2009.05.31 07:00 - Music Begins to Play Itself

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    I left this withoug comments. Yakuzza, Udge, Avastu, Fael, SophiaLauen and Pema were prsentl along with myself with Pema answering our questions about the Appreciate the Presentation of the Appearance of the Presence of being practice which Pema and some of the others are doing.


    Udge Watanabe: hello yakuzza, adams
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello
    Adams Rubble: Hello Udge and Yakuzza :)
    Adams Rubble: I hope everyone is well and your practices are healthy :)
    Udge Watanabe: I am well, thanks, but my practice languishes.
    Adams Rubble: It is wonderful you could be here today :)
    Adams Rubble: So maybe not languishing that much :)
    Udge Watanabe: heheh
    Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu. It has been a long, long time
    Adams Rubble: welcome!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friends - love to you
    Udge Watanabe: Avastu, wow. Nice to see you again.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello avastu
    Udge Watanabe: how have you been?
    Avastu Maruti: perfect, and you?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Udge Watanabe: imperfect, but content
    Adams Rubble: Almost perfect Avastu :)
    Udge Watanabe is amused by our answers.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
    Udge Watanabe: hello fael, sophiasharon
    Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Avastu, Udge, Adams, Yakuzza, SophiaSharon :)
    Avastu Maruti: hello again my friend
    Fael Illyar: Greeting from Star, Avastu :)
    Avastu Maruti smiles
    Adams Rubble: Anything anyone would like to discuss?
    Adams Rubble: Any experience with the nine seconds?
    Adams Rubble: or 90 seconds (giggles)
    Adams Rubble: or 20 minutes of appreciation?
    Udge Watanabe: oh, are you doing that?
    Udge Watanabe: wow, pema's online, haven't seen him in the av-flesh in ages.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: No, I actually have not joined the group doing that formally although appreciation is a part of my present practive
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
    Udge Watanabe: hello pema, long time no see.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema
    Adams Rubble: Bonjour!
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams, Yakuzza, Udge, Fael and Sophia -- AND HI Avastu, how nice to see you again !!!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
    Pema Pera: I heard about your Urban Guru Cafe, which sounds really intriguing
    Pema Pera: did it open already?
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    Udge Watanabe: ah! tell us more?
    Avastu Maruti: the urban guru cafe is a website - speakers on nonduality - with a community of commenters
    Avastu Maruti: the SL UGC is a presence here - to listen to the episodes and watch videos
    Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
    Adams Rubble: Good morning Eliza!
    Pema Pera: and the speakers speak in RL, in a real Cafe -- or in various places in the world?
    Adams Rubble: whoops
    Udge Watanabe: hello eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eliza
    Pema Pera: hi Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael, Adams, Udge, Sophia, Pema, Yakuzza, Avastu :)
    Avastu Maruti: no - the speakers are only on mp3 podcasts - the SL cafe is the only real meeting place
    Pema Pera: how nice to have added an actual location then
    Pema Pera: "real" as in "virtual" :-)
    Avastu Maruti: ha! yes
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Udge Watanabe: for certain values of "real", then :)
    Fael Illyar: it allows people to meet. That's real enough.
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: Adams, you mentioned appreciation when I entered; do you mind summarizing that thread, or hinting at a summary?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I began by asking if anyone had anything to discuss and included your 100 days of appreciation in my list
    Adams Rubble: Udge asked me if I was appreciating for 20 minutes
    Adams Rubble: I said no but that appreciation has been part of my practice
    Pema Pera: fun way to put it, Udge :-)
    Udge Watanabe: phone
    Pema Pera: (Udge sounds like a zen master)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: fun - put - phone
    Adams Rubble: I hope I am not putting words in Udge's mouth
    Eliza Madrigal nods, that's what I would say also... that I like the emphasis but haven't seen myself sit for the 20 minutes with appreciation in mind yet
    Adams Rubble: I feel I am still in the process of discovery
    Pema Pera: one thing I've noticed while focusing on it every day for 20 minutes is a gradual shift, more and more away from me doing it, to it just happening, and me at the same time more as an observer yet also really involved -- hard to put into words
    Pema Pera: sorry, Adams, didn't mean to stop you!
    Adams Rubble: No problem, what you are saying is most interesting
    Adams Rubble: can you say more?
    Pema Pera: about which aspect?
    Adams Rubble: about the shifting away from you doing it
    Pema Pera: hmmm, less of an action, yet also no inaction, really something different from both
    Pema Pera: words are so limited here . . .
