2019.02.12 11:30 - Dream Session: Out of Order, In the Gone Forest, The President dreamed of

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    Attending were Alma, Zen, Eliza, Agatha, and Riddle.

    dream retreat center_005.jpg
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :) Hope everyone can see you today
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza :) wow it's dark
    Eliza Madrigal: change light settings?
    Eliza Madrigal: I always change mine
    Zen (zen.arado): yes just done that
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I have an exercise on the questions from last week
    Eliza Madrigal: great news
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): and an attempt at doing it :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) perfect
    Zen (zen.arado): but it is too rational I think
    Zen (zen.arado): guess I am a rational person
    Eliza Madrigal: it is okay to be how you are/think how you do :) it isn't 'wrong'
    Zen (zen.arado): yeah but for dreams I am too rational and analytic
    Eliza Madrigal: probably you question yourself because of that rationality too?
    Zen (zen.arado): ha ha yes
    Eliza Madrigal: second guess, I mean
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha, great shoes :)
    Zen (zen.arado): rationalising rationalising
    Agatha Macbeth: Here I am
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Aggers
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I had one vivid image in a dream, but no elaboration
    Eliza Madrigal: I do it too Zen, but I recognize it much easier in others :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I still lose the beginnings
    Agatha Macbeth wonders where evrybody is
    Eliza Madrigal: it can be like watching for the source of thoughts in meditation perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: we're right on time now, Aggers :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Alma
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alma :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Here's Alma
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): hi Agatha, Eliza, Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: I think we should wait for you to share Zen, to see if others arrive...
    Zen (zen.arado): kk
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll just share my vivid image since it takes just a moment?
    Riddle Sideways: is online.
    Agatha Macbeth: Rid just came on
    Zen (zen.arado): sure
    Agatha Macbeth: Is Tura travelling?
    Eliza Madrigal: So I dreamed that I was paid for work, in plugs rather than money. They were like the small i-pod chargers you plug into the wall
    Eliza Madrigal: they were in different colors, and there were lots of them
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: How odd
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Rid
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Riddle
    Agatha Macbeth: Skate in
    Riddle Sideways: sorry for skates
    Riddle Sideways: hi All
    Zen (zen.arado): hard to pay for shopping with plugs
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't be :p
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is how I feel lately.... I've been rewarded in life with lots of wonderful learning opportunities and brilliance of friends :::looks around::::, but I need to figure out how to use translate that  - exactly Zen :) 
    Zen (zen.arado): though useful
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): hmmm ... something that lets you recharge?
    Eliza Madrigal nods, something relating to empowerment
    Zen (zen.arado): yes and options for recharges
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): an energy source?
    Eliza Madrigal nods... it is just fascinating how one's mind can crystallize things
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway (done) :))
    Zen (zen.arado): and note there are many options
    Zen (zen.arado): been thinking I am in a rut lately
    Eliza Madrigal: true, that's optimistic
    Eliza Madrigal: a rut? in attitude?
    Zen (zen.arado): and colours suggest exciting options
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess we'll see ^.^
    Zen (zen.arado): just time to move on from some things
    Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck
    Eliza Madrigal: Want to post your exercise Zen? I'd like to hear more about your changes, but only when you want to talk I guess :)
    Zen (zen.arado): ok
    Agatha Macbeth: Ch-ch-ch-changes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, was just hummming that
    Zen (zen.arado): Asking the Core Questions  2
    Choose a dream that has an identifiable figure (whether person or creature) in it. Tell or write the dream as it actually occurred, noting as much detail as possible. Take the time you need to center into your archetypal ego and use skills that you have learned so far to animate the image. As it comes to life in the room, get curious. Let go of the tendency to make meaning. Instead ask the questions “Who is visiting now?” and “What is happening here?” and allow the dream image to answer in whatever way it wishes. This might take a long time, which you will want to fill with lots of ideas about the figure. Let go of all these thoughts.
