2016.02.25 13:00 - TSK Session: Grappling with Great Space, Adventures in the Amazon

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardians for this meeting were Eliza and Mick. The corresponding wiki page
    for this session within the Time Space Knowledge pages is: 2016.02.25 - The Body and Human Embodiment - 4

     

    NOTES:

    - After the session is over, some of us linger to hear about Mick's weeks long adventure in and around the Amazon.
    - Following Mick's stories, he asks a follow up question about his experiences with the exercises.
    - Housekeeping items toward the bottom include an ART PROJECT for the next few weeks, and continuation of Monday 1pm freestyle TSK session.

    - Below are a few urls to the famous milk bottle sessions that Wol mentioned in her report:

    https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2009/03/2009.03.08_07%3a00_-_Time_and_the_Bottle

    This is the one where the milk bottle is introduced: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2009/03/2009.03.08_13%3a00__-__Zeroth_time

    https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2009/03/2009.03.15_13%3a00_-_Being_time_is_0th_time
    https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2009/03/2009.03.17_13%3a00_-_Pema_goes_Wol_and_visa_versa

    {more theme sessions found here: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Theme_Sessions }
     

    PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING PAGE FOR NEXT WEEK'S HOMEWORK:

    2016.03.03 - The Mind and Origin of Appearance


    2 - Group.jpg
     

    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: hi :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How is the day?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: pretty good :)
    Eliza Madrigal: glad :)
    Eliza Madrigal: brb, going to send notice and get tea
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Now waiting for kettle to whistle
    Eliza Madrigal: hope i sent the right link
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :) I didn't even look
    Eliza Madrigal: it just says "pavilion" but my inventory is a mess
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm sure it'll be fine :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I spent some time last month cleaning my inventory :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Eden :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: was amazing how much was there, you a bit older than I so couldn't imagine that one
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :D :p :D :p :D
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ok so how in the world did i do that
    Eden Haiku: Having fun Cat :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've done deep inventory cleaning before, but the accumulations seem to just happen
    Catrinamonblue Resident: silly typing thing I gues
    Eden Haiku: Hello Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: oh wow, some boots, Eden!
    Eliza Madrigal zooms
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it happens with "wee" Cat. i have that too, like the "app" trigger
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :))
    Riddle Sideways: Hi All
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ah :) lol
    Eden Haiku: hello Riddle :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi Mick. welcome
    Eliza Madrigal: and Riddle not so formal today, looks comfy
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick! Welcome back
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Mick :)
    Eden Haiku: Hi Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi guys
    Riddle Sideways: hakama pajamas :)
    Eliza Madrigal: love


    Eliza Madrigal: Did everyone see my earlier email?
    Mickorod Renard: yes ty
    Riddle Sideways: Mick, do tell all your stories
    Eden Haiku: Oh no, checking now :)
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :) just a few notes and a question [see end of session for "housekeeping"]
    Mickorod Renard: gosh, no time for my stories
    Riddle Sideways: yes, read many Eliza emails
    Eden Haiku: Yes, Mick, please do tell :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Can you give a connect-the-dots type update? lol
    Riddle Sideways: is there a session time that you will tell????
    Riddle Sideways: the amazon deserves a whole session
    Mickorod Renard: just toasted myself on a few islands and then went pirahna fishing,,thats about all
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eden Haiku: piranha fishing, wow!
    Riddle Sideways: oh just that
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
    Mickorod Renard: Amazon was huge, I only went down the big bit
    Mickorod Renard: Hi bruce
    Riddle Sideways: hi Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi hi hi!
    Eden Haiku: hello Bruce :)

    Mickorod Renard: worst was i didnt focus as much as i would have liked in tsk
    Riddle Sideways: why not? :D
    Mickorod Renard: my apols for that
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you are forgiven :) It would be nice to know where you are though, in relation to the reading and such
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe we can start with you today?
    Mickorod Renard: I made it beyond
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
    Riddle Sideways: herez Aggers
    Bruce Mowbray: Hey, aggers.
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Eliza Madrigal: I need to step away for a second to pour tea.. won't be long, brb
    Mickorod Renard: Hi aggers
    Agatha Macbeth: Will be AFK for 5 mins
    Eden Haiku: Bonjour Agatha :)
    Riddle Sideways: good practice not to pour tea over keyboard

     

    We begin with Mickorod


    Mickorod Renard: I could start but i fear I have little to offer
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Mickorod Renard: shall I tap something out now?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, back
    Riddle Sideways: please
    Eliza Madrigal: sure
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Mickorod Renard: I went about 6 pages beynd cptr2 ex 10
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi y'all
    Eliza Madrigal: (Mick is starting today)
    Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi bLeu
    Mickorod Renard: but basically I got a bit lost and could feel some similar feelings to what Cat expressed
    Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu.
    Mickorod Renard: Hi bleu
    Mickorod Renard: a certain amount of self doubt ect
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I also was trapped by something in my mind
    Mickorod Renard: it was a separation from my own self in that of body
    Mickorod Renard: what I mean is
    Mickorod Renard: is that earlier I had experienced seeing my body looking at the big body
    Mickorod Renard: and recognised this seperate self
    Mickorod Renard: and as such explored trying to be in space without attached body
    Mickorod Renard: I got in a loop cos I always had some sort of point of origin
    Mickorod Renard: anyway, I did experience some merging into all space which sort of turned me inside out and lost my sence of body
    Mickorod Renard: i also noted that I lost all notion of my physical self
    Mickorod Renard: oops typos
    Eliza Madrigal: (no worries will fix)