    Fael Illyar: what's the difference between action and inaction?
    Pema Pera: when I say "beyond duality" it sounds abstract, but the felt sense is very concrete
    Adams Rubble: merging?
    Pema Pera: usual there is quite a difference of course, Fael, and that's the point, that somehow that distinction is transcended
    Pema Pera: not so much merging
    Pema Pera: as more going to the root of both
    Pema Pera: seeing both e-merging :-)
    Pema Pera: sensing more then openness that allows both
    Pema Pera: *the
    Fael Illyar: no, seriously, what's the difference :)
    Pema Pera: seriously? When I drink tea it is normally considered more active than just staring at a cup of tea -- is that what you mean :-)
    Fael Illyar: that still doesn't tell the difference...
    Pema Pera: of course there are many levels of subtlety here, in which you somehow let go of more and more "doing", getting more and more in wu-wei -- but I'm not sure I understand your questions, Fael.
    Eliza Madrigal: The closest I get to understanding this so far, is that one night after contemplating a discussion here about the spaces being within the notes, I thought that in that place, music begins to play itself... both as an outward action one experiences, and an inward steadiness.
    Fael Illyar: because, to me, the difference between action and inaction feels quite completely abstract.
    Pema Pera: that's an interesting connection, Eliza!
    Pema Pera: But if we use every-day words, Fael, we have the choice between doing something or not -- and that choice is very concrete, as it is normally understood. Do you mean that the inward feeling can be similar?
    Adams Rubble: Eliza's observation then is a withdrawal from the self and that is the connection to what you are experiencing Pema?
    Pema Pera: withdrawing is perhaps not the right word
    Pema Pera: letting go of the illusion of there being a self, a central switchboard
    Pema Pera: and appreciating how nature/the universe/Being operates
    Adams Rubble: Seeing the nature/the universe/Being with different eyes?
    Pema Pera: let them see :-)
    Pema Pera: rather than seeing them
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Pema Pera: that "letting" is the shift I was trying to point to
    Adams Rubble: that answers Fael's question :)
    Pema Pera: yet not a passive letting -- not a sitting on the fence
    Pema Pera: in a strange way, without the walls of the ego, participation is actually more direct
    Pema Pera: and in some sense more active
    Pema Pera: as perhaps Fael also hinted at?
    Pema Pera: and I know Avastu has talked about a lot !
    Adams Rubble: It is amazing to me that I must constantly be reminded of the portals
    Adams Rubble: I forget so easily
    Eliza Madrigal: The funny thing seems that it takes "work" to get there, ie making the time to find 'a place' where it is possible to allow? To see? Choices are active.
    Adams Rubble: wrok to bounce out of our preoccupations
    Pema Pera: yes, that seems paradoxical, doesn't it?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Fael Illyar: I had a thought a few days ago to compare the mind to a country. With consciousness being the government.
    Adams Rubble hopes her mind does not include George Bush (giggles)
    Eliza Madrigal: heh Adams... Who? :)
    Adams Rubble: forget already?
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye everyone :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Sophia :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema, there was also a phrase you used with regard to the appreciation excercize, which I liked, and have thought about but in sort of a distant way.... "raw givenness"
    Eliza Madrigal: Is there anything else you can say about what you mean by that? If you have time?
    Pema Pera: yes, when we deal with anything at all, anything that appears, we normally see only the handle, the judgment, rather than what appears as such
    Pema Pera: a chair is seen as something to sit on, primarily
    Pema Pera: a spoon as something to eat with
    Pema Pera: a friend often also, in a subtle way, as something to "get" something from -- perhaps not overtly so, but if we really look into our hearts of hearts, that may be the case -- for me at least I keep discovering more and more subtle layers like that, which I didn't see earlier . . . rather sobering
    Pema Pera: a friend as something to learn from, or to feel less lonely through, etc etc
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay.. thank you. And I do see that... we can see someone as what we think they are 'supposed' to be to us.
    Pema Pera: oh yes, we tend to do that all the time
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pema Pera: and then we see a few layers of the onion, peel those off, and congratulate ourselves that NOW we can be with someone in an honest way
    Pema Pera: until we see ever more subtle layers :-)
    Pema Pera: only by dropping something do we become aware we were carrying that kind of ballast
    Pema Pera: does that respond to your question, Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, in some ways it does
    Pema Pera: are there other aspects?
    Fael Illyar: what do you mean with this "being with someone in an honest way"?
