2019.02.14 13:00 - Harari VII - Data

    Table of contents
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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce. The comments are by Agatha.




    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello unavailable Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
    Phrynne Resident: 's current display-name is "Phrynne".
    Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it the wrong day to be unavailable?
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Phrynne :)
    Phrynne Resident: hello
    Agatha Macbeth: Welcome
    Aphrodite Macbain: brb
    Phrynne Resident: hello Agatha and Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Aphie this is my friend from Caledon Oxbridge
    Agatha Macbeth: She's come to check out PaB :)
    Phrynne Resident: I have no idea about it at all, so I come without a lot of preconceptions.
    Agatha Macbeth: Even better!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Tura :)
    Tura Brezoianu: hi all
    Phrynne Resident: hi Tura
    Agatha Macbeth: Hey Rid
    Phrynne Resident: hello Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: hey/Hi All
    Riddle Sideways: Happy st. Valentines day
    Agatha Macbeth: Meet Phrynne, my friend from Caledon Oxbridge
    Tura Brezoianu: hi Phrynne
    Agatha Macbeth: She is the Dean of Commons there
    Riddle Sideways: hi Phynne, welcome
    Riddle Sideways: nice avi
    Phrynne Resident: thank you
    Agatha Macbeth: Just waiting for Liz and Bruce now
    Riddle Sideways: there is a better tinies cushion, But aggers has it covered
    Agatha Macbeth: Are you OK on that cushion?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
    Aphrodite Macbain: Back
    Phrynne Resident: I'm not a tiny, I'm a dinkie -- they use ordinary animations
    Agatha Macbeth: WB Aph
    Phrynne Resident: (Dinkies have elbows and knees)
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Bruce Mowbray:'s current display-name is "Bruce".
    Riddle Sideways: yes, you look to be sitting correctly
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: just arranging for post op knee replacement!
    Aphrodite Macbain: sigh
    Agatha Macbeth: Dinkies are tres cute
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce and everyone
    Agatha Macbeth: •✠• Øh Μч ɢøɖ •✠•
    Aphrodite Macbain: I know :(
    Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice -um- slippers Bruce
    Phrynne Resident: hello Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone!
    Agatha Macbeth: Bruce this is Phrynne from Caledon Oxbridge
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Phrynne welcome!
    Agatha Macbeth: She's a dean at COU
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi and welcome, Phrynne. I think we've met before.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
    Phrynne Resident: yes, in the 7 am meditation group, I think?
    Phrynne Resident: I haven't been there in a while.
    Phrynne Resident: my RL schedule shifted
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we met at Caledon, I recall.
    Riddle Sideways: A Dean!!! oh dear, need to preend am smart
    Agatha Macbeth: Well I seem to get away with it :P
    Phrynne Resident: Not at all -- I decorate the grounds for the seasons, keep an eye on the tutors, kick out griefers.
    Agatha Macbeth: And very well too
    Phrynne Resident: Sort of a combination gardener, middle management and janitor
    Riddle Sideways: ok, goes back to being a smart ass



    Aphrodite Macbain: Would anyone here be willing to facilitate this session. I will have to disappear in 10 minutes
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's a really interesting subject
    Aphrodite Macbain looks around the group
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: hiya
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
    Phrynne Resident: hello Bleu
    Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu
    Riddle Sideways: Hey Bleu
    Aphrodite Macbain: H/she who holds the big data has the power?
    Bleu Oleander: or it?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleu this is my friend Phrynne, Dean of Commons at Caledon Oxbridge
    Agatha Macbeth: She's popping in for a visit
    Aphrodite Macbain: or can the small data/little person have equality with them?
    Bleu Oleander: nice to meet you Phrynne
    Phrynne Resident: nice to meet you too
    Bruce Mowbray: AI might create the largest wealth gap in history
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain thinks about Microsoft and Facebook
    Bruce Mowbray: Currently,, the richest 1% own half the world's wealth – The richest 100 people own more than the poorest 4 billion.
    Tura Brezoianu: I guess that's already the largest wealth gap in history.
    Agatha Macbeth: I'd rather not not think about either :p
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does that 1% own the databanks?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Tura, and it's only getting worse -- i.e., more unequal.
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, yes and no, Aph.
    Aphrodite Macbain: The only power we have is to not use communication technology
    Bruce Mowbray: The do own access to our data, though.