    Zen (zen.arado): Simply be patient and allow the figure to answer these questions in its own time. The task is not to make sense out of what you are witnessing. Do not play detective, interrogate, or cross-examine. Rather, gather information by allowing the figure itself to unfold in front of you. Your work is to observe like a naturalist would, noticing the activity and particularity of the figure itself. What is he doing now? What is she up to? How is he moving about in the room? How is she interacting with the other dream figures with you?
    Zen (zen.arado): Pay particular attention to any odd or unique behavior. This figure may not have a physical shape, but instead may present itself through a voice, or even a feeling, form, or color.
    Zen (zen.arado): The important thing is to notice what or who comes forward to greet you. Even if this image is frightening, stick with it as well as you can. Often difficult dream figures prove to be the most important to get to know. You are not being asked to figure anything out. You are not using your rational mind at all. Rather you are open to your sense of discovery. You are curious about who is visiting now. Return again and again to the orienting questions “Who is visiting now?” and “What is happening here?”. As you conclude your interaction, write down what you have experienced.
    Aizenstat, Stephen. Dream Tending: Awakening to the Healing Power of Dreams (pp. 35-36). Spring Journal, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
    Zen (zen.arado): done
    Eliza Madrigal: Ty
    Zen (zen.arado): I underlined the bit 'Pay perticular attention....' but it didn't come out
    Zen (zen.arado): cos it clarifies the 'image' question
    Zen (zen.arado): of what an image is here
    Zen (zen.arado): can be anything really not only a person
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Zen (zen.arado): so can I post my too rational attempt?
    Eliza Madrigal: please do
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds good
    Zen (zen.arado): 6th February 2019 Trump
    I was at a big rally for Trump. Or maybe the dream came about because it was the night before his State of the Union address. I was standing on the passenger side of an SUV with President Trump inside. It was a British model with the steering on the right and one of my power station managers was in the driving seat. Trump got out of the SUV and spoke to me kindly and let me sit in his seat, because he could see I was getting tired standing up. I didn't feel any antagonism towards him though I don't particularly like what I know of him and his politics. I just felt grateful. I had trouble squeezing into the seat. but I sat for a while and then I got out and let Trump back in again.
    Zen (zen.arado): dream done
    Agatha Macbeth: Good heavens
    Zen (zen.arado): “Who is visiting now?” 
    Certainly no problem of identification here! He is probably the most famous person in the world right now. He was exactly as I see him on TV news with his dark suit, white shirt and red tie. But who is he really? We only ever see his ruthless businessman and politician image. He is probably quite kind and generous to his family. With the way he was brought up and his genetic inheritance from his father there was probably no way he could escape being a ruthless businessman, was there. His father was very hard and critical with him during his childhood, i believe, And perhaps a lot of what he does is proving himself to his father. He is acting out a role that has been forced upon him by fate. But who is the real person underneath all that razzamatazz? Maybe he is quite frightened by the whole thing.
    Zen (zen.arado): “What is happening here?” 
    He seemed quite compassionate to me in the dream. It's as if the dream was trying to show me that he has a kinder, compassionate side. it's almost as if he was patting me on the shoulder in an avuncular way and putting my interests above his, though he would have been waiting to go somewhere. Or maybe it is just showing that we shouldn't believe completely in the image  of people created by the media. That any person has wider and deeper dimensions than that. If he ever was kind to someone would we ever hear about it?
    Zen (zen.arado): Done
    Zen (zen.arado): my friend Donald ha ha
    Agatha Macbeth: Quack
    Eliza Madrigal: :) at least the dream made you smile
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it says more about you than him... searching for his dimensions
    Zen (zen.arado): well maybe that's what is supposed to happen?
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you imagine letting him continue a conversation with you, or continue the dream story?
