2018.01.01 13:00 - All isn't quiet on New Year's Day

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            The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.


    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ags
    Mickorod Renard: nice twirl
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Mickorod Renard: I see Liz is hanging around
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh thought I saw Liz too
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
    Mickorod Renard: making sure i am not her only company he he
    Agatha Macbeth: Ahh she's editing
    Mickorod Renard: there was only the two of us on Thursday
    Agatha Macbeth: Saw Eden and Adams earlier
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Mickorod Renard: are they well?
    Agatha Macbeth: Seem so
    Mickorod Renard: good
    Agatha Macbeth: Edie is lovely as always and Adams seems to be busy in RL
    Mickorod Renard: Adams had contemplated doing an interview with me once but gave up due to my allusivness I bet
    Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Agatha Macbeth: The elusive Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Liz
    Agatha Macbeth: And here's our girl
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :) My new coat looks all a tatter
    Eliza Madrigal: love your blue, though, Agatha :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Alpha layer?
    Mickorod Renard: lets av a look?
    Eliza Madrigal: oh...yes that's what was needed
    Agatha Macbeth: With mesh they usually give you an alpha with it
    Mickorod Renard: looks ok to me
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you
    Agatha Macbeth: (Or should)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yay
    Eliza Madrigal: would have saved me much body fidgeting
    Mickorod Renard: I went n got some skates but cant open them up
    Eliza Madrigal: you should be able to open them here Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I would of helped zipping u up
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes you would need to adjust shape or use a larger size :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Shame we don't have RL alphas eh
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: spanx
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Agatha Macbeth: Later maybe
    Mickorod Renard: I always thought I was one
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: One what?
    Mickorod Renard: an Alpha
    Agatha Macbeth: Hm
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: thus the motorcycle
    Agatha Macbeth: As opposed to omega?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh right
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: I am the beginning and the end as they say
    Eliza Madrigal: so it looks as though we are not discussing books today ...
    Agatha Macbeth: No?
    Mickorod Renard: a happy end
    Agatha Macbeth: A & E finished then?
    Mickorod Renard: we could do,,I have a report
    Eliza Madrigal: would you like to?
    Eliza Madrigal: no, about half way through I think
    Agatha Macbeth: Fire away Mick
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Mickorod Renard: no,,we are one chapter off the end
    Agatha Macbeth: The penult!
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, it must be the way kindle measures
    Mickorod Renard: the rest of the book is references
    Mickorod Renard: which takes up half
    Eliza Madrigal: I see! Thanks!
    Mickorod Renard: I thought u had something too Eliza?
    Mickorod Renard: I dont want to jump que
    Agatha Macbeth: Que?
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Agatha Macbeth: Per favor
    Mickorod Renard: always up for a favor
    Eliza Madrigal: I may have had something.... but it has flown away since last week
    Agatha Macbeth: Erk
    Eliza Madrigal: foggy head today
    Agatha Macbeth: Maybe George ate it
    Eliza Madrigal: so I'm depending on you to spark memory ^.^
    Mickorod Renard: owww..was gonna ask how u r?
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,will do
    Mickorod Renard: here goes
    Eliza Madrigal: fine :) just went out partying...lol
    Eliza Madrigal listens happily
    Mickorod Renard: but it is generally my rant
    Agatha Macbeth: Rant away
    Mickorod Renard: fumbles in pocket
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Agatha Macbeth wonders what Mick's fumbling with
    Mickorod Renard: I find myself losing momentum with the book, which I have enjoyed and am glad to see through to the end. Interesting to read Voltaire's and Twains jottings amongst others . by the time i got to the end of the paragraph I had had enough and was seriously convinced that the story was not literal(which i was anyway). I am glad Micko is a pseudonym (just) as i wouldn't want to be dragged from? my home and burned at the stake here.
    Eliza Madrigal: @@
    Mickorod Renard: However, I don't think I have fear of that as here in this part of the UK there is little sign of Christianity . Which incidentally reminded me of that other crazy tale 'father Xmas'. I pondered him lots recently as my grandkids straddle the believing and not believing, plunging me into perilous territory. Here I find myself affectionately attached to wanting to believe a ridiculous tale of a seriously old guy on a sleigh towed by deer flying though the sky and then delivering billions of presents around the world by descending down chimneys.