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose it is something to work with... that when you think "I've got this" you're about to find out something you haven't got :)
    Pema Pera: yes, it's a continuous process . . . and it's important to be both gentle and persistent
    Pema Pera: gentle in not forcing the process, letting it unfold
    Eliza Madrigal: And for developing compassion with people.. essential...stripped down
    Pema Pera: persistent in not getting overly satisfied with progress to the point of giving up and congratulating yourself
    Pema Pera: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Rather ties into something I thought of yesterday.... that when people describe 'rebirth' experiences....
    Eliza Madrigal: really that may just be a glimpse of beginnings, but they mistaken it for the whole shebang... the point
    Fael Illyar: Also, understanding that it's a lifelong progress and not punish yourself when you think you're moving too slow.
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Fael
    Pema Pera: /nods too
    Pema Pera nods too :-)
    Fael Illyar: no deadlines :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, in a society that doesn't appreciate these insights, like ours, teh first real insight may seem like "no I got it all!" -- very sticky and dangerous
    Pema Pera: indeed, no deadlines, yet also no slackening, but rather continuous engagement
    Adams Rubble: The Buddhist idea of not making a distinction between one's loved ones and everyone else as far as compassion is concerned seemed to be related to what you are saying about friends Pema
    Pema Pera: ah, that's a sticky wicket, Adams :-)
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: I don't think they really suggest that you should not make a difference
    Pema Pera: at least in daily everyday life
    Adams Rubble sighs with relief
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: yet at the same time, you also extend your love and compassion everywhere
    Pema Pera: like in Christianity!
    Pema Pera: everyone is your neighbor
    Pema Pera: as you will be reminded at during the youngest day :-)
    Pema Pera: "anything you did to xxx you did to me"
    Pema Pera: Really, Christianity is as radical as Buddhism in that sense, don't you think, Adams?
    Pema Pera: Jesus telling his disciples to leave their family, not even to return for a funeral: let the dead bury the dead -- WOW
    Adams Rubble: It always is easier for me to understand what Christianity is getting at.
    Pema Pera: yes, immersion helps to get the sense beyond the words!
    Adams Rubble: Yes, very similar
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: don;t get hung up on words :)
    Adams Rubble: or metaphors (hopefully)
    Pema Pera: yet it is impossible to hug everyone every day, with billions of people on the planet -- so you hug your friends, very natural :-)
    Adams Rubble: and smile when you see them
    Pema Pera: yet also smile to others when that is natural
    Pema Pera: "natural" is really the key, "effortless"
    Udge Watanabe: back, sorry about that
    Adams Rubble: wb Udge :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Forgiveness is impossible without that element I think though, to drop distinctions ie "this person is ___ *to me* and therefore *should* ___. ___"
    Pema Pera: yes, good point, Eliza!
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes people are berated "you should forgive", but getting in a place where you can trust enough to drop those distinctions, isn't without that paradoxical effort mentioned before?
    Pema Pera: yes, really, that is the whole paradox
    Pema Pera: to force yourself a bit to find a place where you don't have to force
    Pema Pera: very funny, really :-)
    Fael Illyar: this forcing myself idea stopped making sense to me a while ago.
    Fael Illyar: it kind of requires dividing yourself into two parts.
    Pema Pera: yet, if you don't force at all, it may be hard to continue
    Pema Pera: unless you're fully enlightened :-)
    Pema Pera: it's always this tricky question of balance
    Adams Rubble: It does take some effort to smile, instead of scowl, at the neighbor who cuts your blooming azalea bush
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: you have a good learning environment, Adams, what with the dog . . .
    Fael Illyar: not everything can be handled with a smile :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: well, time to get back to RL
    Fael Illyar: unless, of course, you're fine with it. :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
    Udge Watanabe grins. Nice to see you again, Pema.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Pema :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Pema Pera: great talking with y'all
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Fael Illyar: Nice to talk to you again :)
    Adams Rubble: Take good care :)
    Pema Pera: and good luck with the urban guru cafe, Avastu!
    Avastu Maruti smiles
    Eliza Madrigal takes note of cafe name... in SL, Avastu?
    Avastu Maruti: Urban Guru Cafe
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice, thanks
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Eliza Madrigal thinks we can be so removed perhaps Fael, that what is natural can seem odd.
    Fael Illyar: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, like breath.... that we need to re-learn how to appreciate taking breaths...
    Eliza Madrigal: or at least I've had to....
    Eliza Madrigal: how odd!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes... it's amazing how perfectly natural things can feel odd.
    Eliza Madrigal nods and smiles
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