    Eden Haiku: :)
    Mickorod Renard: then this evening reading about what Bruce had said re a pal and nde
    Bruce Mowbray: ?
    Mickorod Renard: reminded me of my nde some 10 years or so ago
    Eliza Madrigal: near death experience
    Bruce Mowbray: oh, near death experiences, sry.
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Mickorod Renard: and was reminded of the amazing feeling I had to be free of my body and its attachments
    Mickorod Renard: and pain and everything
    Mickorod Renard: ..thats about it,,my great fear now is that I have lost track of whatwe have as an objective
    Mickorod Renard: done


    Eliza Madrigal: :) I don't think we can get lost
    Mickorod Renard: phew
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Mick.
    Riddle Sideways: first part seems like a very good experience exercise, except for loops and trapped
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you Mick - seems very connected to where we are actually
    Bleu Oleander: what is our objective?
    Eden Haiku: Lots of movements Mick: in a loop, turning inside out. Very lively!
    Eliza Madrigal: exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: with the exercises, were you either aware of the body and vague sense of being 'in space' *or* aware of yourself, but not simultaneously?
    Eliza Madrigal: also, we are just today finishing exercise 10, so you have read ahead of some of us :)
    Mickorod Renard: sort of a popping in and out
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay, thanks very much :)))


    Eliza Madrigal: shall we travel the circle?
    Eliza Madrigal: even if we are shaped like a crescent?
    Bleu Oleander: (are we saving questions until we go all around?)
    Agatha Macbeth: Back
    Eden Haiku: I can go next if you want.
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so Bleu, if we can, just to make sure everyone can report
    Bleu Oleander: ok thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: was just concerned for Mick first since not with us the last few weeks
    Eliza Madrigal: Please, Eden :))
    Eden Haiku: ok


    Eden


    Eden Haiku: Chapter 2 exercises 9 & 10: The embodied person
    Agatha Macbeth: Here comes Wollie
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: 1- Been working on a new body-mind-thought-emotion interplay for a while: a potent one.
    Eden Haiku: 2- My whole culture has been in collective shock for a week or so about some revelation.
    Eden Haiku: 3-I'm writing this over what I first wrote until late into the night. 
    Eden Haiku: 4-This potent interplay of bodily sensations, feelings and thoughts resonates so deeply in me, it's blinding.
    Eden Haiku: 5- The giant body was becoming way too translucent.
    Eden Haiku: 6-The agony of both the revelation and the glaze of silence is explosive.
    Eden Haiku: 7-Making the rendering of the giant body opaque again, I feel I can breathe. 
    Eden Haiku: 8- Not coming out of the observer point of view of the embodied person is like swimming upstream: very hard.
    Eden Haiku: 9- Leaving the body It's what you do when a sudden flood of data overwhelms your nervous system. 
    Wol Euler: yay, thank you
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay
    Eden Haiku: 10-I do want to reenter the body-mind-thought-emotion interplay in order to thaw the frozen little girl in her icy sarcophagus. 
    Eden Haiku: 11-She's a translucent embodiment of a part of me who has been estranged for a very long time, in a higher order of space
    Eden Haiku: vibrant with guardian angels, and she takes ages to  come back to her senses. 
    Eden Haiku: 12-As I float back to the observer from the future that I have a tendency to embody on her timeline, the little one vanishes again from the screen of my consciousness.
    Eden Haiku: 13-And I become the emptiness in which all this brew and foam of being is forming. 
    Eden Haiku: 14- And as "space is projecting space into space",
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Eden Haiku: all this sequence of events is being healed and repaired and forgiven and reconciled.
    Eden Haiku: 15- Allowing all my scattered selves to come into One.
    Eden Haiku: 16-And then only, can I see the Dharma Wheel turning into Great Space.
    Eden Haiku: 17- Done.


    Riddle Sideways: Wol, drops in :) hi
    Wol Euler waves.
    Eliza Madrigal: So disorienting for a while there, Eden
    Eden Haiku: hi Wol :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol, happy you made it :))
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Not otters this week :(
    Wol Euler: it took a while

    Mickorod Renard: I am lost for words Eden
    Agatha Macbeth: She does that
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: nods :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: still amazed by your ability to articulate primordial and temporal at once, ty
    Bleu Oleander: I think you're reading a different book than I am :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Would you like to go next Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: but I love listening to you!
    Eden Haiku: I think so too Bleu :)
    Bleu Oleander: oh ok
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe we are all reading different books :)


    Bleu


    Bleu Oleander: I think so!
    Riddle Sideways: almost certainly
    Bleu Oleander: because we all bring ourselves to our interpretations
    Bleu Oleander: we are the other part of reading
    Eliza Madrigal: well said
    Bleu Oleander: same with experience
    Bleu Oleander: and the exercises
    Bleu Oleander: I am still feeling that the exercises are exercises in imagination
    Bleu Oleander: I also feel the knowing is a knowing by me as knower
    Bleu Oleander: I feel the openness
    Bleu Oleander: I don't call it Great Space
    Bleu Oleander: but I suspect its similar
    Bleu Oleander: I'm more conscious of a wider mental space
    Bleu Oleander: trying to keep that during my experiences
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
    Bleu Oleander: I cannot separate my "self" from my "knowing" except in a non-conscious way
    Bleu Oleander: in that I don't consciously focus on my "self"
    Bleu Oleander: but I think without a sense of self I would not "know" anything consciously, but could function in a non-conscious way
    Bleu Oleander: non-conscious knowing is vast
    Bleu Oleander: conscious knowing seems much more prone to error
    Bleu Oleander: ok nuff for now :)