    Agatha Macbeth: Works for me
    Mickorod Renard: Thing I like about the Adam and Eve story is that it has meat on it. A medium for debate and raising arguments about human dilemma. I struggle finding a point to this book, preferring instead a philosophical objective to the deeper undercurrents one might speculate may have been A & E 'origin'al purpose.
    Mickorod Renard: done
    Agatha Macbeth: I wonder if other cultures have an equivalent tale?
    Eliza Madrigal appreciates the way you bring the dilemma to present day
    Mickorod Renard: I think they do,,someone mentioned them
    Mickorod Renard: I find myself more open to something
    Eliza Madrigal: At heart I hear something like, how to keep magic and wonder alive, without conning oneself or the next generation?
    Mickorod Renard: forgivness
    Agatha Macbeth: I know there's a Native American story (Hopi I think) about a man and a woman who lived inside a tree
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I like that idea
    Agatha Macbeth: Think it saved them from a flood
    Mickorod Renard: this is true Eliza,,without it life could be quite sad
    Agatha Macbeth: Funny that, Eden was talking about magic earlier
    Mickorod Renard: thing is,,might A and E be seen as like children,,as in their innocence
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been asking similar questions about the times we are in... what it takes to nurture optimism, to believe in goodness
    Agatha Macbeth: Voting Trump out in four years would be a good start
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: its very easy in times where we are in comfort to feel above certain things
    Agatha Macbeth: I mean we've already got rid of Mugabe
    Eliza Madrigal: need to have energetic optimism to work toward all that
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, Adams still seems fairly depressed about it
    Mickorod Renard: well, sometimes one has to take bold leaps to move on
    Agatha Macbeth: Trump I mean
    Mickorod Renard: regardless of good or bad one rolls the dice
    Mickorod Renard: this I think is where sin is forgiven
    Agatha Macbeth: But is it original? :p
    Mickorod Renard: for we are all in it together,,reaping reward as well as losss
    Agatha Macbeth: Some reap more reward than others
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: this is another issue,,
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Mickorod Renard: and we are all supposedly born equal
    Agatha Macbeth: We are, pretty much, then it all goes downhill afterwards
    Mickorod Renard: even outside that diferent skills are rewarded diferently too
    Eliza Madrigal: but I think I'm coming back to this... that we are looking at a slice of time in which it seems someone(s) with ill motives have a great deal of power. In a larger sense, we are truly in the same boat. Somehow that is what is obscured and needs to be seen again.
    Agatha Macbeth: At least in this day and age some aren't born as disadvantaged as they used to be
    Mickorod Renard: I aggree with you Eliza,,even not knowing what u mean
    Agatha Macbeth: It's a step in the right direction
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think we have to always keep in mind that what we are perceiving is very limited
    Mickorod Renard: but I agree with not being above learning from the past
    Agatha Macbeth: Like the visible spectrum
    Eliza Madrigal: and also have compassion for others' limitations, even if our temporal reaction to them is abhorrence and fear
    Agatha Macbeth: Everyone is limited in some way or other
    Mickorod Renard: this is a wonderful observation,,to back out and see from a higher perspective that also includes broader time line
    Eliza Madrigal: there is the schoolyard bully, and the child with the vulnerability and isolation... yet with time, which one would you rather be/have been?
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Seeing like God'
    Mickorod Renard: nicely put Ags
    Eliza Madrigal: beautifully said
    Agatha Macbeth: Appreciating being, or whatever
    Mickorod Renard: its dificult eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Never did get all that APAGXYZ stuff I'm afraid
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Mickorod Renard: I recall scenes from school,,and wishing ones own kids are strong,,yet also ,,the other
    Eliza Madrigal: I too, wrestle with this every day
    Agatha Macbeth: 'You're coming along' as Supertramp said
    Mickorod Renard: sometimes in school,,its eat or be eaten
    Eliza Madrigal: but honestly, I've been perceived as strong by people who perceived themselves as weak, and it was just that there was so much hidden. I think everything is like that.