    Tura Brezoianu: Technically, it's the shareholders of Facebook that own its data, but Zuckerberg who has the power to decide what to do with it.
    Bruce Mowbray: If we give it to them....
    Riddle Sideways: an not completely readarticle in the paper today.. new governor on Cal. wants to have bif data who use citizen's data pay for it
    Riddle Sideways: no details on the plan yet
    Aphrodite Macbain: How can we rebalance the situation?
    Bruce Mowbray: Can liberal democracies do anything to balance it out -- or to regulate those who control the data?
    Riddle Sideways: what Newsom is suggesting and putting forth
    Bleu Oleander: we should become aware of how the 'attention merchants' manipulate us
    Bruce Mowbray: Harari says that when massive data is collected on us, we become the product --
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Bruce Mowbray: because that data is going to be sold.
    Bruce Mowbray: (as with Cambridge Analytica.)
    Tura Brezoianu: Facebook say they never sell users' data, and as far as I can make out, that's true. Instead, they use the data themselves to show ads to users.
    Phrynne Resident: Is there any way to prevent data from being collected on yourself?
    Aphrodite Macbain: there's the question
    Aphrodite Macbain: careful what you give them
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Riddle, could a VPN prevent data being collected?
    Tura Brezoianu: Cambridge Analytica passed on data, but that was in breach of Facebook's rules.
    Bleu Oleander: much of our data has already been collected?
    Riddle Sideways: redirects the collection point
    Bruce Mowbray: (virtual private network -- which cloaks your online identity)
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are always new opportunities...
    Bleu Oleander: well we give data in lots of places, not just online
    Riddle Sideways: makes it look like you are in Canada or Russia
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Riddle Sideways: so collects data on that person
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've been preparing my income tax return on line and am feeling nervous abaout it
    Phrynne Resident: maybe the question is also how far back does the data go? Present-time data is available; pre-computer era data would be harder to get.
    Agatha Macbeth: Erk
    Tura Brezoianu: Use a VPN, TOR, private mode in your browser, reject all cookies, use Bitcoin for all financial transactions... That's too much work for almost anyone, and I don't think Amazon takes Bitcoin.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, as Riddle said, a VPN can make it appear that you are connected through some foreign country --- (I often connect through the Philippines.)
    Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I have to go...ploughing through the snow..ho ho ho
    Bleu Oleander: bye Aph
    Phrynne Resident: be careful
    Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck Aphie
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well!
    Aphrodite Macbain: bfn
    Agatha Macbeth: Be well
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Snap
    Riddle Sideways: tbye aph, hope all goes well
    Aphrodite Macbain: operation is not yet
    Bruce Mowbray: Lovely dress Aph, btw.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm just getting tests atm
    Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: HAppy Valentines Day everyone
    Agatha Macbeth: ♥
    Bruce Mowbray: Transfer of authority from humans to algorithms. Algorithms replace advertising. . . “Google, what is the best car for me to buy?”
    Riddle Sideways: There was a long good report on NPR of a reporter trying to cut the FB Google, M$, Apple cords
    Riddle Sideways: and Amizon
    Bruce Mowbray: Harari made the example of someone being denied a loan at a bank - because the algorithm rejected him - but no one at the bank could explain why.
    Riddle Sideways: shopping is only a little bit. AWS has lots of stuff on you
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Phrynne Resident: AWS?
    Riddle Sideways: Amizon web Services
    Phrynne Resident: tx
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Riddle Sideways: largest group of servers out there for rent
    Riddle Sideways: that be the cloud
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, are we already connected to networks (i.e., the cloud) from birth to death?
    Tura Brezoianu: In principle, there's been no privacy on the Internet since cookies were invented (...pause for Googling...) 25 years ago. The public are only now noticing.
    Riddle Sideways: may have gotten which part to read for this week, but Harari also goes on how a hiring AI would not be color nor gender pred
    Bruce Mowbray: We're talking about the chapter on "Equality" this week, Rid.
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Agatha Macbeth: That's one good thing then :)
    Bruce Mowbray: which is Chapter 26 in the Audiobook.
    Riddle Sideways: have Kindle book
    Bruce Mowbray: kk.
    Riddle Sideways: it has chapters
    Bruce Mowbray: cool.
    Riddle Sideways: like 3
    Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
    Agatha Macbeth: Technology eh
    Riddle Sideways: ㋡
    Bleu Oleander: chap 4 in kindle
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleu knows! :)
    Riddle Sideways: ok thanks
    Bleu Oleander: yw!