    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Bleu.
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: can hear you paying very close attention Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: noticing fine lines
    Eliza Madrigal: ty!
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (Wol had such a cute landing, too bad having trouble staying ^.^)
    Eliza Madrigal: quick, glue the cushion
    Riddle Sideways: wb, bye, wb wol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Eden Haiku: indeed Riddle :)


    Eliza Madrigal: Wol are you up to giving a report today? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: can be a sliver
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe a short one?
    Wol Euler: I'm struggling with it
    Wol Euler: I keep hearing echoes of my infamous "milk bottle" discussions with Pema
    Agatha Macbeth: ?
    Wol Euler: and I try to forget that and ride over it
    Wol Euler: I find it fascinating and intriguing and sometimes plain annoying
    Wol Euler: and that will have to do for now

    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you are looking around the corner already! :))) Those were great discussions though, will find for the log.  [see top of session!]
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bleu Oleander: must have missed that somehow ... would like a link :)
    Mickorod Renard: intrigued
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll find them...they are time discussions :)
    Wol Euler: they were, and that is exactly the point at which I gave up on TSK last time around
    Eden Haiku: smiles back at Wol, thanks dear :)
    Wol Euler: which I regret
    Wol Euler: so I am trying

    Eliza Madrigal: The thing is, we don't have to figure out anything or come to any satisfactory conclusion at any point whatsoever
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Wol
    Eden Haiku: That's a relief :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Bleu Oleander: not even a new reality?
    Agatha Macbeth: Erk
    Bruce Mowbray: This exploration is not about orthodoxy, folks.
    Agatha Macbeth: Good job
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel it sometimes too, so not saying that as though a correction at all!
    Eliza Madrigal: it is a 'tendency'
    Eden Haiku: A tendency hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: Is someone ready to go next?
    Bruce Mowbray: I can.
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce :)


    Bruce


    Bruce Mowbray: I will be brief, so everyone has a chance to speak. When I first read the book - several years ago - its ideas an exercises seemed metaphysical and a bit off-the-wall.
    Bruce Mowbray: But, as I said on Monday (I think it was Monday),
    Bruce Mowbray: "space" now seems the most real thing - - the "realest" thing, if you will.
    Bruce Mowbray: The exercises have become very very practical.
    Bruce Mowbray: I am engaging in self directed neuroplasticity
    Bruce Mowbray: I am building a "new reality" through making a new way of "seeing" and appreciating what is here.
    Bruce Mowbray: The exercises feel to me like koans.
    Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, I do so appreciate the step-by-step approach,
    Bruce Mowbray: and guidance of the book.
    Bruce Mowbray: It is no longer off the wall, at all.
    Bruce Mowbray: I can't imagine anything more concrete or practical for my life right now.
    Bruce Mowbray: [done]


    Riddle Sideways: good for you, Bruce. Your on the Yellow Brick Road
    Eliza Madrigal: :) very nice Bruce, relate very much
    Bruce Mowbray: :0
    Bruce Mowbray: Don't forget to stop and smell the poppies.

    Agatha Macbeth: Zzzz
    Eliza Madrigal read poopie
    Eliza Madrigal: too much puppy walking, lol
    Bruce Mowbray listens.
    Agatha Macbeth: >.<
    Wol Euler: yes so did I
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Eliza Madrigal giggles

    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well you certainly wouldn't smell it
    Eden Haiku: agrees with Bruce: very pratical koans indeed :) I also connect the exercises to what happens in my life. thanks Bruce :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Riddle, ready?
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to think that Bruce had the objective there


    Riddle

    Riddle Sideways: ex. 9B and 9C are almost identical to several done for years, yet were so much fun and joy to pointedly do again and again. will keep repeating them for years.
    Riddle Sideways: ex. 10A "Polarize" was at first a strange word and later became the key word to the exercise as an integral relationship
    Riddle Sideways: 10B. true, had not much success. Stopping was temporary and slid forward or backward. More properly; a relationship morphing. 10C. did it, enjoyed it and even think 'got it'. Unless the understanding of the wording of the exercise meant something else :} echoes of Cat's sentiments
    Riddle Sideways: Then
    Riddle Sideways: Allowing a sentence to resonate Your discovery - that "everything is 'space' ' ' - is itself 'space'!
    Riddle Sideways: and 'knowing' it always has been just never typesetting it that way
    Riddle Sideways: and 'knowing' it always has been just never typesetting it that way
    Riddle Sideways: darn
    Riddle Sideways: 2. Great Space is infinite and nowhere (no position) is funny words, but works now
    Riddle Sideways: 3. SPSIS "space projecting space into space" all happens in an infinite Great Space.
    Riddle Sideways: There is a half formed aha bursting in, but not enough in space to be codified into words to share!
    Riddle Sideways: done, speedy quick


    Eliza Madrigal: there is lots to take in there...very insightful
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Riddle.
    Eden Haiku: "A half-formed aha bursting in ": that's evocatiove Riddle :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, much to ponder
    Agatha Macbeth: Aha 0.5
    Eliza Madrigal repeats sentiment that re-reading sessions is a must
    Riddle Sideways: yep. wait for Aha 0.99
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: hehe!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hmm
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Agatha, comments today?
    Agatha Macbeth: Not really
    Eliza Madrigal: ok :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So coming to Cat!
    Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
    Riddle Sideways: why skip Eliza?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I have only exercise 1 to 6.. I'm not sure if you all want to step backwards with me or not...
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I can if wanted :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Skip to the Cat my darlin'
    Eliza Madrigal: will make a few comments after, but posted report so will give link (ty!)
    Eden Haiku: yes we do!
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes please Cat
    Eliza Madrigal: would like to hear how you're doing
    Catrinamonblue Resident: ok :))
    Mickorod Renard: I am needing going back


