation stories out there.
    Aphrodite Macbain: lists not losts
    Eliza Madrigal: I've finished the book. All (well, a lot of) the alternate stories we were looking for earlier in the reading are there at the end, loved that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Bleu Oleander: yes me too
    Mickorod Renard: this book sort of rounds off with him visiting Ruanda and the monkey aopes
    Aphrodite Macbain: The Bible isnt the only religious book
    Aphrodite Macbain: you visited Ruwanda?
    Eliza Madrigal: I can see how he was fascinated and immersed in his subject matter but I'm not sure his energy for it translated as well at the end as through most of the rest...
    Eliza Madrigal: or at least I found myself zoning out a lot more and then going back.
    Eliza Madrigal: until the very end
    Bleu Oleander: I loved that he included Wrangham's work
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- it was hard to come up with a great ending to the story, It sort of peters out.
    Mickorod Renard: I felt a bit awkward with this one due to its religious references..as Pab was sort of designed to avoid religion in that depth I think
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that as long as we don't push one releigion over another, it's fine
    Mickorod Renard: but I find all religious stuff interesting,,regardless of any leaning personally
    Eliza Madrigal: we've talked a lot about questioning assumptions, and this was a book that uncovered dormant assumptions in society
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes, well said
    Bleu Oleander: I think this is much bigger than religion
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bleu Oleander: its about our human story(ies)
    Bleu Oleander: and the role of myths in cultures
    Aphrodite Macbain: and the beliefs that run us
    Mickorod Renard: I think many religious readings are human stories but hijacked by religious institutions
    Bleu Oleander: its fascinating how the human origin story keeps evolving
    Mickorod Renard: in what way Bleu?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- the more we know, the more it changes
    Bleu Oleander: lightyears away from when people wrote the Adam and Eve story
    Mickorod Renard: ah I see, yes with our greater understanding
    Bleu Oleander: there's just so much more now
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been listening to a few things that center around perception, and adaptation, and the way people focus in on/see what they need to as part of the human 'collective drama, or even hallucination
    Aphrodite Macbain: or a different understanding anyway...
    Aphrodite Macbain: what have u been listening to Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: wherever they are particularly situated. In our time we're not so limited to one place
    Mickorod Renard: interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: today I listened to a podcast on consciousness
    Eliza Madrigal: a talk with Anil Dash  Seth
    Aphrodite Macbain: and?
    Eliza Madrigal: that was part of what was discussed - long show, but you can see how limited perceptions, even false perceptions, have perhaps served humanity
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you ever listen to Krista Tippets pod casts "On Being"?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: she discusses this subject a lot
    Aphrodite Macbain: I really enjoy them
    Eliza Madrigal: I did listen to that for a while
    Mickorod Renard: not that long ago our forebares lived on a wing and a prayer..they had little control over their luck in life as wealthy landowners could dictate whatever
    Bleu Oleander: consciousness breaks down into many sub-categories these days
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: mhm, all very interesting
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: landowners, and maybe more in your face, weather
    Mickorod Renard: It brings to mind for me..a question of at what point in our evolution can be call ourselves humans as we understand human?
    Aphrodite Macbain ponders California and in your face weather
    Eliza Madrigal nods sadly
    Bleu Oleander: homo erectus Mick :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and homo sapiens
    Tura Brezoianu: Julian Jaynes claimed that consciousness is only a few thousand years old.
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
    Mickorod Renard: he he ..but how developed were they in a thinking way?
    Aphrodite Macbain: How can he know?
    Mickorod Renard: ah ty Tura yes
    Tura Brezoianu: His claim is disputed, to say the least :)
    Bleu Oleander: about 2 million years ago
    Aphrodite Macbain: right Bleu
    Tura Brezoianu: he looked at the ancient Greek myths, when the gods talked to people
    Mickorod Renard: a bit like whoever wrote A and E
    Aphrodite Macbain: a scribe in the 3rd century ad?
    Mickorod Renard: so I spoze the notion of Gods was due to being out of control of the environment?