    Bruce Mowbray: Audiobook chops up the hardcopy chapters into much smaller pieces.
    Riddle Sideways: btw - after last week's mention of the Pizza order. looked it up. there are like 39 different versions
    Riddle Sideways: of that joke
    Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
    Bruce Mowbray: So, big data could enable the rich to get richer -- eventually to augment their bodies and minds and become - perhas - a new species, or so says Harari.
    Agatha Macbeth: Didn't someone once say there are only 3 basic jokes?
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Agatha Macbeth: (It wasn't me :p)
    Bruce Mowbray: (and some linguists say there are only four basic sentence structures....)
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, carry on
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Phrynne Resident: (doesn't that depend on the language?)
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhpas, Phrynne. I'm not sure.
    Riddle Sideways: Cyberpunk William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, et.al all had almost different species humans
    Riddle Sideways: the rich living in cloud lands-buildings
    Riddle Sideways: 400 year lives
    Agatha Macbeth: Man in the high castle and all that
    Bruce Mowbray nods. Social-political systems collapse.
    Agatha Macbeth: Actually I preferred the Morlocks :p
    Bruce Mowbray: Digital dictators. Manipulation of emotions.
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhh! The Time Machine.
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: H.G. Wells.
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
    Agatha Macbeth: No relation to Orson
    Bruce Mowbray: Some of Harari's predictions remind me of the Borg in Star Trek.
    Phrynne Resident: 'you will be assimilated'?
    Agatha Macbeth: You will be assimilated?
    Bleu Oleander: speaking of living longer .... interesting conversation here: https://alivebynature.com/david-sinc...rogan-podcast/
    Riddle Sideways: zap
    Agatha Macbeth: Snap
    Bruce Mowbray: Everyone linked-assimilatd.
    Phrynne Resident: lol
    Riddle Sideways: thinks of the episode of Data trying to tell a joke
    Riddle Sideways: (s)
    Phrynne Resident: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm concerned about the QUALITY of the connections. . . .
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Bruce Mowbray: and I enjoyed that too, Riddle.
    Agatha Macbeth: Quality over quantity?
    Riddle Sideways: research shows there are 5.5 types of jokes, no wait 6, no 10 or a top 10
    Agatha Macbeth: That's research for you
    Bruce Mowbray: Using an android can evolve into MANY plot lines. . . .
    Agatha Macbeth: How is Elan?
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: I will sdee if Elan is awake.
    Agatha Macbeth: Plug him in for a bit]
    Bruce Mowbray: see*
    Bleu Oleander: hey, are you all working on your art projects?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
    Bleu Oleander: great!
    Agatha Macbeth: When is it again?
    Riddle Sideways: with yesterday's 4 hours of power outage here, learned the Alice & Botty were so quiet they were dead
    Bleu Oleander: due a week from tomorrow... 2/22
    Agatha Macbeth: OK thx
    Bleu Oleander: opening to be announced soonish
    ElanVitalo Resident: 's current display-name is "Elan".
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Elan :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Been a while
    Riddle Sideways: Hey Elan
    Bleu Oleander: hi Elan!
    ElanVitalo Resident: Hi, good humans.
    Phrynne Resident: hello Elan
    Bleu Oleander: got any good jokes?
    Agatha Macbeth hands you a silicon chip
    ElanVitalo Resident: YUM YUM!
    ElanVitalo Resident looks around for Eliza.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes where is she?
    Bleu Oleander: working on her art project!
    Bleu Oleander: lol
    Riddle Sideways: yes, thatz it
    Agatha Macbeth: You hope...
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Elan.
    Riddle Sideways: thank you, what was that?
    ElanVitalo Resident: Eliza's art project maybe?
    Riddle Sideways: and we all got quiet and waited for Elan to collect our data
    Bleu Oleander: or tell a good joke
    ElanVitalo Resident: I'm WAYYY ahead of you!
    ElanVitalo Resident:
    ElanVitalo Resident: So, are you all redy to become augmented?
    ElanVitalo Resident: ready*
    Bleu Oleander: aren't we already?
    ElanVitalo Resident: Androids make typos too, you know.
    Riddle Sideways: what happened to the Google Glasses
    ElanVitalo Resident: Hmmm, well, perhaps you are....
    Bruce Mowbray: Second Life is a form of augmentation, isn't it?