    Agatha Macbeth: Kids can be buggers
    Agatha Macbeth: 'She never gets angry' :)
    Mickorod Renard: yeh, some bullies are hiding their insecurities
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I had a friend who used to dress me in her clothes on the way to school, and years later I learned that people perceived me as somesuch... which was so offbase
    Mickorod Renard: I try to explain this to my g daughter
    Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
    Agatha Macbeth: Male or female?
    Mickorod Renard: somesuch?
    Mickorod Renard: not a uk term?
    Eliza Madrigal: some kind of projected stature
    Aphrodite Macbain: Happy New Year!
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New Year, Aph!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Aphie!
    Mickorod Renard: same to u
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: A fresh start...
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling optimistic?
    Agatha Macbeth: We hope
    Mickorod Renard: we are starting with an old start
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Aphrodite Macbain: not an old fart?
    Eliza Madrigal: Btw, an A&E song from last night: "She'll promise you more than the garden of Eden... then she'll carelessly cut you and laugh while you're bleedin... But she'll bring out the best and the worst you can be... Blame it all on yourself cause she's always a woman to me..."
    Mickorod Renard: one more paragraph
    Agatha Macbeth: The waiters are practicing politics...
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Aphrodite Macbain: great lyrics
    Mickorod Renard: thats so true Eliza...he he ..parrys the blows
    Eliza Madrigal: I was doing PaB homework at a concert, see... taking notes :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Kwai Chang
    Aphrodite Macbain: bless you
    Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting read- the last chapter
    Mickorod Renard: I often thought their was so much synchronocity but its just being more obbservent I think
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods quietly
    Agatha Macbeth nods noisily
    Eliza Madrigal quietly pushes Aggers in the pool
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Stevie
    Agatha Macbeth: Nya
    Agatha Macbeth: Steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: happy New Year all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Stevenaia
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie, Happy New Year!
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: a series of whinneys goes round the pool
    Mickorod Renard: we have saved the last chapter until we are here
    stevenaia Michinaga: we dreaming today
    Aphrodite Macbain: no more than usual
    Agatha Macbeth: True
    Eliza Madrigal: dreams tomorrow :)
    Mickorod Renard: always dreaming,,but no steve
    Aphrodite Macbain: we are adam and eving
    Eliza Madrigal likes that
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, okies
    Mickorod Renard: dreaming of what life could be if it wasnt for others,,he he
    Aphrodite Macbain: hell is others
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Pretty lonely probably
    Eliza Madrigal: "no mud no lotus"
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t let me interrupt
    Agatha Macbeth: We won't :p
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Mickorod Renard: MYanar
    Aphrodite Macbain: I was thinking as I read the last chapter that despite the fact that people began questioning the reality of A&E in the 19th century there are still people today that believe they were real people.
    Mickorod Renard: thats a doddgy place
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure there are some,,but not many if questioned seriously
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think there are fundamentalists who still believe the earth was created in a week
    Eliza Madrigal: many
    Mickorod Renard: I hold onto some ideas but more out of convenience,,otherwise one would have to create an alternative
    Aphrodite Macbain: true
    Eliza Madrigal: there is so much I want to say about them, yet my foggy head won't let me articulate more than half a sentence today
    Mickorod Renard: otherwise there would be a blank bit
    Aphrodite Macbain: what were you up to last night Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a difference between finding inspiration in something, value, and I think some people think of that as belief
    Aphrodite Macbain: (I slept in untill 11 AM)
    Eliza Madrigal: I was Aph :) big contrast to being home watching Korean tv last new years, hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds luxurious :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I watched theree episodes of The Crown with friends :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: three
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Learned about recent history... Edward VII etc
    Mickorod Renard: I think that ois poinient Eliza,,and as we get more advanced we are not finding inspiration
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Mickorod Renard: but I think there is still a message in there
    Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose it depends on what we rely on for inspiration
    Eliza Madrigal: seems really important to find that sense of wonder and collective awe
    Aphrodite Macbain: I get inspisred just looking hard at a plant I'm drawing
    Aphrodite Macbain: we dont need to look farther than nature to be inspisred
    Mickorod Renard: recently I was drawn to the perfection of life
    Eliza Madrigal: did any of you see the rocket a few weeks ago? none of us here are on the west coast but for a moment, many people thought for sure aliens had found us
    Aphrodite Macbain: gazing upwards on a clear night is also handy
    Eliza Madrigal: west coast US*
    Mickorod Renard: I saw it fro your link eLIZA
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh no!