    Catrinamonblue

    (I'm sorry that the log lost the wonderful format for Cat's report! If reading Cat, I'd be so appreciative if you could replicate from your notes) (done :))

    Catrinamonblue Resident: 1 The Giant Body
     
     blue eyes
     fair skin
     red hair
     
     sparkles in the dark of the night
     shines bright in the light of day
     laughs and plays in the wind of a thousand star
    Eden Haiku: beautiful Cat! I can see her!
    Agatha Macbeth: Sounds familiar somehow
    Catrinamonblue Resident:2 Internal Details
     
     heart beats a rhythm
     blood flows the river
     fluid conducts the orchestra
     playing the universe

    Catrinamonblue Resident:3 The Micro Level
     
     sparkles float
     zapping
     sliding
     moving far to fast
     yet standing still

    Catrinamonblue Resident: 4 Shining outlines
     
     the edge of the universe
     the three edge sword
     balance upon
     the edge so fine
     it cuts very deep
     no blood to drop
     no head to leak tears of pain upon the world

    Eden Haiku: Magnificent!
    Catrinamonblue Resident: 5 Released to Space
     
     no beginnings
     no endings
     only encompassing
     holding space
     being space
     space being
     and yet being nothing
    Catrinamonblue Resident:6 Open and close
     
     when you open your eyes you "see" the sky
     when closed you "see" the light

    Eden Haiku: :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: does one make the other invalid?
    Catrinamonblue Resident: done :)


    Eliza Madrigal: wow, can feel every part of this so differently!
    Mickorod Renard: nice
    Bleu Oleander: lovely Cat
    Catrinamonblue Resident: sorry to take up so much space ;)
    Riddle Sideways: beautiful
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: an embracing vision, captures the exploration well I think
    Agatha Macbeth: It's a long page ;P
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :-D
    Eliza Madrigal: hah Aggers, exactly
    Eden Haiku: A great TSK poem Cat! I love it!
    Riddle Sideways: infinite space to write in, Cat
    Eliza Madrigal: ::claps:::
    Catrinamonblue Resident: blushes
    Bleu Oleander: clearly the poets among us have the most captivating reports!
    Eden Haiku: **********Applause!!**********
    Eden Haiku: **********Applause!!**********
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Bruce Mowbray: :)


    Eliza Madrigal: I'm totally immersed with each... is really amazing
    Riddle Sideways: by wol
    Eliza Madrigal: just such different ways of immersion
    Agatha Macbeth: There goes Wol again :(
    Riddle Sideways: 9 ways of immersion
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps Great Space is poetry
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Your poetry goes directly to the heart of the experience Cat and you are so precise!
    Agatha Macbeth: Meow
    Catrinamonblue Resident: oh ty :) had such a time getting started
    Catrinamonblue Resident: but once I got there I was there :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Starting is always the hardest bit
    Eliza Madrigal: a bloom worth waiting for :)
    Bruce Mowbray: for sure...
    Bleu Oleander: thinks of asking Cat to write my report next week :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hah :P
    Eden Haiku: You were Catrina! We have time to listen to Eliza now maybe?


    Eliza


    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, so here is the link to my practical report, although it is really more observations and feelings....https://wiki.playasbeing...Not_Coming_Out
    Agatha Macbeth: The Cat wrote my homework
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: WB Wollie
    Eliza Madrigal: I find that I try to work with it like Riddle does... systematically but also dwelling on bits
    Eden Haiku: Agatha :)))
    Riddle Sideways: wb, and sticks the landing
    Eliza Madrigal: however, what I end up with doesn't quite come packaged as would be best for sharing
    Eliza Madrigal: one thing I noticed myself doing today on the way home from getting my son, was holding objects in mind
    Agatha Macbeth adjusts Wol's antlers to a different setting
    Bleu Oleander: "Great Space does not become something." ... so perhaps we cannot share it?
    Bruce Mowbray ponders walking between orthodoxy and magic . . . to and through the field beyond right-thinking and wrong-thinking....
    Eliza Madrigal: and contemplating the way the book talks about appearances as space emerging from space
    Eliza Madrigal: so many cars on the way home... and considering them space...wow...strange,
    Bruce Mowbray listens carefully to Eliza.
    Bleu Oleander: probably not good to do while driving :)
    Eliza Madrigal: unlike the little meditation stone I've had for years, which I picked up on a walk in Princeton
    Eliza Madrigal: which displays such openness
    Eden Haiku: the lila dance of phenomenon...
    Eliza Madrigal: but, energetic and marvelous...permeating everything happily
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm loving this :))
    Eliza Madrigal: (done)

    Bruce Mowbray: ty, Eliza. wonderful.
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: What was it doing in Princeton?
    Wol Euler: waiting for her, obviously.
    Eliza Madrigal: obviously
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eden Haiku: Having fun doing the exercises, that's wonderful Eliza!
    Agatha Macbeth: The philosopher's stone maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: The rock lives next to my sand buddha in parinirvana pose
    Eliza Madrigal: :)