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, good point :)
    Zen (zen.arado): he seemed quiet
    Zen (zen.arado): just patiently waiting
    Agatha Macbeth: Doesn't sound like Trump :p
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I like Dream Trump better
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Riddle Sideways: giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe we can do a switcheroo
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I have had at least 3 dreams with him in them and he always seems like a nice guy
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's interesting ... I had a somewhat similar dream about Trump a while ago
    Riddle Sideways: am so happy for you, Zen
    Zen (zen.arado): yes Alma?
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's very short: "I'm watching a TV show about an event that Donald Trump is hosting. I hear him talking to someone. He says, "I'd like to invite you to come and sit with us." In this setting he seems like a very friendly and welcoming host."
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): (that's all)
    Eliza Madrigal: He must have some charm, in order to win people over and get them to believe he wants what they want for the world... can't all be threats
    Zen (zen.arado): oh I remember an interview he had years ago and he was so friendly and charming
    Zen (zen.arado): yes Eliza
    Zen (zen.arado): but remember him imitating a disabled reporter
    Eliza Madrigal: Scary if he does not have those hidden dimensions, one wants to believe that he does, and it is hard to wrap one's mind around the reality that some may not
    Zen (zen.arado): a bit like Mafia gangsters who love their Mama
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Riddle Sideways: doing a dream check on self, it this a dream or a dream session.  The Trump dream session
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): he'll walk in soon
    Zen (zen.arado): build a wall in pab
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah, okay stop it
    Agatha Macbeth: Freaky
    Riddle Sideways: yes, back to positive friendly nice Trump
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): He's very nice to anyone who praises him
    Zen (zen.arado): but dreams fade
    Eliza Madrigal: true
    Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking that these exercises suggested in the book feel like psychic tips to locate one's guides, or be able to share intuitions
    Agatha Macbeth: Getting shamanic now
    Eliza Madrigal: trying to associate and receive impressions
    Zen (zen.arado): hmm yes
    Eliza Madrigal: a lot of the same tools, art kit almost
    Zen (zen.arado): opening me to experiencing rather than thinking
    Eliza Madrigal nods, me too
    Riddle Sideways: opening to a guide to talk to
    Zen (zen.arado): like the ACT book I am reading
    Zen (zen.arado): (acceptance and commitment therapy)
    Riddle Sideways: Trump, Your animal guide
    Agatha Macbeth: Some animal
    Eliza Madrigal: oh dear
    Zen (zen.arado): which seems mostly Mindfulness
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I haven't heard of that before (ACT)
    Zen (zen.arado): I just did couple weeks ago
    Eliza Madrigal: Does anyone else have a dream to share?
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I had a brief lucid dream this week
    Eliza Madrigal: that's hopeful
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): the lucid moment came at the end of a longer dream:
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I'm in a city, walking from one place to another. I end up in a parking lot in the interior of a block surrounded by tall buildings. I want to get out of there and back to the street. I don't think I can go through the buildings, because they are private apartment buildings. The parking lot is very clean and well maintained, with no litter. There are no cars, so the space is very open. I find a place where I can get out onto the street. I'm disoriented, not sure what direction is north or south. I try to see where the sun is, so that I can get my bearings. I'm in a narrow space kind of like a corridor. I'm carrying some bags containing various things, including some flowers.
    I see a mountain off in the distance ahead, and then a whole range of mountains becomes visible. It resembles a landscape in the southwestern USA. It's a striking sight, and I think it is the kind of thing I might see in a dream. I gradually become aware that I actually am dreaming. I stay in the dream and keep walking for several seconds, looking around. Then my feet begin to feel heavy and hard to move. I become aware of my body lying in bed, trying to move my feet under the covers.
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): [end]
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, nice! you gained traction
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): haha
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): at least I didn't wake up immediately, but I didn't really get to do anything in the dream either
    Zen (zen.arado): great you still get lucid Alma
    Eliza Madrigal: so often lucid dreams seem to come from a moment of awe, even if small, wanting to take something in more
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe put oneself 'into' it more?