    Mickorod Renard: on video


    Eliza Madrigal: I had friends driving to California and they were FB live ing
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry I missed it
    Agatha Macbeth: Rocket?
    Eliza Madrigal: they were asking "WHAT IS GOING ON?"
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Aphrodite Macbain: UFPs return
    Eliza Madrigal: It was a SpaceX launch
    Aphrodite Macbain: UFOs
    Mickorod Renard: looked great
    Eliza Madrigal: amazing spectacle
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Eliza Madrigal: felt like a kid looking at footage of santa's sleigh
    Agatha Macbeth: Will have to check CERN tweets
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Mickorod Renard: there is something attractive about fantacy
    Eliza Madrigal: something necessary
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh it ain't real
    Aphrodite Macbain: yeh it bypasses reality
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Snap
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: well, so I tell my lady friends
    Eliza Madrigal: What about "the perfection of life" Mick?
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't you just tell we have the same birthday sometimes?
    Mickorod Renard: havnt got any now
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,Bruce attracted me to it
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Aggers and the same clan
    Aphrodite Macbain: sort of
    Mickorod Renard: but if it wasnt for all the billions of errors and such by folks slightly linked to us we would not be where we are
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did the Macbains and the Macbeths get along?
    Agatha Macbeth: To err is human
    Mickorod Renard: reality as it is wouldnt be
    Aphrodite Macbain: swerve
    Eliza Madrigal: wabi sabi
    Agatha Macbeth: Och aye
    Aphrodite Macbain: genetic alterations...
    Mickorod Renard: so in some strange way we need to have a more accepting approach to life
    Mickorod Renard: and forgiving,,even though I struggle with that
    Eliza Madrigal: a simultaneously wider and more refined scope
    Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a lovely thought, going into 2018
    Aphrodite Macbain: forgiving for sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: not sure about accepting
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure this is the crux of why Jesus was suggested as the other Adam
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are some things I can't accept
    Eliza Madrigal: It seems about getting one's heart right first
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: yeh, genocide in myanmar
    Eliza Madrigal: then within that context, having discernment
    Aphrodite Macbain: right
    Mickorod Renard: nerve gas in syria
    Aphrodite Macbain: so what are we not accepting? Cruelty? Ignorance?
    Mickorod Renard: starving choldren in exploited 3rd world countries
    Aphrodite Macbain: Genocide
    Mickorod Renard: somehow I have to reconcile it before i snuff it
    Aphrodite Macbain: but to change the way things are...we need to recognize what needs ro change
    Eliza Madrigal: have to see it on many levels, not all of which one can directly effect, but some of which one can
    Agatha Macbeth: Still have time mate
    Aphrodite Macbain: *to
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to stop it,,but it has to be done in my head
    Aphrodite Macbain: first
    Aphrodite Macbain: then action after sober second thoughts?
    Eliza Madrigal: there is the Talmud quote...
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: or maybe Talmud...
    Eliza Madrigal: "Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."
    Aphrodite Macbain: Wow. That's excellent. Thanks Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: this is why i would have pprefered the book to be more phillosophical than ,,whatever it was/is
    Mickorod Renard: wonderful Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's more historical
    Mickorod Renard: yes, put ones own garden in order
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can draw our own philosophies from it
    Eliza Madrigal: It is about meme transmissions
    Eliza Madrigal: sort of about technology
    Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of technology?
    Eliza Madrigal: influence, perception
    Mickorod Renard: AI will be our next challenge
    Eliza Madrigal: pretty timely
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: could we address ai with A and E?
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: in what way?
    Eliza Madrigal: what a questio
    Eliza Madrigal: n
    Mickorod Renard: then AI transgreeees
    Aphrodite Macbain: create an AI A&E?
    Agatha Macbeth: Ai = love in Japanese
    Mickorod Renard: and wipes us out
    Aphrodite Macbain: AiyaiAi
    Agatha Macbeth: Aye
    Mickorod Renard: we program ai to serve us but it eats from the tree
    Agatha Macbeth: Forbidden fruit?