    Riddle Sideways: ummmm, there might be a law in your state to not translucieate reality while driving
    Eliza Madrigal: I know....
    Eliza Madrigal: worse than texting probably eep
    Eliza Madrigal: it just sort of happens but mostly at stops
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Tuesdays Wednesdays and Fridays
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: After 7 PM
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay so I have housekeeping questions
    Agatha Macbeth: Use a broom
    Bruce Mowbray: Ya gotta find your own otters . . . No one can "answer" the koan for you.
    Eden Haiku: Ah, yes!
    Mickorod Renard: them otters are rare here
    Bruce Mowbray: :0


    HOUSEKEEPING QUESTIONS


    Eliza Madrigal: 1) The next chapter - is everyone up to working with the whole next week, or do we want to take two?
    Bruce Mowbray listens for more on housekeeping.
    Eliza Madrigal: "Mind and the Origin of Appearance"
    Eliza Madrigal: It is a natural progression from where we are
    Eliza Madrigal: but a bit of reading
    Mickorod Renard: I can have a go
    Eliza Madrigal: It is 3 exercises basically.. 11 to 14
    Riddle Sideways: can try, but maybe appear as a cube again
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bruce Mowbray: I'd like to do the whole next chapter.... (Chapter 3)
    Agatha Macbeth: Box clever
    Mickorod Renard: are you sure I havnt lost the plot?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) quite, Mick
    Wol Euler: perhaps take it as a unit, then see how many weeks we need to spend on it?
    Eliza Madrigal: If we get to next week and need to extend, we will
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay perfect
    Wol Euler: right
    Eliza Madrigal: but for now we'll plan one week
    Eden Haiku: Perfect yes!


    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, item 2
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: we met Monday and it was fun, and I think a bit helpful, but I'm not sure whether to keep that going?
    Eliza Madrigal: we could meet just 'as needed'?
    Agatha Macbeth: I forgot all about it
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh, I hope we will - - -
    Riddle Sideways: yes, should
    Bruce Mowbray: but no one (especially Eliza) should feel obligated to attend. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Bruce Mowbray: or to lead it.
    Mickorod Renard: what time is it?
    Riddle Sideways: right, we don't need eLiza here
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I did need it and am grateful for it, I would like to try again but I'm not sure of my sched next Monday yet, might be a bit late
    Eliza Madrigal: other sessions also can be helpful to each other
    Riddle Sideways: 1300
    Mickorod Renard: ty
    Eliza Madrigal: okay so we'll keep that next week as "for the time being" also
     

    Mickorod Renard: what time is that Ags in real money?
    Eden Haiku: It was helpful to push on Cat a bit, gently, but it worked so well today! Maybe Cat just needed to express the self-sabotaging. And now it's gone!
    Agatha Macbeth: Which Mick?
    Riddle Sideways: how many agenda items?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Eden, yes
    Mickorod Renard: 13;00
    Eliza Madrigal: one more...3 is last....
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :0
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm wondering if we want to try an art project over next few weeks
    Agatha Macbeth: 1300 SLT = 9 PM UK
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu mentioned a few weeks ago and maybe now is the right time
    Eliza Madrigal: even if casual
    Bruce Mowbray: 1300 = 1p.m. EST (USA).
    Bleu Oleander listens
    Eliza Madrigal: like.... "space projecting space into space" that could be drawing, photo, chart, etc
    Bruce Mowbray also listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: whatever someone would want to share
    Eliza Madrigal: it wouldn't need a session, just post on wiki
    Eden Haiku: sounds interesting
    Bleu Oleander: and posted in the art gallery?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, if wanted Bleu
    Riddle Sideways: ART ??????? wha da, did not sign up for ART projects
    Mickorod Renard: sounds fun
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Bleu Oleander: would be nice to show there
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ooops. 1300 = 4 p.m. Eastern Time (USA) Sorry.
    Eliza Madrigal: not a big deal, but maybe for some helpful and nice to switch gears a little
    Mickorod Renard: np Bruce ty
    Eliza Madrigal: any time in next 3 weeks?
    Bruce Mowbray: kk....
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bleu Oleander: in addition to, not in lieu of
    Eliza Madrigal: right
    Catrinamonblue Resident: will try :)
    Eden Haiku: when we are lost for words, drawings can take the relay
    Eliza Madrigal: any concept maybe?
    Riddle Sideways: will try
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm, this will be a mind-expander, for sure. . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)))
    Bleu Oleander: "visualizing space"


    Mickorod Renard: Thank you everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: I have no ideas at all but this is an amazing group and I'm so curious
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, thank you one and all.
    Eliza Madrigal: THANKS
    Riddle Sideways: thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: >whew< sips tea
    Wol Euler: thanks everyone
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
    Eden Haiku: Yes, thanks to you all and to Eliza :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good people.
    Agatha Macbeth: Time to scrape?
    Wol Euler: goodnight and happy scraping
    Catrinamonblue Resident: Yes big thanks Eliza :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Time to scrape, indeed.
    Bleu Oleander: thanks all
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay
    Eliza Madrigal: bye for now lovely ones who must away
    Agatha Macbeth: Love to the squirrels
    Wol Euler: I fell asleep on my bed while re-reading before coming here, so I too am away
    Wol Euler: <3
    Eliza Madrigal has chef tonight so not in a hurry
    Eliza Madrigal: aw, rest well Wol
    Catrinamonblue Resident: :) bye Wol
    Eden Haiku: Sweet dreams Wol :)
    Agatha Macbeth: TC
    Mickorod Renard: bye Wol
    Wol Euler: thanks and the same to you al
    Wol Euler: l
    Agatha Macbeth: Try not to crash while dreaming
    Catrinamonblue Resident: I am chef tonight so should go :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks Cat, bfn
    Bleu Oleander: I am chef too :)
    Catrinamonblue Resident: bye all :)
    Agatha Macbeth ponders Cat food
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Mickorod Renard: bye Cat
    Riddle Sideways: so Aggers boots stay out of water and Bleu's Uggs are soaked
    Eden Haiku: Bye Catrina, and thank you so much!
    Mickorod Renard: bye Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: Ugg
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Bleu :) bon appetit
    Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: cat food, oh my lol
    Bleu Oleander: must be off ... bye all
    Riddle Sideways: by All
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Riddle Hugs
    Agatha Macbeth waves to Bleuji
    Eden Haiku: Bye Riddle
    Agatha Macbeth: And Rid
    Mickorod Renard: bye riddle


    Mick's Trip!


