2019.02.09 13:00 - Can I help?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.


    Riddle Sideways: Hey Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Riddle.
    Bruce Mowbray: Getting much rain today?
    Riddle Sideways: saying that every time, reminds of Cousin Brucie
    Riddle Sideways: from the Radio
    Bruce Mowbray: "Cousin Brucie"?
    Riddle Sideways: stopped raining this morning
    Bruce Mowbray: Have not heard of him.

    A few hours later, I did a Google search for “Cousin Brucie” and discovered much yet unexplored territory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Morrow

    Riddle Sideways: way way back
    Bruce Mowbray: Seattle has received a LOT of snow.
    Riddle Sideways: the meadow has a huge pond
    Riddle Sideways: and 2 ducks
    Bruce Mowbray: Met with Calvino yesterday and he said they had more snow than they could handle in Seattle.
    Riddle Sideways: been trying to call friends outside Portland
    Bruce Mowbray: My brother's widow lives just across the Columbia River in Longview, Washington.
    Bruce Mowbray: (north of Portland)
    Bruce Mowbray: are they getting rain/snow there?
    Riddle Sideways: they are north of Portland also
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Bruce Mowbray: Roseburg?
    Riddle Sideways: actually the sun just came out
    Bruce Mowbray: Great!
    Riddle Sideways: Port Townsend
    Bruce Mowbray: Sunny California!
    Riddle Sideways: a little
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh, yes, Port Townsend.
    Riddle Sideways: there is a trend here
    Riddle Sideways: when the AT&T golf tourney comes
    Riddle Sideways: so does bad weather
    Riddle Sideways: all the visitors think bad
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
    Riddle Sideways: about the area
    Riddle Sideways: so don't move here
    Bruce Mowbray ponders possible links between weather, golf, and moving ....
    Bruce Mowbray: I watched a YouTube video once about 17 reasons NOT to move to Portland.
    Riddle Sideways: used to be the Bing Crosby Golf tournament
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh.
    Bruce Mowbray: In the Bay Area, then?
    Riddle Sideways: AT&T bought it and bad weather came with it
    Riddle Sideways: In Carmel
    Bruce Mowbray: I understand.
    Bruce Mowbray: Columbus has the same problem with the Memorial Golf Tournament.
    Riddle Sideways: we are Not Bay area ;)
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, south of Bay Area?
    Riddle Sideways: was at a restaurant that had the Golf channel on.
    Bruce Mowbray: Carmel by the Sea.
    Riddle Sideways: they were all out in stocking caps and umbrellas
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear.
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm still trying to convince a friend that a Polar Vortex is possible in California.
    Riddle Sideways: caddy would pull the umbrella away just as swing was starting
    Riddle Sideways: how is the debate going?
    Bruce Mowbray: Why don't they just postpone the thing -- then videotape it for broadcast later?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, my friend has had the flu all week, so the debate has sort of subsided.
    Bruce Mowbray: I just downloaded the movie “Transcendence" (Johnny Depp - 2014) so I can watch it again.
    Riddle Sideways: think they canceled the blimp
    Bruce Mowbray: It was mentioned in the book "Life 3.0" by Max Tegmark.


    --BELL--


    Bruce Mowbray: about a runaway AI . . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Quite a well-made movie, actually.
    Riddle Sideways: right, more scary AI movies :))
    Bruce Mowbray: My favorite AI movie, I think, might be "Uncanny." ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2321502/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 )
    Bruce Mowbray: with "ex Machina" a close second.
    Bruce Mowbray: Keep an eye on Botty :) She might get ideas.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, Like both of those about equal
    Bruce Mowbray: Interesting how the AI's in both movies break out. . .
    Riddle Sideways: Botty's new brain is getting ideas
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha.
    Bruce Mowbray: She has a NEW brain now?
    Riddle Sideways: the new brain is not connected yet
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhh.
    Riddle Sideways: it is playing on the systems here
    Bruce Mowbray: Great.
    Riddle Sideways: OpenCog has now connected into SingularityNet
    Riddle Sideways: a blockchain research net
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. I've not heard of either of those. . .
    Riddle Sideways: you have probably heard of Sofia tho
    Riddle Sideways: she runs on OpenCog in a Hanson robot
    Bruce Mowbray: https://singularitynet.io/
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes. I've seen Sophia in action.
    Bruce Mowbray: Sophia is a Hanson robot?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Riddle Sideways: ooooo not the Muppets Hanson
    Bruce Mowbray: https://opencog.org/
    Riddle Sideways: Hey, got a good link AI-Ethics.com
    Riddle Sideways: and an older Loving-AI
    Bruce Mowbray: https://ai-ethics.com/
    Bruce Mowbray: Elon Musk thinks that AI is summoning the Demon.
    Riddle Sideways: you still are the fastest link-finder
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I get a bit of help from Google.
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Riddle Sideways: Elon Musk likes the spotlight for outlandish
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, I highly recommend Tegmark's "Life 3.0"
    Bruce Mowbray: I think it's better then Harari's "21 Lessons," actually.
    Riddle Sideways: watched his Google talk, but have not the Life 3.0 yet
    Bruce Mowbray: Tegmark is very likable - and a superb teacher.
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm listening to his book when I commute places...
    Bruce Mowbray: (Audiobook)
    Riddle Sideways: doing much commutes now?
    Riddle Sideways: ummm Hermit's do not commute
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I live fifteen miles from the nearest town of any size.
    Bruce Mowbray: So I might go into town once every two weeks or so.
    Bruce Mowbray: and if I do, then I listen to Tegmark.
    Bruce Mowbray: otherwise, he just sits dormant in the driveway.
    Bruce Mowbray: Does that qualify as "hermit" enough for you?
    Riddle Sideways: waiting on you
    Bruce Mowbray: I have a sort of maybe ethical question... on a completely different subject.
    Riddle Sideways: ok,
    Bruce Mowbray: I need advice.
    Bruce Mowbray: kk,
    Riddle Sideways: might not be the right person