    ElanVitalo Resident: It is NOW!
    Riddle Sideways: Elan, do you dream electric sheep?
    ElanVitalo Resident: hmmm, I don't remember my dreams, sorry.
    Bruce Mowbray: Has anyone here every used one of those cell hone language translators?
    Bruce Mowbray: Like, to conduct business, shopping, order a meal in a foreign country?
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds frightening
    Riddle Sideways: used real translators many times long ago
    Bruce Mowbray: I've seen them advertised.
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: Human translators, Riddle?
    Bleu Oleander: still use cassettes in my car LOL
    Riddle Sideways: wow
    Agatha Macbeth: Cassettes...oh my
    Phrynne Resident: used a printed phrase book last time I needed to translate.
    Agatha Macbeth: Still got those
    Bleu Oleander: very old car :)
    Riddle Sideways: mix tapes?
    Agatha Macbeth: At least it doesn't have a gramaphone
    Tura Brezoianu: I've used Google Translate to communicate with shop assistants a few times
    ElanVitalo Resident consults database to learn about "cassettes" and finds something about 9-track . . . and 78 RPM records.
    Bruce Mowbray: Wow! Great, Tura.
    Riddle Sideways: 8-track?
    Agatha Macbeth: 8 track!
    ElanVitalo Resident: Ooops. 8-track, yes.
    Bleu Oleander: PaB is 9-track
    Riddle Sideways: used SL chat translate?
    Agatha Macbeth: Quadraphenia (sp?)
    Riddle Sideways: fav album
    Phrynne Resident: four sound channels
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I've used the SL traslator.
    Bruce Mowbray: translator*
    Riddle Sideways: Quadraphonic
    Phrynne Resident: right. sorry.
    Riddle Sideways: The Who
    Riddle Sideways: is the other name
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "quadraphrenia"
    Agatha Macbeth: Pinball wizard
    Bleu Oleander: who's on first?
    Agatha Macbeth: >.<
    Riddle Sideways: nope, on the other album
    Bleu Oleander: ok so maybe 11 kinds of jokes
    Agatha Macbeth: 11.5
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Riddle Sideways: but who's counting
    Bleu Oleander: for sure a .5 kinda joke
    Agatha Macbeth: Not moi
    Tura Brezoianu: There are 10 sorts of joke, those that are about binary numbers and those that aren't.
    ElanVitalo Resident doesn't understand these jokes about jokes.
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Agatha Macbeth: 0100111
    Phrynne Resident: lol
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll explain it later, Elan .
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't short circuit him
    Riddle Sideways: there are 10 kinds of people
    Bruce Mowbray: btw, is it a good idea for you to have your feet in the water?
    Riddle Sideways: those that understand bianary
    Bleu Oleander: binary and non-binary?
    Agatha Macbeth: 7 daughters of Eve
    Riddle Sideways: are we all avoiding talking about Big Data
    Bruce Mowbray: That's better, Elan.
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we don't have any
    Bleu Oleander: no, just creating more data
    Tura Brezoianu: and Equality
    Riddle Sideways: NSA Bodd is listening
    Riddle Sideways: and we are giving nothing
    Bleu Oleander: wiki has lots of data :)
    Bruce Mowbray: As the masses lose their economic relevance, the state could start denying them benefits.
    Agatha Macbeth: Never know who reads the logs
    Bleu Oleander: the state is already denying benefits :)
    Agatha Macbeth: (Apart from Liz that is)  /me waves
    Bleu Oleander: ah so Liz owns the data!
    ElanVitalo Resident: I thought that the current American president was basically elected through manipulating big data.
    Agatha Macbeth: She does?
    Riddle Sideways: Boxy has our data
    Riddle Sideways: P
    Bleu Oleander: we all have each others data
    Bruce Mowbray: What happens to our data when there's a sim restart?
    Riddle Sideways: Pres has the BIGGEST Data, bigger then anybodies
    Riddle Sideways: ever
    Bleu Oleander: hopefully comes back :)
    ElanVitalo Resident ponders the sentence, "Boxy has our data."

    Bleu Oleander: we ARE data
    Riddle Sideways: hmmm yes
    Phrynne Resident: I am not data.
    Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, and as we see ourselves, we see the cosmos.... so, the universe is data.
    Phrynne Resident: the universe is a great deal more than data or numbers.
