2019.01.03 13:00 - Harari I - Roadmapping

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    Comparing version 23:04, 3 Jan 2019 by Agatha MacBeth? with version 23:16, 3 Jan 2019 by Agatha MacBeth?.

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza. The comments are by Agatha.

                 

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Agatha Macbeth: Jane Torville
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: me too and the one in Antiquity and a fabulous one in Christmas town
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh cool
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's worth a visit
    Agatha Macbeth: Ta
    Aphrodite Macbain: It takes you through many worlds
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll have a look
    Aphrodite Macbain: Takes about 10 minutes to go through
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Aphrodite Macbain: and you look like a pro
    Agatha Macbeth turns off her AO
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: i Flowy Liza
    Agatha Macbeth: Better?
    Eliza Madrigal: Aha, now you look much better Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh in my viewer I looked fine
    Agatha Macbeth: Weird
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thought maybe you weren't ready to face the new year
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh they all come the same these days
    Eliza Madrigal: (Aph, Agatha looked face down in the cushion to me before)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what did you look like?
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Like I had my head up my butt
    Agatha Macbeth: (Not for the first time)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: It got a bit suffocating
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, looks like I lost something

    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope people come
    Eliza Madrigal: diving for spare change in the cushions
    Eliza Madrigal: Me too, Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Guess we'll see
    Eliza Madrigal: Have a nice holiday?
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie and Tura are on already
    Aphrodite Macbain: peaceful :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: no snow
    Agatha Macbeth: And here she is
    Eliza Madrigal: :) wonderful
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Tu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :) Hope you had a good holiday too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Tura. Happy New Year
    Tura Brezoianu: hi all, HNY
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: cheers to 2019!
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Brucie
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
    Tura Brezoianu: hny Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Agatha Macbeth: Another three weeks for China
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi and Happy New Year, good people.
    Eliza Madrigal: year of the pig/boar
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Aphrodite Macbain: Right- late January this year
    Aphrodite Macbain: pigs are smart
    Agatha Macbeth: Oink
    Eliza Madrigal: hope this will be a smarter year then
    Aphrodite Macbain: for all politicians
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes they'll impeach Trump
    Eliza Madrigal: well, let's see
    Eliza Madrigal not counting chickens
    Aphrodite Macbain: just ducks
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well not many turkeys left...
    Aphrodite Macbain: (Donald)
    Eliza Madrigal: Such a strange time, but I do like the new energy flowing into US politics atm
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- waking up to what makes a democracy work
    Agatha Macbeth: We live in interesting times
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm going to concentrate on supporting that #goals2019
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, what horrible thing did we do in our last lives? :))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How many have the book we're planning to read already?
    Bruce Mowbray: I've read it.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've not had time sadly
    Eliza Madrigal: busy season over, Agatha?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm 2/3 of the way through
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll pick it up as i go along
    Tura Brezoianu: I have the book, have read the first few chapters
    Agatha Macbeth: Much to do
    Eliza Madrigal: okay, great
    --BELL--1.00
    Aphrodite Macbain: I propose that we select certain chapters and focus on them. 21 is a lot.
    Eliza Madrigal: I haven't purchased it yet... wondering whether to get the audio or kindle
    Bruce Mowbray: I can give you a summary of the 21 chapters if you'd care to pick and choose....
    Eliza Madrigal: if he read it himself, it would be a no-brainer. Love his voice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I cant focus on audio books- I forget very quickly
    Bruce Mowbray: or, would that be a "spoiler"?
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that would be helpful Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, here it is: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's not a detective novel
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal clicks
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are some chaapters more relevant to PaB than others
    Agatha Macbeth oils you
    Aphrodite Macbain: Each has it's own "lesson"
    Bruce Mowbray: I agree with Aph.... some more relevant than others.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm ready to go with the intuitions of those who've read/perused/begun
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB is so many things, so I can't tell from the titles
    Aphrodite Macbain: It might be best if everyone has read the same chapter when we discuss it. Otherwise it will be the same people talking
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can recommend some. I'm sure Bruce can too
    Eliza Madrigal: that's true... the topics are so general it would be easy just to discuss those instead of the book
    Aphrodite Macbain: He can be very provocative as well- when he is talking about religions, for instance
    Aphrodite Macbain: In his chapter on Humility
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyone can be provocative when they talk about religion
    Eliza Madrigal: looking forward to that then :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Should we make an outline? I can add it to the wiki for our reference?
    Agatha Macbeth: A roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: mhm :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Okie doke
    Aphrodite Macbain: The Introduction and first chapter for sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe Bruce and I could put our heads together and propose a roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: that would be wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: around 7 weeks?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Would that be OK Bruce?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Every Thursday until the end of February? Starting next week?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but I spent this entire day figuring farm taxes, so my head is pretty sore right now. Maybe we could arrange a better time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: of course
    Bruce Mowbray: I'd suggest at least the Intro and the first chapter, for sure.
    Bruce Mowbray: Just to get us started.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oww
    Eliza Madrigal: I've listened to a few of the interviews he's given since the book came out
    Eliza Madrigal: eep, thanks Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods. Can we say that for next week then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Harari has been in MANY interviews - some of them really excellent.
    Aphrodite Macbain: he's so articulate
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, let's say Intro and Chapter One for next week.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds good
    Aphrodite Macbain: can everyone get the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: The book has also received several BAD reviews.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Most do
    Eliza Madrigal: I saw that... think it is part of why I hesitated
    Aphrodite Macbain: That would be interesting to read
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't please everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (folks who were spoiled by his first two books, I guess.)
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is in light of first books
    Eliza Madrigal: exactly
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
    Aphrodite Macbain: The point is, his ideas are interesting to discuss even if we dont agree with every one of them
    Eliza Madrigal: like, I read "The Book of Dust" last year and had to sadly admit it wasn't as good as expected, but it being Pullman was still better than most books :)
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you have thoughts about it so far, Tura?
    Bruce Mowbray loves Pullman's work.
    Aphrodite Macbain: could you let me know which were the negative reviews?
    Eliza Madrigal: the ones I read were on Amazon
    Aphrodite Macbain admits she doesn't know Pullman's writing
    Agatha Macbeth: Figures
    Aphrodite Macbain: whi Aggers?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Amazon would be a good place to begin looking for bad reviews.
    Bruce Mowbray: "His Dark Materials," Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: "The Golden COmpass"
    Bruce Mowbray: (but that's off subject, sry)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what's that?
    Tura Brezoianu: Harari is a historian by profession, but the book is more like journalism.
    Bruce Mowbray: Pullman.
    Agatha Macbeth: Something to draw golden circles?
    Eliza Madrigal: I took us off subject :) sorry too
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Harari draws from an amazing breadth of knowledge
    Eliza Madrigal: good point Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: He seems to be very widely read
    Aphrodite Macbain: and writes so everyone can understand
    Eliza Madrigal: He is a futurist informed by history, and it seems like this book is an effort to draw a wider net
    Bruce Mowbray: Harari is a wonderful teacher.... I love how he draws metaphoric parallels.
    Aphrodite Macbain: So far, I have no reservations
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking forward to reading with everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (We do have vacancies, aggers.)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does he talk about his meditation practice?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Agatha Macbeth: Vacancies?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what Israel and those of the Jewish fairt think of him. He is critical of both
    Aphrodite Macbain: faith
    Agatha Macbeth ponders a Jewish fart
    Bruce Mowbray: He's quite critical of both Israel and Jewish ideation.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: although he is Israeli
    --BELL--1.15
    Agatha Macbeth: Must ask Steve about that
    Eliza Madrigal: That's one of the hardest things to wonder about, but there is a big difference between being of jewish faith and how one might feel about israel's politics
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hell yeh
    Tura Brezoianu: In his chapter on God, I found myself thinking of a Catholic blogger that I read (although not being a belliever myself), and Harari seemed to have never heard of the concept of God that thoughtful Christians have.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: He critiques Judaism as well- saying it needs a bit more humility in its claims
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a really intriguing comment Tura
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but all of that comes much later in the book.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what he thinks of Thomas Merton
    Agatha Macbeth: The Israeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity
    Aphrodite Macbain: He is more supportive of Christianity than Judaism
    Aphrodite Macbain: humanity or humility Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aggers I mean :?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wot?
    Tura Brezoianu: He also misses the real reason that Jews, and specifially Ashkenazic Jews, are so prominent at the top of the sciences. They're smarter.
    Aphrodite Macbain: "The Isreaeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity."
    Agatha Macbeth: That's what I said
    Aphrodite Macbain: I said humility
    Bruce Mowbray: Humanity and humility, both.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: they kinda go together
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Agatha Macbeth: Well they should
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of Harari's lessons, I think.
    Eliza Madrigal: smarter? by which measure?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- "be humble"
    Aphrodite Macbain: many leaders of different stripes need to be that
    Aphrodite Macbain: the good ol' beginners mind
    Tura Brezoianu: Well, IQ if you like, or just the fact of being so prominent in intellectual professions.
    Bruce Mowbray: It will be good to have this discussion when we can be more focused -- say, on an individual chapter and specific ideas.
    Eliza Madrigal: Really intelligent people still have blind spots. Am sure Harari has his
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sure he has
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see.
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT is also one of his lessons, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, we're already probing the first chapter: Disillusionment.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for that summary Bruce- it's very helpful.
    Eliza Madrigal: bodes well
    Bruce Mowbray: Glad to hear that, Aph.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It helps identify one or two themes from each chapter
    Eliza Madrigal: I listen to Sam Harris a fair bit and am always frustrated by his blind spots... but it is encouraging too, that maybe we're moving beyond idol worship in some ways overall
    Bruce Mowbray: The larger AI knows us better than we know ourselves.... Thus, both disillusionment and humility.
    Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of blind spots Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Bruce Mowbray loves the way Sam Harris thinks.
    Eliza Madrigal: he has a hobby horse around the rampant censorship on campuses...
    Eliza Madrigal: I think he's blown it way out of proportion
    Bruce Mowbray listens and loves at the same time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: and feeds into a narrative that isn't so great
    Aphrodite Macbain: too emotional?
    Bruce Mowbray: Isn;t that also true of Jordan Peterson, Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Funny, I was just thinking of him!
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: since he is generally a balanced and smart figure, he lends credibility to what I think is a false sort of flag
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
    Eliza Madrigal: Not a fan of JP... but, am not knowledgeable to be confident about him :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: This is where it is our responsibility to not accept, holus bolus, everything our teachers tell us
    Eliza Madrigal: I keep avoiding listening to him for some reason
    Bruce Mowbray: He's concerned about Canada's new laws concerning pronouns.
    Aphrodite Macbain: amont other issues
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, and other issues.
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah, okay, that sounds like I'd just be irritated :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Heh heh
    Eliza Madrigal grins

    Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu, HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: sorry to be late ... friends funeral today
    Eliza Madrigal: I know "incels" are his fans and I guess that ties together
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't care for Peterson's arrogance and interrution in dialogues...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, how terrible. Sorry to hear :(
    Bleu Oleander: thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear, Bleu.
    Bleu Oleander: I'll catch up reading the log :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love your electric field Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for making the time to be here
    Bruce Mowbray: We've been trying to get organized for a discussion of Harari's "21 essons for the 21st Century"
    Bleu Oleander: thanks Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Next week we will discuss the Intro and the first chapter.
    Bleu Oleander: ok great
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (Just to bring you up to date.)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Bleuji
    Eliza Madrigal: it will be until end Feb. Aph and Bruce are pulling the outline together
    Bruce Mowbray: errrr, yeah, I guess we are.
    Bleu Oleander: perfect :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Tura Brezoianu: well volunteered Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :) ty.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks didn't mean to volunteer you. Was sharing what I understood. :::tries to look humble:::
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe we can take turns leading the discussions
    Bruce Mowbray: Great idea, Aph.
    --BELL--1.30
    Eliza Madrigal: assign us each a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: we will get together later in the week to plan an outline.
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain: and then assign a chapter a week
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie has a sore head from the IRS
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, APh and I will present an outline for the bok, but next week it's Intro and Chapter One - and I volunteer to lead that discussion.
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does Harari talk about his meditation practice in the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain gives Bruce an aspirin and a cup of tea
    Eliza Madrigal: He meditates around 2 hrs a day
    Bruce Mowbray: In the final chapter.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay
    Aphrodite Macbain: One of the last chapters
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, I needed that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and a shortbread cookie
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander: could use one of those too :)
    Eliza Madrigal looks into Aph's purse for mints
    Bruce Mowbray: I already feel "disillusioned" about the 21st Century.
    Eliza Madrigal: ((((Bleu))))))
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain digs through her pockets and only finds old kleenexes and cat fur
    Eliza Madrigal: things are certainly shaking apart, but there is no verdict on what's to come
    Agatha Macbeth: Yuk
    Bruce Mowbray remembers how the century began. . . .
    Bleu Oleander: well, read Pinker's book :)
    Bruce Mowbray: It's a timely book, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: with fireworks
    Bleu Oleander: different picture
    Aphrodite Macbain: we have a choice about our attitude
    Bleu Oleander: another good book is 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray: ??
    Eliza Madrigal smiles at the fairy sounds
    Bleu Oleander: great book about how the world is
    Eliza Madrigal notes 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "how the world is"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Is that like "truthiness"?
    Bleu Oleander: not how we 'see' it according to him
    Bruce Mowbray: him. . . who?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone read the book Practical Wisdom?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Bruce Mowbray: P
    Aphrodite Macbain: P
    Bleu Oleander: Factfulness author Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks, Bleu.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, I don't think so Aph
    Bleu Oleander: yw :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Who is the author?
    Bleu Oleander: Hans Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Harai's first chapter will also deal with this issue.
    Eliza Madrigal: One of the best books I read about the workings of the world last year was Winners Take All
    Aphrodite Macbain: Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing Schwartz, Barry
    Bruce Mowbray: How many books do we have on the table so far?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Looking forward to reading it
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, I haven't
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like an ethics book?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Just HArari I think Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: just 2 Bruce, this one and The Path
    Aphrodite Macbain: forgot about the Path
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, I was counting Pinker, Rosling and Schwartz.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, that's just discussion today :)
    Bleu Oleander: no I was just mentioning those other books
    Bleu Oleander: as in 'oh by the way'
    Bruce Mowbray loves Bleu's encyclopedic worldview.
    Aphrodite Macbain: They can be added to our ever- lengthening list
    Eliza Madrigal: I can only commit one book at a time but I'm going to do my best to get through this one and The Path
    Bleu Oleander: yes good idea
    Eliza Madrigal: I've read the latter, but I think group discussion will enrich it greatly!
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will decide which chapters of Harari's book to read.
    Bleu Oleander: its possible to be reading too many at once
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chapters would the group like to cover?
    Agatha Macbeth: How many are there?
    Eliza Madrigal: what makes sense I guess... some topics may blend well together?
    Bruce Mowbray: There are 21 in all.
    Eliza Madrigal: and others be more stand alone?
    Agatha Macbeth: 7 x 3 then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: as many Thursdays as there are left until the end of February
    Bruce Mowbray: How amny week do we want to read this book -- two months?
    Bruce Mowbray: kk.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like the religion chapters are going to be fascinating
    Agatha Macbeth: Er how many's that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: We had decided we'd read Harari until the end of February
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter a week'
    Agatha Macbeth: How many Thursdays?
    Bruce Mowbray: 8 weeks - 8 chapters (or more, if some go together)
    Aphrodite Macbain: about 6
    Tura Brezoianu: So that would be about 3 chapters a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: No
    Agatha Macbeth: I thought there are 21
    Aphrodite Macbain: please
    Aphrodite Macbain: One chapter is enough per week
    Bruce Mowbray: We're just selecting out a few of the 21 chapters - not the whole thing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, right
    Eliza Madrigal: brb forgot I'd made tea which like probably luke warm now ;/
    Agatha Macbeth: A précis then...
    Aphrodite Macbain: the most relevant
    Aphrodite Macbain: to PaB
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you having a senior moment like me, Eliza?
    Tura Brezoianu: Ah, ok. Do we have thought on which chapters?
    Agatha Macbeth: Right. Good thinking
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will discuss which and propose them
    Bleu Oleander: sounds good
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Tura: for next week: the INtro and Chapter One.
    Eliza Madrigal: my life is full of senior moments bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: SO IS MINE!!!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will email and connect in SL at some stage this week
    Agatha Macbeth: And she's not even senior yet
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm absent minded without the genius part
    Aphrodite Macbain: eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: But you have talent Liz
    Bruce Mowbray: Too many distractions, I think. A form of ADHD, maybe (for me, anyway.)
    Eliza Madrigal: or, oddities :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Great
    Aphrodite Macbain: If you are prepared to deal with more than one chapter a week, we can look at that too.
    Eliza Madrigal: that's it, Bruce. So much to do and consider
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter every 30 minutes!
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph, but hope not to suggest more than two chapters for any one week.
    Aphrodite Macbain: no
    Agatha Macbeth: One (or two) a week sounds reasonable
    Aphrodite Macbain: no time to discuss then
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, would prefer just one chapter per week.
    Agatha Macbeth: We're not reading cuneiform after all
    Eliza Madrigal: I totally trust you two. I would guess that the ones we don't officially cover will inform the ones we do
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Aggers
    --BELL--1.45
    Bruce Mowbray: ty for that trust.
    Aphrodite Macbain: otherwise we will just skim the surface
    Agatha Macbeth: We trust Brucie! Yay
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: it reads pretty easily
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I may do audio on this one
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can give you UTube references too
    Bruce Mowbray wishes he trusted Brucie more than he does.... (i.e., "disillusionment.")
    Bruce Mowbray: I "did" audio on this one, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: well don't listen to yourself but instead the rest of us Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha, ty!
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh we know best :P
    Aphrodite Macbain: giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: You could also confer with the squirrels
    Bruce Mowbray: Actually, Harari speaks to Brucie's "isolated" situation. . ..
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Good
    Eliza Madrigal: can you say more, or need we wait for official chapter? :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, he feels connected through his isolation -- What a paradox.
    Agatha Macbeth: And will there be a prologue?
    Bruce Mowbray: Nope.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: There is an introduction
    Bleu Oleander: must slip out early ... crazy day and have to work tonight ... bfn ... intro and ch 1 for next week :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: worth reading
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but for the book, not for Brucie or the squirrels.
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji x
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, Bleu. Take good care
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: cya
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye Bleu-ji.
    Aphrodite Macbain: byee