    Zen (zen.arado): feels like an urge to breakout from too many constrictions to me
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): the city was one where I used to live, so there was an element of time travel to it
    Zen (zen.arado): I suppose that's the obvious meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: so familiarity at first
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): but it was interesting that the urban setting was clean and tidy, not dark and threatening as they sometimes are in my dreams
    Zen (zen.arado): 'I gotta get out of this place'
    Eliza Madrigal: does your mind feel clean and tidy these days? :))
    Agatha Macbeth: Dystopian Alma
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): LOL, not entirely!
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): but crowded and hemmed in, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: so the mountains must have felt refreshing
    Zen (zen.arado): trapped in a nice comfortable place
    Zen (zen.arado): or situation
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): and the mountains seemed to point even farther back in time to when I lived in the southwest
    Riddle Sideways: like how the walking got harder as knowing it was a dream meant the blankets held your legs
    Zen (zen.arado): yes
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): when I dream about mountains, it often has a sense of longing, wanting to escape from the city
    Zen (zen.arado): wanting to break free but not able to
    Agatha Macbeth: That's understandable
    Eliza Madrigal: remembering life is more vast than whatever is going on day to day
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I associate mountains with freedom and beauty
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Riddle Sideways: wondering if Trump would think that
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Zen (zen.arado): who cares :)
    Riddle Sideways: whoops
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): Trump would view a mountain as a place to put a big sign with his name on it
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): *sigh*
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: 'great leader'
    Zen (zen.arado): aw he's not so bad :)
    Eliza Madrigal: everyone with a photo on their wall
    Zen (zen.arado): in dreams anyway
    Riddle Sideways: yes, the kinder gentler dream Trump is so nice, the most nice, probably the nicest ever, ever
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): LOL
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: sorry
    Zen (zen.arado): my bestest friend :)
    Eliza Madrigal lights incense.... out damn trump
    Agatha Macbeth: Better to sleep than to vote
    Riddle Sideways: sage
    Agatha Macbeth: And onion
    Zen (zen.arado): but all events led to his election
    Zen (zen.arado): myriads of confluences
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): helped along by the Russians
    Zen (zen.arado): 'cometh the hour cometh the man'
    Eliza Madrigal: Oligarchy cometh by way of Citizens United and data mining
    Agatha Macbeth: He and Putin make a good team
    Zen (zen.arado): maybe he will use up a lot of bad karma or something
    Riddle Sideways: btw - for another not good time, you can now read the Monday log wirh Xirana
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): she was at pavilion?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Riddle Sideways: eventually
    Riddle Sideways: or if ya want to hear very strange ordered dream
    Eliza Madrigal: yes please :)
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala) listens
    Eliza Madrigal: :::::come baaaaack Zen:::::
    Riddle Sideways: recalled completely out of time order! in scenes like slides in projector out of order.
    huge wide plank, bare hillside, redwood being ripped, downed tree going into a stargate type tp circle,
        hillside had lots of trees, old wide plank(table?) needs replacement, other got last tree to tp circle.
    later semi-awake recalling and forcing it into sensical order and adding logic to why-how happening
    +not find archival type here. 
    +R view from distance (maybe am other).  except owned the old table.
    +dream was an ok sequence, why must logical brain re-arrange it?  can't take illogical order, so rearranges then analyzes and makes judgments on an out-of-order movie
    Riddle Sideways: whoops by Zen
    Riddle Sideways: done
    Agatha Macbeth: Did the careworkers get him
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh WB
    Riddle Sideways: ah, back and did not want to hear
    Zen (zen.arado): sorry careworkers early
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, bye Zen
    Riddle Sideways: by Zen
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): tc Zen
    Zen (zen.arado): bye
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm trying to read the dream in what should be order....
    Riddle Sideways: the way a mind wants to, but maybe should not
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I also sometimes puzzle over what order a set of dream scenes occurred in
    Eliza Madrigal: are you woodworking in RL ?