    Eliza Madrigal: Mick, want to tell us more about trip now? :)
    Eden Haiku: yes, please :)
    Mickorod Renard: I could do..but it wasnt that exciting
    Riddle Sideways: hold it, Mick is telling stories?
    Eliza Madrigal notices Riddle hesitate...
    Mickorod Renard: I was on a ship
    Riddle Sideways: luvs stories
    Eden Haiku: Sit down Riddle :)
    Mickorod Renard: picked it up in Barbados
    Riddle Sideways: pirate ship
    Mickorod Renard: and then went around a few islands..doing some beach stuff
    Mickorod Renard: yeh saw a sort of one,,a 5 mast job
    Eden Haiku: Oh, scary pirate ship?
    Eliza Madrigal: can we share photo in log?
    Mickorod Renard: we had to skip first island cos the captain couldnt get in due to wind
    Agatha Macbeth: What had he been eating?
    Eliza Madrigal rolls eyes
    Riddle Sideways: giggles

    Mickorod Renard: I do have a nice pic but its on my phone
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay

    Mickorod Renard: anywayz,,we then went off to Devils island
    Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    Riddle Sideways: oooo
    Agatha Macbeth: Is Dreyfuss still there?
    Mickorod Renard: thats where my poor ol GGgranddad perished
    Eden Haiku: Maybe you can add the picture to the log later Mick?
    Eliza Madrigal: ohhh
    Mickorod Renard: could do
    Mickorod Renard: yeh, it was poignant for me
    Eden Haiku: Really?
    Agatha Macbeth: It would be
    Eliza Madrigal: what a profound reconnection
    Mickorod Renard: yes, the Frenchies sent him theere for being a rebel
    Eden Haiku: oh....so a kind of personal pilgrimage?
    Mickorod Renard: after he died they made him a martyr
    Agatha Macbeth: What year was that?
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Riddle Sideways: to devils island
    Mickorod Renard: cant remember but around 1860
    Agatha Macbeth: Good lord
    Riddle Sideways: pilgramage to devils island does not sound good
    Mickorod Renard: his cousin who went with him escaped
    Eden Haiku: Apologies to you and your GrandDad in the name of the Frenchies....
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: aw :)
    Mickorod Renard: but in truth he may have been at another penal colony nearby
    Eliza Madrigal hugs Eden
    Agatha Macbeth: Sacré bleu
    Mickorod Renard: its very close to venezuella..or however you spell it
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Eden Haiku: What rebellion was it Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: eventually we headed down the amazon
    Mickorod Renard: it was called a peasants revolt..or an inssurection
    Mickorod Renard: there were many,,this was I believe due to schools and colleges
    Eden Haiku: Thanks. He lived there then? So you continued to the Amazon?
    Mickorod Renard: yes, the family were French then

    Eden Haiku: Ah yes, you do have French blood, I recall that now. Were they Cajuns?
    Mickorod Renard: The amazon is a huge river in so much as although our ship isnt big by todays super ships
    Riddle Sideways: 5 masts is big
    Agatha Macbeth: Arr
    Mickorod Renard: we were still a big ship and we went 500 miles up it
    Eliza Madrigal: that's significant
    Riddle Sideways: swabbing the decks all the way?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: it wasnt intrepid, I observed from the upper deck sipping champagne
    Eliza Madrigal: yo ho yo ho
    Riddle Sideways: tough go of it
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eden Haiku: True French blood!
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal and toasts

    Mickorod Renard: when we got to santerem
    Riddle Sideways: dun dun dun
    Mickorod Renard: we got onto a small boat and went in search of wild animals
    Eliza Madrigal: @@
    Mickorod Renard: we saw sloths
    Riddle Sideways: cute
    Eliza Madrigal: oooh my favorite
    Eden Haiku: fun!
    Mickorod Renard: various weird birds

    Mickorod Renard: and the river was alive with Pirahna
    Eden Haiku: ouch!
    Riddle Sideways: oh dear
    Mickorod Renard: I caught one just dangling some meat in on a string
    Agatha Macbeth: You didn't go for a swim I take it?
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Mickorod Renard: no,,but there were lots of local fellas standing knee deep in it fishing
    Eliza Madrigal is glad Mick made it back
    Agatha Macbeth: Blimey
    Eliza Madrigal: with his knees, too
    Eden Haiku: Me too :)
    Riddle Sideways: locals don't taste as good as frenchies

