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    2010.05.13 01:00 - Expressing the Inexpressible 

    Zen Arado: "The majority of those who have entered wu wei have no fore-knowledge of the event and only know that something extraordinary happened that they couldn't put into words." cat-and-mouse.jpg
    Zen Arado: from Wiki again
    Pema Pera: I'm not sure about majority, but yes, you can fall into it, and then call it an experience, and remember it as an experience -- which pretty much prevents you from "getting back to it"
    Pema Pera: the way I understand it, is that you have theory and experiment, roughly speaking
    Pema Pera: the "experience" which is not an experience, can happen spontaneously and also after long training, but not predictably
    Zen Arado: maybe as self diminishes we are more open to it as a natural ...way to be
    Pema Pera: and the "theory" then helps you to understand what happened and how to not lose it
    Wol Euler: "experience" doesn't feel quite right to me, because that is something that happens to me, whereas wu wei seems to happen *near* me (hard to explain)
    Pema Pera: it just happens :-)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: there is no separation between experiencer and what is experienced

    2010.05.13 07:00 - Dropping clouds one by one
    Storm Nordwind: Intuiting a recipe is wonderful. Just letting go and trusting. Very much like playing as being :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia is a recipe by the numbers person ^^
    Storm Nordwind: I'd have gone with someone else's numbers, but I couldn't find any! So I had to make them myself :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I have heard of intuiting a recipe...It reminds of something I read where it was suggested that the cook "listen to what the food sugggests be done"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Storm Nordwind is incorrigibly lazy
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I would, if I didnt want to eat it
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Lucinda Lavender: "What is it asking for?".
    Lucinda Lavender: :)

    2010.05.14 13:00 - Moment in time and a an new dimension of friday night sillyness thx to gaya and her manbo!

    Calvino Rabeni: Well, I need an "ego" too :) I keep hearing about those - but don't know where to buy one
    Agatha Macbeth: Aren't you supposed to have dropped it Cal?
    Darren Islar: and 'ego' you get or free, don't ask me why

    Calvino Rabeni: although I'm not one to grope around the limits :)
    Wol Euler grins.
    Wol Euler: oh, but the fringe-y bits are where the fun is

    Agatha Macbeth: Do we have a topic?
    arabella Ella: yes
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    arabella Ella: dropping egos and finding them again
    Mickorod Renard: what is it?
    Bertram Jacobus: topic is "being" i would say
    Bertram Jacobus: for example
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep, Being
    Bertram Jacobus: that is which we investigate

    Mickorod Renard: there is a danger I think,,that we may drop one and pick up another just as silly

     2010.05.13 19:00 - Call Me By True Names 

    stevenaia Michinaga: love the fluid nature of these conversations
    Paradise Tennant: yes they are like ambling walks
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: yet they alway find something personal that speaks to you
    stevenaia Michinaga: or... me
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bleu Oleander: or me
    Paradise Tennant: well always goes back to the we are one thing .. I think :)

     2010.05.14 01:00 - The what and the how 

    Wol Euler: the point is not so much looking up to, as the question of who leads the conversation. He is one
    of the few who actively leads, most (including myself, alas) let it go where it wants
    Darren Islar: true, but if you look up to someone it is easier to let him or her lead
    Darren Islar: and looking up is probably not exactly the right word here
    Darren Islar: or we are too lazy :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: comfortable
    Darren Islar: no longer prepare ourselves for a meeting
    Darren Islar: yes making it comfortable on ourselves
    Darren Islar: instead of asking the hard questions
    Darren Islar: (I have a feeling Pema likes where this conversation is going :-))
    Wol Euler grins
    Darren Islar: but I think it is both

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don't believe that there are "hard" questions, we have to drop the hard and ask the questions
     no matter what

    2010.05.14 07:00 - Deep (in the Ocean of) Time 

    Pema Pera: I'm working with time, lately, and during the break I felt how time is cradling us,
    how we are part of the weave of time, hard to put into words; what seems so concrete is ineffably so

    Eliza Madrigal: Pema, it may sound funny to ask, but how does one see everything 'directly', as time?
    Pema Pera: I don't know about that "one", Eliza, but . . .
    Pema Pera: for me it has a kind of shimmering quality, you could say, or liquid -- not as "empty" as space, but yet
    more "empty" also in a way
    Pema Pera: in the sense that space is presented anew at every moment
    Pema Pera: so out of the "emptiness" of time the "emptiness" of space arises in a way . . . .
    Pema Pera: making time doubly empty
    Pema Pera: and yet
    Pema Pera: time has this energy quality, this dynamic, making it less "just empty"
    Pema Pera: ah, words . . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: as lucidity ...?
    Pema Pera: that too, yes
    Pema Pera: Tibetans like to talk about "emptiness and clarity"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pema Pera: the clarity feels more like the time aspect 