    Eliza Madrigal: You know, I take a lot comfort when people talk about the unreliability and fragility of things
    Eliza Madrigal: somehow that feels more hopeful to me
    Aphrodite Macbain: You are not alone!
    Eliza Madrigal: like we're not all hopelessly tranced
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm, fragility, vulnerability, impermanence.....
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Aph!! hugs
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Gotta go- goint to see the Movie Nothing Like aDame with Judi Dench and other dames
    Eliza Madrigal: oooo
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Thought she was dead
    Eliza Madrigal: gasp
    Aphrodite Macbain: still alive and kicking
    Bruce Mowbray: Judy Dench?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Really
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel sorry for her that she has a tatoo in honor of harvey weinstein on her bottom ....
    Eliza Madrigal: tattoo*
    Agatha Macbeth: How do you know that?
    Bruce Mowbray: OMG.
    Tura Brezoianu: !
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: I know a lot of weird things
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, like me
    Eliza Madrigal: yup!
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Not many people know that'
    Bruce Mowbray: I consider tattoos to be a sort of branding.
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, let me correct myself... it was make up ...
    Eliza Madrigal: but she did have it :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh.
    Bruce Mowbray: Makeup.
    Eliza Madrigal: "In 2011, Dench joked that she had a tattoo dedicated to Weinstein on her buttocks to commemorate him making her a Hollywood star. “It was thanks to Harvey, whose name I have had tattooed on my bum ever since,” Dench quipped while accepting an award from the British Film Institute in London. In a 2014 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the actor said the tattoo was an elaborate joke and was, in fact, applied with makeup."
    Agatha Macbeth: Ohhh
    Bruce Mowbray: (whew!)
    Agatha Macbeth: I know Oliver Reed had one
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought of getting a tattoo recently
    Agatha Macbeth: SL or RL?
    Eliza Madrigal: RL, I have lots in SL :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Tattoos are permanent, so think it through, Eliza.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've never seen them
    Eliza Madrigal: well I'm almost half a century old...
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh, Youth!
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT was ELEPHANTASTIC!
    Bruce Mowbray: _____
    Bruce Mowbray: / 0 \____
    Bruce Mowbray: / _ \__/ \
    Bruce Mowbray: / / \ ____ I \
    Bruce Mowbray: /_/ I I I I
    Bruce Mowbray: I__I I__I
    Bruce Mowbray:
    Agatha Macbeth: Ellie!
    Bruce Mowbray: I should probably be scraping up supper.
    Eliza Madrigal: but I'm considering an auspicious knot on my left inside forearm
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for being here Bruce, what with taxes n all
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will report back.
    Eliza Madrigal: and for collaborating with Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, and Hapy New Year, good people.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, unusually for us we actually came up with a plan
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy 2019 :)
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: ha ha ha
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Agatha Macbeth: In one go yet
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so
    Eliza Madrigal: but we had weeks to muse on it too
    Agatha Macbeth: Right then
    Eliza Madrigal: great to see you
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Tura
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Tu
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Agatha (LOVE your outfit)
    Agatha Macbeth: Had it ages
    Eliza Madrigal: fantastic
    Agatha Macbeth: Better change now it's Jan
    Eliza Madrigal: I never pay attention to seasons in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: :) barely in RL
    Agatha Macbeth: Hence the tree :p
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you installed that?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh Adams put it up
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless her
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night
    Agatha Macbeth: TC x

    Version from 23:04, 3 Jan 2019

    This revision modified by Agatha MacBeth? (Ban)

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza. The comments are by Agatha.

                    

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Agatha Macbeth: Jane Torville
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: me too and the one in Antiquity and a fabulous one in Christmas town
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh cool
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's worth a visit
    Agatha Macbeth: Ta
    Aphrodite Macbain: It takes you through many worlds
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll have a look
    Aphrodite Macbain: Takes about 10 minutes to go through
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Aphrodite Macbain: and you look like a pro
    Agatha Macbeth turns off her AO
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: i Flowy Liza
    Agatha Macbeth: Better?
    Eliza Madrigal: Aha, now you look much better Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh in my viewer I looked fine
    Agatha Macbeth: Weird
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thought maybe you weren't ready to face the new year
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh they all come the same these days
    Eliza Madrigal: (Aph, Agatha looked face down in the cushion to me before)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what did you look like?
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Like I had my head up my butt
    Agatha Macbeth: (Not for the first time)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: It got a bit suffocating
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, looks like I lost something