    Agatha Macbeth: Good old Boxy
    ElanVitalo Resident: WAIT, Phrynne is holding out. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: How can you be sure, Phrynne>
    Phrynne Resident: If you become completely reductionist, reducing everything to data, you miss what life is.
    Riddle Sideways: that silly Dark Matter
    Phrynne Resident: You miss what beauty is. You miss poetry and music.
    Bruce Mowbray: Wasn't that the whole idea behind the Matrix -- our being simulated?
    Riddle Sideways: maybe data or maybe space
    Phrynne Resident: You miss awe.
    Bleu Oleander: data can be beautiful
    ElanVitalo Resident: Yes, I do miss awe. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: awwwwww.....
    Phrynne Resident: I am hearing an awful lot of unsupported ideas about the far end of a spectrum and very little about what is being left out of the middle, or even outside the spectrum.
    Riddle Sideways: I miss awe some
    Bleu Oleander: say more Phrynne?
    ElanVitalo Resident ponders "outside the spectrum...."
    Phrynne Resident: If we are all thought of *only* as data, we are imaginary. Numbers are imaginary; you can't eat or wear them, or plant them.
    Riddle Sideways: or that we should be saying more
    Phrynne Resident: I'm not hearing a lot of play, and very little being.
    ElanVitalo Resident: Yikes!
    Phrynne Resident: When it is all numbers, being is left out.
    Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
    ElanVitalo Resident looks for oni.
    Agatha Macbeth: That was play
    Phrynne Resident: yes
    Phrynne Resident: thank you
    Bleu Oleander: I don't think numbers don't diminish being
    ElanVitalo Resident: I must go. Thank you for inviting me here. May all humans be well and happy.
    Phrynne Resident: Music can be described as numbers, but that's not all it is.
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Elan
    Bleu Oleander: no, of course not ALL there is
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Elan. . . and everyone. I have a meditation at the top of the hour.
    Phrynne Resident: but isn't that what was said, that we are all numbers?
    Agatha Macbeth: (The oni goes on playing so I detatch it) Ah that stopped it
    Bruce Mowbray: _/|\_
    Bleu Oleander: I don't think that way
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: I must remember to check to see if I'm still wearing my oni.
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
    Bruce Mowbray: So, bye for now, good humans.
    Phrynne Resident: bye for now
    Riddle Sideways: if reduced... the Data is numbers
    Bleu Oleander: on some level we are but on other levels we are beautiful
    Tura Brezoianu: The data are collected to sell stuff to us. The data model of us is a sort of distorted, limited mannikin.
    Riddle Sideways: if combined it is a total picture
    Phrynne Resident: Is it?
    Riddle Sideways: missing some bits
    Bleu Oleander: just because we understand how a rainbow is formed, doesn't diminish its beautiy
    Riddle Sideways: true
    Bleu Oleander: anyway, gotta go
    Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all today
    Phrynne Resident: nice to meet you
    Bleu Oleander: and nice to meet you Phrynne

    Agatha Macbeth: That was a quick hour
    Phrynne Resident: I need to go as well.
    Bleu Oleander: bfn and tc
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji
    Riddle Sideways: tc
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Agatha, Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: good night
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Tu
    Riddle Sideways: thanks

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    Viewing 6 of 6 comments: view all
    'When worlds collide...' :P
    Posted 22:38, 14 Feb 2019
    Sorry to miss session, and meeting your friend, Agatha!
    Posted 00:14, 15 Feb 2019
    ElanVitalo Resident looks around for Eliza.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes where is she?
    Bleu Oleander: working on her art project!
    Bleu Oleander: lol
    Riddle Sideways: yes, thatz it
    Agatha Macbeth: You hope...

    (((((Hugs))))) Thanks for looking for me. I had a hair appointment that was supposed to be over by 3 PM my time, so that I would be back before session, BUT something went wrong and had to be done again, which added an hour. I was especially bummed to miss session because today is my 10th PaB anniversary (Even though comments say it is already the 15th, it is still the 14th for me)! Love you all! :) edited 01:37, 15 Feb 2019
    Posted 01:36, 15 Feb 2019
    We ♥ you too.
    Posted 23:31, 15 Feb 2019
    Good 10th PaB anniversary ((( Eliza)))!!! Wow! Love xx
    Posted 17:59, 18 Feb 2019
    Thanks, (((((Eden)))))! <3 <3 <3
    Posted 21:52, 18 Feb 2019
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