    2010.05.14 19:00 - Fresh (on the) Air 

    stevenaia Michinaga: my cat seems to be joining me more often at these sessions, relaxing between me and
    my laptop with his head on my arm
    Calvino Rabeni: Sounds cosy!
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if he senses how relaxing all this is
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, animals sense that - relaxation, or sometimes, expectation - where the interest is
    Calvino Rabeni: where something might happen if you wait for it cat2.jpg
    Calvino Rabeni: I think cats tune into that
    Calvino Rabeni: instinctually - maybe - something tasty could show up :)
    Calvino Rabeni: My last cat would catch bats somehow - mostly by knowing where to wait I think
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, licking his fur and my arm
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: cats are a good example of doing by not doing
    stevenaia Michinaga: have bats come to them
    Calvino Rabeni: It works with people too - if one waits around by a lake, after a while, things come
    Calvino Rabeni: Today it was fish and a bird that swims underwater
    Calvino Rabeni: The animals know us, better than we know ourselves - except maybe in a scientific sense
    stevenaia Michinaga: much to be learned by waiting
    stevenaia Michinaga: speaks to patience
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, waiting, watching, with a feeling of what happens
    stevenaia Michinaga: or without any anticipation
    Calvino Rabeni: I think- "expect the unexpected" is an apt slogan
    Calvino Rabeni: Alertness
    Calvino Rabeni: Just don't know or expect what manner of thing may appear
    stevenaia Michinaga: the cat sleeps
    Calvino Rabeni: but a kind of "soft gaze" of awareness

    Calvino Rabeni: Even if the cat appears to be asleep, it is likely registering a lot of its environment 

    2010.05.15 01:00 - "The Centre Cannot Hold" 

    Bertrum Quan: How does your practice fare in the context of all of the world's difficulties?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmmm, there are always difficulties
    Scathach Rhiadra: or they can always be seen as difficuties
    Bertrum Quan: Yes, but do you ever find yourself distracted from your practice by the upheavals?
    Scathach Rhiadra: sure, sometimes even wonder why I bother, what can it matter
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Bertrum Quan: Sometimes it seems a bit like the Yeats poem--"the center cannot hold"
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: groundless
    Bertrum Quan: It's hard to be grounded.
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and particularly hard to be grounded in reality, not just our concepts and desires
    Scathach Rhiadra: I suppose that is why we need to practice:)
    Bertrum Quan: Yes, it is important to be centered. But don't you feel a strong tug toward activism as well?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it can be eay to fall into wanting a 'quietude', if that is the correct word, forgetting that real practice
    must involve body, speech or energy, and mind

    2010.05.15 13:00 - male and female energies

    Mickorod Renard: I think a fair proportion of the probs occur when the ideal isnt lived up to
    arabella Ella: and living in a country where there is no divorce makes that question even more difficult somehow to deal with
    Hokon Cazalet: id say not life-long monogamy, serial monogamy seems more natural
    Darren Islar: I don't feel monogamous
    arabella Ella: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The funny nature of an "ideal" is that it is usually an idea that holds a corrective role, that doesn't describe an ideal reality, but a way to change from current conditions
    Hokon Cazalet: i dont, but cuz i choose not to
    arabella Ella: well monogamy i am told is a form of social control by the state
    Calvino Rabeni: In other words, "ideals" by nature, don't point to truth / reality
    Darren Islar: right Cal, so we use the word ideal wrong here :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: whoa /not really, true love began as a revolt against the catholic church in the 13th century
    Calvino Rabeni: That is "is" vs "ought" again.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Hokon
    Mickorod Renard: corrective roles are quite handy for holding societies together
    Hokon Cazalet: and against the pre-arranged marriage system
    Calvino Rabeni: Romanticism and chivalry became wedded then
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    arabella Ella: it is in the interest of every state to encourage its citizens to have a family and to remain monogamous for the good of the economy ... so i am told
    Darren Islar: but still based on monogamy Hokon?
    Calvino Rabeni: It was an "ought-ideal" 

    2010.05.15 19:00 - Please Beware The Monkey 

    Pema Pera: Another neuroscientist at Columbia whom you *have* to see next time is Stuart Firestein -- or did you visit him already?
    Bleu Oleander: no we haven't
    Pema Pera: He has been teaching a class on "Ignorance" for several years now
    Bleu Oleander: oh sounds great
    Pema Pera: though "teaching" is not quite the right word :-)
    Pema Pera: rather, most of his weekly classes feature a guest lecturer
    Pema Pera: I was one of them, in February
    Bleu Oleander: great
    Bleu Oleander: that must have been fun
    Pema Pera: every year he has been teaching it, attendence has doubled -- a hundred now; not sure what he will do next year
    Bleu Oleander: what is his draw?
    Pema Pera: http://firestein.bio.columbia.edu/ignorance/
    Pema Pera: his main idea is: for every little thing we gain in knowledge, we can ask many new questions, so we become aware in much more detail how ignorant we are
    Pema Pera: so ignorance grows faster than knowledge
    Bleu Oleander: looks great .... yes Rudolfo talked about that also
    Pema Pera: so with all of our classes on various bits of knowledge, it's time to teach on ignorance :)

    -Scribe by Eliza

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