    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope people come
    Eliza Madrigal: diving for spare change in the cushions
    Eliza Madrigal: Me too, Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Guess we'll see
    Eliza Madrigal: Have a nice holiday?
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie and Tura are on already
    Aphrodite Macbain: peaceful :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: no snow
    Agatha Macbeth: And here she is
    Eliza Madrigal: :) wonderful
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Tu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :) Hope you had a good holiday too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Tura. Happy New Year
    Tura Brezoianu: hi all, HNY
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: cheers to 2019!
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Brucie
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
    Tura Brezoianu: hny Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Agatha Macbeth: Another three weeks for China
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi and Happy New Year, good people.
    Eliza Madrigal: year of the pig/boar
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Aphrodite Macbain: Right- late January this year
    Aphrodite Macbain: pigs are smart
    Agatha Macbeth: Oink
    Eliza Madrigal: hope this will be a smarter year then
    Aphrodite Macbain: for all politicians
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes they'll impeach Trump
    Eliza Madrigal: well, let's see
    Eliza Madrigal not counting chickens
    Aphrodite Macbain: just ducks
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well not many turkeys left...
    Aphrodite Macbain: (Donald)
    Eliza Madrigal: Such a strange time, but I do like the new energy flowing into US politics atm
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- waking up to what makes a democracy work
    Agatha Macbeth: We live in interesting times
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm going to concentrate on supporting that #goals2019
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, what horrible thing did we do in our last lives? :))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How many have the book we're planning to read already?
    Bruce Mowbray: I've read it.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've not had time sadly
    Eliza Madrigal: busy season over, Agatha?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm 2/3 of the way through
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll pick it up as i go along
    Tura Brezoianu: I have the book, have read the first few chapters
    Agatha Macbeth: Much to do
    Eliza Madrigal: okay, great
    --BELL--1.00
    Aphrodite Macbain: I propose that we select certain chapters and focus on them. 21 is a lot.
    Eliza Madrigal: I haven't purchased it yet... wondering whether to get the audio or kindle
    Bruce Mowbray: I can give you a summary of the 21 chapters if you'd care to pick and choose....
    Eliza Madrigal: if he read it himself, it would be a no-brainer. Love his voice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I cant focus on audio books- I forget very quickly
    Bruce Mowbray: or, would that be a "spoiler"?
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that would be helpful Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, here it is: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's not a detective novel
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal clicks
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are some chaapters more relevant to PaB than others
    Agatha Macbeth oils you
    Aphrodite Macbain: Each has it's own "lesson"
    Bruce Mowbray: I agree with Aph.... some more relevant than others.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm ready to go with the intuitions of those who've read/perused/begun
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB is so many things, so I can't tell from the titles
    Aphrodite Macbain: It might be best if everyone has read the same chapter when we discuss it. Otherwise it will be the same people talking
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can recommend some. I'm sure Bruce can too
    Eliza Madrigal: that's true... the topics are so general it would be easy just to discuss those instead of the book
    Aphrodite Macbain: He can be very provocative as well- when he is talking about religions, for instance
    Aphrodite Macbain: In his chapter on Humility
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyone can be provocative when they talk about religion
    Eliza Madrigal: looking forward to that then :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Should we make an outline? I can add it to the wiki for our reference?
    Agatha Macbeth: A roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: mhm :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Okie doke
    Aphrodite Macbain: The Introduction and first chapter for sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe Bruce and I could put our heads together and propose a roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: that would be wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: around 7 weeks?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Would that be OK Bruce?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Every Thursday until the end of February? Starting next week?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but I spent this entire day figuring farm taxes, so my head is pretty sore right now. Maybe we could arrange a better time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: of course
    Bruce Mowbray: I'd suggest at least the Intro and the first chapter, for sure.
    Bruce Mowbray: Just to get us started.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oww
    Eliza Madrigal: I've listened to a few of the interviews he's given since the book came out
    Eliza Madrigal: eep, thanks Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods. Can we say that for next week then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Harari has been in MANY interviews - some of them really excellent.
    Aphrodite Macbain: he's so articulate
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, let's say Intro and Chapter One for next week.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds good
    Aphrodite Macbain: can everyone get the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: The book has also received several BAD reviews.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Most do
    Eliza Madrigal: I saw that... think it is part of why I hesitated
    Aphrodite Macbain: That would be interesting to read
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't please everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (folks who were spoiled by his first two books, I guess.)
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is in light of first books
    Eliza Madrigal: exactly
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
    Aphrodite Macbain: The point is, his ideas are interesting to discuss even if we dont agree with every one of them
    Eliza Madrigal: like, I read "The Book of Dust" last year and had to sadly admit it wasn't as good as expected, but it being Pullman was still better than most books :)
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you have thoughts about it so far, Tura?
    Bruce Mowbray loves Pullman's work.
    Aphrodite Macbain: could you let me know which were the negative reviews?
    Eliza Madrigal: the ones I read were on Amazon
    Aphrodite Macbain admits she doesn't know Pullman's writing
    Agatha Macbeth: Figures
    Aphrodite Macbain: whi Aggers?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Amazon would be a good place to begin looking for bad reviews.
    Bruce Mowbray: "His Dark Materials," Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: "The Golden COmpass"
    Bruce Mowbray: (but that's off subject, sry)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what's that?
    Tura Brezoianu: Harari is a historian by profession, but the book is more like journalism.
    Bruce Mowbray: Pullman.
    Agatha Macbeth: Something to draw golden circles?
    Eliza Madrigal: I took us off subject :) sorry too
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Harari draws from an amazing breadth of knowledge
    Eliza Madrigal: good point Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: He seems to be very widely read
    Aphrodite Macbain: and writes so everyone can understand
    Eliza Madrigal: He is a futurist informed by history, and it seems like this book is an effort to draw a wider net
    Bruce Mowbray: Harari is a wonderful teacher.... I love how he draws metaphoric parallels.
    Aphrodite Macbain: So far, I have no reservations
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking forward to reading with everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (We do have vacancies, aggers.)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does he talk about his meditation practice?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Agatha Macbeth: Vacancies?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what Israel and those of the Jewish fairt think of him. He is critical of both
    Aphrodite Macbain: faith
    Agatha Macbeth ponders a Jewish fart
    Bruce Mowbray: He's quite critical of both Israel and Jewish ideation.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: although he is Israeli
    --BELL--1.15
    Agatha Macbeth: Must ask Steve about that
    Eliza Madrigal: That's one of the hardest things to wonder about, but there is a big difference between being of jewish faith and how one might feel about israel's politics
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hell yeh
    Tura Brezoianu: In his chapter on God, I found myself thinking of a Catholic blogger that I read (although not being a belliever myself), and Harari seemed to have never heard of the concept of God that thoughtful Christians have.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: He critiques Judaism as well- saying it needs a bit more humility in its claims
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a really intriguing comment Tura
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but all of that comes much later in the book.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what he thinks of Thomas Merton
    Agatha Macbeth: The Israeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity
    Aphrodite Macbain: He is more supportive of Christianity than Judaism
    Aphrodite Macbain: humanity or humility Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aggers I mean :?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wot?
    Tura Brezoianu: He also misses the real reason that Jews, and specifially Ashkenazic Jews, are so prominent at the top of the sciences. They're smarter.
    Aphrodite Macbain: "The Isreaeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity."
    Agatha Macbeth: That's what I said
    Aphrodite Macbain: I said humility
    Bruce Mowbray: Humanity and humility, both.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: they kinda go together
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Agatha Macbeth: Well they should
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of Harari's lessons, I think.
    Eliza Madrigal: smarter? by which measure?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- "be humble"
    Aphrodite Macbain: many leaders of different stripes need to be that
    Aphrodite Macbain: the good ol' beginners mind
    Tura Brezoianu: Well, IQ if you like, or just the fact of being so prominent in intellectual professions.
    Bruce Mowbray: It will be good to have this discussion when we can be more focused -- say, on an individual chapter and specific ideas.
    Eliza Madrigal: Really intelligent people still have blind spots. Am sure Harari has his
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sure he has
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see.
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT is also one of his lessons, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, we're already probing the first chapter: Disillusionment.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for that summary Bruce- it's very helpful.
    Eliza Madrigal: bodes well
    Bruce Mowbray: Glad to hear that, Aph.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It helps identify one or two themes from each chapter
    Eliza Madrigal: I listen to Sam Harris a fair bit and am always frustrated by his blind spots... but it is encouraging too, that maybe we're moving beyond idol worship in some ways overall
    Bruce Mowbray: The larger AI knows us better than we know ourselves.... Thus, both disillusionment and humility.
    Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of blind spots Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Bruce Mowbray loves the way Sam Harris thinks.
    Eliza Madrigal: he has a hobby horse around the rampant censorship on campuses...
    Eliza Madrigal: I think he's blown it way out of proportion
    Bruce Mowbray listens and loves at the same time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: and feeds into a narrative that isn't so great
    Aphrodite Macbain: too emotional?
    Bruce Mowbray: Isn;t that also true of Jordan Peterson, Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Funny, I was just thinking of him!
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: since he is generally a balanced and smart figure, he lends credibility to what I think is a false sort of flag
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
    Eliza Madrigal: Not a fan of JP... but, am not knowledgeable to be confident about him :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: This is where it is our responsibility to not accept, holus bolus, everything our teachers tell us
    Eliza Madrigal: I keep avoiding listening to him for some reason
    Bruce Mowbray: He's concerned about Canada's new laws concerning pronouns.
    Aphrodite Macbain: amont other issues
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, and other issues.
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah, okay, that sounds like I'd just be irritated :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Heh heh
    Eliza Madrigal grins

    Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu, HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: sorry to be late ... friends funeral today
    Eliza Madrigal: I know "incels" are his fans and I guess that ties together
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't care for Peterson's arrogance and interrution in dialogues...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, how terrible. Sorry to hear :(
    Bleu Oleander: thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear, Bleu.
    Bleu Oleander: I'll catch up reading the log :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love your electric field Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for making the time to be here
    Bruce Mowbray: We've been trying to get organized for a discussion of Harari's "21 essons for the 21st Century"
    Bleu Oleander: thanks Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Next week we will discuss the Intro and the first chapter.
    Bleu Oleander: ok great
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (Just to bring you up to date.)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Bleuji
    Eliza Madrigal: it will be until end Feb. Aph and Bruce are pulling the outline together
    Bruce Mowbray: errrr, yeah, I guess we are.
    Bleu Oleander: perfect :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Tura Brezoianu: well volunteered Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :) ty.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks didn't mean to volunteer you. Was sharing what I understood. :::tries to look humble:::
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe we can take turns leading the discussions
    Bruce Mowbray: Great idea, Aph.
    --BELL--1.30
    Eliza Madrigal: assign us each a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: we will get together later in the week to plan an outline.
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain: and then assign a chapter a week
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie has a sore head from the IRS
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, APh and I will present an outline for the bok, but next week it's Intro and Chapter One - and I volunteer to lead that discussion.
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does Harari talk about his meditation practice in the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain gives Bruce an aspirin and a cup of tea
    Eliza Madrigal: He meditates around 2 hrs a day
    Bruce Mowbray: In the final chapter.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay
    Aphrodite Macbain: One of the last chapters
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, I needed that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and a shortbread cookie
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander: could use one of those too :)
    Eliza Madrigal looks into Aph's purse for mints
    Bruce Mowbray: I already feel "disillusioned" about the 21st Century.
    Eliza Madrigal: ((((Bleu))))))
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain digs through her pockets and only finds old kleenexes and cat fur
    Eliza Madrigal: things are certainly shaking apart, but there is no verdict on what's to come
    Agatha Macbeth: Yuk
    Bruce Mowbray remembers how the century began. . . .
    Bleu Oleander: well, read Pinker's book :)
    Bruce Mowbray: It's a timely book, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: with fireworks
    Bleu Oleander: different picture
    Aphrodite Macbain: we have a choice about our attitude
    Bleu Oleander: another good book is 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray: ??
    Eliza Madrigal smiles at the fairy sounds
    Bleu Oleander: great book about how the world is
    Eliza Madrigal notes 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "how the world is"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Is that like "truthiness"?
    Bleu Oleander: not how we 'see' it according to him
    Bruce Mowbray: him. . . who?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone read the book Practical Wisdom?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Bruce Mowbray: P
    Aphrodite Macbain: P
    Bleu Oleander: Factfulness author Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks, Bleu.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, I don't think so Aph
    Bleu Oleander: yw :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Who is the author?
    Bleu Oleander: Hans Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Harai's first chapter will also deal with this issue.
    Eliza Madrigal: One of the best books I read about the workings of the world last year was Winners Take All
    Aphrodite Macbain: Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing Schwartz, Barry
    Bruce Mowbray: How many books do we have on the table so far?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Looking forward to reading it
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, I haven't
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like an ethics book?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Just HArari I think Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: just 2 Bruce, this one and The Path
    Aphrodite Macbain: forgot about the Path
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, I was counting Pinker, Rosling and Schwartz.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, that's just discussion today :)
    Bleu Oleander: no I was just mentioning those other books
    Bleu Oleander: as in 'oh by the way'
    Bruce Mowbray loves Bleu's encyclopedic worldview.
    Aphrodite Macbain: They can be added to our ever- lengthening list
    Eliza Madrigal: I can only commit one book at a time but I'm going to do my best to get through this one and The Path
    Bleu Oleander: yes good idea
    Eliza Madrigal: I've read the latter, but I think group discussion will enrich it greatly!
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will decide which chapters of Harari's book to read.
    Bleu Oleander: its possible to be reading too many at once
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chapters would the group like to cover?
    Agatha Macbeth: How many are there?
    Eliza Madrigal: what makes sense I guess... some topics may blend well together?
    Bruce Mowbray: There are 21 in all.
    Eliza Madrigal: and others be more stand alone?
    Agatha Macbeth: 7 x 3 then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: as many Thursdays as there are left until the end of February
    Bruce Mowbray: How amny week do we want to read this book -- two months?
    Bruce Mowbray: kk.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like the religion chapters are going to be fascinating
    Agatha Macbeth: Er how many's that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: We had decided we'd read Harari until the end of February
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter a week'
    Agatha Macbeth: How many Thursdays?
    Bruce Mowbray: 8 weeks - 8 chapters (or more, if some go together)
    Aphrodite Macbain: about 6
    Tura Brezoianu: So that would be about 3 chapters a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: No
    Agatha Macbeth: I thought there are 21
    Aphrodite Macbain: please
    Aphrodite Macbain: One chapter is enough per week
    Bruce Mowbray: We're just selecting out a few of the 21 chapters - not the whole thing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, right
    Eliza Madrigal: brb forgot I'd made tea which like probably luke warm now ;/
    Agatha Macbeth: A précis then...
    Aphrodite Macbain: the most relevant
    Aphrodite Macbain: to PaB
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you having a senior moment like me, Eliza?
    Tura Brezoianu: Ah, ok. Do we have thought on which chapters?
    Agatha Macbeth: Right. Good thinking
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will discuss which and propose them
    Bleu Oleander: sounds good
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Tura: for next week: the INtro and Chapter One.
    Eliza Madrigal: my life is full of senior moments bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: SO IS MINE!!!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will email and connect in SL at some stage this week
    Agatha Macbeth: And she's not even senior yet
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm absent minded without the genius part
    Aphrodite Macbain: eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: But you have talent Liz
    Bruce Mowbray: Too many distractions, I think. A form of ADHD, maybe (for me, anyway.)
    Eliza Madrigal: or, oddities :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Great
    Aphrodite Macbain: If you are prepared to deal with more than one chapter a week, we can look at that too.
    Eliza Madrigal: that's it, Bruce. So much to do and consider
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter every 30 minutes!
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph, but hope not to suggest more than two chapters for any one week.
    Aphrodite Macbain: no
    Agatha Macbeth: One (or two) a week sounds reasonable
    Aphrodite Macbain: no time to discuss then
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, would prefer just one chapter per week.
    Agatha Macbeth: We're not reading cuneiform after all
    Eliza Madrigal: I totally trust you two. I would guess that the ones we don't officially cover will inform the ones we do
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Aggers
    --BELL--1.45
    Bruce Mowbray: ty for that trust.
    Aphrodite Macbain: otherwise we will just skim the surface
    Agatha Macbeth: We trust Brucie! Yay
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: it reads pretty easily
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I may do audio on this one
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can give you UTube references too
    Bruce Mowbray wishes he trusted Brucie more than he does.... (i.e., "disillusionment.")
    Bruce Mowbray: I "did" audio on this one, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: well don't listen to yourself but instead the rest of us Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha, ty!
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh we know best :P
    Aphrodite Macbain: giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: You could also confer with the squirrels
    Bruce Mowbray: Actually, Harari speaks to Brucie's "isolated" situation. . ..
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Good
    Eliza Madrigal: can you say more, or need we wait for official chapter? :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, he feels connected through his isolation -- What a paradox.
    Agatha Macbeth: And will there be a prologue?
    Bruce Mowbray: Nope.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: There is an introduction
    Bleu Oleander: must slip out early ... crazy day and have to work tonight ... bfn ... intro and ch 1 for next week :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: worth reading
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but for the book, not for Brucie or the squirrels.
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji x
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, Bleu. Take good care
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: cya
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye Bleu-ji.
    Aphrodite Macbain: byee