    Bleu Oleander: A and E was probably about 3,000 - 4,000 years ago ... only written down in the 6th C BCE
    Bleu Oleander: I think I've shared this link before, but worth a look if you haven't seen it ... https://iho.asu.edu/
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was passed along in oral tradition
    Mickorod Renard: I have felt during this book reading thatI have prefered to think of A and E in that shorter time line
    Aphrodite Macbain: Written during the time of Solomon, I think
    Bleu Oleander: and this one too: http://www.becominghuman.org/
    Mickorod Renard: when man became more elevated in thought
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Bleu!
    Mickorod Renard: thanks Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: fun sites to explore
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether she is human
    Aphrodite Macbain: or just a spark in her creator's brain
    Mickorod Renard: has anyone here done a dna roots check?
    Aphrodite Macbain: nope
    Bleu Oleander: nope
    Mickorod Renard: not me
    Mickorod Renard: I did wonder about it
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, weirdly I just did that... but it was so vague
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm not sure how useful it would be
    Mickorod Renard: can u tell us more?
    Tura Brezoianu: I've had my genome read, twice, although it doesn't tell me much
    Eliza Madrigal: my sister (half sister) did hers recently, so I followed suit
    Mickorod Renard: or if its private no worries
    Eliza Madrigal: what did you find Tura?
    Bleu Oleander: its not that developed yet
    Aphrodite Macbain: They advertise it all the time on TV
    Bleu Oleander: but yes, makes money
    Eliza Madrigal: I wish I'd found out enough for it to show something I'd rather keep private, lol
    Aphrodite Macbain: Had it helped you understand yourself more Eliza?
    Tura Brezoianu: Once was by 23andMe. I don't have any of the big bad mutations that they test for.
    Mickorod Renard: in family history my lineage is rather broken,,with absconding change names and adoption before records
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the most extensive I think
    Aphrodite Macbain: That would be a relief Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a big project to show how all lineages connect and overlap eventually
    Aphrodite Macbain: we all have a bit of Neanderthal in us....
    Mickorod Renard: grunts
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Bleu Oleander: those early humans fooled around LOL
    Tura Brezoianu: They also tell me about genetic relatives in their database, but so far no-one closer than about 4th cousin, so probably just random noise.
    Bleu Oleander: some things never change haha!
    Eliza Madrigal: not having a relationship with my father's side, I hoped to see something interesting
    Aphrodite Macbain: did you?
    Mickorod Renard: thanks Tura for sharing
    Mickorod Renard: I guess it would take a majority take up to give gerat results
    Eliza Madrigal: I do know my cousins/aunt and uncle now, but distantly. Not much to see from the tests, a little Ukraine, which I didn't know about :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: cool
    Mickorod Renard: ah
    Mickorod Renard: brb..banging upstairs
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to do the more extensive test eventually, but will wait for them to get a little better
    Aphrodite Macbain: I spent a number of years tracing my family history back to great great great grandparents.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Now that was interesting
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, Aph?
    Mickorod Renard: back
    Aphrodite Macbain: Found out my great great grandfather ran a "chemist" shop in Lucknow, India!
    Eliza Madrigal: wow
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Bleu Oleander: how interesting Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: and another grandparent sold gloves in northern England
    Aphrodite Macbain: the Brits keep r eally good records!
    Eliza Madrigal: how proper of them
    Mickorod Renard: my gggrandfather was sent to devils island..never made it back:(
    Aphrodite Macbain: wow
    Aphrodite Macbain: why?
    Eliza Madrigal: goodness
    Mickorod Renard: insurrection
    Bleu Oleander: bfb
    Aphrodite Macbain: he was a prisoner there?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: although treated well from all accounts,,his cousin who was with him escaped
    Aphrodite Macbain: I always wished one of my relatives was a pirate or some romantic but illegal figure
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: oops meant to say brb, and now I'm back :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe a highway man or a Robin Hood
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: wb Bleu
    Mickorod Renard: I dread to think the horrors that my gg grandancestors faced
    Eliza Madrigal: I've always been resistant to caring very much, but then my sister sort of nudged me, because she wanted to compare
    Aphrodite Macbain: where did they live?