    Riddle Sideways: no
    Eliza Madrigal: that's true, a lot of the time the images are just there and I am not sure when
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is always like that in dreams, but sometimes we string them together more cohesively than others upon waking
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zenny
    Riddle Sideways: why Must we do that?
    Eliza Madrigal: to communicate with rational mind? Ours and others?
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): our waking minds impose linear time on our experience
    Eliza Madrigal: like our eye flips things upside down
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Or is the brain?
    Riddle Sideways: one side of brain
    Agatha Macbeth: Ooh super complex
    Agatha Macbeth: Surprising we don't walk into walls
    Riddle Sideways: often do in SL
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): did the things I recall from yesterday really occur in the order I remember them in? who can say?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Eliza Madrigal: the authors keep telling us not to impose meaning, because we automatically do.... hard not to, just to see things as they present
    Eliza Madrigal: I can't really go over yesterday in order even
    Eliza Madrigal: right
    Eliza Madrigal: even seeing a film, it isn't often written in a linear progression
    Eliza Madrigal: impressions are given
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): if I try to recall yesterday's events, the first thing I do is conjure up a time line, then try to stick memories onto it
    Eliza Madrigal: stick a pin in "morning" 
    Riddle Sideways: yep, funny to do that
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): so its actually not that different from trying to recall a dream
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, nodding
    Riddle Sideways: ha, careful going there
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): except the dream world does not have such a clearly defined time line
    Agatha Macbeth: If any
    Eliza Madrigal: whenever I tell a story, I begin to give so many qualifiers, tracing back and back...
    Eliza Madrigal: that I realize there is just no way to begin it and be honest at the same time
    Eliza Madrigal: or not honest but complete
    Eliza Madrigal: when did you fall in love with someone, or have your first realization, etc
    Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
    Eliza Madrigal: and last week we mentioned things working themselves out in dreams over periods of time then breaking through to the survace
    Eliza Madrigal: once they break through you're sometimes aware of the underground work, then do you include that? or just the breakthrough? lol
    Eliza Madrigal: sorry.... love this line of thought obviously :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Obviousleh
    Riddle Sideways: is ok.  the dream story is how should be told
    Riddle Sideways: then a time line messes it up
    Eliza Madrigal: so what was most vivid in the dream you shared?
    Agatha Macbeth examines Liz's pink socks
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you can stick then pin in at any point, is what I'm thinking, then design everything else around that
    Eliza Madrigal: arrange/design
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Riddle Sideways: or take that the old plank needed replace, so get one from the gone forest
    Eliza Madrigal: "the gone forest" would be an incredible book title
    Agatha Macbeth: Gone but not forgotten
    Eliza Madrigal: forest of ghost trees
    Riddle Sideways: many kids books
    Agatha Macbeth: We've got to get to the woods before the trees
    Riddle Sideways: Once there was a mountain, then there was no mountain, then there was
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm
    Riddle Sideways: Donovan
    Eliza Madrigal: that seems a perfect note to close on
    Eliza Madrigal bows
    Agatha Macbeth: Hurdy gurdy man
    Riddle Sideways: bows
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you all, appreciate your appearances ^.^
    Agatha Macbeth: Arrows
    Riddle Sideways: pushes Trump back into the dream trunk
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Agatha Macbeth: Supertrump
    Riddle Sideways: ooo love their songs
    Eliza Madrigal: tonight the part of the ridiculous villain will be played by a stand in
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): thank you all. I will try the exercise Zen gave us on a dream I had last night
    Agatha Macbeth: On Fox
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): not about Trump :P
    Riddle Sideways: the president dreamed of
    Riddle Sideways: thank you all
    Eliza Madrigal: yay, I'll try too
    Agatha Macbeth: Got da log?
    Eliza Madrigal: happy dreams to you, until we meet again....
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :) thanks
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): see you next time
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): have a dreamy week
    Agatha Macbeth: Woot
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll dream of Genie
    Eliza: she's a light brown hare...
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