    Eliza Madrigal: You know, I take a lot comfort when people talk about the unreliability and fragility of things
    Eliza Madrigal: somehow that feels more hopeful to me
    Aphrodite Macbain: You are not alone!
    Eliza Madrigal: like we're not all hopelessly tranced
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm, fragility, vulnerability, impermanence.....
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Aph!! hugs
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Gotta go- goint to see the Movie Nothing Like aDame with Judi Dench and other dames
    Eliza Madrigal: oooo
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Thought she was dead
    Eliza Madrigal: gasp
    Aphrodite Macbain: still alive and kicking
    Bruce Mowbray: Judy Dench?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Really
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel sorry for her that she has a tatoo in honor of harvey weinstein on her bottom ....
    Eliza Madrigal: tattoo*
    Agatha Macbeth: How do you know that?
    Bruce Mowbray: OMG.
    Tura Brezoianu: !
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: I know a lot of weird things
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, like me
    Eliza Madrigal: yup!
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Not many people know that'
    Bruce Mowbray: I consider tattoos to be a sort of branding.
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, let me correct myself... it was make up ...
    Eliza Madrigal: but she did have it :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh.
    Bruce Mowbray: Makeup.
    Eliza Madrigal: "In 2011, Dench joked that she had a tattoo dedicated to Weinstein on her buttocks to commemorate him making her a Hollywood star. “It was thanks to Harvey, whose name I have had tattooed on my bum ever since,” Dench quipped while accepting an award from the British Film Institute in London. In a 2014 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the actor said the tattoo was an elaborate joke and was, in fact, applied with makeup."
    Agatha Macbeth: Ohhh
    Bruce Mowbray: (whew!)
    Agatha Macbeth: I know Oliver Reed had one
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought of getting a tattoo recently
    Agatha Macbeth: SL or RL?
    Eliza Madrigal: RL, I have lots in SL :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Tattoos are permanent, so think it through, Eliza.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've never seen them
    Eliza Madrigal: well I'm almost half a century old...
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh, Youth!
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT was ELEPHANTASTIC!
    Bruce Mowbray: _____
    Bruce Mowbray: / 0 \____
    Bruce Mowbray: / _ \__/ \
    Bruce Mowbray: / / \ ____ I \
    Bruce Mowbray: /_/ I I I I
    Bruce Mowbray: I__I I__I
    Bruce Mowbray:
    Agatha Macbeth: Ellie!
    Bruce Mowbray: I should probably be scraping up supper.
    Eliza Madrigal: but I'm considering an auspicious knot on my left inside forearm
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for being here Bruce, what with taxes n all
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will report back.
    Eliza Madrigal: and for collaborating with Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, and Hapy New Year, good people.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, unusually for us we actually came up with a plan
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy 2019 :)
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: ha ha ha
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Agatha Macbeth: In one go yet
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so
    Eliza Madrigal: but we had weeks to muse on it too
    Agatha Macbeth: Right then
    Eliza Madrigal: great to see you
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Tura
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Tu
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Agatha (LOVE your outfit)
    Agatha Macbeth: Had it ages
    Eliza Madrigal: fantastic
    Agatha Macbeth: Better change now it's Jan
    Eliza Madrigal: I never pay attention to seasons in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: :) barely in RL
    Agatha Macbeth: Hence the tree :p
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you installed that?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh Adams put it up
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless her
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night
    Agatha Macbeth: TC x

    Version as of 23:16, 3 Jan 2019

    This revision modified by Agatha MacBeth? (Ban)

     

    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza. The comments are by Agatha.

                 

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Agatha Macbeth: Jane Torville
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: me too and the one in Antiquity and a fabulous one in Christmas town
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh cool
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's worth a visit
    Agatha Macbeth: Ta
    Aphrodite Macbain: It takes you through many worlds
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll have a look
    Aphrodite Macbain: Takes about 10 minutes to go through
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Aphrodite Macbain: and you look like a pro
    Agatha Macbeth turns off her AO
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: i Flowy Liza
    Agatha Macbeth: Better?
    Eliza Madrigal: Aha, now you look much better Agatha
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh in my viewer I looked fine
    Agatha Macbeth: Weird
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thought maybe you weren't ready to face the new year
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh they all come the same these days
    Eliza Madrigal: (Aph, Agatha looked face down in the cushion to me before)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what did you look like?
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Like I had my head up my butt
    Agatha Macbeth: (Not for the first time)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: It got a bit suffocating
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, looks like I lost something

    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope people come
    Eliza Madrigal: diving for spare change in the cushions
    Eliza Madrigal: Me too, Aph
    Eliza Madrigal: Guess we'll see
    Eliza Madrigal: Have a nice holiday?
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie and Tura are on already
    Aphrodite Macbain: peaceful :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: no snow
    Agatha Macbeth: And here she is
    Eliza Madrigal: :) wonderful
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Tu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :) Hope you had a good holiday too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Tura. Happy New Year
    Tura Brezoianu: hi all, HNY
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: cheers to 2019!
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Brucie
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
    Tura Brezoianu: hny Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Agatha Macbeth: Another three weeks for China
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi and Happy New Year, good people.
    Eliza Madrigal: year of the pig/boar
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Aphrodite Macbain: Right- late January this year
    Aphrodite Macbain: pigs are smart
    Agatha Macbeth: Oink
    Eliza Madrigal: hope this will be a smarter year then
    Aphrodite Macbain: for all politicians
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes they'll impeach Trump
    Eliza Madrigal: well, let's see
    Eliza Madrigal not counting chickens
    Aphrodite Macbain: just ducks
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Well not many turkeys left...
    Aphrodite Macbain: (Donald)
    Eliza Madrigal: Such a strange time, but I do like the new energy flowing into US politics atm
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- waking up to what makes a democracy work
    Agatha Macbeth: We live in interesting times
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm going to concentrate on supporting that #goals2019
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, what horrible thing did we do in our last lives? :))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How many have the book we're planning to read already?
    Bruce Mowbray: I've read it.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've not had time sadly
    Eliza Madrigal: busy season over, Agatha?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm 2/3 of the way through
    Agatha Macbeth: I'll pick it up as i go along
    Tura Brezoianu: I have the book, have read the first few chapters
    Agatha Macbeth: Much to do
    Eliza Madrigal: okay, great
    --BELL--1.00
    Aphrodite Macbain: I propose that we select certain chapters and focus on them. 21 is a lot.
    Eliza Madrigal: I haven't purchased it yet... wondering whether to get the audio or kindle
    Bruce Mowbray: I can give you a summary of the 21 chapters if you'd care to pick and choose....
    Eliza Madrigal: if he read it himself, it would be a no-brainer. Love his voice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I cant focus on audio books- I forget very quickly
    Bruce Mowbray: or, would that be a "spoiler"?
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that would be helpful Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, here it is: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's not a detective novel
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal clicks
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are some chaapters more relevant to PaB than others
    Agatha Macbeth oils you
    Aphrodite Macbain: Each has it's own "lesson"
    Bruce Mowbray: I agree with Aph.... some more relevant than others.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm ready to go with the intuitions of those who've read/perused/begun
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB is so many things, so I can't tell from the titles
    Aphrodite Macbain: It might be best if everyone has read the same chapter when we discuss it. Otherwise it will be the same people talking
    Aphrodite Macbain: I can recommend some. I'm sure Bruce can too
    Eliza Madrigal: that's true... the topics are so general it would be easy just to discuss those instead of the book
    Aphrodite Macbain: He can be very provocative as well- when he is talking about religions, for instance
    Aphrodite Macbain: In his chapter on Humility
    Agatha Macbeth: Anyone can be provocative when they talk about religion
    Eliza Madrigal: looking forward to that then :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Should we make an outline? I can add it to the wiki for our reference?
    Agatha Macbeth: A roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: mhm :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Okie doke
    Aphrodite Macbain: The Introduction and first chapter for sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe Bruce and I could put our heads together and propose a roadmap?
    Eliza Madrigal: that would be wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: around 7 weeks?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Would that be OK Bruce?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Every Thursday until the end of February? Starting next week?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but I spent this entire day figuring farm taxes, so my head is pretty sore right now. Maybe we could arrange a better time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: of course
    Bruce Mowbray: I'd suggest at least the Intro and the first chapter, for sure.
    Bruce Mowbray: Just to get us started.
    Agatha Macbeth: Oww
    Eliza Madrigal: I've listened to a few of the interviews he's given since the book came out
    Eliza Madrigal: eep, thanks Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods. Can we say that for next week then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Harari has been in MANY interviews - some of them really excellent.
    Aphrodite Macbain: he's so articulate
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, let's say Intro and Chapter One for next week.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds good
    Aphrodite Macbain: can everyone get the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: The book has also received several BAD reviews.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Most do
    Eliza Madrigal: I saw that... think it is part of why I hesitated
    Aphrodite Macbain: That would be interesting to read
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't please everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (folks who were spoiled by his first two books, I guess.)
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is in light of first books
    Eliza Madrigal: exactly
    Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
    Aphrodite Macbain: The point is, his ideas are interesting to discuss even if we dont agree with every one of them
    Eliza Madrigal: like, I read "The Book of Dust" last year and had to sadly admit it wasn't as good as expected, but it being Pullman was still better than most books :)
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal: agreed
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you have thoughts about it so far, Tura?
    Bruce Mowbray loves Pullman's work.
    Aphrodite Macbain: could you let me know which were the negative reviews?
    Eliza Madrigal: the ones I read were on Amazon
    Aphrodite Macbain admits she doesn't know Pullman's writing
    Agatha Macbeth: Figures
    Aphrodite Macbain: whi Aggers?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Amazon would be a good place to begin looking for bad reviews.
    Bruce Mowbray: "His Dark Materials," Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: "The Golden COmpass"
    Bruce Mowbray: (but that's off subject, sry)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what's that?
    Tura Brezoianu: Harari is a historian by profession, but the book is more like journalism.
    Bruce Mowbray: Pullman.
    Agatha Macbeth: Something to draw golden circles?
    Eliza Madrigal: I took us off subject :) sorry too
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Harari draws from an amazing breadth of knowledge
    Eliza Madrigal: good point Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: He seems to be very widely read
    Aphrodite Macbain: and writes so everyone can understand
    Eliza Madrigal: He is a futurist informed by history, and it seems like this book is an effort to draw a wider net
    Bruce Mowbray: Harari is a wonderful teacher.... I love how he draws metaphoric parallels.
    Aphrodite Macbain: So far, I have no reservations
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking forward to reading with everyone
    Bruce Mowbray: (We do have vacancies, aggers.)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does he talk about his meditation practice?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Agatha Macbeth: Vacancies?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what Israel and those of the Jewish fairt think of him. He is critical of both
    Aphrodite Macbain: faith
    Agatha Macbeth ponders a Jewish fart
    Bruce Mowbray: He's quite critical of both Israel and Jewish ideation.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: although he is Israeli
    --BELL--1.15
    Agatha Macbeth: Must ask Steve about that
    Eliza Madrigal: That's one of the hardest things to wonder about, but there is a big difference between being of jewish faith and how one might feel about israel's politics
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
    Agatha Macbeth: Hell yeh
    Tura Brezoianu: In his chapter on God, I found myself thinking of a Catholic blogger that I read (although not being a belliever myself), and Harari seemed to have never heard of the concept of God that thoughtful Christians have.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: He critiques Judaism as well- saying it needs a bit more humility in its claims
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a really intriguing comment Tura
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but all of that comes much later in the book.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what he thinks of Thomas Merton
    Agatha Macbeth: The Israeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity
    Aphrodite Macbain: He is more supportive of Christianity than Judaism
    Aphrodite Macbain: humanity or humility Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aggers I mean :?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wot?
    Tura Brezoianu: He also misses the real reason that Jews, and specifially Ashkenazic Jews, are so prominent at the top of the sciences. They're smarter.
    Aphrodite Macbain: "The Isreaeli government could certainly do with a good dose of humanity."
    Agatha Macbeth: That's what I said
    Aphrodite Macbain: I said humility
    Bruce Mowbray: Humanity and humility, both.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: they kinda go together
    Bruce Mowbray: yes.
    Agatha Macbeth: Well they should
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: and that's one of Harari's lessons, I think.
    Eliza Madrigal: smarter? by which measure?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- "be humble"
    Aphrodite Macbain: many leaders of different stripes need to be that
    Aphrodite Macbain: the good ol' beginners mind
    Tura Brezoianu: Well, IQ if you like, or just the fact of being so prominent in intellectual professions.
    Bruce Mowbray: It will be good to have this discussion when we can be more focused -- say, on an individual chapter and specific ideas.
    Eliza Madrigal: Really intelligent people still have blind spots. Am sure Harari has his
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sure he has
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see.
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT is also one of his lessons, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, we're already probing the first chapter: Disillusionment.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for that summary Bruce- it's very helpful.
    Eliza Madrigal: bodes well
    Bruce Mowbray: Glad to hear that, Aph.
    Aphrodite Macbain: It helps identify one or two themes from each chapter
    Eliza Madrigal: I listen to Sam Harris a fair bit and am always frustrated by his blind spots... but it is encouraging too, that maybe we're moving beyond idol worship in some ways overall
    Bruce Mowbray: The larger AI knows us better than we know ourselves.... Thus, both disillusionment and humility.
    Aphrodite Macbain: what kind of blind spots Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Bruce Mowbray loves the way Sam Harris thinks.
    Eliza Madrigal: he has a hobby horse around the rampant censorship on campuses...
    Eliza Madrigal: I think he's blown it way out of proportion
    Bruce Mowbray listens and loves at the same time.
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: and feeds into a narrative that isn't so great
    Aphrodite Macbain: too emotional?
    Bruce Mowbray: Isn;t that also true of Jordan Peterson, Eliza?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Funny, I was just thinking of him!
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: since he is generally a balanced and smart figure, he lends credibility to what I think is a false sort of flag
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
    Eliza Madrigal: Not a fan of JP... but, am not knowledgeable to be confident about him :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: This is where it is our responsibility to not accept, holus bolus, everything our teachers tell us
    Eliza Madrigal: I keep avoiding listening to him for some reason
    Bruce Mowbray: He's concerned about Canada's new laws concerning pronouns.
    Aphrodite Macbain: amont other issues
    Bruce Mowbray: yes, and other issues.
    Eliza Madrigal: yeah, okay, that sounds like I'd just be irritated :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Heh heh
    Eliza Madrigal grins

    Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu, HNY
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: sorry to be late ... friends funeral today
    Eliza Madrigal: I know "incels" are his fans and I guess that ties together
    Bruce Mowbray: I don't care for Peterson's arrogance and interrution in dialogues...
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, how terrible. Sorry to hear :(
    Bleu Oleander: thanks
    Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear, Bleu.
    Bleu Oleander: I'll catch up reading the log :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love your electric field Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks for making the time to be here
    Bruce Mowbray: We've been trying to get organized for a discussion of Harari's "21 essons for the 21st Century"
    Bleu Oleander: thanks Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Next week we will discuss the Intro and the first chapter.
    Bleu Oleander: ok great
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: (Just to bring you up to date.)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Bleuji
    Eliza Madrigal: it will be until end Feb. Aph and Bruce are pulling the outline together
    Bruce Mowbray: errrr, yeah, I guess we are.
    Bleu Oleander: perfect :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: https://medium.com/@SteveGlaveski/book-summary-21-lessons-for-the-21st-century-by-yuval-noah-harari-73722006805a
    Tura Brezoianu: well volunteered Bruce :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :) ty.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks didn't mean to volunteer you. Was sharing what I understood. :::tries to look humble:::
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe we can take turns leading the discussions
    Bruce Mowbray: Great idea, Aph.
    --BELL--1.30
    Eliza Madrigal: assign us each a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: we will get together later in the week to plan an outline.
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain: and then assign a chapter a week
    Agatha Macbeth: Brucie has a sore head from the IRS
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, APh and I will present an outline for the bok, but next week it's Intro and Chapter One - and I volunteer to lead that discussion.
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Does Harari talk about his meditation practice in the book?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, he does.
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain gives Bruce an aspirin and a cup of tea
    Eliza Madrigal: He meditates around 2 hrs a day
    Bruce Mowbray: In the final chapter.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay
    Aphrodite Macbain: One of the last chapters
    Bruce Mowbray: ty, I needed that.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and a shortbread cookie
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bleu Oleander: could use one of those too :)
    Eliza Madrigal looks into Aph's purse for mints
    Bruce Mowbray: I already feel "disillusioned" about the 21st Century.
    Eliza Madrigal: ((((Bleu))))))
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Aphrodite Macbain digs through her pockets and only finds old kleenexes and cat fur
    Eliza Madrigal: things are certainly shaking apart, but there is no verdict on what's to come
    Agatha Macbeth: Yuk
    Bruce Mowbray remembers how the century began. . . .
    Bleu Oleander: well, read Pinker's book :)
    Bruce Mowbray: It's a timely book, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: with fireworks
    Bleu Oleander: different picture
    Aphrodite Macbain: we have a choice about our attitude
    Bleu Oleander: another good book is 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray: ??
    Eliza Madrigal smiles at the fairy sounds
    Bleu Oleander: great book about how the world is
    Eliza Madrigal notes 'factfulness'
    Bruce Mowbray ponders "how the world is"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Is that like "truthiness"?
    Bleu Oleander: not how we 'see' it according to him
    Bruce Mowbray: him. . . who?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone read the book Practical Wisdom?
    Bruce Mowbray: inker?
    Bruce Mowbray: P
    Aphrodite Macbain: P
    Bleu Oleander: Factfulness author Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks, Bleu.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, I don't think so Aph
    Bleu Oleander: yw :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Who is the author?
    Bleu Oleander: Hans Rosling
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Harai's first chapter will also deal with this issue.
    Eliza Madrigal: One of the best books I read about the workings of the world last year was Winners Take All
    Aphrodite Macbain: Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing Schwartz, Barry
    Bruce Mowbray: How many books do we have on the table so far?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Looking forward to reading it
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks, I haven't
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like an ethics book?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Just HArari I think Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: just 2 Bruce, this one and The Path
    Aphrodite Macbain: forgot about the Path
    Bruce Mowbray: kk, I was counting Pinker, Rosling and Schwartz.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, that's just discussion today :)
    Bleu Oleander: no I was just mentioning those other books
    Bleu Oleander: as in 'oh by the way'
    Bruce Mowbray loves Bleu's encyclopedic worldview.
    Aphrodite Macbain: They can be added to our ever- lengthening list
    Eliza Madrigal: I can only commit one book at a time but I'm going to do my best to get through this one and The Path
    Bleu Oleander: yes good idea
    Eliza Madrigal: I've read the latter, but I think group discussion will enrich it greatly!
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will decide which chapters of Harari's book to read.
    Bleu Oleander: its possible to be reading too many at once
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chapters would the group like to cover?
    Agatha Macbeth: How many are there?
    Eliza Madrigal: what makes sense I guess... some topics may blend well together?
    Bruce Mowbray: There are 21 in all.
    Eliza Madrigal: and others be more stand alone?
    Agatha Macbeth: 7 x 3 then?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, for sure.
    Aphrodite Macbain: as many Thursdays as there are left until the end of February
    Bruce Mowbray: How amny week do we want to read this book -- two months?
    Bruce Mowbray: kk.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like the religion chapters are going to be fascinating
    Agatha Macbeth: Er how many's that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: We had decided we'd read Harari until the end of February
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter a week'
    Agatha Macbeth: How many Thursdays?
    Bruce Mowbray: 8 weeks - 8 chapters (or more, if some go together)
    Aphrodite Macbain: about 6
    Tura Brezoianu: So that would be about 3 chapters a week?
    Aphrodite Macbain: No
    Agatha Macbeth: I thought there are 21
    Aphrodite Macbain: please
    Aphrodite Macbain: One chapter is enough per week
    Bruce Mowbray: We're just selecting out a few of the 21 chapters - not the whole thing.
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, right
    Eliza Madrigal: brb forgot I'd made tea which like probably luke warm now ;/
    Agatha Macbeth: A précis then...
    Aphrodite Macbain: the most relevant
    Aphrodite Macbain: to PaB
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you having a senior moment like me, Eliza?
    Tura Brezoianu: Ah, ok. Do we have thought on which chapters?
    Agatha Macbeth: Right. Good thinking
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will discuss which and propose them
    Bleu Oleander: sounds good
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Tura: for next week: the INtro and Chapter One.
    Eliza Madrigal: my life is full of senior moments bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: SO IS MINE!!!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce and I will email and connect in SL at some stage this week
    Agatha Macbeth: And she's not even senior yet
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm absent minded without the genius part
    Aphrodite Macbain: eh?
    Agatha Macbeth: But you have talent Liz
    Bruce Mowbray: Too many distractions, I think. A form of ADHD, maybe (for me, anyway.)
    Eliza Madrigal: or, oddities :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Great
    Aphrodite Macbain: If you are prepared to deal with more than one chapter a week, we can look at that too.
    Eliza Madrigal: that's it, Bruce. So much to do and consider
    Aphrodite Macbain: a chapter every 30 minutes!
    Bruce Mowbray agrees with Aph, but hope not to suggest more than two chapters for any one week.
    Aphrodite Macbain: no
    Agatha Macbeth: One (or two) a week sounds reasonable
    Aphrodite Macbain: no time to discuss then
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, would prefer just one chapter per week.
    Agatha Macbeth: We're not reading cuneiform after all
    Eliza Madrigal: I totally trust you two. I would guess that the ones we don't officially cover will inform the ones we do
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Aggers
    --BELL--1.45
    Bruce Mowbray: ty for that trust.
    Aphrodite Macbain: otherwise we will just skim the surface
    Agatha Macbeth: We trust Brucie! Yay
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: it reads pretty easily
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I may do audio on this one
    Aphrodite Macbain: we can give you UTube references too
    Bruce Mowbray wishes he trusted Brucie more than he does.... (i.e., "disillusionment.")
    Bruce Mowbray: I "did" audio on this one, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: well don't listen to yourself but instead the rest of us Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha, ty!
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeh we know best :P
    Aphrodite Macbain: giggles
    Agatha Macbeth: You could also confer with the squirrels
    Bruce Mowbray: Actually, Harari speaks to Brucie's "isolated" situation. . ..
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Good
    Eliza Madrigal: can you say more, or need we wait for official chapter? :)
    Bruce Mowbray: So, he feels connected through his isolation -- What a paradox.
    Agatha Macbeth: And will there be a prologue?
    Bruce Mowbray: Nope.
    Agatha Macbeth: OK
    Aphrodite Macbain: There is an introduction
    Bleu Oleander: must slip out early ... crazy day and have to work tonight ... bfn ... intro and ch 1 for next week :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: worth reading
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but for the book, not for Brucie or the squirrels.
    Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji x
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, Bleu. Take good care
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: cya
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye Bleu-ji.
    Aphrodite Macbain: byee

