Hajj - Dialog with Pema

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    .Dear Sophia,

    Thank you so much for your detailed descriptions of your
    experiences with Hajj, in your two emails!

    The sense of appreciation of life comes through very clearly,
    and the notion of being able to start again, from scratch in
    some way.  In Christianity there is the term "born again",
    and even though that term is often misused, especially by
    fundamentalist Christians, in itself it is a beautlful notion.

    I'm glad also to see the connection you made with the PaB idea
    of dropping what you have in order to see what you are; for

    example in what you wrote:

    > my personal feeling in ihram is : this is me , remove my tag name ,
    > remove my family name , remove my name , remove my titles , remove
    > my certificate , remove my social status


    I find it very inspiring to see and feel these parallels between
    what we are trying to share in PaB, and what you feel in your
    religion, and what others in PaB experience in their own traditions,
    from Christianity to Hinduism to Taoism and other ones.  Sometimes
    people get the impression that PaB is dominated by Buddhism, and
    indeed, perhaps half  of the regular PaB participants have an
    interesting in some form of Buddhism, but we definitely have
    equal room for all traditions.


    I was intrigued also by what you wrote:

    > thats why it was said : take your chance between the 2 inhalations


    Can you tell us more about that?  Does that mean to be conscious
    of your life during every breath you take?

    Thank you again,

    Pema

    _____

    Hello

    To answer the question i must say first that there is dropping and there is a dropping

    what we do in pab we do it to explore , we drop for a minute then we back  to our normal sense of time and place , traditions and habits

    in my religion dropping -tajarud- we do it to see better to act better and eventually to reach heavens

    we hold on it and live it , and we dont drop what would not modify our life , we usually dont drop time and space , we dont drop hope

    it is not a  concious the state we reach after dropping , it is a glimps of  conciousness and we keep refining it everyday

    and you may lose that  concious you got by forgetfullness , being overwhiled by worries and such , human is weak physically and spiritually , we tend to go hopless for the silliest things in life , our hawa and inflated ego  also work as anti  concious

    what we do daily is trying to explore a new aspect of  conciousness for one issue then add it to prevous conciousness or correcting it or modifying it , the point is you would not hold on that insight perminantly unless you work on it daily

    the poeple who actually drop all layers that were covering their insight are few , belived to be prophets and few others

    those are said to see things on their reality , human are not humans , one might look like a pig a donkey or dog , depend on what animal he/she resemble most with his/her acts

    rocks are not the static rocks so is trees and all things in this world of  conciousness and we keep refining it everyday

    i hope this answers the question :)

    _____

    Thank you again, Sophia, for your thoughtful reflections!

    Yes, PaB is unusually radical/different from most traditional
    forms of practice, at least in spirit.  In practice, it may well
    be that many or most of us in PaB "drop things for a minute and
    then get back to normal life" but the idea is to gradually learn
    to extend that attitude more and more and to let it pervade our
    whole life -- with "dropping" in the spirit of "wearing lightly";
    dropping a heavy attitude, living more in a wu-wei way.

    PaB also does not aim at reaching any conscious state; rather the
    idea is to drop any notion of "state" (though at first that may
    seem strange if not impossible).  Catching glimpese and refining
    them is a perfectly fine way of working with PaB as well, either
    just with PaB, or in combination with any other tradition.

    And yes, I don't expect anyone in PaB quickly to rise to a level
    of insight comparable to that of prophets or saints in any of the
    main religious traditions.  Rather, the emphasis is not so much
    on "realization" as such but rather "play as" or specifically
    "play as Being" in order to already invite and invoke the
    fulness of Being well before any kind of "complete realization".

    This is the most difficult aspect of Play as Being to convey,
    and yet also the most central aspect.

    Thank you again,

    Pema

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