    Aphrodite Macbain: MIck
    Mickorod Renard: ah
    Mickorod Renard: Clamecy in France
    Qt Core: i need to go, bye all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Cool
    Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Qt
    Mickorod Renard: nice t c ya
    Bleu Oleander: bye Qt
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you Qt
    Eliza Madrigal: hope things are very well
    Aphrodite Macbain: I should go too- I have a doctors appointment in 25 minutes!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: bye Aph
    Mickorod Renard: ah, fair well Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: cute clothes, Aph, have a good appt
    Aphrodite Macbain: byee
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks
    Mickorod Renard: i still find it hard to believe we ..as advanced as we are from other creaturesmmwere derived from apes
    Bleu Oleander: we didn't ... our line split from a common ancestor about 6 million years ago
    Mickorod Renard: how does that work then?
    Eliza Madrigal: go back still farther and even harder to fathom how far 'we' have come
    Mickorod Renard: its the mutations that sorted us out?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: natural selection
    Mickorod Renard: mm..ok
    Mickorod Renard: yes Eliza,,supposedly from sea and then primeval slime
    Mickorod Renard: and star dust
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: easy to see why A and E story lasted well
    Eliza Madrigal: Mm, so about next week.... I guess we'll be meeting mainly Mondays now?
    Mickorod Renard: I think thats best,,unless new initiatives and enthusiasm came be musted
    Eliza Madrigal: and can see if another book would be best course? I'm finally reading War and Peace, so not sure how deep a book I can add
    Mickorod Renard: I am supprised,,in a nice way,,that Zens is so busy
    Bleu Oleander: so we'll meet monday and maybe pick a new book?
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen is one of the people in SL who has taught himself so much in the time I've known him... music, languages
    Mickorod Renard: I have a new born to have to consider soon
    Eliza Madrigal: super impressive
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes you do Mick! So maybe we can find something really simple
    Eliza Madrigal: but also able to be bantered about?
    Eliza Madrigal: (not sure where to find such a book)
    Mickorod Renard: we all seem to be reading stuff anyway
    Mickorod Renard: I have two other books on the go at mo
    Bleu Oleander: always reading lots of interesting books!
    Eliza Madrigal: or go back to 'whatever happens happens'
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to explore a subject
    Mickorod Renard: thro books maybe
    Bleu Oleander: what subjects interest you Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: do we have a common interest and then sourse a book?
    Mickorod Renard: well, all sorts interest me
    Mickorod Renard: but i like an objective too
    Mickorod Renard: tricky
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe ponder a bit and then pick up the conversation Monday?
    Mickorod Renard: good idea
    Mickorod Renard: am happy with spiritaul science or whatever
    Bleu Oleander: what is spiritual science?
    Mickorod Renard: its a shame remote viewing is a fancyful
    Mickorod Renard: he he , I meant the two..
    Bleu Oleander: ha ok that makes more sense
    Mickorod Renard: spiritual or science or anything
    Mickorod Renard: is anyone studying?
    Mickorod Renard: we could hitch a ride
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm taking a writing for the web course, but that doesn't help us :)
    Mickorod Renard: mmm
    Bleu Oleander: taking a course on James Joyce
    Eliza Madrigal: that, sounds wonderful
    Bleu Oleander: re-reading Ulysses
    Mickorod Renard: yes, pondering that
    Mickorod Renard: never read it
    Mickorod Renard: is it big?
    Bleu Oleander: and the new Odyssey translation first by a woman
    Bleu Oleander: yes big
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm daunted by it, but that's mostly because of Campbell's stories of trying to read it unsuccessfully a few times
    Eliza Madrigal: so I need to reexamine and "try and see"
    Eliza Madrigal: but not now :)
    Mickorod Renard: I have a couple of campbels books that I have not read
    Eliza Madrigal: I noticed the stories at the back of A and E book were sourced from him
    Eliza Madrigal: some of*
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I need to go, but see you Monday! (or sooner if party planning)
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for hosting all this time Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: bye for now <3
    Bleu Oleander: bye all
    Bleu Oleander: take care
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Bleu

    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all

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    Oops, Anil SETH, not Dash

    https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/113-consciousness-and-the-self
    Posted 00:28, 12 Jan 2018
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