    Mickorod Renard: anyway..we could have had a walk in the jungle but we heard it was boring
    Eliza Madrigal: a boring walk in the jungle of the Amazon @@
    Mickorod Renard: so decided to get drunk instead
    Riddle Sideways: good move, matey
    Eliza Madrigal: like a true pirate
    Eden Haiku: On champagne?
    Riddle Sideways: bottle of rum
    Mickorod Renard: and do some dancing and karaoke
    Riddle Sideways: arrrr, not da dreaded Karaoke
    Eliza Madrigal: haha really?
    Eden Haiku: Karaoke on the Amazon, amazing!
    Mickorod Renard: Then we ripped off and went to Trinidad
    Eliza Madrigal: curry!
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm
    Eden Haiku: This is so funny...
    Mickorod Renard: yeh, I wanted to do the fire starter song by prodigy
    Mickorod Renard: but thye said it was too abusive for the other people on the ship
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Eden Haiku: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: it sounds fun to travel with Mick
    Eden Haiku: it does!
    Riddle Sideways: ok, next time we are all going with ya

    Mickorod Renard: anyway,,we did some more islands,,like st lucia and grenada and stuff
    Eden Haiku: We want the song at the party!
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Mickorod Renard: it was great time
    Mickorod Renard: and you just reminded me i need another malaria tablet
    Eliza Madrigal: hope you returned rested
    Eden Haiku: Wow! Yes, were coming with you next time, for sure :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, and quite well tanned
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: more malaria tablets for everybody
    Eden Haiku: HOpe you stayed away from Zika Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: yes, its good fun,,some of the other folk were a bit old
    Eliza Madrigal takes them every day anyway
    Agatha Macbeth: Who's Zika?

    Mickorod Renard: but I was just turned 60 while away
    Eliza Madrigal: **********Applause!!**********
    Eliza Madrigal: **********Applause!!**********
    Eden Haiku: She's a dangerous bug biting in South America Agatha
    Mickorod Renard: and 40 year mariage
    Riddle Sideways: mazel tov
    Eden Haiku: Congrats!
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, Congratulations!
    Mickorod Renard: but thats another story
    Eliza Madrigal: part of the same story I think :)
    Riddle Sideways: a boat full of old pirates
    Riddle Sideways: thatz the life
    Eliza Madrigal: while you were away, I saw an article about a "river of boiling water in the Amazon" - such a bizarre and spectacular world - http://www.iflscience.com/environmen...t-and-it-s-not

    Eden Haiku: LOL
    Mickorod Renard: yeh,,but we did park up next to a saga ship and they were real old
    Eden Haiku: still laughing
    Eden Haiku: You are an excellent storyteller Mick:)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes this has been fun
    Eliza Madrigal: appreciate the lingering
    Riddle Sideways: almost missed this
    Eden Haiku: I did too.

    Mickorod Renard: there was something weird tho
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Eden Haiku: What?
    Riddle Sideways listens
    Eliza Madrigal listens to add pressure...lollol (remember Eden)
    Mickorod Renard: the amazon flows enough water in a day the equiv of water used in 7 years in new york
    Mickorod Renard: or something like that
    Eden Haiku: mmm
    Eliza Madrigal: amazing, what a sight it must be
    Riddle Sideways: maybe 14 california years
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Agatha Macbeth: Amazin Amazon
    Eliza Madrigal: LIFE
    Mickorod Renard: yep
    Mickorod Renard: oh and we saw blue dolphins
    Riddle Sideways: aw
    Eliza Madrigal: >gasp<
    Eden Haiku: sighs without knowing why ...just for the pleasure of it I guess


    Great Space Question


    Mickorod Renard: so,,just a quick q if i may
    Eliza Madrigal: k
    Eden Haiku: antcipated the dolphins maybe, wonderful animals!
    Mickorod Renard: I got a bit fixed on trying to become the giant space
    Riddle Sideways: flipper
    Mickorod Renard: is that a step too far?
    Riddle Sideways: giant or Great Space?
    Mickorod Renard: great
    Mickorod Renard: sorry
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm.... my inclination is to say no....
    Eden Haiku: No no, that,s excellent to try it out like that
    Eliza Madrigal: although each of us has thresholds where we become disoriented?
    Eliza Madrigal: I do think it is important to pay attention to your feelings and sensitivities
    Eliza Madrigal: and anything unusual
    Eliza Madrigal: because we can sort of stir up deep emotions or memories

    Eden Haiku: Did you feel disoriented Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I just felt a desire,,and had some feeling of achieving it but not for long,,but effectivly a strange feeling
    Mickorod Renard: yes, almost as if I was not permitted to do so
    Eden Haiku: The exercises are carrying us to deep places for sure...

    Riddle Sideways: there are auto eject-return mechanisms built in to us

    Eden Haiku: You met a space "not allowing " you to go in I suppose Mick...
    Mickorod Renard: anyway..i am still not certain what i should be aiming for
    Eliza Madrigal: if it is captivating for you, to see what the experience is there, I'd just take it slowly and lightly.... get up walk around and come back
    Eliza Madrigal: Say more Riddle?
    Mickorod Renard: I sort of turned inside out and became the space rather than me
    Mickorod Renard: or not so much inside out but exchanged
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that capacity is wonderful and to be played with :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Outside in?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe inside out
    Eden Haiku: agrees with Riddle"s "auto eject-return mechanisms buit in in us"
    Eliza Madrigal: but also that there could be effects elsewhere in life, to watch. Agree with Riddle too...
    Mickorod Renard: but I sensed the detachment of self to a point
    Riddle Sideways: still think the detachment is very good
    Mickorod Renard: this is why I wondered anout objective