    note: I have given my neighbor a pseudonym for what follows . . .

    Bruce Mowbray: My neighbor's name is Mark.
    Riddle Sideways: but
    Riddle Sideways: k
    Bruce Mowbray: He is 35 years old,
    Bruce Mowbray: has never held a job for more than a month,
    Bruce Mowbray: and has some rather severe personality disorders...
    Bruce Mowbray: and this week he got arrested in eastern Ohio..
    Bruce Mowbray: supposedly for DUI, or so his mom tells me.
    Bruce Mowbray: She came to my driveway last night and wanted my phone number to give to Mark.
    Bruce Mowbray: She says he is in jail.
    Bruce Mowbray: Soooo.....


    --BELL--


    Bruce Mowbray: I have "helped" this man out of more troubles than I can count...
    Bruce Mowbray: I mean, I gave him my previous car,
    Bruce Mowbray: replaced a tire on it when it went flat, replaced the battery, etc.
    Bruce Mowbray: and I've loaned him lots of small cash when he needed it...
    Bruce Mowbray: I've been trying to help him to help himself.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, his father died last week,
    Bruce Mowbray: and he came to me for money so he could drive to eastern Ohio.
    Bruce Mowbray: I gave him the cash -- that was over a week ago.
    Riddle Sideways: oh dear
    Bruce Mowbray: and last night his mother came to my driveway to say that he was in jail for DUI...
    Bruce Mowbray: and she asked for my phone number.
    Bruce Mowbray: So....
    Bruce Mowbray: My ethical question is....
    Bruce Mowbray: should I just say “NOOOOOOOO MOOOOOORE, Mark!”
    Bruce Mowbray: I do NOT want him to become dependent on me.
    Bruce Mowbray: although I have probably encouraged that without meaning to.
    Bruce Mowbray: If he calls and wants me to bail him out of jail. . . .
    Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmmm.
    Riddle Sideways: mom has a phone? or not?
    Bruce Mowbray: He does have a clinical disability.
    Bruce Mowbray: Mom has a phone, yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: The rest of the family has pretty much given up on him....
    Riddle Sideways: mom can't or won't help. or needs others to help too?
    Bruce Mowbray: even though he lives with his mom -- down the road from my farm.
    Riddle Sideways: ah, the rest have given up
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't think the mother would help him. . .
    Riddle Sideways: he needs and over-uses people
    Bruce Mowbray: I try to provide small jobs for him around my farm...
    Bruce Mowbray: so he can earn a bit of money.
    Riddle Sideways: that is good
    Bruce Mowbray: but he does not spend even a little money wisely.
    Riddle Sideways: but, giving and giving should stop
    Bruce Mowbray: He probably does not even have car insurance.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it should.
    Riddle Sideways: and may have drunk the money you gave?
    Bruce Mowbray: I've tried to help him to think he needs to EARN money - - not to expect me to just give it to him..
    Bruce Mowbray: although I did that last week so he could go to his father's funeral.
    Bruce Mowbray: also, he has a step brother other there who is autistic,
    Bruce Mowbray: and he said he really needed to be with that step brother,
    Bruce Mowbray: so I don't know what's going on.
    Bruce Mowbray: It might actually be that he's better off in jail.
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes it is
    Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes I just feel like scratching him off as a "loser" --- hillbilly genes, or whatever. But he has a good heart.
    Riddle Sideways: sounds like others have
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, do you think Botty would advise me to continue trying to help him?
    Riddle Sideways: at this point Botty would say both sides of the argument in the same sentence
    Bruce Mowbray: When he was getting a monthly disability check, his mother would take all of the money and then pay for his expenses herself....
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Bruce Mowbray: so he's still pretty much tied to her apron strings - even at the age of 35.
    Bruce Mowbray: I should not compare Mark with myself at the age of 35 -- but it's hard not to do that.
    Riddle Sideways: if he would have had control of that check he might have mis-spent it
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I'm sure he would have misspent it.
    Bruce Mowbray: so was his mother - sure he would have misspent it.
    Bruce Mowbray: But, meanwhile he is becoming a black hole for my savings -- and I'm not teaching him independence.
    Riddle Sideways: if you were teaching anything that would be different
    Riddle Sideways: giving him jobs around the farm for money would help
    Bruce Mowbray: Years ago, when he dropped out of high school, I tried to tutor him in the GED...
    Riddle Sideways: but not just give
    Bruce Mowbray: but he was not disciplined enough to work with me. He'd jump ahead to multiple-choice answers without even reading the questions!
    Bruce Mowbray: I taught prisoners prep for the GED at a state prison for eight years...
    Bruce Mowbray: and most of them passed the test.
    Bruce Mowbray: But Mark - doubtful.
    Riddle Sideways: the judge a guitar buddy's son is like that. However, he has been working at Safeway bagging groc for almost a year
    Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, I've tried to talk Mark into going back to MacDonalds.