    Mickorod Renard: the story continues
    Eliza Madrigal: we want it to be just there to play with us but what if it wants a life of its own?
    Aphrodite Macbain: AI can tell good from bad?
    Mickorod Renard: could adan and eve?
    Agatha Macbeth: Like the synths in Fallout 4
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good and evil are social constructs
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Mickorod Renard: he he ..
    Mickorod Renard: spookie ideas
    Eliza Madrigal: they are like compass points perhaps
    Aphrodite Macbain: whoever programs AI programs in those constructs
    Agatha Macbeth: The robots' rebellion
    Mickorod Renard: maybe that was what adam and eve were like,,,,if it was a true story
    Aphrodite Macbain: To rebel means that there is a questioning mind
    Aphrodite Macbain: coming to an independent conclusion
    Eliza Madrigal: I can't believe that until a few days ago I'd never linked the word protest to protestant :P
    Aphrodite Macbain: Can AI ever be independent of humans?
    Agatha Macbeth: Bit like Pinocchio
    Agatha Macbeth: Or Frankenstein
    Eliza Madrigal: what if we find that AI is prior to humanity?
    Mickorod Renard: I think they could be Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: howso?
    Mickorod Renard: they will be used to program themselves surely?
    Aphrodite Macbain: AI as prior to humanity? Who would have created AI? God?
    Mickorod Renard: robots making robots too
    Mickorod Renard: we are becoming half way gods already
    Eliza Madrigal: I wasn't thinking of a deity, just different kinds of intelligence that humans may be to self centric to recognize
    Aphrodite Macbain checks her halo in the pool
    Agatha Macbeth: Did it get wet?
    Aphrodite Macbain: it's siggy
    Aphrodite Macbain: and soggy
    Agatha Macbeth: Stardust?
    Mickorod Renard: ok folks,,now quick warning,,i may have baby by next thursday
    Eliza Madrigal: Golden
    Aphrodite Macbain: wow
    Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
    Eliza Madrigal: You don't even look pregnant Mick
    Aphrodite Macbain: cool Mick
    Agatha Macbeth: How did you manage that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: a whole new life
    Eliza Madrigal: but how WONDERFUL :)))
    Aphrodite Macbain: a fresh start
    Mickorod Renard: i carry it weel
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: ^.^
    Agatha Macbeth: Weel weel
    Mickorod Renard: whats them brankson hics or something on the go
    Aphrodite Macbain: There is a barand new baby in my building. 3 days old
    Mickorod Renard: cool
    Agatha Macbeth: Goo goo
    Mickorod Renard: cant stand it personnaly,,poo and noise
    Eliza Madrigal: Mick the sea horse
    Aphrodite Macbain: they are calling it mini until they come up with a proper name
    Eliza Madrigal: aw
    Aphrodite Macbain: poo, noise and happy gurgles
    Eliza Madrigal: wide eyes
    Aphrodite Macbain: hungry mouth
    Agatha Macbeth: Wah wah
    Mickorod Renard: I will get to look after the tthree others
    Eliza Madrigal loves babies, but knows it would be very hard to tend to them at this stage of life
    Aphrodite Macbain: good lung exercise
    Agatha Macbeth: It's ok as long as they're someone else's
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: right
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: should hold out to february but doesnt sound like it
    Aphrodite Macbain: hold out from what?
    Mickorod Renard: deliverance
    Agatha Macbeth: You seem to be a one man population boom Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: not due til February I take it, but carrying heavy
    Aphrodite Macbain: ahh
    Mickorod Renard: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: he told you, he's alpha
    Aphrodite Macbain: poor mum
    Agatha Macbeth: Go forth and multiply
    Mickorod Renard: poor me
    Aphrodite Macbain: eventually...
    Aphrodite Macbain: why cant the mum also take care of it?
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I must go..thanks for today
    Eliza Madrigal: I wish you a lot of joy and patience Mick
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Mick
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Mick
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye baby boomer
    Eliza Madrigal: once the baby is here love will make your worries fly away
    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeee..take care..h ny
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: bye everyone :) Happy New Year <3
    Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
    Agatha Macbeth: TC
    Mickorod Renard: XXX to all
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: See you all soon!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully

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