    Riddle Sideways: very hard exercise to park your 'self'
    Eden Haiku: LOL
    Riddle Sideways: not having read how the book ends, maybe that will be the objective
    Eliza Madrigal: yet also natural? a relief? seems a lot of energy
    Riddle Sideways: but no spoilers, please
    Agatha Macbeth: The butler didn't do it
    Mickorod Renard: yes, the nde experience was closest to just being something not in body
    Eliza Madrigal giggles wildly
    Agatha Macbeth throws water over Liz
    Eliza Madrigal sputters

    Eden Haiku: It,s a game of CLUE?
    Agatha Macbeth: Mais oui
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder if we will all conclude at the same place,,in thought
    Eden Haiku: A fresh point of view Agatha :)
    Riddle Sideways: it is a very good fresh point of view
    Eliza Madrigal: for me, I think there is a groundedness too.... in the way the exercises are led through
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Riddle Sideways: hope so, Mick. yet there will be 9 diff reports on it
    Eliza Madrigal: so although there are reminders of experiences there is also some kind of depth and stability


    Eden Haiku: has no clue about the objective but trusts the TSK process more and more....
    Riddle Sideways: 2-3 in poetry
    Agatha Macbeth: Why do people have this obsession with being on the ground?
    Eliza Madrigal: that's how I feel too Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: :) no obsession but some of us have a hard time staying there, lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh that's what I mean
    Eden Haiku: holds her hand :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, what is with that, Aggie

    Mickorod Renard: I liked Bruces idea of koans.....maybe the practice will just open up practical ways in normal life
    Eliza Madrigal: :) feeling connected
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay... daughters keep coming in so I'm going to take the hint and go out
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,i must go too
    Eliza Madrigal: nice to be with my family here though
    Eliza Madrigal: <3
    Agatha Macbeth: Tell George to bite them
    Eden Haiku: Thank you so much Eliza, you are a wonderful host!
    Riddle Sideways: hugs
    Mickorod Renard: take care Eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Lizzie ♥
    Eliza Madrigal: we're a nice bunch
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks with all my heart
    Eliza Madrigal: bfn
    Riddle Sideways: by by
    Mickorod Renard: I will disapear,,but will dig out some photos
    Agatha Macbeth: That's it then
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, great!
    Eden Haiku: Bye everyone, enjoyed this last leg of our trip very much too :)
    Riddle Sideways: thanks
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't drink the water mick
    Mickorod Renard: yep..see ya folks,,thanks
    Riddle Sideways: and thanks All
    Eliza Madrigal: me too, will grin for a long time
    Eden Haiku: Yes, please Mick!
    Agatha Macbeth: I love that smoking wigwam

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    Viewing 3 of 3 comments: view all
    At Xirana's Happy Hour this week (Friday - 1100 SLT) we discussed the idea of an "art project" as suggested in this snippit from the above chat:

    Eliza Madrigal: I'm wondering if we want to try an art project over next few weeks
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu mentioned a few weeks ago and maybe now is the right time
    Eliza Madrigal: even if casual
    Bleu Oleander listens
    Eliza Madrigal: like.... "space projecting space into space" that could be drawing, photo, chart, etc
    Bruce Mowbray also listens.
    Eliza Madrigal: whatever someone would want to share
    Eliza Madrigal: it wouldn't need a session, just post on wiki
    Eden Haiku: sounds interesting
    Bleu Oleander: and posted in the art gallery?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, if wanted Bleu

    As I understand it, the paradoxical intention of this [optional, unstructured] "project" would be for individuals to create some freely chosen graphic form (sl texture, jpg, png, machinima, in-world, sculpture, etc.) expressing one's thoughts about and/or experience with any of the themes, exercises, and/or commentaries in TSK's Chapter 2.- e.g., "space projecting space into space." I called it a "paradoxical intention" because I understood Chapter Two's imaging exercises to be taking participants beyond imagery itself (delineation, solid structure, "frozen" labeling and mental constructs, etc.)

    In our Happy Hour chat, I likened that to a self-erasing eraser - (a goal of having no goals?) - which I hope to invent - right after I've invented self-cleaning floors and auto-scraping suppers. Meanwhile, I feel that the "art project" is a FINE challenge, so I'm working on an image (a series of them, actually) that transcends imaging (or at least tries to illustrate that) -- and will post it here in a few days. I hope others will choose their favorite graphics media and take up the challenge, too. -- Bruce
    Posted 16:38, 27 Feb 2016
    Thanks, Bruce! Sounds wonderful. We are going to talk more about this in the guardian session today as well. :)
    Posted 17:49, 27 Feb 2016
    Ponderings: Robert Rauschenberg (artist) and John Cage (musician) were devotees of D.T. Suzuki and gobbled up his lectures on Zen Buddhism at Columbia University (1952) as well as his writings. Then they passionately attempted to represent Zen's emptiness in art ("The White Paintings") and music ( 4' 33" ). Is a painting that is utterly empty of any image, in effect, ANTI-art? Is an utterly silent musical composition, in effect, ANTI-music? After pondering this for a day or two, I realized I have probably been wrong to label the exercises in Chapter 2 "koans" or "meditation methods" - and probably wrong to employ them as such, although doing so has been of great personal value. ["What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is not PRO or ANTI applause.] Are the exercises not just simple "practices" with precise step-by-step instructions? -- Why do I insist that Rauschenberg's all-white (and all-black, too) canvases, Cage's silent performances, and TSK's exercises become "meaningful" by having goals, purposes, and well-delineated finish-lines? Indeed, why expect that Pabbers' contributions to this "project" be either "meaningful" or "artistic"? edited 18:41, 28 Feb 2016
    Posted 18:26, 28 Feb 2016
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