    --BELL--


    Bruce Mowbray: that worked out pretty well for him and he liked it . . (a while back)
    Riddle Sideways: Mike takes his paycheck for him, but tells him all the time about His money
    Bruce Mowbray: When I went into town today, I saw lots of signs saying "Now Hiring" - and kept thinking of Mark.
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, that sounds like a good arrangement.
    Bruce Mowbray: I also worked with adults with retardation for thirteen years,
    Bruce Mowbray: but Mark is not mentally retarded,
    Riddle Sideways: then you know
    Bruce Mowbray: he just has several disorders -- mostly ADHD -- REALLY bad ADHD.
    Bruce Mowbray: should be medicated, but is not.
    Bruce Mowbray: He was on Ritalin through grade school -- and now refuses all meds.
    Riddle Sideways: so many cases like that
    Bruce Mowbray: anyway, I've been expecting the phone to ring all day - and to hear Mark's voice asking me to drive to eastern Ohio to get him out of jail.
    Bruce Mowbray: and I REALLY don't feel THAT generous.
    Bruce Mowbray: besides, I think I might be contributing to his irresponsibility.
    Riddle Sideways: and there is a car stuck over there
    Bruce Mowbray: He DOES have some excellent examples of responsible people in his life.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the car I gave him is over there....
    Bruce Mowbray: one of his cousins is taking care of it, his mom says.
    Riddle Sideways: now that is what you need to judge how much you are enabling or helping
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm more thinking of his needing bail money - or something like that.
    Bruce Mowbray: Still, no phone calls so far.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, am I enabling or helping?
    Bruce Mowbray: I want to think I am helping, but the track record is not good.
    Bruce Mowbray: He actually got a job in a factory this winter - where I know people, etc.
    Bruce Mowbray: but he only held that job for three weeks.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, it feels more and more like a lost cause.
    Bruce Mowbray: His mom actually tried to get him admitted to a nursing home where she is a cook.
    Bruce Mowbray: At least then he would have food and shelter -- aside from living with her, I mean.
    Bruce Mowbray: He has AMAZING survival skills, though.
    Bruce Mowbray: He's hitch-hiked all over the country.
    Bruce Mowbray: all over California.
    Bruce Mowbray: and around New York.
    Bruce Mowbray: He's very much into native American culture.
    Bruce Mowbray: a good artist, too.
    Bruce Mowbray: Makes all sorts of artistic works... I love his sculptures.
    Riddle Sideways: can he sell them?
    Bruce Mowbray: He carves sandstone -- and he flint-naps projectile points.
    Riddle Sideways: or team with somebody to sell them?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, I have encouraged him to sell them... but he's not gotten that far.
    Bruce Mowbray: I even put up a website for him...
    Bruce Mowbray: with lots of photos of his carvings.
    Bruce Mowbray: But that was years ago.
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, I now need to scoot to a meditation group.
    Bruce Mowbray: It starts at 2 slt.
    Riddle Sideways: ok, sorry can't provide THE answers
    Riddle Sideways: bye
    Bruce Mowbray: I know.
    Riddle Sideways: can listen tho
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel better just talking about it. Getting it off my chest, so to speak.
    Riddle Sideways: good luck
    Bruce Mowbray: Have a FINE weekend,
    Bruce Mowbray: and thank you
    Bruce Mowbray: Stay dry.
    Riddle Sideways: yep you too

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