    Eliza Madrigal: You know, I take a lot comfort when people talk about the unreliability and fragility of things
    Eliza Madrigal: somehow that feels more hopeful to me
    Aphrodite Macbain: You are not alone!
    Eliza Madrigal: like we're not all hopelessly tranced
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm, fragility, vulnerability, impermanence.....
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Aph!! hugs
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Gotta go- goint to see the Movie Nothing Like aDame with Judi Dench and other dames
    Eliza Madrigal: oooo
    Tura Brezoianu: bye Aph
    Agatha Macbeth: Thought she was dead
    Eliza Madrigal: gasp
    Aphrodite Macbain: still alive and kicking
    Bruce Mowbray: Judy Dench?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Really
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel sorry for her that she has a tatoo in honor of harvey weinstein on her bottom ....
    Eliza Madrigal: tattoo*
    Agatha Macbeth: How do you know that?
    Bruce Mowbray: OMG.
    Tura Brezoianu: !
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: I know a lot of weird things
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, like me
    Eliza Madrigal: yup!
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Not many people know that'
    Bruce Mowbray: I consider tattoos to be a sort of branding.
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, let me correct myself... it was make up ...
    Eliza Madrigal: but she did have it :)
    Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh.
    Bruce Mowbray: Makeup.
    Eliza Madrigal: "In 2011, Dench joked that she had a tattoo dedicated to Weinstein on her buttocks to commemorate him making her a Hollywood star. “It was thanks to Harvey, whose name I have had tattooed on my bum ever since,” Dench quipped while accepting an award from the British Film Institute in London. In a 2014 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the actor said the tattoo was an elaborate joke and was, in fact, applied with makeup."
    Agatha Macbeth: Ohhh
    Bruce Mowbray: (whew!)
    Agatha Macbeth: I know Oliver Reed had one
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought of getting a tattoo recently
    Agatha Macbeth: SL or RL?
    Eliza Madrigal: RL, I have lots in SL :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Tattoos are permanent, so think it through, Eliza.
    Agatha Macbeth: I've never seen them
    Eliza Madrigal: well I'm almost half a century old...
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh, Youth!
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Bruce Mowbray: THAT was ELEPHANTASTIC!
    Bruce Mowbray: _____
    Bruce Mowbray: / 0 \____
    Bruce Mowbray: / _ \__/ \
    Bruce Mowbray: / / \ ____ I \
    Bruce Mowbray: /_/ I I I I
    Bruce Mowbray: I__I I__I
    Bruce Mowbray:
    Agatha Macbeth: Ellie!
    Bruce Mowbray: I should probably be scraping up supper.
    Eliza Madrigal: but I'm considering an auspicious knot on my left inside forearm
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for being here Bruce, what with taxes n all
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph and I will report back.
    Eliza Madrigal: and for collaborating with Aph
    Bruce Mowbray: Be well, and Hapy New Year, good people.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, unusually for us we actually came up with a plan
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy 2019 :)
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: ha ha ha
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Agatha Macbeth: In one go yet
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so
    Eliza Madrigal: but we had weeks to muse on it too
    Agatha Macbeth: Right then
    Eliza Madrigal: great to see you
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Tura
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Tu
    Agatha Macbeth: HNY
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Agatha (LOVE your outfit)
    Agatha Macbeth: Had it ages
    Eliza Madrigal: fantastic
    Agatha Macbeth: Better change now it's Jan
    Eliza Madrigal: I never pay attention to seasons in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: :) barely in RL
    Agatha Macbeth: Hence the tree :p
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: you installed that?
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh Adams put it up
    Agatha Macbeth: Bless her
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night
    Agatha Macbeth: TC x

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